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  #1401  
Old 02-13-2014, 03:37 PM
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Plenty {and i mean PLENTY} of posters here are 'Judge & Jury', and have already pronounced judgement... [despite having no access to the documentation, or other detailed knowledge of the case}.

I REPEAT .. the whole bedrock of justice is 'innocent until proven guilty'..
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  #1402  
Old 02-13-2014, 03:38 PM
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you old fashioned thing you!

That's you and me, both!
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  #1403  
Old 02-13-2014, 04:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Winnie View Post
After closely reading everyone's comments on this Royal family, I believe that you have certainly hit on the main problem that has been there all alone but kept under cover--Money, Power and family standing. Quite a few wealthy families along with other Royals have had this same problem but it was never brought to light as this awful scandal has done to the Spanish. King very self centered, spoiled and an adulterer, Queen loves her position and smiles constantly to cover her marriage sham, while the sibling jockeying for position.

Elena seems to have positioned herself now as more self-sufficient with single mother-hood and appears to calmly enjoy her life as daughter of King but not wanting constant limelight. Felipe knows he will be king [?] someday so just limply goes along with the flow to the point that he expects his wife to calmly accept everything written about her [true or false] and never make a fuss in public. Doesn't have the backbone to publically correct or show his outrage as might upset parent. Cristina, even though now we know what she and husband have done, must be in a state of shock that she is made to defend herself. She was always the Kings favorite and the most spoiled by him. She can't conceive not getting her way without any consequences. Queen favored Felipe and King jealous of his looks and the fact that now women covet son before him. Elena always seemed to be slightly in background going through life quietly. Anyway, just my armchair opinion as I don't know them personally although I do know some that do.

As far as the Spanish Royals, the entire fault that this has happened is on the back of Letizia. Once she came into family, the chess game changed its position. If Felipe was a stronger male such as Willem-Alexander, Haakon or Duke Henrik, who all showed full support publically and privately against many a media outcry against their brides, none of this would have happened to Letizia exactly in this way.

This has turned into one of the biggest "soap-operas" of all time. To bad it is not fake and we just can't turn the channel. The poor Spanish citizens are suffering while the Royals are spending millions to get one spoiled child out of trouble.
Excellent observations!
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  #1404  
Old 02-13-2014, 10:43 PM
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Originally Posted by cepe View Post
you old fashioned thing you!

That's you and me, both!
Wyevale and Cepe: Count me in on that, too. I prefer a lawful society; innocent until proven guilty. And the burden of proof rests with the accuser(s).
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  #1405  
Old 02-13-2014, 10:58 PM
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Originally Posted by MissByrd View Post
Wyevale and Cepe: Count me in on that, too. I prefer a lawful society; innocent until proven guilty. And the burden of proof rests with the accuser(s).
There are four of us, dear.
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  #1406  
Old 02-13-2014, 11:40 PM
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[QUOTE=Winnie;1640753]After closely reading everyone's comments on this Royal family, I believe that you have certainly hit on the main problem that has been there all alone but kept under cover--Money, Power and family standing. Quite a few wealthy families along with other Royals have had this same problem but it was never brought to light as this awful scandal has done to the Spanish. King very self centered, spoiled and an adulterer, Queen loves her position and smiles constantly to cover her marriage sham, while the sibling jockeying for position.

Elena seems to have positioned herself now as more self-sufficient with single mother-hood and appears to calmly enjoy her life as daughter of King but not wanting constant limelight. Felipe knows he will be king [?] someday so just limply goes along with the flow to the point that he expects his wife to calmly accept everything written about her [true or false] and never make a fuss in public. Doesn't have the backbone to publically correct or show his outrage as might upset parent. Cristina, even though now we know what she and husband have done, must be in a state of shock that she is made to defend herself. She was always the Kings favorite and the most spoiled by him. She can't conceive not getting her way without any consequences. Queen favored Felipe and King jealous of his looks and the fact that now women covet son before him. Elena always seemed to be slightly in background going through life quietly. Anyway, just my armchair opinion as I don't know them personally although I do know some that do.

As far as the Spanish Royals, the entire fault that this has happened is on the back of Letizia. Once she came into family, the chess game changed its position. If Felipe was a stronger male such as Willem-Alexander, Haakon or Duke Henrik, who all showed full support publically and privately against many a media outcry against their brides, none of this would have happened to Letizia exactly in this way.

