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  #121  
Old 07-23-2013, 03:41 PM
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Originally Posted by NGalitzine View Post

Can you provide a source/link to prove that statement? I have never read of them ever commenting on their childrens titles beyond the initial statement from BP at the time of their marriage.
I've never read either of them saying as such - and if you read through some of the older posts on this page it seems to imply that the issue is unclear.

It's unclear whether or not Louise and James are entitled to use the HRH but don't because of the will of their parents, or if the Queen expressing her Will stating that they will be styled as the children of an Earl was enough to strip them of their HRHs.

What I think is likely is they don't actually have an HRH - they have been stripped of the title by the Queen's Will - but HM was intentionally vague on that matter so that if they ever come to her or Charles (as an adult) and say "Granny/Uncle Charles, I want to be a Prince(ss)" then the monarch's Will can be made known that they will be styled as such.
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  #122  
Old 07-23-2013, 03:41 PM
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Thanks Gracie but I will hold out for a reliable news source on this one. Not saying you are wrong just looking for a reliable UK news source. Even if true I very much doubt either child would be silly enough to adopt the title and style if they did not need to.
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  #123  
Old 07-23-2013, 03:44 PM
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Oh, I can never see Louise or James waking up as adults and saying, "you know, I'm going to dust off that HRH," which is the only thing that would lead to possible litigation on the issue.

It's one of those legal issues which is nebulous right now. Legal issues often are.

So on whether James and Louise are legally HRHs; I don't know and neither do you.
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  #124  
Old 07-23-2013, 03:49 PM
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Originally Posted by GracieGiraffe View Post
So on whether James and Louise are legally HRHs; I don't know and neither do you.
I think only the Queen knows. Maybe the Wessexes and other family members, but not likely.

Yeah.. I'm going with only the Queen knows.
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  #125  
Old 07-23-2013, 04:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Homme View Post
Gun salutes are fired for the birth of every prince or princess, no matter where their place is in the line of succession, the Ministry of Defense said today (re Baby Cambridge). The last royal salute for a birth was for Princess Eugenie in 1990.
If James and Louise are still a prince and princess, why no gun salutes for them?
Because they're being treated like the children of an Earl, not like royals.
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  #126  
Old 07-23-2013, 04:52 PM
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Originally Posted by BelleMia View Post
Both Sophie and Edward have stated that their children can retain their HRH when they become of age if they choose too and further this effects no future HRHs

Please provide a link to this statement.

I have been following the royals for over 50 years and the only thing I have ever heard/read on this is that there is some debate about whether of not The Queen's will being made known is all that is required to remove or give a title.

I have never seen anything from Edward and/or Sophie that says that the children retain the HRH when they come of age.
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  #127  
Old 07-24-2013, 02:11 PM
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Someone just asked a question and I hadn't ever thought about it before. Will Louise and James be allowed to vote when they become 18? If we are to believe they are legally HRH, then they are not allowed to vote?

Am I right in saying that any of those in the BRF who are titled HRH have no ability to vote?
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  #128  
Old 07-24-2013, 02:16 PM
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Someone just asked a question and I hadn't ever thought about it before. Will Louise and James be allowed to vote when they become 18? If we are to believe they are legally HRH, then they are not allowed to vote?

Am I right in saying that any of those in the BRF who are titled HRH have no ability to vote?
HRHs are allowed to vote, they chose not to because doing so removes their political neutrality. With the exception of the Queen, any family member can vote but chose not to. I would suspect that the same will happen with the Wessex children.
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  #129  
Old 07-24-2013, 02:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Molly2101 View Post
Someone just asked a question and I hadn't ever thought about it before. Will Louise and James be allowed to vote when they become 18? If we are to believe they are legally HRH, then they are not allowed to vote?

Am I right in saying that any of those in the BRF who are titled HRH have no ability to vote?
I think the only legal limits to who can vote are the Queen and the Prince of Wales. Technically the rest of the royal family can vote, but choose not to.
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  #130  
Old 07-24-2013, 05:21 PM
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Until 1999 the peers of the realm couldn't vote for the House of Commons as they had a seat in the House of Lords - the distinction between a commoner and a peer - so ALL members of the royal family can now vote but choose not to do so.

All of them can vote - even The Queen but they chose not to do so:

http://www.royal.gov.uk/MonarchUK/Qu...andvoting.aspx

Although the law relating to elections does not specifically prohibit the Sovereign from voting in a general election or local election, it is considered unconstitutional for the Sovereign and his or her heir to do so.

Legally they can all vote but they don't because there are questions about whether it is constitutional for them to do so - so to find out if it was constitutional or not one of them would have to try to vote and test the legal and constitutional situation - they won't do that and thus accept the fact that they don't have a right available to every other citizen.

The rest of them choose not to vote but are legally able to do so.
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  #131  
Old 10-22-2013, 11:46 PM
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I can't imagine that will ever happen. I do hope that Charles will recreate the Duke of Edinburgh title for Edward, as was promised to him by the Queen and Prince Philip. Louise will likely never inherit a Peerage and I doubt she will choose to use her HRH title when she turns 18. I think she'll want to live a normal life, even though being referred to as Lady Louise isn't exactly "normal". James, no matter if he chooses to not use his HRH title, will always have more association with the family than his sister as the Duke of Edinburgh title will have famous history behind it and he will always be associated with his grandfather.

