The Royal Forums Coat of Arms

Go Back   The Royal Forums > Reigning Houses > Royal Family of Spain > The Duke and Duchess of Palma de Mallorca and Family

Join The Royal Forums Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
  #501  
Old 08-01-2012, 06:23 AM
Carminha Stalker's Avatar
Royal Highness
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Rio de Janeiro, Brazil
Posts: 1,709
I agree totally with you,SUSAN ALICIA.
The rumors fly around and there are even people who know what the Infanta thinks(!).
What makes me very sceptic is that if Urdangarin is the monster he is supposed to be, why is this dragging on and on and on.Meanwhile, I know there are people who wish they could make the whole Urdangarin family invisible, Cristina divorce her husband and say publicly he is the worst since Nero, her leaving the Royal family and exiling herself somewhere and on and on.
God help these rightful people if they ever are accused of something.
__________________

__________________
Reply With Quote
  #502  
Old 08-01-2012, 06:25 AM
lula's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: , Spain
Posts: 17,058
Infanta Cristina has a public responsibility, is a member of the Royal Family, and has obligations and privileges. Her responsibility was to ensure that her husband is behaving correctly and did not. If your husband was earning millions of euros made ​​easy with his business, the responsibility of the Infanta was ask and know where that money came from.

They should accept that they have done wrong, and act consistently. Infanta Cristina can not hope to live as always, if she wants to continue with her husband has to give up her privileges as a member of the Royal Family. And if she wants to maintain her privileges, she will have to give up her husband.

One thing is the legal responsibility that the judges will determine ... but there is a moral responsibility to the Monarchy and the Spanish people.

Spain is undergoing a profound crisis ... people are unemployed, have economic problems, suffer social cuts...people is very angry... that a person, with all privileges, has been enriched with public money, is totally unforgivable for citizens. Spain needs now a strong monarchy, and not constantly exposed to the lurching of Urdangarín and the Infanta.
__________________

__________________
Reply With Quote
  #503  
Old 08-01-2012, 06:31 AM
susan alicia's Avatar
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: , Netherlands
Posts: 2,528
I suppose it is dragging on because both parties want to get it right, it is important more than ever that in a case like this "justice be done"
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #504  
Old 08-01-2012, 06:45 AM
susan alicia's Avatar
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: , Netherlands
Posts: 2,528
Lula, I agree with your last paragraph with all my heart!

I think we should wait for the court to descide.
If he is found guilty than I agree, as long as they are married she should not receive money from the state and not remain an official member of the royal family. To me the main function of a royal family is to encourage patriotism, they must -as far as humanely possible- do no wrong.
I did think later on that if Christina did not know some people did and they could have stopped it before happening.


Quote:
Originally Posted by lula View Post
Infanta Cristina has a public responsibility, is a member of the Royal Family, and has obligations and privileges. Her responsibility was to ensure that her husband is behaving correctly and did not. If your husband was earning millions of euros made ​​easy with his business, the responsibility of the Infanta was ask and know where that money came from.

They should accept that they have done wrong, and act consistently. Infanta Cristina can not hope to live as always, if she wants to continue with her husband has to give up her privileges as a member of the Royal Family. And if she wants to maintain her privileges, she will have to give up her husband.

One thing is the legal responsibility that the judges will determine ... but there is a moral responsibility to the Monarchy and the Spanish people.

Spain is undergoing a profound crisis ... people are unemployed, have economic problems, suffer social cuts...people is very angry... that a person, with all privileges, has been enriched with public money, is totally unforgivable for citizens. Spain needs now a strong monarchy, and not constantly exposed to the lurching of Urdangarín and the Infanta.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #505  
Old 08-01-2012, 06:52 AM
lula's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: , Spain
Posts: 17,058
Justice is only part of this story, justice will judge the crimes.

But in these cases, there's a moral component ... an exemplary duty, service to citizens, responsibility... and that is judged by the citizens. And you can not vote the Monarchy every four years, so when they act badly, they should know corrected to regain the trust of citizens.

The King's trip to Botswana was a huge mistake... but the first thing he did was to recognize his mistake and apologize to the citizens. And after, recovering from an operation, set to work to help the country.

