Sophie Gives Birth to a Son: James, Viscount Severn - December 17, 2007

[CasiraghiTrio]

i'm curious as to where the title Viscount Severn comes from and why it's used in reference to the new baby.

All I know is that the viscounty Severn is the subsidary title of the Earldom of Wessex. Edward is Earl of Wessex and Viscount Severn, and his heir can be styled by courtesy as the Viscount Severn.

But I don't know where the Severn title comes from. The Wessex title comes from pre-Conquest (that is, before 1066) times.
Wessex (or 'West Saxon') was a kingdom of ancient England. See here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wessex

 

[Stefanie]

And I still have the feeling that the reason for Louise not be seen in public or not being published (official) photos has to do with her eyes:
It´s strange that this one grandchild of the Queen is so much kept away of the public eye. Even Anne´s children have been (officially) photographed more often when they were infants. Not to forget that there was a photo session when Louise was just a few weeks old and her eye-illness couldn´t be seen yet or so. Then the (only!) baptism photo was kind of blurred on purpose.
It was often mentioned in the past months that she had an eye-surgeon and everything is o.k. now but I don´t believe that....

 

[bluestocking]

Her eyes are still crossed, regardless of whether she had surgery or not. It's possible that a premature infant could have ended up with some developmental delays. That could be a factor or it could just be that her parents do not want their kids to be photographed as much as their cousins were at a similar age. I remember reading Sophie's unguarded interview shortly after she married Edward. She expressed disapproval of Sarah Ferguson and how much she put her daughters in the public eye. "Problems, problems there," she predicted for Princesses Beatrice and Eugenie. She likely wants different for her own child. It's to her credit, actually, if Louise is unused to the press and would be frightened by the flash of a camera. A 4-year-old shouldn't have to put up with that, regardless of how much we'd like to see her pictures.

 

[CasiraghiTrio]

^ I like Sophie more and more, and now after reading your post, bluestocking, I like her more still. I like that she has the sense to know that Sarah Ferguson's mummy style is just........ to put it mildly, wack. Not that Sarah cannot love her daughters; the opposite, I feel Sarah loves them but she just over-indulges and tries to live young again through them, and she tries to be this "cool mum" hanging out with them all the time. I have known one or two mothers like this, and eventually their daughters come to resent it. So I love Sophie for being a rational mum instead, protective rather than "cool", and I am eager now to see the result. I have a strong feeling that Louise will benefit from Sophie's no-nonsense approach. But as she is just four, we must wait and see!

 

[jcbcode99]

Well said Bluestocking! And, I too echo CasiraghiTrio's sentiments regarding Sarah's mummy style as being "Wack"! (GREAT choice of words, CasiraghiTrio!!)
I am so pleased that Sophie and the new baby are doing well and I'm excited that there is now an heir to Edward's title (and quite possibly the Duke of Edinburg title!) I am looking forward to learning the name of the Viscount Severn

 

[CasiraghiTrio]

^ It amazes me to think how much Edward and, especially Sophie, have grown on me. I had a prejudice against them in the early years of their marriage. I suppose I was too much influenced by the negative press regarding their careers. For the past year, it seems like I have been viewing them with a fresh pair of eyes.

I am not sure if the Hello! article was posted before. I think only the !Hola! one was posted. So here goes:
Proud parents Sophie and Edward take their son home for Christmas

 

[Hanna Regina]

What a cute little nose he has! And they will join the rest of the family at Sandringham after all. I think I know who will get all of the attention around the Christmas tree! Who cares about the presents under the tree?

 

[CourtSprite]

Many congratulations to the Earl and Countess!

 

[PrincessKoreen]

More on the title:

BBC NEWS | Special Report | 1999 | 06/99 | royal wedding | Wessex titles for Edward and Sophie

The title Viscount Severn is derived from the Welsh roots of Miss Rhys-Jones's family.

Mr Brooks-Baker said the title was "of little significance".

"Viscount Severn was used by minor members of the royal family years ago. It is an 18th Century title. There is a history of being given a secondary title so the eldest son can have it is a courtesy title," he said.

 

[CasiraghiTrio]

Thanks, PrincessKoreen. I wonder which minor royals used the Severn title in the 18th Century. I have done a little bit of searching for some clues without success.

Severn itself is a river, the largest in the UK, I think.(??)

 

[viola]

Congratulations To The Couple.

 

[ladybelline]

The baby's name is James Alexander Philip Theo!

