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  #481  
Old 06-17-2012, 02:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Charlotte_Aster View Post
I have a "what if" question:
If Spain were not in the position is now with its terrible economy and high unemployement rates, would this whole issue be pushed under the rug?
What do you think?
The judicial investigation opened on July 2010, and it appears he had been investigated on since 2006-08 (different sources give different dates - considering the sensivity of the information I think is understandable).

Long before the current economic Spanish/European serious problems however.
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  #482  
Old 06-17-2012, 01:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Alondra View Post
I think it's unrealistic to expect from any royal house, not just the SRF, not to take advantage of their positions even in the most transparent of circumstances. We all rely on a network of connections when we need to knock on professional doors.

Spain has always had a very strong social conscience. Nothing would make us react more than the injustice of "being taken advantage of" from those considered to be in the elite. We love our RF and see them as a modern institution bringing to the nation connections, stability and continuity. But we don't want crooks, and even less those "by association".

Inaki is being investigated by the judicial system in Spain, and both him and Cristina will pay for their illegal activities one way or another. Having said this, I also want to point out that when it comes to illegal royal activities, I think Spain is setting a benchmark how to deal judicially with the criminal conduct of some of their members, and setting them aside from public activities.
Alondra, don't you think that their entire lifestyle is already the greatest of the advantages for Royal members??? They've got access to the best education (which is so important), they don't worry about common things like paying the bills or making interviews to get a job... If we think, we can find a thousand things they have not to worry about... I do not think they really need much more advantages... Their whole life is an advantage!

You say both Iñaki and Cristina will pay for it, one way or another, and I agree with you in that: in fact, I think Cristina is the one who is paying it the most, right now.
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  #483  
Old 06-17-2012, 09:33 PM
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Originally Posted by An Ard Ri View Post
It may not have gotten the same level of attention but the Spanish people are not fickle.Remember there is a strong Republican movement in Spain who would not have let this scandal be swept under the rug whether it was 2006 or 2012.
I agree. The Spanish people are very politically astute. They have had to be so for the last 80 years or so.
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  #484  
Old 06-17-2012, 10:19 PM
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Am I the only one that is still just amazed that this is happening? That this happy, attractive couple, great parents to beautiful children, members of a privileged royal family, are involved in something like this? I still have a hard time wrapping my mind around it.

It seems most people here feel they would pay in the usual way people pay for these things (trials, possibly imprisonment). But the terrible shame of it all may actually be worse, at least for Cristina. She must be just horrified at what she has done to her own family, her parents, her siblings and most of all her children. I actually feel badly for her.
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  #485  
Old 06-18-2012, 10:35 AM
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Originally Posted by royaltywatcher View Post
Am I the only one that is still just amazed that this is happening? That this happy, attractive couple, great parents to beautiful children, members of a privileged royal family, are involved in something like this? I still have a hard time wrapping my mind around it.

It seems most people here feel they would pay in the usual way people pay for these things (trials, possibly imprisonment). But the terrible shame of it all may actually be worse, at least for Cristina. She must be just horrified at what she has done to her own family, her parents, her siblings and most of all her children. I actually feel badly for her.

You're assuming she feels shame and horror at her actions. Not everyone does. I cannot feel sorry for her if she is involved. Surely she realized the high stakes of her and Inaki's involvement and apparently did not care. She had to have known that she was placing the entire royal family's position in jeopardy, and did it anyway. There are millions of people suffering in Spain. Millions. And she took a position of enormous privilege and may have used it to embezzle money (allegedly). I feel sorry for her children who are too young to realize the full import of this.
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  #486  
Old 06-18-2012, 01:07 PM
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I rather believe that she felt and still feels entitled, like the rest of the SRF. Her attitude certainly does come from somewhere.
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  #487  
Old 06-19-2012, 05:35 AM
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Speculative posts regarding posters 'opinions' on the parenting skills of the Duke and Duchess of Palma have been removed and any further off topic posts will also be removed.
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  #488  
Old 06-19-2012, 10:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade View Post
I rather believe that she felt and still feels entitled, like the rest of the SRF. Her attitude certainly does come from somewhere.
I believe in part of what you say. Apprently she feels entitled but that does not mean that the entire royal family does. Just like "normal" families, there will ALWAYS be that one relative that for some reason feels that they are entitled. They should get all they can no matter what or who they hurt. A slight selfish streak. This person is usually the "sweetie" of the family. I have one in my family and my husband's youngest of seven siblings feels that the world revolved around him. It is a selfish selfcentered personality.

