Iñaki, Cristina and the NOOS Corruption Investigation Part 1 (2011-2014)


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Duke of Marmalade said:
of course fraud and theft is a crime but I think it is out of proportion to send somebody to jail for the same time that people serve for murder, sorry (eg in Germany a life sentence means 15 years).
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I'll bet that when they talk about 15-20 years that would mean consecutive, maximum terms for each charge. I doubt that will happen.
 
Duke of Marmalade said:
of course fraud and theft is a crime but I think it is out of proportion to send somebody to jail for the same time that people serve for murder, sorry (eg in Germany a life sentence means 15 years).
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Thank you for the information. Now when you say in Germany that a life sentence is 15 years, talk about confusion, isn't life just that, life in prison not 15 years. I know here that sometimes for good behavior they can get out early (and most do the same thing all over again) so why not just say that the longest term is 15 years, that sounds so much better to a criminal then saying life. The laws of crime in any country confuse me and sometimes there is much double talk going on.

Thanks DofM for your imput....:)
 
Of course there are ways to keep people with major offences in prison after the 15 years.
Counries are different, but to me 15-20 years in prison for an offence that Inaki is accused of just sounds ridiculous and I am sure the verdict will be very far from that.
 
SElizabeth said:
:previous:I don't understand, isn't fraud and theft something (especially in stealing from a company that has money that is suppose to go to help poor people) to go to jail for in Spain? Maybe I am confusing what the definition of crime is in different countries, here in the US people do go to jail for just that and the severity of the crime I think a judge would decides the length of time...
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Nóos is not "for helping poor people", it was an institution aimed on strategic studies on sponsorship and patronage, encouraging tourism and sports. It all began with the "Palma Arena case", a sports complex in Palma de Mallorca. The responsibles for the erection of sports infrastructures would have been open for bribery: building companies, architects, municipalities, sports organizations wringling in all directions, offering the best possibilities, give personal advantages or money, all to get these profitable orders. It has been proven that the then President of the Balearic Government, Mr Jaume Matas i Palou, was "open" for these deceiving offers and "helped" befriended relations to get orders.

This former President of the Baelaric Government, with a clear and direct link to fraud and corruption, has been convicted for 6 years. The Nóos Institute was an accidental "side catch" of the investigation in the "Palma Arena case". The Public Prosecution thinks that Nóos did send invoices, total 2,3 million Euro, for two congresses which never took place. The assumption is that this money went to the members of the board of Nóos, amongst these Iñaki Urdangarín. He denies all wrongdoing. That is what it is all about.
 
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:previous:My apologizes for misunderstanding what this company and the people that ran this company is and was all about. I misinterpreted everything I had read, so somewhere along the line I thought that this company was to help people, poor or otherwise, it was for the benefit of the people of Spain. If I am wrong in assuming this when why all the fuse about crooked books and misappropriate funds? So just who's money is it, the governments, theirs, the company, funds from whomever that was or has gone missing? I am beginning to think royals need to stay far away from private businesses and not have their name attached to anything that will lead to this kind of trouble or trouble of any type.
 
In essence the Nóos Institute did not misuse Government funds, the accusation is that Nóos (not a private business but a non-profit organization by the way) did send invoices for two congresses which were never held and for the events which were organized, the accusation is that they were way overpriced. The clients of Nóos were usually regional governments, municipalities, regional administrative bodies, semi-governmental institutions, etc. The direct accusation is that the surplus, the profit went to the pockets to 15 persons, under them Iñaki Urdangarín.

The point is that when this is true, Iñaki Urdangarín, married to the sister of the King of Spain, had a profit out of wrongdoing (corruption). In comparison with the tsunami of corruption cases engulfing Spain, this really seems to be a minor case but the fact that Iñaki is in it, seems the proverbial red cloth for the angry bull. Before the crisis Spain had a miraculous economic boom, thanks to EU funds, which translated in immense infrastructural works, modernization, redevelopment. When you visit Spain today, you will be amazed about the absolutely perfect highways, the state-of-the-art high speed trains, the brand new urban developments, the erection of mega windmill energy parks, etc. So many Spanish regional governments, municipalities, institutions, banks, companies, wanted to have their part in this immense never-stopping flow of billions coming into Spain.

You want to build a large urban expansion? In our little rural area? Hm.... I think there will be opposition in the council. And eh... will there be any demand for these sparkling new urban houses, somewhere on the countryside? Hm.... Then suddenly the Mayor, the members of the regional governments, the councillors, the members of semi-public institutions found nice envelopes, free diners in posh restaurants, were welcomed to have a nice holiday with family in a luxe resort somewhere. O wait... tickets for the best places in Estadio Santiago Bernabéu for Real Madrid vs Barcelona? Sure!

