The Royal Forums Coat of Arms

Go Back   The Royal Forums > Reigning Houses > Royal Family of Spain > The Duke and Duchess of Palma de Mallorca and Family

Join The Royal Forums Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
  #461  
Old 06-12-2012, 02:35 PM
Aristocracy
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Some City, United States
Posts: 211
This would make a marvelous novel for a rainy afternoon!
__________________

__________________
Reply With Quote
  #462  
Old 06-12-2012, 03:04 PM
EIIR's Avatar
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Somewhere, United Kingdom
Posts: 2,624
Quote:
Originally Posted by camelot23ca View Post
I think being a younger child of a reigning monarch is an upbringing particularly vulnerable to a certain sort of weird, potentially unhealthy attitude towards life. The eldest child, or eldest son, in a royal family is immensely privileged but also generally brought up knowing they have a purpose and responsibilities to their country and the rest of their family. The heir has something to work for. What about the rest of the children, though? It's fine to tell them they have responsibilities, too, but the harsh reality is, as time goes on, they become less and less vital to the institution that's been so central to their lives.
I've thought about the conundrum of younger children of monarchs lately myself. The conclusion I've come to is, harsh as it may sound, monarchs or the first in line should only have a couple of children at most. The reason for this is evident in my own country where QEII had 4 children - the younger children are stuck in a kind of no mans land of constant accusations of being 'hangers-on' or of using their royal connections if they try to go into business privately.

These 'spares' have a childhood of unimaginable luxury and special treatment because their parents are either on the throne or first in line. They get used to that lifestyle but as they get older, have children of their own and move further and further down the line of succession, how can they maintain that lifestyle? If we take the Danish CP couple as an example - is a King Frederik and the Danish taxpayer going to be able to support all 4 of his children in completing public engagements? Will he be able to buy or gift them country estates each? Will they each be given expensive security arrangements for life as children of the monarch? Or will they simply be expected to make their own living?

I can understand Christina's being used to a certain lifestyle; and that moving from living in palaces to living a life of much-reduced means must be jarring and difficult. I can also understand Inaki perhaps feeling under huge pressure to maintain his wife in the standard to which she had become accustomed. This was not the way to go about it. Rather a modest but honest life than one of multi-million euro homes and first class travel bought with money allegedly stolen from hard-working Spanish taxpayers.
__________________

__________________
Reply With Quote
  #463  
Old 06-12-2012, 04:30 PM
Kleio's Avatar
Aristocracy
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: *, Spain
Posts: 158
EIIR, I completely agree with you...
But the point is, that I do not understand why Cristina behaved like this... Sometimes, in Spain, we hear things like our Royal Family have loads of money, but we really don't know, as everybody knows about Queen Beatrix' or Queen Elizabeth's fortunes... Our Royal family has always tried to be very discreet in these things and we've always seen them living as high society people with many privileges, of course, but not really clearly as multi-millionaires... And I think that's been really positive. If we knew, after what has happened last months that they are really so wealthy... well, I think the common Spanish people would be crazy...
I think Cristina would had been able to maintain a wealthy style of life according to her friends or family: I think about Alexia of Greece, Kubrat or Kyril of Bulgaria, their cousin, Maria Zurita... and other member of Spanish high society, these people that have been close to them all these years... They had no need to do what they did. And I say THEY, because I really think Cristina is also responsible. If she was not the King's daughter she had already been charged... Her irresponsability is difficult to understand for me...
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #464  
Old 06-12-2012, 05:08 PM
EIIR's Avatar
Heir Presumptive
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Somewhere, United Kingdom
Posts: 2,624
I don't disagree, Kleio. One point I would make, though, is those former royals you mention (correct me if I'm wrong) have almost never actually experienced the life of the child of a reigning monarch with all the advantages that entails. They've more or less never known anything other than exile whereby their families had to fend for themselves.