BBC NEWS | UK | Wessex's name new baby son James
Earl and Countess of Wessex Name Baby James |Sky News|UK News

 

[kwanfan]

The baby's name is James!!!

Earl and Countess of Wessex Name Baby James |Sky News|UK News

Lovely name. Very strong, and classic.

 

[lilytornado]

Wow that is so great!
I really liked the name. Funny thing is: About a year ago I thought wouldn't it be nice if the had another little child, a boy named James? But then I thought, no, they will probably just have one child.
But then: Sophie got pregnant, then it was a boy and now it is James???
I really hope this name is true, because that would be too cool...

 

[blondie28]

BBC NEWS | UK | Wessex's name new baby son James
The baby's whole name is James Alexander Philip Theo

 

[msleiman]

who was the last royal to have the name James?

 

[sydney00]

oh never my mum said james and i answered that they will never call him like that because james is often used for butlers or so.

but nevertheless, ith sounds quite good. but who gave the name alexander?
thank oyu

 

[CasiraghiTrio]

who was the last royal to have the name James?

HAS TO be HRH? Maybe the last ROYAL to be a James was James II?

As for people related to the royals, though, there is JAMES LASCELLES and JAMES OGILVY. Ogilvy is son of an HRH, and James would be grandson of the late Princess Royal (Mary).

 

[christinacg]

Yay! I finally predicted a royal baby first name right! I love the whole name and Theo is pretty cool/trendy for a royal isn't it.

Now I have a question. Will he be called Viscount James?

 

[Claire]

Can't we call him Jamie. James is a bit adult for a cute baby

 

[CasiraghiTrio]

Like most sons of Earls, he will probably be known as The Hon. James Windsor (since like Louise, he will go by Windsor only, despite having the M-W name on his birth certificate) and Viscount Severn. I do not think it is correct to call a viscount "Viscount Name". I have seen some press calling Linley "Viscount David Linley" but I believe this is incorrect. It is most correct to say, "David, Viscount Linley" or "Lord Linley", or "James, Viscount Severn" or "Lord Severn".
But I am guessing that some press will call him "Viscount James" even if it is not technically correct form.

For some reason, it really bothers me when the press call Serena "Viscountess Serena" or "Lady Serena Linley". I mean, she isn't a Lady, is she? Her dad is a viscount so she is just The Hon. Serena, Viscountess Linley. But "Viscountess Serena" and "Viscount David" bothers me. I guess I am too sensitive to these things, though.

P.S. Jamie is a great nickname, Claire. Love it. Jamie Severn.

Ok, I have to admit, even Viscount Jamie is darling.

 

[Claire]

Jamie Severn sound like a character from Harry Potter

 

[CasiraghiTrio]

Ok, in my last post I was wrong about the Honourable style. There is a discussion of this issue on the talk page of his article at Wikipedia. It is rather confusing but if I am understanding it, he can be referred to as The Lord James Windsor, Viscount Severn.
Since his viscounty is a courtesy title, he can just be "Lord" and not (as would a substantive lord) "The Rt. Hon.".

BUT......... any more sons born to Edward and Sophie would NOT be entitled to the Lord title, because the younger sons of Earls can only be The Hon. Only the eldest son, and therefore the user of the courtesy viscounty, can be called Lord Name etc.

 

[poppy7]

Ok, in my last post I was wrong about the Honourable style. There is a discussion of this issue on the talk page of his article at Wikipedia. It is rather confusing but if I am understanding it, he can be referred to as The Lord James Windsor, Viscount Severn.
Since his viscounty is a courtesy title, he can just be "Lord" and not (as would a substantive lord) "The Rt. Hon.".

BUT......... any more sons born to Edward and Sophie would NOT be entitled to the Lord title, because the younger sons of Earls can only be The Hon. Only the eldest son, and therefore the user of the courtesy viscounty, can be called Lord Name etc.

No, that isn’t a hundred percent correct; The Rt. Hon is not used, as that refers, mainly, to people in political public life. Tony Blair, was the Rt. Hon Tony Blair, in the House of Commons, for example.

Usually the first son of an Earl is ‘Viscount such and such’, all other sons are: the Honourable such and such, or simple: The Hon. such and such, all daughters are: Lady such and such.

Given that Edward is a Prince, I sincerely doubt that any further sons will be titled: Honourable (which honestly barely denotes aristocracy). It will be a special case me thinks, after all, technically, Louise and James, are a Princess and Prince.

Something similar would happen if Prince William had children, while the Queen is still living. As the children would only be great – grandchildren of a monarch, only the first would be entitled to the ‘Prince’ title; all others would be Lord or Lady.

