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  #141  
Old 08-19-2011, 03:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Charlotte1 View Post
Never mentioned the word 'jealous'..
Sorry; I inferred this from your earlier post about 'green eyes', which I took in the English way as referring to jealousy.

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But the first paragraph, again it's your opinion, she's not living with humility. I would say she is since she's had to make that excruciating Oprah documentary (complete with reediting since the first version was 'too boring') because she needed the money. Pre fake sheik expose, she was pouring what money she had (her fee from the Young Victoria film, she was executive producer and income from her children's books) to propping up Hartmoor. She certainly learnt humility when she was booked for public speaking engagements in a tent in the middle of winter in Canada. (all to earn money to keep herself afloat) And then there's the very public humiliation of the whole expose and the constant rehashing as she's doing PR to try and sell her book. There is a certain amount of humble pie involved, I've watched a number of her recent interviews, including the Australian 60 minutes and she's certainly not loving having to relive what she did in the past.
I suppose it is a matter of opinion as to what counts as humility. Personally, and this is of course only my own opinion, when I watch the excerpts on Oprah etc, I do not see any humility at all. In my humble opinion, what I see is a girl who will do and act in (almost) any way for money. To me, Sarah is so desperate for money that she will do anything within reason - for example, she did tell one interviewer that she appeared in the Oprah documentary because of the opportunity for therapy and advice from Dr Phil and Suze. Since therapy and advice would have been available to her free in the UK under our National Health Service and our Debt Counselling programmes, I rather got the impression that it was money that was driving Sarah forward, not humility. And I also think that one has to distinguish between 'humility' and 'humble behaviour': again, it is a matter of opinon, but I think that to me, living it up in a lavish, lavish place is not humble behaviour in my book, and although you are entirely correct I am sure about the source of £ for Sarah's trips ['Hello' and the like] again, I feel that humility is maintaining a low profile and not appearing in the world's expensive hotspots, regardless of who is paying. To me, it seems wrong that Sarah's staff, who were blameless, have to watch their erstwhile employer holidaying in such luxury. We hvae an English expression about 'not rubbing their noses in something' and, to me, with Sarah globetrotting in the way that she is, it is inappropriate conduct when people have suffered financially from Sarah's follies, principally her greed and mismangement.
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  #142  
Old 08-19-2011, 03:31 PM
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Sarah on the 2 occasions she got heavily in debt could have chosen the easy way out. That is declare herself bankrupt and just walk away, in that case all her creditors would have got nothing. Instead she worked and in the 1990s debt paid all the creditors, so rather than caning her for the fact her some of her creditors this time didn't get their full amount. How about acknowledging that they got some money rather than nothing. Would you feel any better had you been Edward's creditor for Ardent and only got 1p to the pound for the money you invested, or Sophie's and got nothing? And they still live in a huge estate rent free and have nice holidays. Less press follows them, but they too have a yearly ski trip, summer holidays in Italy. It's all relative, Sarah's creditors got something, which is better than nothing which is why they settled. The procedings could have gone on and they got nothing. Sarah is on holidays at the moment but how much press coverage are they receiving in the UK? None as far as I can see from the major papers at least. ..............................................................................
The free hospitality Sarah is receiving is from long time friends Paddy McNally with a house in Spain and Verbier, Richard Branson with Nekker, guy whose name I've forgotten in The Hamptions (one with private jet). Christmas time she goes to Norway to stay with the family of the guy who was rumoured to be her boyfriend for a number of years. She's sticking with a small group of people she's known for years.
Actually, in my humble opinion, had Sarah declared bankruptcy, I expect that her creditors could have done equally as well or perhaps even better with regard to money. Australian bankruptcy I know nothing about, but in England and Wales, the bankrupt's Trustee in bankruptcy then takes over most of a person's property [basically leaving you the 'tools of your trade']. Sarah would immediately have lost her collection of exquisite and valuable jewellery. The famous Louis Vuitton luggage that you have mentioned would have gone, as would her designer clothes. Such items, as well as their instrinsic vintage worth, would have had an enhanced value because of their provenance. Sarah also owns some nice items of valuable furniture apparently. Bang!! All that would have gone under the Auctioneer's hammer. But the real loss would apparently be her real estate: it is always not entirely clear what Sarah owns, but it seems that there is her mother's estancia and its lucrative polo pony breeding business, and there has been mention in the British press about an appartment in new York, property in England and in Italy. She is also reputedly the beneficiary of a portion of her late father's will; the Dummer Farmhouse and remaining land, presently the home of her stepmother Susan, has reputedly been left to Susan for life and then to Major Ferguson's children, Sarah and her sister Jane and his children by Susan. I therefore think that it was a HUGE advantage to Sarah in not declaring bankruptcy - her debts have been settled by others and her own capital apparently remains intact....