Someone said on another Royal website that in many, many years to come we will see James, Duke of Edinburgh as he'll be most likely be styled that way by then, attending the funeral of the Queen Catherine, the Queen Mother and people will say he is the youngest grandchild of the late Queen Elizabeth II. He'll have a lot to live up to with the title as his grand father is quite a character!
I think that is what annoys me so much about Edward and Sophie removing their titles. James will still get a prestigious title or titles and as a modern woman I think (hope) I would have not agreed with Edward when I saw where it will leave my daughter.

Further Edward and Sophie are living in fantasy land (sorry American expression) what exactly was the title change actually supposed to do or accomplish. James and Louisa are still who they are by birth and the world knows it - why play pretend .

The idea that somehow changing their titles makes them "ordinary people" is ludicrous - they are still the grandchildren of a queen, the nephews and neice and cousins of 2 future kings and the still belong to the most famous royal family in the world with a storied history going back centuries.

They were born "different" as God seemed to want it - suck it up and deal with it. jmo
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  #132  
Old 11-17-2013, 02:43 PM
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On another thread it was said that now that Lady Louise is 10 years old she will no longer be a royal child, Im not understanding that. Can someone please explain? She is afterall the daughter of a Prince. Confusing.
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  #133  
Old 11-17-2013, 03:15 PM
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Originally Posted by LadyGabrielle View Post
On another thread it was said that now that Lady Louise is 10 years old she will no longer be a royal child, Im not understanding that. Can someone please explain? She is afterall the daughter of a Prince. Confusing.
Age has nothing to do with her being royal. Lady Louise will be royal all her life, whether she chooses to use the title Princess might be up to her when she turns 18.
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  #134  
Old 11-17-2013, 03:21 PM
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It's debated whether or not the Wessex children royal at all because the way in which their titles were announced doesn't make it clear if this is a case of them using a lesser title instead, or if it's them being stripped of the greater title.

That said, Louise turning 10 does nothing to change it. She is no more or less royal at 10 than she was at 9. She will remain in this unclear title spot until such time as either she begins to use her greater title, the monarch makes it clear she does not hold a greater title, or LPs are issued changing who has and who does not have the greater title in general.
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  #135  
Old 11-17-2013, 03:39 PM
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I suspect that it is the word 'child' rather than royal that has changed - she is now a 'tween' rather than a 'child' having turned 10.

Whether she is 'royal' like William, Harry, Beatrice and Eugenie or just a member of the royal family like Peter and Zara comes down to the interpretation of the announcement in 1999 - which never suggested that she or James ever could let alone would take the styles of HRH Prince/Princess.

The Queen's will has been made known and that is enough for many people.
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  #136  
Old 11-17-2013, 04:20 PM
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She is aristocratic young lady with close royal connections. A lady and granddaughter of a queen will never be on the level of a Savannah or Ilsa Philips.
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  #137  
Old 11-17-2013, 10:20 PM
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Savannah and Isla Philips are great-granddaugthers of a Queen -without any titles due to the sexist nature of British titles and nothing else.

Louise is called - Lady - while her first cousin - equally a granddaughter of The Queen, Zara, is simply a Miss as she comes from a girl and not a boy.
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  #138  
Old 11-17-2013, 11:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
Savannah and Isla Philips are great-granddaugthers of a Queen -without any titles due to the sexist nature of British titles and nothing else.

Louise is called - Lady - while her first cousin - equally a granddaughter of The Queen, Zara, is simply a Miss as she comes from a girl and not a boy.
Zara and Peter don't have any titles because their father chose to not receive a title upon his marriage - otherwise they would be more than Mrs. and Mrs. as well. Likewise, if Mark Phillips had been given a title, Savannah and Islam would likely have titles as well.
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  #139  
Old 11-17-2013, 11:53 PM
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Mark Phillips would have been made an earl, and therefore his son would be a viscount and his daughters "honorables," same as Linley's children. Zara's children would still be mr/miss.

British titles are indeed sexist, but I think Anne capitalized on it and raised her children as normally as possible, and lack of titles was all part of that normalcy.
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  #140  
Old 11-18-2013, 12:53 AM
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Zara and Peter don't have any titles because their father chose to not receive a title upon his marriage - otherwise they would be more than Mrs. and Mrs. as well. Likewise, if Mark Phillips had been given a title, Savannah and Islam would likely have titles as well.

I am fully aware of why Peter and Zara don't have titles - that doesn't change the fact that Zara is equally a granddaughter of The Queen - not a Princess or a Lady though. The reason for her not having one of those titles by right is because her descent is through a girl and not a boy - simple sexism.

One day the BRF will actually decide to do something about that - and the thin edge of the wedge is already there with Louise and James not being Princess and Prince.

I can see the day when only the children of the eldest child of the monarch has any titles and all others are simply Miss and Mr - if it is good enough for the children of girls then it is good enough for the children of boys as well.
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