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  #721  
Old 02-19-2013, 08:04 AM
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An article about the situation, en yesterday:

Quote:
The 45-year-old former Olympic handball player was jeered in February last year when he appeared in court to be questioned for the first time as part of the probe.

He will be grilled again at the court in Palma on Saturday, the same day that Carlos Garcia Revenga, secretary to the king's daughters Elena and Cristina is set to be questioned in the case.

Revenga will be questioned about his role at the Noos Institute and "his possible work as an advisor" to Urdangarin, the court source said.

The palace has said it would keep Garcia in his post and would take no action until he goes before the judge.

Earlier this month the court said it would begin freezing assets belonging to Urdangarin and his former business partner after they missed a deadline to pay bail of 8.2 million euros ($11.1 million).

Since the bail was applied in a civil case the two will not go to jail for not paying the sum.

Read more here.

What a nightmare! Esp. now the king (via his secretary & Corinna Sayn) seems to be caught in this web. I am surprised that the prime minister doesn't act to control the damage. Perhaps it is time to take away Cristina's succession rights a least (IF it is proven she was aware of the situation).

----

From Europa press:


Article in google translate: Google Translate

An MP for the Catalan nationalist party seems to think that abdication starts to become an option at this point.
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  #722  
Old 02-19-2013, 10:59 AM
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Iñaki Urdangarin usó el nombre del príncipe de Asturias para pedir 15 millones
Translation
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  #723  
Old 02-19-2013, 01:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marengo View Post
An article about thesituation, en yesterday:




Read more here.

What a nightmare! Esp. now the king (via his secretary & Corinna Sayn) seems to be caught in this web. I am surprised that the prime minister doesn't act to control the damage. Perhaps it is time to take away Cristina's succession rights a least (IF it is proven she was aware of the situation).

----

From Europa press:


Article in google translate: Google Translate


And I'm sure its only the tip of the ice-berg to come!
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  #724  
Old 02-19-2013, 02:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marengo View Post
What a nightmare! Esp. now the king (via his secretary & Corinna Sayn) seems to be caught in this web. I am surprised that the prime minister doesn't act to control the damage. Perhaps it is time to take away Cristina's succession rights a least (IF it is proven she was aware of the situation).
The Prime Minister, Mariano Rajoy, has his own set of problems.

Spanish Prime Minister Mariano Rajoy under pressure to quit - Telegraph
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  #725  
Old 02-19-2013, 02:10 PM
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Originally Posted by susan alicia View Post
without wanting to go off topic I wonder how this is comparable to anything concerning the windsors. Elizabeth is a queen that even a republican can not find fault with.
I was referring to the mid-to-late 1990s, when the queen's children were going through scandalous divorces and when she herself was so roundly criticized after Diana's death. The family's popularity reached new lows, but it has since bounced back to strong support.

But, yes, the queen has never been tainted with any corruption charges. Prince Andrew's dealings have sometimes been a little concerning, as have Fergie's, which are not completely unlike Inaki's problems.

My guess is if anyone goes down for the problems in Spain, it will be Inaki and his partner, not the king or Christina. Whatever happens, it's a PR nightmare now, but it can be overcome.
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  #726  
Old 02-19-2013, 02:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Lindy View Post
The Prime Minister, Mariano Rajoy, has his own set of problems.

Spanish Prime Minister Mariano Rajoy under pressure to quit - Telegraph
Dont politicians generally use such situations to divert the public attention to the defence-less royals, and make them scapegoats of public anger..
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  #727  
Old 02-19-2013, 02:20 PM
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In this modern age..

Is there any precendent/example of such an issue in any other RF,basing on which King Juan Carlos can contemplate his course of action? Did any constitutional monarchs encounter such situation before?
All I know is Juliana's husband was involved in receiving kickbacks from arms company..What was done about that?
Luckily none of Queen Elizabeth's 'mega-family' ever crossed the line in moral/integrity aspect (AFAIK).
So I think it is a pretty new situation for the King (though there are instances with regard to some Arab and Asian RFs, but that is a different scenario)..
Not only for him, but for the entire government and also judiciary, because there are several things which can never be proved but still they can never be completely denied..
Example:
1. Christina can never say she doesnt know what is going on (though we can never prove otherwise)..
2. The King threw them out to US only because he came to know that 'something is wrong', the least to say.. But then who on earth will not want to find out- what is wrong and how much is wrong? He cannot say he didnt know..
3. The intelligence/anti-corruption agencies in the government immediately come to know of these things, especially when they are related to RF. They should have tipped off the monarch immediately..
4. Thos who want JC to abdicate (not at all me), will never really accept Felipe then. I mean, they can say as the heir and future King, if he doesnt know wat is going on in his immediate family, or the King doesnt share his knowledge (we presume he knew) with his heir. In that scenario, abdication is not at all a solution..

