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  #441  
Old 06-09-2012, 02:40 PM
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Given what's happened to the Spanish property market, that 6 million euro house may only be worth a fraction of the price they paid for it.

If he's found guilty, surely he'll have to repay the money he stole? Which I'm assuming would bankrupt him. Do we think the King would step in at that stage to bail his son-in-law out?
They'll be helped out somehow. Regardless of any sort of restitution/bankruptcy, etc, Inaki and Christina will never live like they're poor. They'll come to some sort of agreement with the prosecutors eventually, make restitution, (whether that involves paying back money, jail time, whatever), and then be given a nice, soft landing by wealthy and influential family and friends. If the friends are smart they won't be given positions of real responsibility, and they'll need to lay low for awhile but they'll be given a second chance, (which isn't necessarily a bad thing, IMO).
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  #442  
Old 06-09-2012, 02:57 PM
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I agree that they will be helped out, and that there will be a soft landing.
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  #443  
Old 06-09-2012, 04:07 PM
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They may land soft financially, but still there is a heavy price to be paid by the whole family: the repercussions on a social/class level, the likability never to live in Spain again, the image of the whole SRF damaged because in the end they will orchestrate the soft landing. Wrongdoing shouldnt pay off but compared to others having done wrong but without connections it certainly does for Inaki.
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  #444  
Old 06-10-2012, 10:36 AM
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They may land soft financially, but still there is a heavy price to be paid by the whole family: the repercussions on a social/class level, the likability never to live in Spain again, the image of the whole SRF damaged because in the end they will orchestrate the soft landing. Wrongdoing shouldnt pay off but compared to others having done wrong but without connections it certainly does for Inaki.

I agree, the "soft landing" will be a financial one, IMO. But the price will be a heavy one, including problems within the family itself, most likely, or within the marriage. A united front now might very well change in the future. I'd rather have the financial issues than all of these other issues.
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  #445  
Old 06-11-2012, 04:39 AM
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Police found the contract between Urdangarin with frontmen in Belize

Iñaki Urdangarin - each passing day brings him a little closer to prison. The judicial investigation conducted by Judge Jose Castro has collected a trail of evidence against the Duke of Palma. And not just for an alleged crime of fraud against public administration, but also for possible tax evasion and tax fraud.

According to police reports data, held by the prosecution, the front men of the Duke of Palma would have a network of about 50 firms, most front companies to launder money and divert tax havens, such as Belize or Panama, for Noos Institute.

La policía halla el contrato que vincula a Urdangarin con testaferros en Belice - EcoDiario.es
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  #446  
Old 06-11-2012, 07:20 AM
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My God, my God...I really wonder what will happen...
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Police found the contract between Urdangarin with frontmen in Belize

Iñaki Urdangarin - each passing day brings him a little closer to prison. The judicial investigation conducted by Judge Jose Castro has collected a trail of evidence against the Duke of Palma. And not just for an alleged crime of fraud against public administration, but also for possible tax evasion and tax fraud.

According to police reports data, held by the prosecution, the front men of the Duke of Palma would have a network of about 50 firms, most front companies to launder money and divert tax havens, such as Belize or Panama, for Noos Institute.

La policía halla el contrato que vincula a Urdangarin con testaferros en Belice - EcoDiario.es
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  #447  
Old 06-11-2012, 08:46 AM
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The situation gets worse for Inaki by day.
I'm not even certain the prosecution would actually accept guilty plea at this stage; the evidence against Inaki appears to be too substantial for that.
Unless, of course, they are pressured into accepting the plea - and that would be a huge PR mistake on behalf of the Royal Family and the King personally.
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  #448  
Old 06-11-2012, 01:26 PM
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The situation gets worse for Inaki by day.
I'm not even certain the prosecution would actually accept guilty plea at this stage; the evidence against Inaki appears to be too substantial for that.
Unless, of course, they are pressured into accepting the plea - and that would be a huge PR mistake on behalf of the Royal Family and the King personally.

Duke, thanks for that link. Artemisia, if you click on the link there is a link to another story from that periodical - it appears that they cannot or will not accept a guilty plea. (I think it's "cannot"). The link sums it up far better than me.

The information about the 50 businesses, etc, and the other possible charges are just staggering to me. Simply and utterly staggering. I knew that the allegations were bad, but this is incredible. If this is all true, what was he thinking?

Artemisia, unless Cristina is investigated and/or charged, I would guess the SRF is going to start to really distancing themselves, not only on the surface.