This practice has really engulfed Spain (and other countries in similar circumstances as Portugal, Italy and Greece), where enormous funds were coming and everyone wanted to have their share. In all this, the case Nóos is a very minor one but of course the spouse of an Infanta de España is an enormous trophy for media and public. The monarchy, until then standing spotless on a piedestal, thundered down from its revered place: so even the King and his family have dirty hands? That was the gigantic damage, not helped by the deep economic crisis and other escapades of the King himself.
 
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Duc_et_Pair said:
In essence the Nóos Institute did not misuse Government funds, the accusation is that Nóos (not a private business but a non-profit organization by the way) did send invoices for two congresses which were never held and for the events which were organized, the accusation is that they were way overpriced. The clients of Nóos were usually regional governments, municipalities, regional administrative bodies, semi-governmental institutions, etc. The direct accusation is that the surplus, the profit went to the pockets to 15 persons, under them Iñaki Urdangarín.

The point is that when this is true, Iñaki Urdangarín, married to the sister of the King of Spain, had a profit out of wrongdoing (corruption). In comparison with the tsunami of corruption cases engulfing Spain, this really seems to be a minor case but the fact that Iñaki is in it, seems the proverbial red cloth for the angry bull. Before the crisis Spain had a miraculous economic boom, thanks to EU funds, which translated in immense infrastructural works, modernization, redevelopment. When you visit Spain today, you will be amazed about the absolutely perfect highways, the state-of-the-art high speed trains, the brand new urban developments, the erection of mega windmill energy parks, etc. So many Spanish regional governments, municipalities, institutions, banks, companies, wanted to have their part in this immense never-stopping flow of billions coming into Spain.

You want to build a large urban expansion? In our little rural area? Hm.... I think there will be opposition in the council. And eh... will there be any demand for these sparkling new urban houses, somewhere on the countryside? Hm.... Then suddenly the Mayor, the members of the regional governments, the councillors, the members of semi-public institutions found nice envelopes, free diners in posh restaurants, were welcomed to have a nice holiday with family in a luxe resort somewhere. O wait... tickets for the best places in Estadio Santiago Bernabéu for Real Madrid vs Barcelona? Sure!

This practice has really engulfed Spain (and other countries in similar circumstances as Portugal, Italy and Greece), where enormous funds were coming and everyone wanted to have their share. In all this, the case Nóos is a very minor one but of course the spouse of an Infanta de España is an enormous trophy for media and public. The monarchy, until then standing spotless on a piedestal, thundered down from its revered place: so even the King and his family have dirty hands? That was the gigantic damage, not helped by the deep economic crisis and other escapades of the King himself.
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:previous:
First I want to say *Thank You* for informing me and educating me on this situation. I will admit how wrong I was to jump on the band wagon of their wrong doing...and it seems that many others besides the Infanta and her husband have been doing this type of back door dealing, and everything is done as usual in the name of Greed/Money.
I think that all parties involved in this should be held accountable for their part, regardless if you are a member of the royal family or just a mayor in a small town/village or even an ordinary person on the streets, if your proven guilty then you pay the price and be held accountable of your decisions. This is what destroys a country/a family/a town, and an entire community, corruption at it's worst. Even those times change, this type of human behavior will never change as there will always be someone out there wanting more then what they have and doing something illegal to get it, what is the answer? I don't know.........maybe keep finding out the people responsible for the corruption and making them pay the price, their freedom. For me, my freedom is the most important thing in my life, I just don't get people that have so much and still aren't satisfied with what they have........nothing is worth what they are going through at this moment, no amount of money/power/titles/nothing is worth going to jail for.......nothing. And their children surely know at their age what is going on.....that to me is the most criminal act of all.
 
Indeed Duc et Pair is correct that the VAST sums of {other peoples } money, poured into the economies and infrastructure of [relatively backward] regions of the EU, by the Brussels bureaucracy, had a profoundly corrupting effect.
These countries are now paying a very high price [in terms of debt, unemployement and poverty] for this, but also [importantly] in terms of the disillusionment with the system [and the powerful] the resultant corruption has caused...
The people have seen that their masters and politicians are rotten to the core, and the alarming rise in extremist parties [both left and right] is a direct, and frightening result..
 