Cristina has lived in palaces with servants and chefs, chauffeur driven cars, VIP treatment at all times. Some royal and former royals, along with aristocrats, have managed a certain standard of living; but it has to be earned somehow. No one's going to give Cristina the funds to enjoy the lifestyle of a royal just because of who she is. Cristina and Inaki's joint income presumably couldn't meet the costs of the life they wanted to live, so they allegedly broke the law to do so.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #465  
Old 06-12-2012, 05:36 PM
Aristocracy
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Williamsville, United States
Posts: 224
Don't this couple and their 4 children live in Washington, D. C. USA? Why do people think the Spanish Royal Family is being affected by this corruption? Did this corruption happen in Spain? If so, maybe that is why they're living in the U.S. now? Could someone explain it for me?
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #466  
Old 06-12-2012, 05:44 PM
Lumutqueen's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
Royal Blogger
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Carlton, York, United Kingdom
Posts: 17,085
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexey 1904
Don't this couple and their 4 children live in Washington, D. C. USA? Why do people think the Spanish Royal Family is being affected by this corruption? Did this corruption happen in Spain? If so, maybe that is why they're living in the U.S. now? Could someone explain it for me?
No matter what the situation, I don't understand it fully myself, Inaki is a member of the royal family and has been for several years. What he does affects the family he represents.
__________________
We Will Remember Them.
Reply With Quote
  #467  
Old 06-12-2012, 06:14 PM
padams2359's Avatar
Nobility
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: New Orleans, United States
Posts: 388
I believe he acted all alone about as much as I believe Bernie Madoff did his swindle alone. Trader not making any trades. Come on. The Dutchess might have asked and was told she did not need to know. She knows what an allowance is and how far it goes.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #468  
Old 06-12-2012, 06:17 PM
Courtier
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 501
Quote:
Originally Posted by EIIR View Post
I've thought about the conundrum of younger children of monarchs lately myself. The conclusion I've come to is, harsh as it may sound, monarchs or the first in line should only have a couple of children at most. The reason for this is evident in my own country where QEII had 4 children - the younger children are stuck in a kind of no mans land of constant accusations of being 'hangers-on' or of using their royal connections if they try to go into business privately.

These 'spares' have a childhood of unimaginable luxury and special treatment because their parents are either on the throne or first in line. They get used to that lifestyle but as they get older, have children of their own and move further and further down the line of succession, how can they maintain that lifestyle? If we take the Danish CP couple as an example - is a King Frederik and the Danish taxpayer going to be able to support all 4 of his children in completing public engagements? Will he be able to buy or gift them country estates each? Will they each be given expensive security arrangements for life as children of the monarch? Or will they simply be expected to make their own living?

I can understand Christina's being used to a certain lifestyle; and that moving from living in palaces to living a life of much-reduced means must be jarring and difficult. I can also understand Inaki perhaps feeling under huge pressure to maintain his wife in the standard to which she had become accustomed. This was not the way to go about it. Rather a modest but honest life than one of multi-million euro homes and first class travel bought with money allegedly stolen from hard-working Spanish taxpayers.
I don't think limiting family size is a factor that will make much difference. What I do think will happen is that there will be much less expectation within the royal families and within the countries they represent that the younger children will be working royals. None of the current youngish Crown Princely couples strike me as stupid or naive people - I doubt children like Princess Josephine of Denmark or Princess Ariane of The Netherlands will be raised with any expectation that they'll be supported with public money as adults. They'll just have to somehow make due with superior educations, wealthy parents and unparalleled connections with the global elite.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #469  
Old 06-12-2012, 10:55 PM
Courtier
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: many places, United States
Posts: 831
Quote:
Originally Posted by camelot23ca View Post
None of the current youngish Crown Princely couples strike me as stupid or naive people - I doubt children like Princess Josephine of Denmark or Princess Ariane of The Netherlands will be raised with any expectation that they'll be supported with public money as adults. They'll just have to somehow make due with superior educations, wealthy parents and unparalleled connections with the global elite.
BRILLIANT. I agree with you 100%. I believe that Mary, Letizia & Maxima [all coming from working backgrounds] will instill into their children the value of work ethic and good education plus explaining how lucky they are to be given the opportunity. To attend wonderful universities by working hard. To obtain any life style they want. Of course these children will have contacts that we all don't, but so what. They have been lucky to be born into a life like no other. How wonderful is that. I personally look forward to seeing what they make of themselves. I doubt they will be living on the backs of the taxpayers.
__________________
Forgiveness is the fragrance the violet shed on the heel that crushed it - Mark Twain
Reply With Quote
  #470  
Old 06-13-2012, 02:53 AM
Duke of Marmalade's Avatar
Majesty
TRF Author
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Frankfurt am Main, Germany
Posts: 8,401
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kleio View Post
Sometimes, in Spain, we hear things like our Royal Family have loads of money, but we really don't know, as everybody knows about Queen Beatrix' or Queen Elizabeth's fortunes... Our Royal family has always tried to be very discreet in these things and we've always seen them living as high society people with many privileges, of course, but not really clearly as multi-millionaires... And I think that's been really positive. If we knew, after what has happened last months that they are really so wealthy... well, I think the common Spanish people would be crazy...
There is a reason for it, its rather a strategy than genuine. Its been said many times before, there are many dodgy surroundings JC coming to power and giving it back to the people, it was a one off szenario with many wealthy powers behind JC and we can be sure he and the family got their share of the cake and still do but god knows - or rather doesnt want to know - where the money has been or still is coming from. If JC hadnt been the shrewd guy he is, he never would have made onto the throne and, more importantly, stay there.