This is not necessarily Cristina's fault. She was raised to feel that way and the other siblings let her have her way. They had their own separate lives. But, having said that, once a person gets to an age, all responsibility for their actions MUST fall on their own head. Time for excuses are over. Breaking the law is one of those times when one must pay no matter who they are. Families might help them out, but if the crime is bad enough, even the family must distance themselves from the criminal. Usually this personality type has no real shame for their bad doing. Afterall, they felt entitled and "got away" with it for years.
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  #489  
Old 06-19-2012, 01:27 PM
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Originally Posted by royaltywatcher View Post
But the terrible shame of it all may actually be worse, at least for Cristina. She must be just horrified at what she has done to her own family, her parents, her siblings and most of all her children. I actually feel badly for her.
That's exactly what I meant when I said that I think that Cristina is paying for it already... This is the worst punishment for her (because I'm sure she will never be formally charged and I really think Iñaki won't go to prison). But the shame, being forced to be far from her people, her country and many of her privileges... That has to be really hurting for her!
But
I would'nt say that she felt entitled: she probably never thought about the consequences of what they were doing and she thought she would always be protected by her position... They were not very smart.
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  #490  
Old 06-23-2012, 03:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade View Post
I rather believe that she felt and still feels entitled, like the rest of the SRF. Her attitude certainly does come from somewhere.
I don't understand why you always had to include the whole SRF. Obviously Felipe had not been approving his sister and BIL's doings and moved away from them years ago. JC had always been helping and supporting Cristina and Inaki, only 'dropped' them in public when they got into serious trouble to defend the monarchy, but behind the door, he is still helping them. So Cristina probably felt 'safe', didn't think anyone dared to touch her as long as she had Daddy's protection, only time has changed, media has changed in Spain now.
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  #491  
Old 06-23-2012, 02:06 PM
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Originally Posted by donnaK View Post
I don't understand why you always had to include the whole SRF. Obviously Felipe had not been approving his sister and BIL's doings and moved away from them years ago. JC had always been helping and supporting Cristina and Inaki, only 'dropped' them in public when they got into serious trouble to defend the monarchy, but behind the door, he is still helping them. So Cristina probably felt 'safe', didn't think anyone dared to touch her as long as she had Daddy's protection, only time has changed, media has changed in Spain now.
With regard to "feeling entitled" I didnt specifically rely to the Inaki case but also to the moral mindset of the SRF.

I've said it before and I'll say it again - JC didnt get on the Spanish throne and is still there because he is such a jovial and down to earth guy. All other family members will have learned from him a lesson or two in that respect, especially Felipe. Inaki being out of his depth wasnt part of the plan.
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  #492  
Old 06-24-2012, 09:58 AM
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The situation of the King and the Royal Family is not the same, the protection that has the King as Head of State does not have the rest of the Royal Family. The infantas and especially the prince knows it, maybe the error of Iñaki was thinking that he was going to be like the King. I refer not only to the press or public opinion, but the laws themselves.

Recently in the press, has appeared more than once the concern of many lawyers on the situation of the prince, more now that he has to replace his father on many occasions. In Spain there are many aspects of the monarchy that the law has not developed, and the Prince and the other members of the family are more vulnerable than other institutional charges.
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  #493  
Old 06-28-2012, 05:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Kleio View Post
Alondra, don't you think that their entire lifestyle is already the greatest of the advantages for Royal members??? They've got access to the best education (which is so important), they don't worry about common things like paying the bills or making interviews to get a job... If we think, we can find a thousand things they have not to worry about... I do not think they really need much more advantages... Their whole life is an advantage!

You say both Iñaki and Cristina will pay for it, one way or another, and I agree with you in that: in fact, I think Cristina is the one who is paying it the most, right now.
Kleio, personally I've always thought that royalty, as such, should have been obsolete by now. I am a republican at heart - I don't agree with privileged lives earned by reason of birth, and not merit.