The problem is that the perception that citizens have of Urdangarín case, is that they do not admit having acted wrongly and that despite being involved in an indictment, privileges remain... and this makes people increasingly angry.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #506  
Old 08-01-2012, 07:08 AM
susan alicia's Avatar
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: , Netherlands
Posts: 2,528
But the moral aspect is clear after the courts have descided, his guilt has to be proven by facts. The privileges have to remain until then. Peception of a situation does not have power, hard facts do.
Is it known who the judge will be and how is he perceived in Spain?
Who is the accuser, what kind of lawfirm represents them in the court?

I do think that he would not be in this situation if he was not gullty but that is just my intuition, my perception of the situation.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #507  
Old 08-01-2012, 07:40 AM
lula's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: , Spain
Posts: 17,058
Susan, I think you do not know the background of the problem, that here is principal.

The accuser is the Public Prosecutor, the case is of economic corruption with public money. Iñaki Urdangarín takes advantage of his position to get million euros contracts with public institutions, politicians pay much money just because he was the son-in-law of the King.That's a proven fact, now the judges will determine if it was legal or not.

If a private employer paid millions and there is a financial scandal is arguable or controversial ... but not so important. If a member of the Royal Family use his influence to enrich with public money, is something wrong, legal or not legal. So the acts of Urdangarín are bad from the beginning, he should never have done business with public money. So morally and in the eyes of citizens, regardless of the legality of his actions, his attitude is not ethical.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #508  
Old 08-01-2012, 07:50 AM
Duke of Marmalade's Avatar
Majesty
TRF Author
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Frankfurt am Main, Germany
Posts: 8,863
Quote:
Originally Posted by susan alicia View Post
If he is found guilty than I agree, as long as they are married she should not receive money from the state and not remain an official member of the royal family.
The only member of the SRF who receives public money is the King, and he distributes. According to the new transparency, Infanta Cristina only receives money when she works for the crown what she hasnt done since the scandal boilt up.

How can she not be an official member of the SRF? Who or what institution would make her give up who she is by birth and law, an Infanta of Spain, and on what basis? I cant see Cristina giving up or being made giving up succession rights on moral grounds = guilt by association.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #509  
Old 08-01-2012, 08:24 AM
lula's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: , Spain
Posts: 17,058
Duke is not just to receive public money or not, are all the privileges associated with membership to the Royal Family. For example, the Spanish state still pays police who protect them in Washington.

Infanta Cristina, if an honest person, should give up her privileges. Could keep the title of Infanta as her aunts, but without official representation or public privileges. Being a member of the Family of the King, but being out of the Royal Family. Would be best for her, her children and the institution. When this passes, I think that's the only option to recover the respect of people and to rebuild their lives.

I really think it was something she should have done, when they went to Washington and have solved many problems. Princess Martha Louise has done it, and now she lives happily dedicated to her angels.

The only problem is that apparently, the issue of resignations is not legally legislated. The Constitution provides for the possibility, but how the process should be, should be developed in a law that has never been done.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #510  
Old 08-01-2012, 08:40 AM
Duke of Marmalade's Avatar
Majesty
TRF Author
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Frankfurt am Main, Germany
Posts: 8,863
Quote:
Originally Posted by lula View Post
I really think it was something she should have done, when they went to Washington and have solved many problems. Princess Martha Louise has done it, and now she lives happily dedicated to her angels.

The only problem is that apparently, the issue of resignations is not legally legislated. The Constitution provides for the possibility, but how the process should be, should be developed in a law that has never been done.

This is what I meant, who will make her give up succession rights and on what basis? Can Cristina just say, I dont want to be an Infanta anymore?

RE Martha Louise, its not quite correct. She still is on fourth position in the line of succession to the Norwegian throne and retains her title as a Norwegian princess (although styled HH and not HRH), still carries out royal duties on behalf of the King, however reduced. So apart from the change in style, she still is very much involved.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #511  
Old 08-01-2012, 09:39 AM
lula's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: , Spain
Posts: 17,058
The problem is that Duke, the law regulating such things does not exist. The resignations in monarchies, and the obligations to resign for certain causes have always existed. She could not resign, but being officially apart of institutional events. Probably every Royal Family has rules about it. The press speculated that Spain is working on it.

Infanta Cristina is still very protected, in Spain there are many cases of corruption in the press lately, and in similar cases, wife or children have had at least to declare. She has failed as Infanta, because she has not prevented her husband act wrong and indirectly she has benefited from that money.