For that reason alone, the SRF have never flashed any wealth into their people's eyes but came across as demure, down to earth etc. It can be left to everyone's imagination how much of that attitude was or still is acting, and what is genuine.

Keeping this in mind, its not too difficult to understand the familys attitude towards Inaki, its not far from where they themselves are coming from in the past, so its almost logical to allow him to do business in the first place, to protect him and give him a golden job in the US instead of clarification, to still protect Cristina and others after the whole issue has blown up. And while the King is talking about "eveyone is equal in front of justice" in public, behind closed doors he is still giving protection to the culprits who are part of his own family.

One can only assume that the King must have a very good reason for his protection, because if whole issue would come to light, possibly more important people than Inaki or even Cristina would come into focus.

JC and the whole lot were never whiter than white as they tried to sell themselves but shrewd, at the same time intelligent enough so sell a different media image to the public.

I am sure the only thing they feel sorry about is that a family member got caught in such a spectacular fashion, because Inaki was stupid, greedy and bold enough to leave the proven path of demureness, thinking he was untouchable because of the past.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #471  
Old 06-13-2012, 05:44 AM
lula's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: , Spain
Posts: 16,686
I think we would be hypocrites, but we thought that in many royal families there are cases of use of influence, which often become clogged. The news appearing in the British press about Prince Andrew are very shocking, but so far justice has not acted. The Countess of Wessex only was forced to leave her company, although it was shown that she had abused her position. Prince Laurent said in court, but came out pretty well when he could have been charged with misuse of public money. In the Netherlands, prince Bernard and the Lockheed scandal or the problems of Willem and Maxima, their multiple properties and the alleged use of tax havens.

And other cases of members of royal families who use their name in business, are involved in scandals, but in the end always come out unscathed. Probably, if all of them were politicians or ordinary citizens, have been investigated and in many cases tried ... and not only warned or temporarily removed from public activity.

Iñaki was too ambitious, made ​​things very stupid and was discovered indirectly because some of those who paid him were involved in major corruption cases. But justice is acting, and that's the most important.

The theme of the Royal Family, money and business, is more complex.

Spanish society has always been terribly sensitive to economic issues, own big property or shares in major companies is normal in other european monarchies and their societies accept it as normal, but in Spain it would be a difficult issue to treat. The fact that the laws do not legislate anything about it, makes it also more complicated.

Then there is the history of the Royal Family. Think of a Royal Family who was in exile repeatedly, who lost much of their fortune and property, they had to live far below the lifestyle they were accustomed, receiving "charity" or selling things. King Juan Carlos and Queen Sofia are very marked by it. Having the need to make their small fortune, enabling them to live well and have a future if things go wrong again, it is not for them a distant hypothesis, but the real thing because they have already suffered what means to lose it.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #472  
Old 06-13-2012, 07:41 AM
Kleio's Avatar
Aristocracy
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: *, Spain
Posts: 158
EIIR, you're right when you say that the former Royals I've mentioned have not lived as Infanta Cristina: they have not been as much as her at the spotlight, but they have been part of her circle of friends and we've always seen the Infantas and Prince Felipe living more like this kind of high society people or however you want to call them... Anyway, Cristina has grown up knowing that she won't be always the king's daughter, one day she might be just the king's sister... and anyway, she will have a gifted life because she has been raised and educated to mantain this lifestyle and because, fortunately for her, I think a king's daughter will never be unemployed as almost four million of people in Spain are (many of them with superior studies...)

lula, I also agree with you except for one thing: it's true justice is acting, but not for everyone the same, as our king claimed... His daughter has not been called to declare, at least as a witness, when her name has been proved to be in the papers of Institute Noos as Secretary or whatever... So, she has clearly been protected. And with her, the whole Monarchy.