Ardent and RJ-H are different in my opinion. Prince Edward's company, as you so rightly say, went into receivership. Ditto RJ-H. But to me, the difference is that these were businesses that tried to trade. Sarah's financial woes - as wiser forum members than me have posted here - are the result of years and years of uncontrolled personal spending. As we know, Ardent was a film maker and RJ-H was a PR company. Sarah's company, Hartmoor, might well have been a victim of the recession, but the real reason for its demise must surely lie in the fact that it was UK analysts have described:- it was a flawed business model right from the start, as its 'stock in trade' was ''the Sarah brand' '', not the bona fide business of film making and PR. Hartmoor was set up in 2006 to manage Sarah's principally American-based career in publishing, media and public speaking. But, if we are really honest, Sarah may well be an excellent public speaker and she has published books and appeared on numerous TV programmes, but isn't the real reason for the public success she has met in this area her connection with Royalty? This is not to say that her books etc aren't good at times, but the point is this -other talented people have failed to get the same significant amount of exposure with their books etc and the reason for this is because Sarah has her 'royal profile', and that is why there was always this flaw in Hartmoor's operation: as every year passes, Sarah's connection with Royalty diminishes; she married in 1986 and separated in 1992; she has been separated and divorced from Andrew for nearly 20 years - there is a limit to how 'Royal' she can be; IMHO she does what she can to 'promote' her 'connection' with Royalty, whether it is calling herself 'The Duchess of York' on her business cards, clutching the hands of her unfortunate grown-up daughters, stressing that she is living in 'Royal Lodge' and about her 'closeness to Andrew' and her Admiration of 'The Top Lady' [The Queen]. But the fatal flaw is always there and Hartmoor was always going to be ultimately vulnerable to this: Sarah is no longer royal and her connection to the Royal Family diminishes with every passing week and indeed the stage is now set for the following generation: Catherine and William. And IMHO, it is obvious who America has now taken to their hearts the most, regardless of Sarah's bleeding-heart pronouncements. And as for Sarah's chance of being taken seriously as a business professional: what savvy business professional admits that she has not the faintest idea of elementary financial basics - the famous recent declaration by Sarah that she has never understood money..........?

And as for holidays: I still think that Edward and Sophie's Portuguese bucket-and-spade holiday was far less lavish than Sarah's jaunts... and let me say again, I still have a continuing unease about the amount of benefit her well-heeled 'hosts' derive from visits by the holidaying Sarah and her two Royal 'meal-tickets'; for a start, Branson is charming, but his Necker Island is a commercially run enterprise - I suppose 'haunt of Royalty' looks ok when spouted by the realtor dealing with the vaction rental of the property......... And she is certainly putting a 'Royal Stamp' on Sotogrande!!
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  #143  
Old 08-19-2011, 03:31 PM
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Did you bother to read who paid for the many trips Sarah has done this year? The latest one was to Argentina for the Hello photo spread, Hello magazine paid for that one. The various trips in the US and Canada were all paid for by the Oprah network since it involved work on her TV series. Here's where the distortion comes in, how dare Sarah travel the world! What with? Well she was paid for the Oprah documentary and presumably paid an advance for her book as well so she has been earning money. TV appearances are also paid, public speaking engagements the travel expenses are part of the deal as well. So along with the friends who provide the free travel comes the travel where she is working.
I have answered much of this already but will say again that I think it would have been infinintely more classy for Sarah to have been maintaining a lower profile when it comes to 'Hello'. I just do not think that maintaining a high public profile to generate money is an appropriate career - she is just continually trying to cash in on her once-royal status.


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She's certainly not sitting infront of the TV eating bonbons!
I have to answer this with a joke - I am sure that I am not the only member of TRF who saw Sarah being chauffered in the back seat of a Limo past Buckingham Palace popping sweetie after sweetie [candy] into her not-so-little mouth! It reminded me of the story that the papers published when Sarah lost her Weightwatchers contract. Sarah's alleged reason was that she wanted to move on with her career; Weightwatchers apparently were concerned that she actually did not really seem to be representative of a weight-loss success story!!


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Sunninghill Park was given to Andrew and Sarah as a wedding gift. The site was originally one which had a house that was supposed to be for the newly wed Elizabeth and Philip. The house burnt down before the could move in and lay derelict, sometime after they were married the Queen handed over the land (fair enough crown estate land) to them and the house was built as a wedding gift. They didn't pay for the house the Queen did, but the house belonged to them both. (even if the land didn't) Part of her divorce settlement Sarah had to sign over her claim to the house (afterall it was on crown land), she was to be compensated in that a house was to be bought and placed in Beatrice and Eugenie's names. This house was never bought. When Andrew wanted to sell Sunninghill Park (since he was given the use of Royal Lodge after the Queen Mother's death) then it was removed from crown land so he could sell it and make money from it, but the house originally belonged to them both.
A very interesting point Charlotte, but in fact, however much we all like to think otherwise, Sarah NEVER had any legal interest in Sunninghill's legal title. You are certainly correct that the house is described as a wedding gift to Andrew and Sarah - this is the way that the Royal family 'works' - houses that are described as 'wedding gifts' to the non-royal spouse are in fact never conveyed into their name. This was first seen in respect of the Queen's children when Gatcombe Park was 'given to Princess Anne and Mark Philips' by the Queen as a 'wedding gift'. But poor old Mark Philips NEVER had any legal interest in the property, which was put into the name of Anne alone [source; The Times]

The above is not meant to offend. I do not dislike Sarah at all; I have met her in a social context many times over the past 30 years from long before she got married to Andrew. I just wish that she tried to find a way - in conjunction with her family if necessary - of trying to find a less-controvsial way of existing - one with NO public profile at all..........