P.S. Did I mention that I'm glad I'm not Inaki today?
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  #449  
Old 06-11-2012, 01:41 PM
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The scale is certainly no longer on "trivial offence" level as what corruption is often treated in some countries where there is a longstanding history of "doing it that way", it rather sounds like organized crime from Inaki & his "friends".

What kind of marriage is this in case Cristina didnt know? She either closed her eyes because she is a person who isnt interested in where the money is coming from, the main point is that its there; or she knew exactly what was going on and thought that nobody would dare to expose the King's son-in-law.
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  #450  
Old 06-11-2012, 03:42 PM
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I agree, Duke. It does sound like an organized crime ring now. When the information first started making the rounds last fall, you really don't know how much involvement, or the exact details, etc.

As for Cristina, it will be very interesting to see how this plays out in the next few years. If I could give her any benefit of the doubt, when you have four young children like she did all in the space of 6 years or so you are in a fog - all those pregnancies, nursing, etc, mothering. I'm sure she had a tremendous amount of help, but still... add to that her royal duties.

I'm not sure what kind of marriage they had.... but it will be nothing but strain from here on out no matter what brave face they show the world.
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  #451  
Old 06-11-2012, 03:55 PM
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it rather sounds like organized crime from Inaki & his "friends".

What kind of marriage is this in case Cristina didnt know? She either closed her eyes because she is a person who isnt interested in where the money is coming from, the main point is that its there; or she knew exactly what was going on and thought that nobody would dare to expose the King's son-in-law.
You are so correct! She HAD to know but since she was always the darling of the media and favorite child of the King, she actually thought that NOTHING could ever hurt her. People just wouldn't dare. And, that was life and true years ago. But with the media of today with Internet, 24 hour news channels on TV, etc., nothing goes unnoticed no matter how the government wants to hide. This is good as the public should hold their officials accountable. No one should be able to break the law. I still believe that the only redemption for the SRF is if Inaki spends some real time in jail and that Cristina is offically removed from Spain for many years. Anything else will only cause the people to feel that special treatment is given Inaki and Cristina, which on top of everything else this King is doing recently, not a good idea!
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  #452  
Old 06-11-2012, 04:22 PM
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We've seen this sort of thing in Ireland quite a lot since the property market crashed. Lots of developers took out loans in the name of their wives, or had their wives sign personal guarantees and now all these women are claiming that they had no idea what they had signed, they just did as they were told by their husbands. Needless to say the aren't falling for it.

Christina is either incredibly stupid or so devoted to her husband that she chose to turn a blind eye. I don't know which scenario is worse.
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  #453  
Old 06-11-2012, 07:25 PM
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Christina is either incredibly stupid or so devoted to her husband that she chose to turn a blind eye. I don't know which scenario is worse.
I personally don't believe that either is correct. I believe she was in on the entire situation and money grabbing from the start. Upper class living needs quite a bit of money to maintain for years. She knew their salaries certainly didn't make it. They had the perfect scam to achieve. It would still be going on if someone hadn't put two and two together and investigated. No different than any other greedy scam artists that are now sitting in prisons all over the world. Just because they are "royals", they don't have the right to rob from inocent people and not be properly punished.
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  #454  
Old 06-11-2012, 07:41 PM
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I personally don't believe that either is correct. I believe she was in on the entire situation and money grabbing from the start. Upper class living needs quite a bit of money to maintain for years. She knew their salaries certainly didn't make it. They had the perfect scam to achieve. It would still be going on if someone hadn't put two and two together and investigated. No different than any other greedy scam artists that are now sitting in prisons all over the world. Just because they are "royals", they don't have the right to rob from inocent people and not be properly punished.
I tend to agree with you.
The way it looks to me, Cristina was perfectly aware of all of her husband's doings from the very beginning. She believed, wrongly as it turned out, that her father's name and influence would protect her family should something came to the attention of authorities. She may not be questioned, charged or sentenced, but the stain on her name and the shame she brought upon her family will remain forever.

I am sorry for Cristina and Inaki's children, but no sympathy whatsoever for the couple; they got what they deserve. In fact, I think they'll off a lot easier then they should. The real victims are the innocent people who were fooled by Inaki, his partner, and everyone else who took part in this scheme.
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  #455  
Old 06-11-2012, 08:06 PM
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I think being a younger child of a reigning monarch is an upbringing particularly vulnerable to a certain sort of weird, potentially unhealthy attitude towards life. The eldest child, or eldest son, in a royal family is immensely privileged but also generally brought up knowing they have a purpose and responsibilities to their country and the rest of their family. The heir has something to work for. What about the rest of the children, though? It's fine to tell them they have responsibilities, too, but the harsh reality is, as time goes on, they become less and less vital to the institution that's been so central to their lives.