And I also agree with you that the History of our Royal Family in the last century is too complicated and it's important to know where our King and Queen come from to understand the whole thing... Both of their families have been in exile and, at least Juan Carlos, he had nothing when he arrived to Spain (well, of course he was the son of the one who was considered the king in exile by many people then...) The particular circumstances of his arrival to the throne make it very, very fragile and this is something that it's obvious Our King has in mind, that's why he put distance from the beginning from this scandal to try the monarchy not to be too afflicted. The same Felipe has done. That's why I haven't understood the stupidity we have seen later: Our King accepting a journey to hunt elephants in Botswana when our country is facing its most difficult moments in the last decades... (people make fun about it but I think it's better to see the hilarious part of it, otherwise I think it's a really big and serious mistake!!!!!)
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #473  
Old 06-13-2012, 09:39 AM
Duke of Marmalade's Avatar
Majesty
TRF Author
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Frankfurt am Main, Germany
Posts: 8,401
... because King & Queen have been through the process of wealth/property taken away from them (possibly wrongly in their opinion since they felt entitled) its easy to see why their tolerance (and the tolerance of their children or other family members) on getting it back or keeping it or gaining more wealth/property would be different - less ethical - to the average person.

Clearly, Inaki wouldnt have gotten anywhere without the support of the King.

And the fact that the King says one thing in public -as a necessity - but does the other in private (protection of Cristina) shows his true mindset regarding this whole issue.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #474  
Old 06-13-2012, 11:22 AM
lula's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: , Spain
Posts: 16,686
I think the King did very well with his daughters, but failed to consider the role of his sons in law. His daughters are Infantas, and they sought for them suitable jobs, in social and cultural foundations and a good salary. I sometimes think that the King really did not considered the "in law" as members of the Royal Family, and thought that they did would not affect the institution, probably even his power or influence over them was much less. No one thought that the good Iñaki, would be so stupid and greedy. Probably if when he left the sport, Inaki had not commenced business (doing business, we must remember, through a nonprofit organization allegedly) and had a salaried position in a company, as he has in Telefonica, this had not happened.

The King and Queen have a very complicated role to find a balance between official and family responsibility. I have no clear what will happen with Cristina, and to what extent she can be protected or not... we shall see it in the future.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #475  
Old 06-13-2012, 12:49 PM
Aristocracy
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Some City, United States
Posts: 211
I think that the time is coming where she will not be protected, as more and more of this unravels. At first I thought Inaki would get a pass with a sweet plea deal - I no longer think that this is the case.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #476  
Old 06-13-2012, 01:00 PM
Serene Highness
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Heidelberg, Germany
Posts: 1,389
I have a "what if" question:
If Spain were not in the position it is now with its terrible economy and high unemployement rates, would this whole issue be pushed under the rug?
What do you think?
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #477  
Old 06-13-2012, 01:18 PM
Courtier
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: many places, United States
Posts: 831
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlotte_Aster View Post
I have a "what if" question:
If Spain were not in the position it is now with its terrible economy and high unemployement rates, would this whole issue be pushed under the rug?
What do you think?
Of course it would and the Spanish people, living a much different monetary life, would just smile, nod their head and think "Rank Has It's Privileges". Been like that since the year of one. Now it is harder to sweep under the rug with modern media plus Spanish people are hurting financially. This entire situation [Inaki, Cristina, King] is offending the Spanish population. Shame. I do so feel sorry for the Queen, her DIL and all the grandchildren. What an immoral disaster all around.
__________________
Forgiveness is the fragrance the violet shed on the heel that crushed it - Mark Twain
Reply With Quote
  #478  
Old 06-13-2012, 02:37 PM
An Ard Ri's Avatar
Super Moderator
Royal Blogger
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Westmeath, Ireland
Posts: 8,617
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlotte_Aster View Post
I have a "what if" question:
If Spain were not in the position it is now with its terrible economy and high unemployement rates, would this whole issue be pushed under the rug?
What do you think?
It may not have gotten the same level of attention but the Spanish people are not fickle.Remember there is a strong Republican movement in Spain who would not have let this scandal be swept under the rug whether it was 2006 or 2012.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #479  
Old 06-13-2012, 03:19 PM
Kleio's Avatar
Aristocracy
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: *, Spain
Posts: 158
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlotte_Aster View Post
I have a "what if" question:
If Spain were not in the position it is now with its terrible economy and high unemployement rates, would this whole issue be pushed under the rug?
What do you think?