I am not at all blaming the King.I am just thinking in his defence. But for critics, especially Catalan politicians, it is very easy to link up everything and create big stir.
So is there any precedent of this in any RF earlier? And to what extent was involvement was proved/assumed?
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  #728  
Old 02-19-2013, 02:38 PM
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The comparison with the BRF is out of place. Alone what Andrew has gotten away with in Britain (being accused of wasting public money for many years) would have been a killer in Spain.

The Spanish monarchy doesnt have the standing and backing of the people like the British does. Brits haven't known any different for many centuries, there has always been a monarchy. Juan Carlos only filled a gap after Franco, it was more about him as a person than about the institution.

Over the past decades corruption etc was kind of politically correct because everybody was well off and didnt care. Now that the public is suffering, all these things come to light. Maybe Inaki thought he can as well do as others have done for many years, but he forgot that he is not as powerful or as protected or as well connected as the King or the elites in power and that times have changed.

I have said it before that I dont believe that the King was fully in the picture about Inakis acitivties but in my opinion all the things that Juan Carlos has done during the past 40 years for the sake of the country and his own sake would never pass today's morality test (or even worse).

And yes, like vkrish says, Felipe was groomed by his father all his life, its naive to believe that he doesnt know how things have worked within his family and how they managed to stay in power. Of course all this will rub off on him, he has been part of the system Borbon for 45 years now.
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  #729  
Old 02-19-2013, 03:14 PM
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Originally Posted by vkrish View Post
Luckily none of Queen Elizabeth's 'mega-family' ever crossed the line in moral/integrity aspect (AFAIK).
You must be kidding!
I think this shows how short peoples' memory is and that there is still hope for the SRF.

I would say that Juan Carlos is possibly one of the most integer persons in Spain which has a reputation of corruptness ever since I can think (sorry if I gave offence ). This only seems to be a problem now in a financial crisis.

I agree with others that JC probably didn't know what was really going on and just tried to keep the royal family free from scandal. But by doing this he maximized the scandal.

Regarding honesty towards the people: Elizabeth II didn't tell the public that her son had a mistress and his marriage was a sham, did she? "Keep up the facade" was and is the device.
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  #730  
Old 02-19-2013, 03:35 PM
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Originally Posted by ricarda View Post
You must be kidding!
I think this shows how short peoples' memory is and that there is still hope for the SRF.

I would say that Juan Carlos is possibly one of the most integer persons in Spain which has a reputation of corruptness ever since I can think (sorry if I gave offence ). This only seems to be a problem now in a financial crisis.

I agree with others that JC probably didn't know what was really going on and just tried to keep the royal family free from scandal. But by doing this he maximized the scandal.

Regarding honesty towards the people: Elizabeth II didn't tell the public that her son had a mistress and his marriage was a sham, did she? "Keep up the facade" was and is the device.
I meant that Queen Elizabeth's family never had corruption charges. It was in that aspect. Personal scandals are totally different from corruption scandals. That British refernce was just made to make you understand by what you meant by a precedent/previous example. Not to compare BRF and SRF.
"Keeping up the facade" doesnt work in the present scenario, my dear..
And FYI I know and also hope the future of SRF is great..

And mods please excuse me I wanna make one point clear to this person..

Queen Elizabeth never told public her son has a mistress, and neither did she tell her daughter-in-law has a dozen secret lovers..Right?
Neither did Queen Margrethe (for Joachim) nor Juan Carlos(for Elena) make any public statements that their marriags are in sham.. We dont expect monarchs to address people for each and everything. Its jsut that they should do the right corrective action at the right time..
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  #731  
Old 02-19-2013, 04:18 PM
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I am not so sure there is such a big difference between personal scandals and corruption scandals. In the end it all boils down to the people having the feeling of being deceived.

And I think JC took corrective actions. Whether it were the right ones at the right time is debateable.

My problem with this whole case is that the media took control of it. So much has been written and I don't really know what is fact and what is assumption. First it was: Christina must have known, then: the King must have known, now people start saying: Felipe must have known (and if he didn't he is unfit to be king). The public knows little for a fact but Inaki has already been found guilty of anything and the others are under suspicion. It doesn't feel right for me.
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  #732  
Old 02-20-2013, 05:40 AM
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More than 300 journalists have been accredited on 23rd February. The police has again recommended that the Duke does not make the last mile of the journey on foot for safety reasons.
Trescientos periodistas y diez furgones de policía, el dispositivo de la declaración de Urdangarín en los juzgados de Palma el 23-F
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  #733  
Old 02-20-2013, 06:41 AM
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Duke, make no mistake, the King and Prince are and have been in a very different situation. Their personalities are different.

Their education has also been quite different, because the Spain they have grown has been quite different. King grew up in a dictatorship and received a military education... the Prince grew up in a democracy and received great academic education. The King is an intuitive and fast congenial sympathetic with people ... the Prince is serious, thoughtful and with a solid background.

In the Royal Family and the House of the King, the King is the boss. The Prince does not have his own and independent team, but people who work with him have always been under tight control by the King and his people. The King never wanted his son to be a threat to him or the institution, so the control is tight ... and often the only option for the Prince was to be silent and wait.