Having said that, I also believe that parliamentary monarchy in Spain is the lesser of a devil. Juan Carlos and Casa Real has given Spain more than they taken from Spain along the years. It gave our early democracy a balance against the excesses of politicians, and a safeguard against dictatorship.

While JC might be reviled today in forums, IMO, he's done an amazing job. I also think that Felipe and Letizia will be more amazing than JC & S have been. If they get the chance.
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  #494  
Old 06-28-2012, 07:49 AM
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Maybe I am confused about what is opinions and facts.

IMO it maybe that your opinion that the press had turned a blind eye to some of the dealings of the SRF but you state it as if it as a fact that the press had turned a blind eye to these dealings.

If that is case, of course people are going to want somethiing to back up your statement to show that their is a pattern of this type of behavior by members of the SRF.
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  #495  
Old 06-29-2012, 10:28 AM
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  #496  
Old 07-25-2012, 03:36 AM
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According to El Mundo, with the new contract, Urdangarín will receive a salary of 1.5 million euro as well as 1.2 million euro in-kind. The compensation in the event of termination would be 4.5 million euro.
The news has caused an outcry, especially since a few days after the news, the most severe budget cuts that the country has seen in recent history were announced.
Spain: King’s Controversial Son-in-law Gets Salary in Millions · Global Voices
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  #497  
Old 07-30-2012, 06:10 AM
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So far as I know, NOBODY has been convicted yet of anything.If the Infanta has decided to go to Marivent with her children, I suppose she has the approval of the Queen.
There are many reason why Spanish people should be angry and frustrated right now, and I understand this, because the economic crisis in Europe is very bad. But, this crisis wasn´t engendered by the Infanta nor her husband.
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  #498  
Old 08-01-2012, 03:46 AM
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Crecen las presiones del rey a los duques de Palma

Growing pressure from the King on the Dukes of Palma

Cristina choses to stay with Inaki to put up a united front. The King is not happy about it, wants to distance himself from Inaki as much as possible. The article speculates that both King & Prince would like to see a divorce and get rid of Inaki a la Jaime de Marichalar, welcoming back Cristina who could play the dumb housewife, into the family's lap. It has been said that Cristina misses Spain, her friends & family but there is hardly a future for Inaki in Spain.

Once again, the Queen is the only connecting link between the separate camps.
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  #499  
Old 08-01-2012, 04:21 AM
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The media is creating a lot of rumors, we can only wait and see what happens.

Actually, the separation or divorce would be a partial solution, it only would separate Urdangarín of the Royal Family. But no one believes that the infanta is totally innocent, that she was a "stupid" wife who did not know what her husband was doing. She is the infanta and has a responsibility, shadows on her attitude in this story are and will be there for long. Leave her husband, when things go wrong, would not say much about her.

The attitude of both is complicating more and more things. It seems they are totally on the defensive, without recognizing their mistakes and worrying about only themselves.

Infanta Cristina has to be separated from the Royal Family, leaving her public responsibility and privileges. That is the only true solution to the problem. And once away, she does with her ​​private life what she wants.
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Old 08-01-2012, 05:59 AM
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i do not understand, it is perhaps a language problem and or I do not know enough about the case.

She can be innocent of HIS wrongdoing while knowing about it, during or after his actions and knowing about it makes her neither stupid nor intelligent.

why should they divorce? they might if his actions disgust her but it is a private matter. I think I would drop someone like a hot potato if I lost respect but things are always more complicated.
I do not think that her being an infanta obligates her to divorce him since she is innocent of his accepting bribes (I think that is what he is accused of)

How do people know that they do not recognize mistakes and worry only about themselves? It is now surely up to the judicial system to make things clear.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lula View Post
The media is creating a lot of rumors, we can only wait and see what happens.

Actually, the separation or divorce would be a partial solution, it only would separate Urdangarín of the Royal Family. But no one believes that the infanta is totally innocent, that she was a "stupid" wife who did not know what her husband was doing. She is the infanta and has a responsibility, shadows on her attitude in this story are and will be there for long. Leave her husband, when things go wrong, would not say much about her.

The attitude of both is complicating more and more things. It seems they are totally on the defensive, without recognizing their mistakes and worrying about only themselves.

Infanta Cristina has to be separated from the Royal Family, leaving her public responsibility and privileges. That is the only true solution to the problem. And once away, she does with her ​​private life what she wants.
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