Alex
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  #144  
Old 08-19-2011, 03:43 PM
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Please note that this is the York Family thread to discuss activities when there are more than two Yorks at an event.

That way, we don't need to discuss the most recent vacations in Sarah, Beatrice and/or Eugenie's thread. There is one central location.

Let's keep the Sarah talk in her threads, the York marriage and divorce in its own thread, etc.
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  #145  
Old 08-19-2011, 04:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlotte1
Not cynical but bitter, why begrudge Sarah the fact that she has rich friends who support her!? I don't understand the desire to be negative until you see Sarah living in a cardboard box on the Embankment. ...


...Sarah has a lavish lifestyle with much given to her for free, so the little green monsters start up, why should she get free holidays? Well that's the way it is!
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That's a very, as we say on another forum, interesting assumption on your part.

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Originally Posted by Charlotte1
... Should she say no to her friends' offers and spend her holidays in that cardboard box at the Embankment?!!

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How very dramatic. Do please provide the source wherein Diarist speaks of wishing to see Sarah "at the Embankment" - that that you have accused her in purple prose of doing so - twice. I certainly have not seen it, but perhaps you have additional sources not presently in this public domain.
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I think it's in terribly poor taste for Sarah to be galivanting 'round the globe when she's crying poor in her show and book, and I also foresee considerable difficulty as "the girls" outgrow the need for their mother to "dress" them (as she claims she wanted to do before the wedding in April.)

She can enjoy her holidays to her heart's content; it seems that she does. But she can't talk out of both sides of her mouth. "I'm so terribly innocent and put upon" she cries. Yet she's shrewdly able to swing from free holiday to free holiday, like Tarzan through the trees, grasping from freebie to freebie.

I find her antics amusing and the defense of them by her deeply devoted "fans" to be terribly overreaching. There's just so much rewriting of history and distortion of facts that it begs to be refuted. My profession as a consultant directly relates to this; I'm a hired professional skeptic, for lack of a better way to express it. And when I see shrill personal attacks amongst posters on a board like this, it tends to be wonderful smokescreen for obfuscating facts and fact-finding. Much like Sarah's tantrum on 60 Minutes!

I enjoy the discourse here and Diarist's postings.

I have always enjoyed the "hobby" of Royalty for a lot of reasons, one of which is the mathematical precision of genealogy and its far messier ramifications. One if which is that Sarah has given birth to a child who has grown up to look a heckuva lot like Queen Victoria while herself acting like the culmination of that Queen's nightmares.

Alex....IMO, Sarah's current events should include as quiet of a life as possible. IMO, if she wants to greedily swing from vine to vine on her grasping world tours, then good for her. BUT - as you say - she can't do that while stiffing the help, lying about how wrongly she was "done" to, denigrating the Queen by misrepresenting the rather fine divorce settlement and gift of a future back in 1996. It's simply disgraceful.
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  #146  
Old 08-19-2011, 08:55 PM
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I want to thank you so much Diarist for clearing up her correct title for me and for your wonderful insights. It always bothers me when she is referred to as The Duchess still. I do wonder if she is aware of her correct title being Madam and just doesn't want to use it or as some of us think she uses it to continue to milk her links with the RF. I think going on so many holidays free or not does not look good for anyone. Especially in these times. Sarah is just out of debt but she stiffed a lot of people who will be lucky to get one holiday this year. I like you wonder what these friends expect in return there is no such thing as a free lunch as they say. It also doesn't look good that she continues to hang on to the girls the way she does. They are all together on a holiday after most of them have all just been on a holiday. What Sarah does next will be telling I don't see her going away quietly she just needs the attention and the Oprah show did nothing but line Sarah's pockets. Not sure if there is anything she can really do it has also been clear to many that she really has very little connection with the RF except her daughters and Andrew. I do wonder if Beatrice's boyfriend is included in these holidays he has been around for awhile and actually got invited to the last wedding. The girls need to start showing up to events without Sarah tagging along it is starting to look pathetic and I agree about the Sarah wanting to dress them. Sarah isn't exactly known for her dress sense anyway and they are too old for their mum to pick out their clothes.
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  #147  
Old 08-19-2011, 09:16 PM
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In my old grandma's mind I would like to see Sarah retire from public life entirely, She could live privately at Royal Lodge, do her own cooking and housework and then start doing local charity work. Either at a hospital, daycare, library, school, literacy council etc. But privately, then she would begin to build up her own self esteem and eventually realize that she does have something to offer the world. There are always babies to be rocked, or children to be read too. Or kids in the hospital that could use entertaining .She might surprise herself.
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  #148  
Old 08-19-2011, 11:57 PM
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I second Diarist and others who appreciate the insights she shares with us. Please, Diarist, keep them coming!

As for those who support and excuse the behaviour of Sarah, Duchess of York: I cannot. I do feel a sense of pity for her.

But she was reasonably well educated, had been exposed to the royal family through her father's work for the Queen, and one could assume that she should be/have been smart enough, and aware enough, to understand the damage her outre and often wretched behaviour could do to her husband, her daughters, her Queen and her country. Viewed from that perspective, it is wrong to make any excuses for her. One could "forgive" her, but then she betrays her lack of sense by continuing her endless rounds of thoughtless, embarrassing and disgraceful actions. She NEEDS to STOP and maintain a very low profile for about five years; she should do many acts of kindness and selflessness for those less fortunate than she; stop going on expensive vacations; wear clothing that is understated and conservative, smile, stop her conspicuous consumption -- and above all: STOP talking to and confiding in the press and/or television personalities.