Nor is it a secret that the Prince has always been closer to his mother and it was she who most influenced his education.

The King has absolute protection under the law, the Prince has no protection... and his teachers, and the people who work with him have recorded that in his mind.

The Prince can respect his father, and must obey the King, but that does not mean he has to agree with all his decisions. But he is the Crown Prince, and publicly he has no choice but to remain silent.

Prince Felipe and Infanta Cristina were the closest siblings, in the early years Urdangarín and Prince Felipe were very good friends. But at some point the Prince begins to distrust Iñaki and establishes distances. There is no data to prove that he helped him in any of his business. And according to some reports he always has been the member of the family that has opted for tough actions. But it is clear that Cristina and Iñaki knew how to convince the King and Queen and get their constant protection.

Prince Felipe and Princess Letizia especially have paid a heavy price. The House of the King has never protected the Princess enough with the press... for years have allowed her to be the target to blame for family problems.
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  #734  
Old 02-20-2013, 07:23 AM
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I think Felipe of course knew what was going on. Everybody in the family could at least feel suspicios about the lifestyle of the Palmas, how couldn´t they?
But what could Felipe have done? He can´t denounce his sister, nor confronting his father against her. The only thing he could do is moving away from Cristina and her husband and avoiding the scandal reaching him.

In my opinion (which of course doesn´t have to be the truth, I don´t know any of them in person ):

The King and the rest of the family know about Iñaki´s bussiness, but maybe they didn´t know how troubled they actually were. Iñaki and Cristina lived in Barcelona, they weren´t in Madrid so often, I think they only could see their family and talk with them from time to time. Maybe JC helped Iñaki with his contacts a few times after he asked him and without knowing very much about the matter (he honestly seems to me the kind of person that would use his power to benefict his family/friends without thinking too much, perfect prey for corrupted and ambitious people).

I guess at some point someone told him that Iñaki´s bussiness weren´t as beautiful as they seem and he tried to stop the scandal by sending him to Washington.

About Felipe, I think he realised before his father that Iñaki was searching illegallity due to his bussiness, and that really was the cause of his distancing from C&I. Maybe Letizia helped him to realise that, she has friends in the media and some of them had been talking for some time about Iñaki´s doubtful bussiness, I don´t know. But it´s a fact that the Asturias and the Palma families has been distanced for many time. The press blamed Letizia for being the cause of the distancing between the siblings, and I guess the RH let the rumour be because it was better for them that people though that than the truth.

I think at the end Felipe did the only thing he was able to do for saving himself from the storm.
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  #735  
Old 02-22-2013, 04:17 PM
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that's quite an interesting view annie. i also remember the press critisizing letizia about the fact that felipe did not see much of cristina and iñaki. if only we had known!

an interesting article about the royal house trying to influence the press, asking them (pressuring them) to not publish info and to tone down anything related with the palma affaire. this comes from the NY times so i consider it to be pretty reliable information.

Quote:
Over the past 10 days, the king, his attendants and the Spanish intelligence service have been pressuring the suspected sources of leaks and approaching top newspaper executives to tone down coverage of the investigation, according to people with ties to the palace and some of Spain’s leading newspapers.
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/22/wo...ncarvajal&_r=0

i find it rather upsetting. such a huge corruption case, spain drown in debt and in economic crisis, and the royal family even dares ask the press to "tone it down". it cannot be more annoying. i hope justice actually works as it should on this case.
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  #736  
Old 02-22-2013, 04:49 PM
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The New York Times has been writing in recent months critical and partial reporting with Spain and the King.

The alleged pressures of the Royal House to the press are a bit absurd, because the press has spent months talking about these issues and have reproduce all that has happened in court.

This case in addition to the Royal Family is affecting important politicians. In recent weeks the Minister of Justice, who was mayor of Madrid, has been linked in the case. Also other politicians of the ruling party, that is also involved in another corruption case. Many political groups are involved in another case of illegal investigations.

And with all these scandals, even more serious than Urdangarin case, the press talks more of him, because it is an affair that creates more gossip.
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  #737  
Old 02-22-2013, 04:50 PM
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Princess Cristina of Spain may be named in corruption case | World news | The Guardian

What was that about toning things down, JC?
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Old 02-22-2013, 06:45 PM
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I don't think the Guardian is a Spanish newspaper
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  #739  
Old 02-22-2013, 07:20 PM
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Oh God..Are they really going to make her sit in the dock? It will be a terrible blow to the King. But I dont think I have any sympathies for her.
Actually there is no point blaming Inaki while condoning her silence/inaction.
But then calling for the King to abdicate is totally absurd.
I think The King publicly dis-owning his daughter may cool the situation, but then it is really bad.
And in these tough times the general public and politicians will find some reason or other to blame the Royals..
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Old 02-22-2013, 07:48 PM
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Today is the day : let's hope we will learn a bit more about this case !
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