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When Iñaki Urdangarín is convicted for fraud or corruption, he has to pay the price, like all those other public, semi-public and private persons whom all did their part to profit from the enormous funds. When you look to the immense infrastructural works for the Olympic Games in Barcelona, the World Expo in Seville, the deployment of high speed trains connecting Spain's cities, the upgrading of the highways and parallel to it another (private) highway system in vast Spain, all those brand new modern airports popping up or existing airports suddenly refurbished with fantastic designed new infrastructure, the enormous City of Arts & Sciences in Valencia, the Museo Nacional Centro de Arte Reina Sofía in Madrid, the world-famous Guggenheim Museum in Bilbao, what is not to mention in the unbelievable transformation Spain made in the last two/three decades? I think it is unavoidable that when the Ship With Gold enters the harbor, the who-is-who in Spain became like madmen. When Iñaki did wrong, he did wrong. He was not at all unique in this but then was one of the many, many, many who did. It is difficult to remain 'pure' when everyone around you is profiting.
 
wyevale said:
Indeed Duc et Pair is correct that the VAST sums of {other peoples } money, poured into the economies and infrastructure of [relatively backward] regions of the EU, by the Brussels bureaucracy, had a profoundly corrupting effect.
These countries are now paying a very high price [in terms of debt, unemployement and poverty] for this, but also [importantly] in terms of the disillusionment with the system [and the powerful] the resultant corruption has caused...
The people have their masters and politicians are rotten to the core, and the alarming rise in extremist parties [both left and right] is a direct, and frightening result..
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I find this comment so very close to home, my government over the years has become more and more corruput and so many people are giving up in believing in their government. Given the very poor turn out at this last election says something about America and it is not good. I have lived long enough to see the difference and greed and corruption are fast destroying this country and there isn't a damn thing I can do about it, so I sit and let it happen. Being a history buff, I have come to realize that all kingdoms, empires and world powers all fall down to dust and ashes given the corruput elected officials. I See that the same thing is happening world wide and unfortunately nothing can stop it as it's human nature for some to be greedy.
 
SElizabeth said:
I find this comment so very close to home, my government over the years has become more and more corruput and so many people are giving up in believing in their government. Given the very poor turn out at this last election says something about America and it is not good. I have lived long enough to see the difference and greed and corruption are fast destroying this country and there isn't a damn thing I can do about it, so I sit and let it happen. Being a history buff, I have come to realize that all kingdoms, empires and world powers all fall down to dust and ashes given the corruput elected officials. I See that the same thing is happening world wide and unfortunately nothing can stop it as it's human nature for some to be greedy.
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The same mechanism happened in the DDR, the former East Germany. Recently we celebrated the 25th Anniversary of the Fall of the Berlin Wall. A year later the two German states re-united. The rich West pumped immense amounts of rock-hard Deutsche Marks into the bottomless pit which was the DDR. In the end it is a success story, more and more the old states of Sachsen, Thüringen, Mecklenburg, Brandenburg and Berlin are closing the gap with the states in the west. The enormous amount of money however had an "corruption effect": who gets the orders for the reconstruction of Berlin? Who will build the new infrastructures? Who will get the prestigious orders for the renovation of the historic inner city of Dresden? Who will deliver the new materials, weapon systems, planes, etc. for the two armies unified into one? Who will get the order to deliver the hundreds and hundreds new carriages for the merged German Railways? Who will deliver the 25.000 new police cars to replace the Trabants and the Wartburgs of the East-German police? It is unavoidable that people are "helping" each other, doing each other "a favour", etc.

:whistling:
 
So basically it sounds like its all just speculation...and if it happens it happens and if it doesn't it doesn't. Cristina is behind Felipe, Lenor, Sofia, Elena and her children so at this point it doesn't matter if she does or doesn't.

I don't know what Cristina did or didn't do but I do know that there are plenty of spouses in the United States who sign income tax returns (making them liable for any debts) not knowing the particulars or the specifics of what they are signing. As a result, when they divorce or the primary spouse dies, they are on the hook for any debts/liens.
 
Zonk said:
So basically it sounds like its all just speculation...and if it happens it happens and if it doesn't it doesn't. Cristina is behind Felipe, Lenor, Sofia, Elena and her children so at this point it doesn't matter if she does or doesn't.
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i have to disagree. this is not just about succession. we all know the probability of cristina becoming queen is thin, specially considering there's already 5 people in front of her. i think it would also be about saying sorry and showing at least a minor sign of regret, initially, to her country, which she represented diplomatically, and also to her brother, who is head of state at the moment, and has to pick up the pieces of this.
 