After Urdangarín case, her life in Spain will be complicated. They are now in Barcelona, ​​and only leave the house by car and to other enclosed places.

Although justice does not condemn her, the citizens will demand some responsibility. Only a gesture like that, would allow her regained some respect, that provide a quiet life for her, her children and the Royal Family.

Note that when the Prince becomes King, the infantas Elena and Cristina would no longer have an official role. They would be in the situation infanta Pilar and infanta Margarita are now. Just would forward something that will happen anyway, for the good of all.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #512  
Old 08-01-2012, 01:00 PM
susan alicia's Avatar
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: , Netherlands
Posts: 2,528
I understand, thank you. But do you think anything can be done before trial?

Quote:
Originally Posted by lula View Post
Susan, I think you do not know the background of the problem, that here is principal.

The accuser is the Public Prosecutor, the case is of economic corruption with public money. Iñaki Urdangarín takes advantage of his position to get million euros contracts with public institutions, politicians pay much money just because he was the son-in-law of the King.That's a proven fact, now the judges will determine if it was legal or not.

If a private employer paid millions and there is a financial scandal is arguable or controversial ... but not so important. If a member of the Royal Family use his influence to enrich with public money, is something wrong, legal or not legal. So the acts of Urdangarín are bad from the beginning, he should never have done business with public money. So morally and in the eyes of citizens, regardless of the legality of his actions, his attitude is not ethical.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #513  
Old 08-01-2012, 01:03 PM
susan alicia's Avatar
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: , Netherlands
Posts: 2,528
I did not know that re your first paragraph.

I thought royal families can be made officially smaller, some of them have so many children and grandchildren the responsibility for a government is too big.

But of course she will always remain the daughter of her parents.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade View Post
The only member of the SRF who receives public money is the King, and he distributes. According to the new transparency, Infanta Cristina only receives money when she works for the crown what she hasnt done since the scandal boilt up.

How can she not be an official member of the SRF? Who or what institution would make her give up who she is by birth and law, an Infanta of Spain, and on what basis? I cant see Cristina giving up or being made giving up succession rights on moral grounds = guilt by association.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #514  
Old 08-01-2012, 01:13 PM
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Toronto (ON) & London (UK), Canada
Posts: 5,260
Surely the monarch has the right to decide who is an official working member of the royal family and who is just family, in much the same way as he can regulate titles within the family. At this point I doubt the government would have a problem with the King saying the working royal family will be limited to the King & Queen and the Prince & Princess of Asturias. Even without any changes though it would be best for Christian to keep the lowest possible profile until a judge rules on her husbands legal problems and that may take a long time.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #515  
Old 08-02-2012, 01:57 AM
Courtier
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 875
Well there is a lot of anger in Spain about Iñaki and in particular Cristina, who a lot of people helds responsable for the extravagant lifestyle the couple led in Barcelona.
In case of a conviction people will want them to be persona non grata in Spain and I heard even voices to withdraw then their parental rights ( because of the bad example they set)
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #516  
Old 08-02-2012, 03:00 AM
susan alicia's Avatar
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: , Netherlands
Posts: 2,528
I was wondering how he got this contract at all, perhaps it is normal for topjobs to enclose a clause "if you do not function well" you will receive 4.5 million, but I am surprised.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Princess Peach View Post
That makes sense, I was wondering how he got such a contract with these legal issues pending.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #517  
Old 08-02-2012, 03:57 AM
Duke of Marmalade's Avatar
Majesty
TRF Author
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Frankfurt am Main, Germany
Posts: 8,863
Quote:
Originally Posted by susan alicia View Post
I was wondering how he got this contract at all, perhaps it is normal for topjobs to enclose a clause "if you do not function well" you will receive 4.5 million, but I am surprised.
King Juan Carlos placed Inaki at Telefonica through connections to get him out of Spain when the first glimpse of the looming scandal became apparent for casareal. The King placed him there and Inaki will remain there until the King found a solution to the problem Inaki (or the judge will find a solution).

