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  #201  
Old 01-08-2012, 11:20 AM
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With infanta Cristina we return to the line between the ethics and the legality.

According to all the information, Iñaki and his partner, were taking the decisions and were handling the money. Although the name of others (Infanta Cristina, Secretary Revenga) are linked, there is probably no documentation showing that they were directly involved in decision-making ... perhaps they will ask them at the trial as witnesses, but there is no legal basis for charging.

Iñaki was the son-in-law of the king, he could have won a lot of money legally, how did Jaime de Marichalar, or how he does in Telefonica now. Infanta Cristina is not stupid, but has had the privilege of being the daughter of a king, and perhaps the money has not been a major concern for her, if she had always had and still had, she had no questions. She was very much in love and trust her husband, if he wanted to do business, she supported him... Iñaki also appears that he was convinced and, by his statements still is, that he has done well. If everyone considered him a good person, if he was convinced and convinced them that he had done well ... why should they doubt him?

Often we judge the persons for the appearances, and we see what we want to see or what it is convenient for us to see. Iñaki adapted well to the Royal Family, he was nice and familiar, was sharing interests with them, and he and his family were a very good image... maybe because of it during a time nobody questioned that he wanted to do business and gain money. Evidently, it seems that it was until they started discovering that it was really behind, at least for some of them.
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  #202  
Old 01-08-2012, 01:41 PM
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Maybe some people judge others by their appearance. The way I saw the Palma family was always that of a very normal group of people. Loving parents, lovely children but not at all living as nabobs. I never saw these children going to school in chauffer driven cars (like it is very normal of rich people here) and on holidays, going to a public beach and enjoying themselves as many Spaniards do, I´m sure.
The fact that Cristina is an Infanta but took her kids to school, wore very casual clothes unless in special occasions, also was fantastic to see, when you compare to people who are not royals and have their children in the care of nannies and the mothers all togged up in couture outfits and expensive jewelry.
What was there to discover?If you guys knew that they lived extravagant lives,and also are certain of their plots and their guilt, but kept quiet about it, then it´s another thing altogether.
I never read or heard of anything such until recently.
But, let´s not forget also, that so far nothing has been proven totally 100% and this family has already been dragged in the mud, children included.Otherwise, why isn´t he in jail already?
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  #203  
Old 01-08-2012, 02:23 PM
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And about Cristina... No comment or... well, just let me be the devil's advocate again. He married a handball player who had not finish his degree at university (he did it later and got an MBA, I think) and a few years later, they buy a house of several million euros... Come on, who did she think she had married? Warren Buffett? It's obvious that she had to realize about something (if she was not part of it, hope she wasn't...)
You know, I always assumed some of the money to buy that house came from Cristina, the King and Queen, or family wealth. Does the family not have any money? In England, each of the children of the Queen were set up in some sort of HRH-appropriate estate. It seems reasonable that the King and Queen would provide for all of their children's needs.

The house really doesn't look all that amazing to me, compared to what we see for other royalty in similar roles.
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  #204  
Old 01-08-2012, 02:31 PM
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Iñaki had a good public image, was handsome, athletic, a good father ... and now people discover this, the disappointment is huge. (Probably, if they had been Jaime or Letizia, which the press has always criticized the disappointment would have been less).
I totally agree with this. There is something very upsetting about this sort of thing coming from this particular man, this couple. Here in America we would Inaki "all-American" and look up to him. So the betrayal and confusion is great. People think, if this family is involved in this sort of thing, is anybody honest?
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  #205  
Old 01-08-2012, 02:48 PM
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You know, I always assumed some of the money to buy that house came from Cristina, the King and Queen, or family wealth. Does the family not have any money? In England, each of the children of the Queen were set up in some sort of HRH-appropriate estate. It seems reasonable that the King and Queen would provide for all of their children's needs.

The house really doesn't look all that amazing to me, compared to what we see for other royalty in similar roles.