QUOTE]
WA and haakon both had fierce, "just try me" mothers for their support as well.
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  #1407  
Old 02-14-2014, 03:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Winnie View Post
After closely reading everyone's comments on this Royal family, I believe that you have certainly hit on the main problem that has been there all alone but kept under cover--Money, Power and family standing. Quite a few wealthy families along with other Royals have had this same problem but it was never brought to light as this awful scandal has done to the Spanish. King very self centered, spoiled and an adulterer, Queen loves her position and smiles constantly to cover her marriage sham, while the sibling jockeying for position.

Elena seems to have positioned herself now as more self-sufficient with single mother-hood and appears to calmly enjoy her life as daughter of King but not wanting constant limelight. Felipe knows he will be king [?] someday so just limply goes along with the flow to the point that he expects his wife to calmly accept everything written about her [true or false] and never make a fuss in public. Doesn't have the backbone to publically correct or show his outrage as might upset parent. Cristina, even though now we know what she and husband have done, must be in a state of shock that she is made to defend herself. She was always the Kings favorite and the most spoiled by him. She can't conceive not getting her way without any consequences. Queen favored Felipe and King jealous of his looks and the fact that now women covet son before him. Elena always seemed to be slightly in background going through life quietly. Anyway, just my armchair opinion as I don't know them personally although I do know some that do.

As far as the Spanish Royals, the entire fault that this has happened is on the back of Letizia. Once she came into family, the chess game changed its position. If Felipe was a stronger male such as Willem-Alexander, Haakon or Duke Henrik, who all showed full support publically and privately against many a media outcry against their brides, none of this would have happened to Letizia exactly in this way.

This has turned into one of the biggest "soap-operas" of all time. To bad it is not fake and we just can't turn the channel. The poor Spanish citizens are suffering while the Royals are spending millions to get one spoiled child out of trouble.
Great post! Cannot agree more
Bye Bine
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  #1408  
Old 02-14-2014, 04:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lula View Post
With Infanta Elena and her family had it easy, also while the Prince was still single. But the arrival of Letizia was a threat.
I still have difficulties to believe that. As I said before, Cristina is not stupid and she knew well that any wife of Felipe would eventually outrank her, yet she showed support in the early stages of the F&L relationship, most likely against her parents' wishes.

Then, when Letizia came into the family, I pretty much doubt that her attitude was 'I want this, I want that', the Queen would not have allowed that anyway, and Letizia would have understood the strategy to learn alongside Felipe instead of demanding a solo agenda straight and take away from Cristina, even more so after the press bashing her for 'let me finish'. She was still struggling to get along in the royal household at the time.

Then she was busy with her pregnancy, got pregant again, then had to deal with her sisters' death ... yet the first photos of a very bad relation between Cristina and Letizia date back to 2006/2007 when Letizia had other things to deal with than encreasment of her own engagements, so I doubt that the reason for the fallout was a power struggle with Cristina over royal engagements.
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  #1409  
Old 02-14-2014, 06:13 AM
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Thankyou, dear people, for your indications of support.
Lately i have hesitated to visit this thread, as the 'lynch-mob' mentality is so depressing..
If i was called to serve on a jury with most of you, it would be a nightmare !

It is reassuring to know that not everyone has jettisoned the most basic tenet of Justice !
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  #1410  
Old 02-14-2014, 06:30 AM
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Well said Wyevale and I agree also your thread 1401.
and well done. Kind regards MO
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  #1411  
Old 02-14-2014, 06:39 AM
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Duke, you have not understood me, I do not think Letizia would fight for something that was not fair to her, just look at how little has been achieved after 10 years. That's what have tried to sell people close to the infantas at Zarzuela.

The salaries that have been released this year do not correspond to the tax data of Infanta Cristina a few years ago. The money of the ladies has not changed, therefore means that in the early years Letizia received much less and Infantas much more (three times what now receives Elena).

I do not think it was so much a matter of money, such as role in the family and the public. Infanta Cristina was the "perfectl" of the family, and that was the role she did not want to lose. Infanta Elena and her family, snobs, not handsome, with Jaime's disease ... was no competition. But Letizia is a magnet for the press, and stole the spotlight that her and her family enjoyed, Cristina never had problems overexpose her children to the press. I think, at the beginning, that is why she always marked distances in family photos. Is there any picture where Cristina shows to have some connection with her nieces?
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  #1412  
Old 02-14-2014, 06:54 AM
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Several of the posts here have veered from the topic in question,we have a seperate thread for relationships within the Royal Family

http://www.theroyalforums.com/forums...ily-13487.html
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  #1413  
Old 02-14-2014, 05:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wyevale View Post
Thankyou, dear people, for your indications of support.
Lately i have hesitated to visit this thread, as the 'lynch-mob' mentality is so depressing..
If i was called to serve on a jury with most of you, it would be a nightmare !