And finally, why is it that does she not understand this?
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  #149  
Old 08-20-2011, 12:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Meadow View Post
I want to thank you so much Diarist for clearing up her correct title for me and for your wonderful insights. It always bothers me when she is referred to as The Duchess still. I do wonder if she is aware of her correct title being Madam and just doesn't want to use it or as some of us think she uses it to continue to milk her links with the RF. I think going on so many holidays free or not does not look good for anyone. Especially in these times. Sarah is just out of debt but she stiffed a lot of people who will be lucky to get one holiday this year. I like you wonder what these friends expect in return there is no such thing as a free lunch as they say. It also doesn't look good that she continues to hang on to the girls the way she does. They are all together on a holiday after most of them have all just been on a holiday. What Sarah does next will be telling I don't see her going away quietly she just needs the attention and the Oprah show did nothing but line Sarah's pockets. Not sure if there is anything she can really do it has also been clear to many that she really has very little connection with the RF except her daughters and Andrew. I do wonder if Beatrice's boyfriend is included in these holidays he has been around for awhile and actually got invited to the last wedding. The girls need to start showing up to events without Sarah tagging along it is starting to look pathetic and I agree about the Sarah wanting to dress them. Sarah isn't exactly known for her dress sense anyway and they are too old for their mum to pick out their clothes.
I'd throw in a year's worth of doughnuts for Diarist too if I had them. Its been said that when the student is ready, the teacher will appear" and for a lot of us Diarist has been just that. She's been there, done that and knows the ropes to get around the proverbial obstacle course and is generous in giving us her insights. (and as she states something that a lot of us could do more of too is state where its her opinion) Thanks Alex!

I also didn't realize that the proper title was Madam. I actually thought that ahem... them kinds of Madam were called that these days. Shows what I know. The more I've been thinking about Sarah's title is that perhaps The Duchess in our common ordinary language is used is because until Andrew remarries, she is the only one with the title? We all mess up on the "proper" usages. Even as a married woman, I cringe when my name isn't used in an address. Mrs. John Smith gives me the shivers. Its the changing times. I do however see Sarah using The Duchess of York as a way of acclaiming importance that she really has no right to. It is that usage that tells me that she needs to let go and find something that can be connected to her, that she can claim as her own. She has it but hasn't really done much to use it.

You're right about no such thing as a free lunch. Here's an example. Sarah goes to Richard Branson's Nekker Island right? We know Beatrice and Dave are together and he works for Branson's Virgin right? (see Zonk.. I'm keeping it on topic with throwing in a bit of other Yorks ). So.. Nekker Island has the connotation of a posh spot to go! Guess what? We could all go there for a week! Necker Island - Guest services. So, there it is.. the word is out now on TRF. I'd have to give up doughnuts for the rest of my life to afford it but.. I could. That's the publicity the Nekker Island vacations get in the tabloids and gets people thinking... oooh nice place. Commercialism at its best. Until I checked it out.. I thought it was Branson's own private island for his own use and she was staying in his house. Sheesh.. learn as you go right?

Sarah does have something and with her daughters now that they're going to be in the private sector could work wonders for Children in Crisis, the charity that Sarah founded back in 1993 (thanks Iluvbertie) Should they go gung ho and focus on that, I think it'd really make a big difference. It'd lend the "royal" flavor to something that is worthwhile and get away from all the negative press that is more harm than good.