I don't really think so... This issue is serious enough as to be pushed under the rug... But probably, people would have felt less hurt and offended. In this financial and historical context we're living, the Monarchy has turned out damaged and terribly weakened. Just my opinion.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #480  
Old 06-17-2012, 02:44 AM
Alondra's Avatar
Nobility
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Madrid, Spain
Posts: 290
I think it's unrealistic to expect from any royal house, not just the SRF, not to take advantage of their positions even in the most transparent of circumstances. We all rely on a network of connections when we need to knock on professional doors.

Spain has always had a very strong social conscience. Nothing would make us react more than the injustice of "being taken advantage of" from those considered to be in the elite. We love our RF and see them as a modern institution bringing to the nation connections, stability and continuity. But we don't want crooks, and even less those "by association".

Inaki is being investigated by the judicial system in Spain, and both him and Cristina will pay for their illegal activities one way or another. Having said this, I also want to point out that when it comes to illegal royal activities, I think Spain is setting a benchmark how to deal judicially with the criminal conduct of some of their members, and setting them aside from public activities.
__________________

__________________
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
corruption, iñaki urdangarín, infanta cristina, scandal


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Infanta Cristina, Iñaki Urdangarín & Family, Current Events Part 15: March 2011 - dazzling The Duke and Duchess of Palma de Mallorca and Family 495 06-20-2014 08:42 AM
Engagement of Infanta Cristina and Iñaki Urdangarín; May 3, 1997 Mandy The Duke and Duchess of Palma de Mallorca and Family 15 05-22-2007 01:30 AM
Is Cristina and Iñaki's marriage in trouble? ellene The Duke and Duchess of Palma de Mallorca and Family 2 11-09-2003 11:28 AM




Additional Links
Popular Tags
birth charlene chris o'neill crown prince frederik crown prince haakon crown princess letizia crown princess mary crown princess mette-marit crown princess victoria current events danish royals fashion grand duchess maria teresa grand duke henri hohenzollern infanta cristina infanta elena infanta leonor infanta sofia jordan king abdullah ii king carl xvi gustav king felipe king felipe vi king harald king juan carlos king philippe king willem-alexander luxembourg ottoman pom prince albert prince albert ii prince carl philip prince constantijn prince felipe prince floris prince laurent prince pieter-christiaan princess princess alexia (2005 -) princess anita princess ariane princess beatrix princess catharina-amalia princess charlene princess claire princess elisabeth princess laurentien princess letizia princess mabel princess madeleine princess margriet princess marie princess mary princess of asturias queen letizia queen mathilde queen maxima queen paola queen rania queen silvia queen sofia royal russia sofia hellqvist spain state visit wedding william


Our Communities

Our communities encompass many different hobbies and interests, but each one is built on friendly, intelligent membership.

» More about our Communities

Automotive Communities

Our Automotive communities encompass many different makes and models. From U.S. domestics to European Saloons.

» More about our Automotive Communities

RV & Travel Trailer Communities

Our RV & Travel Trailer sites encompasses virtually all types of Recreational Vehicles, from brand-specific to general RV communities.

» More about our RV Communities

Marine Communities

Our Marine websites focus on Cruising and Sailing Vessels, including forums and the largest cruising Wiki project on the web today.

» More about our Marine Communities


Copyright 2002-2012 Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:01 AM.

Social Knowledge Networks

eXTReMe Tracker
Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2014
Jelsoft Enterprises

Royal News Delivered to your Email!

You can get the latest Royal News right in your inbox.

unsusbcribe at anytime with one click

Close [X]