Viscount Linleys children are: The Hon. Charles Armstrong-Jones & The Hon. Margarita Armstrong-Jones; when he becomes The Earl of Snowdon, they will, respectively be: Viscount Linley & Lady Margarita Armstrong – Jones

If little James was really the son of Earl (as opposed to a Prince), he would simply be: James, Viscount Severn. As is, I think he will be Lord James Windsor, Viscount Severn.

 

[morhange]

Something similar would happen if Prince William had children, while the Queen is still living. As the children would only be great – grandchildren of a monarch, only the first would be entitled to the ‘Prince’ title.

IIRC, it's only the first son who gets the Prince title, right? If William's first child were to be a daughter while QEII was still living, she'd be Lady NN Windsor, I think. It would only be the eldest son who gets the title of HH (or would it be HRH?) Prince NN of (insert William's ducal title here) Or maybe I'm mixing things up? Is the the eldest child no matter what, or whoever the heir is? So if he had a daughter first, would she be HH Princess until she had a brother, at which point she'dbecome a Lady? Or would it just be the eldest son?

 

[Shadiyah2086]

Congrats to the family!! I like James my managers baby is named James

 

[poppy7]

IIRC, it's only the first son who gets the Prince title, right? If William's first child were to be a daughter while QEII was still living, she'd be Lady NN Windsor, I think.

Yeah only the first son: given the succession rights at the moment in the UK (that they largely discount women). The Queen was never hier apparent (as Charles is), she was always the heiress Presumptive. i was kind of working under the assumption that the first child would be a boy (me bad).

It would only be the eldest son who gets the title of HH (or would it be HRH?) Prince NN of (insert William's ducal title here) Or maybe I'm mixing things up? Is the the eldest child no matter what, or whoever the heir is? So if he had a daughter first, would she be HH Princess until she had a brother, at which point she'dbecome a Lady? Or would it just be the eldest son?

No your right, the first son would be Prince NN Montbatten - Windsor. If the first child was a girl she would be Lady NN Montbatten - Windsor.

I am not sure about the HRH vs. HH stuff though.

In all likelihood though this really wouldn't be allowed to happen; there would be some slight change made in the law, as there was when Charles was born, to enable all children to have the Prince/Princess Title

 

[CasiraghiTrio]

No, that isn’t a hundred percent correct; The Rt. Hon is not used, as that refers, mainly, to people in political public life. Tony Blair, was the Rt. Hon Tony Blair, in the House of Commons, for example.

No, you misunderstood me. If you look more carefully at my last sentence in my last post, I said he would NOT be The Rt. Hon.

I agree with you that it is logical he will be The Hon. James Windsor, Viscount Severn, as I indicated, or tried to express before. I meant that as eldest son of an Earl, he is The Hon. and Lord James, but any future sons would only be The Hon. (not Lord). Only James can be Lord etc. At least that seems to be what the Wikipedians are saying.

 

[poppy7]

No, you misunderstood me. If you look more carefully at my last sentence in my last post, I said he would NOT be The Rt. Hon.

I agree with you that it is logical he will be The Hon. James Windsor, Viscount Severn, as I indicated, or tried to express before. I meant that as eldest son of an Earl, he is The Hon. and Lord James, but any future sons would only be The Hon. (not Lord). Only James can be Lord etc. At least that seems to be what the Wikipedians are saying.

He isn't: The Hon. anything; that is a completely separate title (although the Rt Hon is used in the House of Lords for such people). Technically, the eldest son of an Earl would never go by the title Lord, simply Viscount NN. I doubt, in Edwards case, that any further sons will be titled anything other than, Lord.

Actually the news over here is indicating that he won’t be Lord James, but rather, James Windsor, Viscount Severn; this would be inline with the eldest sons, of other, non – royal Earls. Viscount Linley, isn't Lord David, just David, Viscount Linley. Although, he is Lord David Armstrong Jones technically, also.

Honourable isn’t part of his title, and the Rt. Hon certainly isn’t

 

[CasiraghiTrio]

Poppy, children of viscounts and below (baron, etc. on downward) are The Honourable. Sons of Earls are also The Honourable. Daughters of Earls and above are Ladies.
Viscount Linley's children, both of them, the girl and the boy, are The Hon.
The talk page on Wikipedia: Viscount Severn is what confused me. Because they discussed the possibility that the ELDEST SON of an Earl is a Lord, while the younger sons are just The Hon. That is something I didn't know before.