It is reassuring to know that not everyone has jettisoned the most basic tenet of Justice !
Wyevale: I have stopped reading a couple of threads where some of the remarks were unkind and adamant as to point of view. That kind of response tends to stifle conversation. One of the things I have liked about The Royal Forums (in addition to the subject matter) is the politeness of most.
So, I will just say that I would like to see Inaki and Cristina have a fair hearing in these matters. Whether they are likable people or not is irrelevant.
And, I would like it if we could be tolerant of opposing points of view.
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  #1414  
Old 02-17-2014, 10:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wyevale View Post
Plenty {and i mean PLENTY} of posters here are 'Judge & Jury', and have already pronounced judgement... [despite having no access to the documentation, or other detailed knowledge of the case}.

I REPEAT .. the whole bedrock of justice is 'innocent until proven guilty'..
El Pais (the biggest newspaper in Spain) said that the prosecutor wanted to charge Inaki 19 years in prison. How likely is from 19 years in prison to be innocent ? Almost zero chance. No matter what the final verdict is, Inaki and Cristina had used the name of an profit organization to 'steal' millions of public money, they are guilty morally for the general public.
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  #1415  
Old 02-17-2014, 11:06 PM
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Originally Posted by donnaK View Post
El Pais (the biggest newspaper in Spain) said that the prosecutor wanted to charge Inaki 19 years in prison. How likely is from 19 years in prison to be innocent ? Almost zero chance. No matter what the final verdict is, Inaki and Cristina had used the name of an profit organization to 'steal' millions of public money, they are guilty morally for the general public.
I completely agree with you.
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  #1416  
Old 02-18-2014, 04:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade View Post
I still have difficulties to believe that. As I said before, Cristina is not stupid and she knew well that any wife of Felipe would eventually outrank her, yet she showed support in the early stages of the F&L relationship, most likely against her parents' wishes.

Then, when Letizia came into the family, I pretty much doubt that her attitude was 'I want this, I want that', the Queen would not have allowed that anyway, and Letizia would have understood the strategy to learn alongside Felipe instead of demanding a solo agenda straight and take away from Cristina, even more so after the press bashing her for 'let me finish'. She was still struggling to get along in the royal household at the time.

Then she was busy with her pregnancy, got pregant again, then had to deal with her sisters' death ... yet the first photos of a very bad relation between Cristina and Letizia date back to 2006/2007 when Letizia had other things to deal with than encreasment of her own engagements, so I doubt that the reason for the fallout was a power struggle with Cristina over royal engagements.
The four women in the SRF shared the same pool, one was getting more, the others would get less. So it's not hard to image that Cristina's attitude was like 'I want to keep this, I want to keep that'. Even these days, Sofia has the same attitude.

It's also possible Letizia wanted her solo agenda from the very beginning, why not ? The other princess consorts who married at the similar time had their own agenda, their own money, why not her ? Cristina had 3 small children when Felipe married Letizia and a job at the Caixa foundation, the fourth one Irene is only a few months older than Leonor, so pregnancy or children was not relevant to their royal roles IMO.

I think there were definitely two factors that affect the family relation. One was the role division, the other was Inaki's business, possible the two factors interleaved time wise. Cristina had supported Felipe on his marriage to Letizia, Inaki bought the engagement ring, C&I probably expected Felipe to return the favor to support Inaki's business when things got tough inside Zarzuela, but Felipe didn't, he was actually against Inaki's business. Likely Cristina blamed Felipe's attitude on Letizia's influence since she and Felipe used to be very close, she had her younger brother wrapped around her finger.
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  #1417  
Old 02-18-2014, 06:58 AM
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Quote:
El Pais (the biggest newspaper in Spain) said...
Oh well then, it MUST be true !!!

I prefer for the legal process to take its course rather than believe journalists whose sole aim is to sell more copies !
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  #1418  
Old 02-18-2014, 07:19 AM
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José Castro 'no decision' on charging the Infanta Cristina

José Castro asegura no haber tomado 'ninguna decisión' sobre la imputaci&oac | Realeza | Noticias hola.com
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  #1419  
Old 02-18-2014, 10:06 AM
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Please note that I would ask members to leave the deliberation in this case to Judge Castro & his team,thanking you all in advance
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  #1420  
Old 02-20-2014, 10:58 AM
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The Infanta Cristina to the judge: 'I trusted my husband, he suggested it and so I accepted'
La infanta Cristina ante el juez: 'Confiaba en mi marido, él me lo sugirió y así lo acepté'

https://translate.google.com.tr/tran...uez%2F&act=url
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