Exactly Carlota. One thing is the court case, that the judges should judge ... but Cristina, as Infanta and member of the Royal Family had a responsibility before the Spaniards... and has failed terribly.

What they did could be illegal or not, but she and her husband did not the right thing. And instead of recognizing at least they have not done well, apologizing for mistakes that have been committed, to make some small waiver of her privileges, her place in the succession or her title of Duchess (it is an absolute disgrace to the city they take that title when they robbed their citizens)... they have acted with absolute arrogance.

That arrogant attitude, that rejection of any guilt, expensive exile in Geneva ... have only contributed to anger citizens.
 
There is no way - no way - she will renounce or give up anything unless she feels the need to throw a Hail Mary pass.
 
carlota said:
i have to disagree. this is not just about succession. we all know the probability of cristina becoming queen is thin, specially considering there's already 5 people in front of her. i think it would also be about saying sorry and showing at least a minor sign of regret, initially, to her country, which she represented diplomatically, and also to her brother, who is head of state at the moment, and has to pick up the pieces of this.
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Sorry for what? The saying of sorry implies acknowledgement of wrongdoing and that is exactly what she is fighting, she and her team deny any wrongdoing and wants to be cleared. For so far Infanta Cristina has a strong position as even the Office of the Public Prosecutor sees no case which can stand a tribunal, much to the chagrin of activists who wants to see the Infanta hang, against any price.
 
Zonk said:
So basically it sounds like its all just speculation...and if it happens it happens and if it doesn't it doesn't. Cristina is behind Felipe, Lenor, Sofia, Elena and her children so at this point it doesn't matter if she does or doesn't.

I don't know what Cristina did or didn't do but I do know that there are plenty of spouses in the United States who sign income tax returns (making them liable for any debts) not knowing the particulars or the specifics of what they are signing. As a result, when they divorce or the primary spouse dies, they are on the hook for any debts/liens.
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Most likely the tax assessments of the Infanta are done by an accountant and not by herself. In some Royal Houses there are special arrangements. For an example in the Netherlands, the King's Treasurer handles the tax assessments of the royal family directly with the highest official of the Tax Revenue Service. It is very well possible that the Dutch royals themselves have no or only a vague idea about their taxes as these are done for them by professionals. They trust on their well-paid professionals to handle everything correctly. I can imagine that Infanta Doña Cristina has no clue. The Infanta will only be on hook for any private debts or liens if these are exactly made inside the common marriage with Iñaki, assuming that the two personal fortunes are exactly separated by nuptial contract.
 
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It was not just the tax return, Cristina has been using Noos' credit card for personal expense until the last minute. After JC forced Inaki out of Noos, then sent him to DC, anyone seriously think Cristina didn't know the irregularities of Noos ? The Spanish law has always been very harsh towards wives/partners whose husbands involved in corruption. Isabel Pantoja is going to jail, thus most Spaniards believe Cristina is equally guilty as Isabel no matter what the final verdict is.
Felipe can't make the same mistake his father did and let C/I continue damaging the monarchy.
 
What could Felipe do? Can he strip Cristina of her title or have the legal procedure checked for the succession?
Maybe they wait for the outcome of the case.
 
Today, legally, a descendant of Juan Carlos I can only be away from the succession to the Crown, if the person is married against the opinion of the King and Parliament.

Infanta Cristina can resign, but the decision is free and voluntary, and should not have pressure.

So King Felipe's hands are tied, he can not take away her rights, nor can pressure her to resign, because then the waiver may be invalidated later.
 
Thanks Lula, could he take away the Palma title that was given by his father?
 
lula said:
Today, legally, a descendant of Juan Carlos I can only be away from the succession to the Crown, if the person is married against the opinion of the King and Parliament.

Infanta Cristina can resign, but the decision is free and voluntary, and should not have pressure.

So King Felipe's hands are tied, he can not take away her rights, nor can pressure her to resign, because then the waiver may be invalidated later.
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Actually, she can voluntarily renounce her succession rights but the renunciation must be validated by an organic law passed by the Spanish parliament. Pretty much just like King Juan Carlos' abdication.
 
Duke, in theory as is a title of the Crown, he could ... but I have not read any legal analysis on it to confirm it. Also, it's complicated because it would be a disgrace not only to Cristina, but also indirectly to King Juan Carlos, who granted it.

But it would be something just planteable when there is a final court decision.
 
I can't see King Felipe forcing Cristina to do anything I'd imagine at this stage the damage has been done tenfold.
 
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