On a side note and kind of an amusing thought to me is that on the subject of Sarah being called the Duchess of York, perhaps in her own private moments, she's cackling and saying "fix THAT you ornery men in grey!"
She never really did like them did she?
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  #150  
Old 08-20-2011, 01:03 AM
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In my old grandma's mind I would like to see Sarah retire from public life entirely, She could live privately at Royal Lodge, do her own cooking and housework and then start doing local charity work. Either at a hospital, daycare, library, school, literacy council etc. But privately, then she would begin to build up her own self esteem and eventually realize that she does have something to offer the world. There are always babies to be rocked, or children to be read too. Or kids in the hospital that could use entertaining .She might surprise herself.
You just gave me a thought too. One thing I really can see in the future is Sarah being very much a doting grandmother. Them kids are going to grow up on "Little Red" I love it! She'll make a wonderful one I bet too. As much that has been said about Sarah using her daughters, there's a lot about the closeness that entire family has that is wonderful to watch.
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  #151  
Old 08-20-2011, 02:39 AM
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Osipi, don't tell me you want Sarah in a guiding role as a grandmother! In Starkie's book she wasn't actually the perfect mother she likes to call herself to her own daughters, she seems to find them more interesting now they are grown and she can wear clothes like them and have the good times that young people have and she feels she has missed out on.
As to your being given the title Mr John Smith (your example) that is the correct way of addressing a letter to a married woman, it gives you the shivers? It shouldn't because if you were addressed as Mrs Osipi Smith then you would be a widow.
In general I am sick of this constant harping on her doing charity work, if it were hands on nursing or taking the night round of handing out soup to the homeless, which I am fairly sure it doesn't, then I would change my mind. But when I think of Sarah doing charity work it brings to mind a very cheering chat and banter with some sufferer and then a nice thank you for the flowers and then a chauffeur driven car to take her home in time for tea after a hard day's charity work (well earned in her way of thinking).
I am sorry to say Sarah brings out the cynic in me, I don't want it to but it crops up spontaneously.
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  #152  
Old 08-20-2011, 04:16 AM
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Osipi, don't tell me you want Sarah in a guiding role as a grandmother! In Starkie's book she wasn't actually the perfect mother she likes to call herself to her own daughters, she seems to find them more interesting now they are grown and she can wear clothes like them and have the good times that young people have and she feels she has missed out on.
As to your being given the title Mr John Smith (your example) that is the correct way of addressing a letter to a married woman, it gives you the shivers? It shouldn't because if you were addressed as Mrs Osipi Smith then you would be a widow.
In general I am sick of this constant harping on her doing charity work, if it were hands on nursing or taking the night round of handing out soup to the homeless, which I am fairly sure it doesn't, then I would change my mind. But when I think of Sarah doing charity work it brings to mind a very cheering chat and banter with some sufferer and then a nice thank you for the flowers and then a chauffeur driven car to take her home in time for tea after a hard day's charity work (well earned in her way of thinking).
I am sorry to say Sarah brings out the cynic in me, I don't want it to but it crops up spontaneously.
Actually I think Sarah will be a doting grandmother.. perhaps a bit too doting but.. that's Sarah. As Beatrice and Eugenie mature, they're gonna have to learn to say "no Mom" and to be honest, I think they will. Parents need to let go. I don't see Sarah as a guiding grandmother but doting. She'll love them to death.

As her children get older and have kids of their own, there will have to be a change. Many of us see it as the "empty nest" syndrome and that's the reason I think that Sarah probably could be better off finding something that is Sarah and not attached to Andrew, the kids or Joe the Plumber down the block. Its one reason I feel that what she is doing now and has been doing is confusing self esteem with self image. Her own charity could do that for her if she wanted it to.

To be blunt, we're also facing the reality that Sarah is likely going through menopause. Its bad enough for most women but with a woman that is so in the public eye and none good, its a recipe for depression... big time. I'm surprised no one has mentioned this yet. I been there, done it and froze the hubby out of the room clutching mega blankets and it really IS the time you take a good long look at who you are and ask stupid questions like "why am I here?". Its a normal phase of life but with Sarah I saw that "me" in her when she talks about Kate and "that was me last up the aisle" kind of thing. Thing is what I thought and said perhaps wasn't in the tabloids the next day or aired on TV. Perhaps she's giving a last hurrah attempt to recapture what she once had. My bill from Oil of Old Lady shows me I did the same.

As I said before, Sarah has Children in Crisis. That could be her lifeline.

Just trying to throw some perspectives in on this.
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  #153  
Old 08-20-2011, 06:38 AM
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In Portugal the wife keeps her own name so we would get Sarah Ferguson and (here) it would not be wrong, in fact a wife can just decide not to have her husband's name at all, off subject I suppose but it is the reason that Prince William's wife is usually referred to here as Kate Middleton which sounds strange to foreign ears.
I must admit I like being called by my first name too, and nowadays gone to the same place as Esquire I suppose, as it is just a formal use limited to envelopes we can relax. LOL. . (Sorry Zonk, but I did mention Sarah).
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  #154  
Old 08-20-2011, 06:58 AM
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In Portugal the wife keeps her own name so we would get Sarah Ferguson and (here) it would not be wrong, in fact a wife can just decide not to have her husband's name at all, off subject I suppose but it is the reason that Prince William's wife is usually referred to here as Kate Middleton which sounds strange to foreign ears.
I must admit I like being called by my first name too, and nowadays gone to the same place as Esquire I suppose, as it is just a formal use limited to envelopes we can relax. LOL. . (Sorry Zonk, but I did mention Sarah).
Her royal Zonkness can probably (I'm assuming) can understand why the "proper" wording of names and titles does very much fit in with the discussion of Sarah. Diarist explains it and its like something I've never heard before. Its also a good reason why the public is still being taken in and "fooled" to believe that she is actually a Duchess of York and not a former one. There's a difference between being really royal or a peer and holding onto a title and presenting it in a way that you seem royal or a peer.

And I will refer to Diana. To her credit, she did correct those that called her Princess Diana during her marriage and afterwards. She didn't "work" the title per se. Sarah till her dying day will be Duchess of York as her main achievement unless she does realize that she is a person in her own right. That's the difference.

I am known actually by a lot of different names from over the years and going on 30 years of being hooked to a shoestring and box called a computer. i still answer to 'you there..'

My point i guess is that I hope Sarah does find out who the 'you there' is.
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  #155  
Old 08-20-2011, 07:18 AM
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Posts relating to the style of Sarah, Duchess of York should be posted http://www.theroyalforums.com/forums...es-258-49.html .
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  #156  
Old 08-20-2011, 06:23 PM
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A divorcee, actually. Widows are still "Mrs. John Smith."