I really have no idea where the money to buy that house came from but I think not everything came from Cristina and her family... It's obvious that they are Royals and they all live in good and big places, like any other wealthy people. Everybody knows Infanta Elena lives in one of the most exclusive neighbourhoods in Madrid and Cristina used to do it in one of the Barcelona's most exclusive ones. I think that's normal. But I think what Spanish people liked from SRF is that they had always enjoyed discreetly their wealth. I've read sometimes in these forums people saying they didn't like the Royals when they didn't show their status: by wearing tiaras or jewels... things like these... But I think what most Spaniards have always appreciated about SRF is exactly the opposite: they wear tiaras when they have to, but the rest of the time they look very normal. People loves the closeness they have, specially the King.

Carminha, saying that Iñaki's family has being "dragged in the mud, children included"... I respect your opinion although I disagree.
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  #206  
Old 01-08-2012, 03:12 PM
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When they bought the house of Barcelona began the first rumors, because it was a very expensive house, the price was several million euros, was completely rebuilt and decorated. One thing is that they did not have an extravagant life, and another that with the salary of the Infanta Cristina and Iñaki work they could maintain that lifestyle. A big house in the best area of Barcelona, private school for 4 children, sports club, vacation... I have always seen the Palma were those who most like to enjoy privileges free (skiing in Baqueira, the yacht in Palma), and curiously no one criticized them for this.

There were also some rumors when they went to Washington. But there were rumors that he benefited of being son-in-law of the King, but that was relatively normal (no different from rumors on Jaime). The reality that existed behind has surprised all.

They had a good image, good publicity and press had good pictures. Barcelona is more discreet than Madrid, there are fewer paparazzi ... they posed in celebrations and the press did not bother them. Noos business coincided with the wedding of Prince, information was focused on Letizia, and so continued the next years. Later Infanta Elena´s divorce.

Now the story has appeared for a judicial inquiry, 5 years later. Now press no longer publishes rumors ... is publishing data of the judicial inquiry that is public. The judicial process will take months, but the judicial investigation provides clear and worrying data.
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  #207  
Old 01-08-2012, 03:54 PM
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Kleio, Infanta Elena lives in a large apartment in a central area of Madrid ... but not a luxurious place, the area is upper middle class.

She lived in a better place before the divorce, in the Salamanca district, more luxurious. But for many years they lived in rent, until a couple of years before the separation Jaime with his savings and an inheritance from an aunt, bought a flat in the same area, where he still lives.

They have lived in big flats in good areas of Madrid, normal places for a infanta and her husband, but nothing excessive. They have never lived in a big house with a large garden in a luxurious neighborhood like La Moraleja or Puerta del Hierro (places where the rich and famous live).
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  #208  
Old 01-08-2012, 04:01 PM
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Originally Posted by lula View Post
Kleio, Infanta Elena lives in a large apartment in a central area of Madrid ... but not a luxurious place, the area is upper middle class.

She lived in a better place before the divorce, in the Salamanca district, more luxurious. But for many years they lived in rent, until a couple of years before the separation Jaime with his savings and an inheritance from an aunt, bought a flat in the same area, where he still lives.

They have lived in big flats in good areas of Madrid, normal places for a infanta and her husband, but nothing excessive. They have never lived in a big house with a large garden in a luxurious neighborhood like La Moraleja or Puerta del Hierro (places where the rich and famous live).
lula, you're right, I know infanta Elena lives in a large apartment. I know she has never lived in a big house, although I thought she was still living in the Salamanca district. I also read about Jaime's inheritance from an aunt.

I think Elena's lifestyle, in the last years, it's been much more discreet than her sister's...
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  #209  
Old 01-08-2012, 04:16 PM
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However, I think that you make an interesting point. If, as you say, it had been Jaime or Letizia (whom the press appear to criticise a lot) the anger would have been great but with it would come the attitude "sure, what do you expect". ?
I think it has to do with the fact that Inaki was kind of serving Spain in his own right by being part of the Olympic team, a famous and successful handballer (as famous as handballers can get) who got his position through his achievements and hard work (nobody can become a team member through connections at this level). It takes some discipline, talent and effort to get where Inaki got in his sports career, therefore he had a bonus from the start. Plus he is handsome, from Catalonia, he ticked all the likable boxes.