And I mean, really, why would someone like Christina question where the money's coming from? Do you think she was taught to question why her family lived in luxurious surroundings, went to the best schools, had the best vacations, despite their relative lack of personal wealth? She didn't have to do anything to get all that, she got it just because of who she WAS, or more to the point, who her father was. And that's great, but there's a reason younger siblings in these families historically tended to marry other royals or to marry money - that's how you keep your lifestyle as an adult, (I'm going to guess that working 90 hours a week at a bank to earn that lifestyle for themselves was not presented as a serious option for the Spanish infantas).
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  #456  
Old 06-11-2012, 10:05 PM
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I think being a younger child of a reigning monarch is an upbringing particularly vulnerable to a certain sort of weird, potentially unhealthy attitude towards life. The eldest child, or eldest son, in a royal family is immensely privileged but also generally brought up knowing they have a purpose and responsibilities to their country and the rest of their family. The heir has something to work for. What about the rest of the children, though? It's fine to tell them they have responsibilities, too, but the harsh reality is, as time goes on, they become less and less vital to the institution that's been so central to their lives.

And I mean, really, why would someone like Christina question where the money's coming from? Do you think she was taught to question why her family lived in luxurious surroundings, went to the best schools, had the best vacations, despite their relative lack of personal wealth? She didn't have to do anything to get all that, she got it just because of who she WAS, or more to the point, who her father was. And that's great, but there's a reason younger siblings in these families historically tended to marry other royals or to marry money - that's how you keep your lifestyle as an adult, (I'm going to guess that working 90 hours a week at a bank to earn that lifestyle for themselves was not presented as a serious option for the Spanish infantas).
While I really do think you could be right there, if she's charged, that's NOT the defense she wants to present, "I was just so used to it, you know...." The Spanish public appears to be incensed enough over this.
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  #457  
Old 06-11-2012, 11:33 PM
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I dont know enough but from the little I have read I am not willing to sail Christina down the river. There are cases where the wife does not know, I've heard about it in cases of money, affairs, and even some wives who were married to serial killers. I do wonder if the SRF would be so cruel as to ask her to choose between her marriage or her title.
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  #458  
Old 06-12-2012, 03:14 AM
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I personally don't believe that either is correct. I believe she was in on the entire situation and money grabbing from the start. Upper class living needs quite a bit of money to maintain for years. She knew their salaries certainly didn't make it. They had the perfect scam to achieve. It would still be going on if someone hadn't put two and two together and investigated. No different than any other greedy scam artists that are now sitting in prisons all over the world. Just because they are "royals", they don't have the right to rob from inocent people and not be properly punished.
Completely agree with you. Cristina wanted to get rich with her father's connection, many people did that with their parents' connection all over the world, why not her ? She was not the only one in the family, her sister Elena also wanted to get rich, but was a couple of years too late. Elena found a financial consultant company right after the divorce, only got shut down by the King immediately.

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I dont know enough but from the little I have read I am not willing to sail Christina down the river. There are cases where the wife does not know, I've heard about it in cases of money, affairs, and even some wives who were married to serial killers. I do wonder if the SRF would be so cruel as to ask her to choose between her marriage or her title.
She is not a normal wife, she is the wife with the connection her husband depended on. There are evidence she had helped her hubby to facilitate contracts. I never thought Inaki could get all those contracts without the help of the King. Now the only thing that could save her is that she has no executive role in the Noos, but it doesn't mean she didn't know the frauds of Noos. Her secretary and confidant was the treasurer of Noos, I doubt he didn't inform her on the business of Noos. Almost everyone who had been working for Noos, including part-time workers, had been called to testify at least as witnesses, why not Cristina and her secretary ? Why is the King so afraid of Cristina or her secretary being questioned ? Sure, everyone is equal in front of justice (in the Christmas speech of the King).
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  #459  
Old 06-12-2012, 11:28 AM
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That's incredible to me that even lowliest workers of Noos were questioned but NOT Cristina or the secretary, AND very telling. Whoever said Cristina will have this hanging over her head for the rest of her life is right.
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Old 06-12-2012, 01:07 PM
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... it makes one think that Inaki is only the commoner fall guy for other members / confidantes of the royal family, who have always known what was going on but kept their mouth shut or even supported Inaki for their own gain.
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