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Originally Posted by expat View Post
It shouldn't because if you were addressed as Mrs Osipi Smith then you would be a widow.
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  #157  
Old 08-21-2011, 09:36 AM
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Before I launch into a rebuttal, here's an attempt to remain on topic! Sarah and her daughters are in Spain, last weekend, Eugenie and her boyfriend Jack were spotted at the polo. For the past few years they have holidayed in Spain, Andrew has previously joined them there and 2 years ago that's where Beatrice celebrated her 21st. Andrew was spotted frolicking on a yacht (also an annual holiday, as I now there have been past photos of him) he was then seen catching a flight to Scotland so he must have gone up to Balmoral.

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Originally Posted by Diarist View Post
Actually, in my humble opinion, had Sarah declared bankruptcy, I expect that her creditors could have done equally as well or perhaps even better with regard to money. Australian bankruptcy I know nothing about, but in England and Wales, the bankrupt's Trustee in bankruptcy then takes over most of a person's property [basically leaving you the 'tools of your trade']. Sarah would immediately have lost her collection of exquisite and valuable jewellery. The famous Louis Vuitton luggage that you have mentioned would have gone, as would her designer clothes. Such items, as well as their instrinsic vintage worth, would have had an enhanced value because of their provenance. Sarah also owns some nice items of valuable furniture apparently. Bang!! All that would have gone under the Auctioneer's hammer. But the real loss would apparently be her real estate: it is always not entirely clear what Sarah owns, but it seems that there is her mother's estancia and its lucrative polo pony breeding business, and there has been mention in the British press about an appartment in new York, property in England and in Italy. She is also reputedly the beneficiary of a portion of her late father's will; the Dummer Farmhouse and remaining land, presently the home of her stepmother Susan, has reputedly been left to Susan for life and then to Major Ferguson's children, Sarah and her sister Jane and his children by Susan. I therefore think that it was a HUGE advantage to Sarah in not declaring bankruptcy - her debts have been settled by others and her own capital apparently remains intact....
Ok so a little dose of reality here in regards to what assets Sarah actually has and why declaring bankrupcy (on either occasion would have seen her creditors with little or nothing)

Sarah does not own the apartment in New York, it's leased, when Hartmoor went under she couldn't keep up the rental payments and so she sublet it. In 2001 Sarah did buy an investment property in Italy with the Italian count she she seeing, the idea was to turn it into a spa and holiday resort. Nothing came of that, so I've no doubt that it was quietly sold off.
The ranch in Argentina was heavily in debt, Susan Barrantes sold half of it to Kerry Packer (Australian millionaire who played polo) it was inherited by Hector Barrantes' brother Martin (Jane and Sarah Ferguson have a share in in, but not a controlling or large share) Martin's son Rafael runs the polo ponies business, it's his business Sarah doesn't have an interest or derives an income from it. Rafael lives on the ranch, his father doesn't.

Sarah owns a great deal of exquisite jewellery, well that's would be news to her. She does own the parure that was given to her for her wedding, (tiara, necklace, bracelets) but the jewellery that she owns wouldn't be anywhere near the value of the 4 million pounds (1990s) 2 to 4 million (depending of what source you use) that would clear the debts she had. Plus any good financial advisor worth his salt would have told her to put the jewellery in someone else's name before declaring bankruptcy!
Last year when Andrew's accountant tried to sort out Sarah's finances, what assets she owned were looked at. They consisted a a Bentley car (given to her as a gift from her Norwegian millionaire) but broken down mechanically since Sarah couldn't afford to get it repaired. (Andrew repaired it for her either for Christmas or her birthday last year) And a few paintings (no mention of furniture, infact none has ever been mentioned)
Dummer Down Farm is to be inherited by her brother Andrew, he farms it currently. Wills are made public in the UK, so the press could have easily found out if Sarah were to inherit a large sum it would be public knowledge, even if she had gotten anything after his death.