Both Jaime and Letizia were seen as social climbers (more so than Inaki), with Jaime being an akward person and lots of rumours surrounding Letizia, including that she only made it as TVE anchor because of Felipe's interference (6 weeks prior to the engagement the aim was to make her face familiar to the Spanish public and to enhance her CV).

Inaki never came across as social climber, ambitious or calculating since he reached the pinnacle of his career - a career of hard physical work - without the help of the royal house.
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  #210  
Old 01-08-2012, 04:34 PM
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lula, you're right, I know infanta Elena lives in a large apartment. I know she has never lived in a big house, although I thought she was still living in the Salamanca district. I also read about Jaime's inheritance from an aunt.

I think Elena's lifestyle, in the last years, it's been much more discreet than her sister's...
Infanta Elena lives now in "Niño Jesús" neighbourhood, near El Retiro park
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  #211  
Old 01-08-2012, 04:40 PM
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I think it has to do with the fact that Inaki was kind of serving Spain in his own right by being part of the Olympic team, a famous and successful handballer (as famous as handballers can get) who got his position through his achievements and hard work (nobody can become a team member through connections at this level). It takes some discipline, talent and effort to get where Inaki got in his sports career, therefore he had a bonus from the start. Plus he is handsome, from Catalonia, he ticked all the likable boxes.

Both Jaime and Letizia were seen as social climbers (more so than Inaki), with Jaime being an akward person and lots of rumours surrounding Letizia, including that she only made it as TVE anchor because of Felipe's interference (6 weeks prior to the engagement the aim was to make her face familiar to the Spanish public and to enhance her CV).

Inaki never came across as social climber, ambitious or calculating since he reached the pinnacle of his career - a career of hard physical work - without the help of the royal house.

Duke, I agree with you that Iñaki's achievements during his sport career were great and due to personal effort and discipline. He was a great sportman and no one denies that. Iñaki was not born in Catalonia, although he was living in Barcelona during his childhood and I think he came back when he was around seventeen years old...

About Letizia, I have no idea if he was conducting the news just because they wanted her to become familiar to the Spaniards. I had never heard about that.

And Jaime, well, his father was a count, his grandfather I think he was a marquis. He comes from aristocrats, he had a wealthy auntie who made him her heir... I wouldn't define Jaime as a social climber...
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  #212  
Old 01-08-2012, 05:44 PM
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Duke, I do not believe that it was like that.

Iñaki was a sportsman, of a minority sport, but as every sportsman his sports career was going to finish, and later? Obviously at first people did not thought about it, and then he had a good image and the people did not care much. He went to a private center, they gave to him a title and everything solved. He chose Noos, probably because as counselor of companies it was not enought and because in the Olympian Committee it did not work. Since he left the sport, his work life was confusing.

Jaime had not a great career, but he belonged to a noble family with old relations with the Royal Family. So he was very appropriate, and the connections would provide to him a good work. He started working as counselor of diverse companies and in a foundation.

What you mention of Letizia, is one of many stories, not really relevant. She was 31 and already had a serious career in which she had worked since young (she received a prize as the best journalist younger than 30). She had been working 3 years in the public television (and before in CNN spain), before working on the evening news she was a familiar face. Not only she worked covering news, she had also been in the news in the morning, in Informe Semanal (a program of reporting very important that has been for decades on TV) and was the star of a special program in 2001 to inform the Spanish on the euro (there her face began to be known, and she dind´t knew the prince). She had a job with future (the other anchors were 8 or 10 years older), and recent news on wages in the public television demonstrate that economically she could have lived quite well. She was the only one who had completed a university education and had a serious profession and future, before the wedding.
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  #213  
Old 01-09-2012, 01:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade View Post
I think it has to do with the fact that Inaki was kind of serving Spain in his own right by being part of the Olympic team, a famous and successful handballer (as famous as handballers can get) who got his position through his achievements and hard work (nobody can become a team member through connections at this level). It takes some discipline, talent and effort to get where Inaki got in his sports career, therefore he had a bonus from the start. Plus he is handsome, from Catalonia, he ticked all the likable boxes.