La celebracin de los duques de Palma en su casa de Pedralbes
The Urdangarin children only stayed for 2 days instead of the planned 7 days in Majorca and returned in order to celebrate Inaki's name day St. Ignatius with close friends & family in Barcelona
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #518  
Old 08-02-2012, 07:28 AM
lula's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: , Spain
Posts: 17,058
Iñaki has abused his position and has made ​​millions of euros of public money dishonestly (and probably illegal). Furthermore, by all accounts known, has done everything possible not to declare the money to the estate. People have every right to be angry, if people like Iñaki have acted honestly, Spain would have money to cover many basic services for people.

Iñaki is not the only involved in this story, original case is not about Inaki, but on corrupt politicians, important political of the party that governs Spain... There are many people involved, his partners and many politicians and government workers. Many people have had to testify about this case ... also the workers of Iñaki, people who worked with his business, at his home...
It's a big investigation, and Inaki is a fish on the big sea.

Iñaki is a member of the Royal Family who has done business with public money, there lies the seriousness of the case. If the problem is with private companies, the scandal would be much less important. Politicians in the same situation have had to abandon their posts, and if they have been guilty had to leave politics.

So in this case, out of doors the obligation of the Royal Family is to remove Iñaki. Decisions taken private as private family are theirs and we do not know them.

Only add, that the Infanta Cristina, is still very protected. If she was not King's daughter and had four children who are indirect victims of the greed of their parents, perhaps the situation would be different.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #519  
Old 08-02-2012, 08:23 AM
Heir Apparent
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Toronto (ON) & London (UK), Canada
Posts: 5,260
Quote:
Originally Posted by susan alicia View Post
I was wondering how he got this contract at all, perhaps it is normal for topjobs to enclose a clause "if you do not function well" you will receive 4.5 million, but I am surprised.
Not sure about Inaki's situation or how it works in Spain, but it is certainly not unusual for senior executives in other countries to have "golden parachutes" written into their contracts. This means that if companies want to remove you they have to pay to do so. Contracts also usually have generous bonuses scales, stock options etc written into them.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #520  
Old 08-02-2012, 08:28 AM
Duke of Marmalade's Avatar
Majesty
TRF Author
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Frankfurt am Main, Germany
Posts: 8,863
Quote:
Originally Posted by NGalitzine View Post
Not sure about Inaki's situation or how it works in Spain, but it is certainly not unusual for senior executives in other countries to have "golden parachutes" written into their contracts. This means that if companies want to remove you they have to pay to do so. Contracts also usually have generous bonuses scales, stock options etc written into them.
This is true but in Inaki's case, considering his qualifications vs benefits, I guess its safe to say that Inaki only got such a job because Juan Carlos asked one of his buddies to "park" Inaki in his company, indirectly funding the lifestyle that comes with being an Infanta or son in law of the Spanish King.
__________________

__________________
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
corruption, iñaki urdangarín, infanta cristina, scandal


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Infanta Cristina, Iñaki Urdangarín & Family, Current Events Part 15: March 2011 - dazzling The Duke and Duchess of Palma de Mallorca and Family 515 10-20-2014 03:43 PM
Cristina and Iñaki: How Did They Meet? Alexandria The Duke and Duchess of Palma de Mallorca and Family 1 04-19-2004 06:37 PM
Is Cristina and Iñaki's marriage in trouble? ellene The Duke and Duchess of Palma de Mallorca and Family 2 11-09-2003 12:28 PM




Popular Tags
belgium brussels carl philip charlene chris o'neill crown prince frederik crown princess mary crown princess mette-marit crown princess victoria current events engagement fashion genealogy germany grand duke henri hohenzollern infanta sofia jordan king carl xvi gustav king felipe king felipe vi king harald king juan carlos king philippe king willem-alexander letizia luxembourg nobility official visit olympics ottoman pieter van vollenhoven poland president hollande president komorowski prince albert prince albert ii prince carl philip prince constantijn prince daniel prince floris prince pieter-christiaan princess aimee princess alexia (2005 -) princess anita princess beatrix princess charlene princess laurentien princess madeleine princess margriet princess marilene princess mary princess mary fashion queen fabiola queen letizia queen mathilde queen maxima queen rania queen silvia queen sofia royal royal fashion russia sofia hellqvist spain state visit sweden the hague wedding winter olympics 2014



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 05:26 AM.

Social Knowledge Networks

eXTReMe Tracker
Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2014
Jelsoft Enterprises

Royal News Delivered to your Email!

You can get the latest Royal News right in your inbox.

unsusbcribe at anytime with one click

Close [X]