Quote:
Ardent and RJ-H are different in my opinion. Prince Edward's company, as you so rightly say, went into receivership. Ditto RJ-H. But to me, the difference is that these were businesses that tried to trade. Sarah's financial woes - as wiser forum members than me have posted here - are the result of years and years of uncontrolled personal spending. As we know, Ardent was a film maker and RJ-H was a PR company. Sarah's company, Hartmoor, might well have been a victim of the recession, but the real reason for its demise must surely lie in the fact that it was UK analysts have described:- it was a flawed business model right from the start, as its 'stock in trade' was ''the Sarah brand' '', not the bona fide business of film making and PR. Hartmoor was set up in 2006 to manage Sarah's principally American-based career in publishing, media and public speaking. But, if we are really honest, Sarah may well be an excellent public speaker and she has published books and appeared on numerous TV programmes, but isn't the real reason for the public success she has met in this area her connection with Royalty?
The comparison with Ardent and RJH is relevant, Ardent was also a flawed business model, in all the years it traded it never made a profit. The only productions that it did make that made some money were the documentaries on royalty (shades of Sarah and her connections here!?) Edward also charged Ardent a rental fee for its use of the Bagshot stables as its offices, the company was loosing money but he was still milking it for what he could get. RJH got into trouble since Sophie also was accused of using her royal connections to promote the products or events from her PR company. (Her death knell was the 'fake sheik', that scandal forced her to withdraw from the day to day running of the company but she remained on the board, and I would assume received payment until 2 or 3 years ago when RJH was closed and its assets sold to cover the creditors, it didn't manage to do that)
Sarah's financial problems stemmed from Hartmoor's demise and some very bad financial advice she was given. While it may be your opinion and certainly one fueled by the tabloids that it was because of Sarah's 'uncontrolled spending' try looking at exactly what happened with Hartmoor. The business closed with $1,000,000 in debts,(it had a large number of employees and was leasing offices on Madison Ave, one of the most expensive parts of New York!) the lawyers then got involved, at any one meeting there were multiple lawyers all charging by the hour. When their bills were not paid, Sarah was then being charged interest on the bill, it then got to the stage where she was being charged interest on the interest. Her debt spiralled. I won't make the claim that Sarah is some sort of financial wizard, clearly she's not, she got bad advice, being the eternal optimist (this description from an aquaintance of mine who moves in the same circles) she believed she would set herself up financially. (John Bryant made the same claim during his 'financial advisor days!) She made a huge mistake in that she resigned from her Weight Watchers role (they confirmed it was Sarah who made the break, not the other way around). Sarah signed up with the Washington Speaker's Bureau (Her keynote speeches aren't actually about the royals, her profile included what she talks about and it's all motivational type talks) but with economic downturns, also comes downturns in conventions and conferences and companies prepared to pay large sums of money for a keynote speaker.
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  #158  
Old 08-21-2011, 09:43 AM
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Before I launch into a rebuttal, here's an attempt to remain on topic! Sarah and her daughters are in Spain, last weekend, Eugenie and her boyfriend Jack were spotted at the polo. For the past few years they have holidayed in Spain, Andrew has previously joined them there and 2 years ago that's where Beatrice celebrated her 21st. Andrew was spotted frolicking on a yacht (also an annual holiday, as I now there have been past photos of him) he was then seen catching a flight to Scotland so he must have gone up to Balmoral.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Diarist View Post
Actually, in my humble opinion, had Sarah declared bankruptcy, I expect that her creditors could have done equally as well or perhaps even better with regard to money. Australian bankruptcy I know nothing about, but in England and Wales, the bankrupt's Trustee in bankruptcy then takes over most of a person's property [basically leaving you the 'tools of your trade']. But the real loss would apparently be her real estate: it is always not entirely clear what Sarah owns, but it seems that there is her mother's estancia and its lucrative polo pony breeding business, and there has been mention in the British press about an appartment in new York, property in England and in Italy. She is also reputedly the beneficiary of a portion of her late father's will; the Dummer Farmhouse and remaining land, presently the home of her stepmother Susan, has reputedly been left to Susan for life and then to Major Ferguson's children, Sarah and her sister Jane and his children by Susan. I therefore think that it was a HUGE advantage to Sarah in not declaring bankruptcy - her debts have been settled by others and her own capital apparently remains intact....
Ok so a little dose of reality here in regards to what assets Sarah actually has and why declaring bankrupcy (on either occasion would have seen her creditors with little or nothing)

Sarah does not own the apartment in New York, it's leased, when Hartmoor went under she couldn't keep up the rental payments and so she sublet it. In 2001 Sarah did buy an investment property in Italy with the Italian count she she seeing, the idea was to turn it into a spa and holiday resort. Nothing came of that, so I've no doubt that it was quietly sold off.
The ranch in Argentina was heavily in debt, Susan Barrantes sold half of it to Kerry Packer (Australian millionaire who played polo) it was inherited by Hector Barrantes' brother Martin (Jane and Sarah Ferguson have a share in in, but not a controlling or large share) Martin's son Rafael runs the polo ponies business, it's his business Sarah doesn't have an interest or derives an income from it. Rafael lives on the ranch, his father doesn't.

Sarah owns a great deal of exquisite jewellery, well that's would be news to her. She does own the parure that was given to her for her wedding, (tiara, necklace, bracelets) but the jewellery that she owns wouldn't be anywhere near the value of the 4 million pounds (1990s) 2 to 4 million (depending of what source you use) that would clear the debts she had. Plus any good financial advisor worth his salt would have told her to put the jewellery in someone else's name before declaring bankruptcy!
Last year when Andrew's accountant tried to sort out Sarah's finances, what assets she owned were looked at. They consisted a a Bentley car (given to her as a gift from her Norwegian millionaire) but broken down mechanically since Sarah couldn't afford to get it repaired. (Andrew repaired it for her either for Christmas or her birthday last year) And a few paintings (no mention of furniture, infact none has ever been mentioned)
Dummer Down Farm is to be inherited by her brother Andrew, he farms it currently. Wills are made public in the UK, so the press could have easily found out if Sarah were to inherit a large sum it would be public knowledge, even if she had gotten anything after his death.