Both Jaime and Letizia were seen as social climbers (more so than Inaki), with Jaime being an akward person and lots of rumours surrounding Letizia, including that she only made it as TVE anchor because of Felipe's interference (6 weeks prior to the engagement the aim was to make her face familiar to the Spanish public and to enhance her CV).

Inaki never came across as social climber, ambitious or calculating since he reached the pinnacle of his career - a career of hard physical work - without the help of the royal house.
That's not true. Inaki had always been seen as a bigger social climber than Jaime at the time of their marriage, most of people in Spain knew that Inaki dumped his long-term girlfriend to marry an infanta. Jaime was from an old aristocratic family, pretty good looking before the stroke, he was seen a much suitable husband candidate for an infanta. Most of the cynical ones were those who thought Elena was very ugly and intellectual challenging, they automatically assumed that Jaime married her for the infanta status. Of course, later their marriage failed, Jaime was getting more unfair criticism and being blamed more for the failed marriage although it usually took two to tango.
Felipe is in a different league from his sisters since he is the direct heir to the throne. Some old fashioned monarchists expected him to marry a royal, some aristocratic families were hoping he married one of their own. Letizia has been scrutinized a lot more than Inaki, of course with many rumors or lies. Letizia was the only one among the 3 with formal college and graduate degrees, she had hosted weekly news, morning news, afternoon news, working as correspondent for world big events such as Bush-Gore election, 911 anniversary, Prestige sinking in Galicia, Iraq war, she had been to more Latin American submits than Felipe, to say she only became a TVE anchor because of Felipe was a total lie. According to her former boss, she got her evening news anchor job in June (a normal time TVE decides the programs of the next season) before her relation became really serious with Felipe. Even if she didn't become the most prime time news anchor at that time, she would still have a much better and lasting professional career than a handball star. In fact it's not difficult for a pretty and successful news anchor to marry a rich and successful man, if not, she still had her own career and paycheck to fall back to. I think if Felipe were only an Infante, nobody would be criticizing Letizia either, she probably would have been seen as an only person in the family who made a good living based on her own merit .

Here is a video of Letizia hosting Euro program in 2001. There were few that doubted she was destined to success as a TV journalist with good look, good voice and good journalist skills.

La princesa Letizia nos engañó, pues el euro nos empobreció. (VIDEO DE CUANDO TRABAJABA EN TELEVISIÓN ESPAÑOLA)
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  #214  
Old 01-09-2012, 02:07 AM
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Originally Posted by lula View Post
Iñaki was a sportsman, of a minority sport, but as every sportsman his sports career was going to finish, and later? Obviously at first people did not thought about it, and then he had a good image and the people did not care much.
I agree with what you say, but I was only talking about Inaki's public image during his sports career and when he married Cristina, not afterwards.

Quote:
donnaK Even if she didn't become the most prime time news anchor at that time, she would still have a much better and lasting professional career than a handball star.
I did not try to downplay Letizia's career, not at all. I am sure she would have gotten to the top of her profession without Felipe, but since the rumour about the specific time when she got the job is out there, I mentioned it. Even if it was true, I would not expect anyone from TVE to admit Despite all the critizism, there are still media outlets that are courting the royals and doing some favours, hence the amount of events and awards that is devoted to them

Back to Inaki - it all went downhill from AFTER his career what could have been avoided with a bit of common sense, that is the sad part.
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  #215  
Old 01-09-2012, 04:07 AM
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Living in Ireland I am not very au-fait as to how the Spanish press or people have felt about Inaki, Letizia or Jaime.

However, I think that you make an interesting point. If, as you say, it had been Jaime or Letizia (whom the press appear to criticise a lot) the anger would have been great but with it would come the attitude "sure, what do you expect". ?

With Inaki it may be a case of - great anger and great disappointment. ? That might be harder for the Royal Family to deal with, if Inaki is guilty and is found to be so.
At this stage I am still thinking "innocent until proven guilty".
I doubt Spaniards would equate opinion based frivolous and superficial criticism (fashion, cosmetic, family relation and etc) on Jaime and Letizia to embezzling public money accused by the judge on Inaki. Anyone in the family did what Inaki had done would have caused huge anger and disappointment in Spain right now IMO, the more they are close to the throne, the more damage would be, if Sofia or Letizia did what Inaki had done, very likely it would bring down the monarchy since one is the queen, the other is the future queen. Cristina is far from the throne, what Inaki had done did cause damage to the monarchy, but not enough to bring it down in the near or mid term, nobody knows what is going to happen in the long term anyway.

It said in the media Prince Felipe had held many meetings and dinners with the politicians and journalists the last few months regarding Inaki's business problems, all of them told him to get rid of Inaki (and Cristina too) sooner than later. Between Sofia's sympathy for the couple and JC's hesitation on punishing his own daughter might bring further damage to the monarchy IMO. I don't know how long the media would widely complain about that Inaki still enjoys the security protection of the State (that costs much more money from the tax payers than Cristina's salary from her father) and used them to scold the paparazzi.
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  #216  
Old 01-09-2012, 12:32 PM
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The scandal of the Spanish royal family continues
Billed-Bladet - Skandalen i det spanske kongehus fortsætter

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  #217  
Old 01-09-2012, 01:35 PM
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Re: The removal of Inaki's figure from the royal section of the wax museum - would the decision to do so have been made solely by the person in charge of the museum or has it been instigated on the order or advice of King Juan Carlos. ?

Also, thanks to everyone who made replies to my previous post.
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Old 01-09-2012, 02:02 PM
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I have looked back through this thread, and what I am about to say has apparently not yet been posted, so here goes!

When I was much younger, there was the most tremendous scandal that engulfed the Dutch Royal Family. Actually, to be strictly accurate, there were a whole series of scandals. These all involved Prince Berhard. There were claims of commecial bribery, illegitimate children, even alleged SS membership. Although I was quite young at the time, I can remember that even in England people were quite shocked. A Dutch couple who were our neighbours - and I should say quite sensible and non-sensationalist people - told us that they feared that it would prove to be a body-blow for the Dutch Monarchy. Especially when most - if not all of the allegations - proved to be true....

Yet look what happened. Nothing. Or rather, no body-blow was dealt to the monarchy in the Netherlands, which seems to have gone on from strength to strength... I expect that there are even members of TRF here who have not heard of all the troubles engulfing the Dutch Royal Family back in the 1970's....


And, IMHO, I suspect that this will be the case here. For a start, we don't know how the criminal aspect will 'pan out' - it's innocent until proved guilty, I presume. And then, even if the worst comes to the worst, it is NOT the monarch at fault, and so I expect that things will return to an even keel and possibly reasonably quickly.

Only my thoughts,

Alex
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  #219  
Old 01-09-2012, 02:11 PM
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Re: The removal of Inaki's figure from the royal section of the wax museum - would the decision to do so have been made solely by the person in charge of the museum or has it been instigated on the order or advice of King Juan Carlos. ?

Also, thanks to everyone who made replies to my previous post.
The Museum of Wax of Madrid is a little private museum, the wax figures are very bad, it is not Madame Tussauds...it is not an important museum.
The owner only wants to obtain advertising and does this type of things, and calls for the press and creates absurd spectacles. When the divorce, also he did similar things with Jaime de Marichalar's sculpture.
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Old 01-09-2012, 02:18 PM
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The Museum of Wax of Madrid is a little private museum, the wax figures are very bad, it is not Madame Tussauds...it is not an important museum.
The owner only wants to obtain advertising and does this type of things, and calls for the press and creates absurd spectacles. When the divorce, also he did similar things with Jaime de Marichalar's sculpture.
Very interesting. He is a bit of a show-man. Thanks, lula.
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