Quote:
Ardent and RJ-H are different in my opinion. Prince Edward's company, as you so rightly say, went into receivership. Ditto RJ-H. But to me, the difference is that these were businesses that tried to trade. Sarah's financial woes - as wiser forum members than me have posted here - are the result of years and years of uncontrolled personal spending. As we know, Ardent was a film maker and RJ-H was a PR company. Sarah's company, Hartmoor, might well have been a victim of the recession, but the real reason for its demise must surely lie in the fact that it was UK analysts have described:- it was a flawed business model right from the start, as its 'stock in trade' was ''the Sarah brand' '', not the bona fide business of film making and PR. Hartmoor was set up in 2006 to manage Sarah's principally American-based career in publishing, media and public speaking.
The comparison with Ardent and RJH is relevant, Ardent was also a flawed business model, in all the years it traded it never made a profit. The only productions that it did make that made some money were the documentaries on royalty (shades of Sarah and her connections here!?) Edward also charged Ardent a rental fee for its use of the Bagshot stables as its offices, the company was loosing money but he was still milking it for what he could get. RJH got into trouble since Sophie also was accused of using her royal connections to promote the products or events from her PR company. (Her death knell was the 'fake sheik', that scandal forced her to withdraw from the day to day running of the company but she remained on the board, and I would assume received payment until 2 or 3 years ago when RJH was closed and its assets sold to cover the creditors, it didn't manage to do that)
Sarah's financial problems stemmed from Hartmoor's demise and some very bad financial advice she was given. While it may be your opinion and certainly one fueled by the tabloids that it was because of Sarah's 'uncontrolled spending' try looking at exactly what happened with Hartmoor. The business closed with $1,000,000 in debts,(it had a large number of employees and was leasing offices on Madison Ave, one of the most expensive parts of New York!) the lawyers then got involved, at any one meeting there were multiple lawyers all charging by the hour. When their bills were not paid, Sarah was then being charged interest on the bill, it then got to the stage where she was being charged interest on the interest. Her debt spiralled. I won't make the claim that Sarah is some sort of financial wizard, clearly she's not, she got bad advice, being the eternal optimist (this description from an aquaintance of mine who moves in the same circles) she believed she would set herself up financially. (John Bryant made the same claim during his 'financial advisor days!) She made a huge mistake in that she resigned from her Weight Watchers role (they confirmed it was Sarah who made the break, not the other way around). Sarah signed up with the Washington Speaker's Bureau (Her keynote speeches aren't actually about the royals, her profile included what she talks about and it's all motivational type talks) but with economic downturns, also comes downturns in conventions and conferences and companies prepared to pay large sums of money for a keynote speaker.

Quote:
This was first seen in respect of the Queen's children when Gatcombe Park was 'given to Princess Anne and Mark Philips' by the Queen as a 'wedding gift'. But poor old Mark Philips NEVER had any legal interest in the property, which was put into the name of Anne alone [source; The Times]
The Mark Philips divorce settlement is another example of how Sarah's settlement wasn't as good. Gatcombe Park was bought in 1976, it included a large amount of farmland, Mark Philips had decided to leave the army and become a farmer. The Gatcombe acreage wasn't enough so in 1977 Anne and Mark went to buy the farm next door, Aston Farm. They didn't have the money the Queen lent it to them on a lease to buy option. Move to 1992 when the Philips divorce was finalised, Anne got to keep Gatcombe and Mark got Aston Farm, where he still lives to this day. His son Peter and family also live in a cottage on Aston Farm. Mark's settlement also included that he could continue to farm Gatcombe (although now he mainly works as an equestian consultant) and continue to derive an income from Gatcombe through shooting parties where people pay to shoot and the Horse Trials. Peter Philips is now involved in much of the organisation. Sarah didn't end up with a house of any kind, even if one had been bought it was to be in her daughters' names, she also wasn't given an option in regards to earning any kind of income.

A media career is one that she's chosen for herself, with the Oprah deal, she was paid $200,000 for (and lets be generous here, 3 to 4 months work, 2to 3 months filming, a month promoting. (I know to some it seemed longer but it was a month where she went on a variety of TV shows to promote the series) Where else would a 51 year old woman with obsolete secretarial skills earn that kind of money in 4 months? (Not to mention a woman heavily in debt!) In the early 2000s she was paid $400,000 by the US Today show to be their showbiz/royalty reporter. Her speaking engagements earned her $20,000 an engagement, that's what she charged and received. Yes she spent big but she also earned big, and she poured a lot of money into Hartmoor. And now we're back to well she lost it all. It will be interesting to see if the 'Sarah' brand is damaged in the US or not, currently she has over 27,000 followers on Twitter (it's steadily increasing, I've been checking!) and it's not all reporters!
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  #159  
Old 08-21-2011, 10:02 AM
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Charlotte1 - I think that is one of the best posts I have ever read.
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  #160  
Old 08-21-2011, 11:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Charlotte1 View Post
Yes she spent big but she also earned big, and she poured a lot of money into Hartmoor. And now we're back to well she lost it all. It will be interesting to see if the 'Sarah' brand is damaged in the US or not, currently she has over 27,000 followers on Twitter (it's steadily increasing, I've been checking!) and it's not all reporters!
Well, speaking for myself only, the "Sarah" brand is damaged in the U.S.

To explain: My first recollections of Fergie are all scandal related-ie, her appearance in the tabloids in 1992 and her later debt problems. I was about 6-7 when she and Andrew married and have no recollection of her "honeymoon period".

So, when Sarah was working to clear her debts (Weight Watchers) and doing PR (Oprah is my main memory), while I certainly didn't condone her behavior, I do remember admiring her for doing what she needed to do to get out of debt. At the time, she seemed very honest and humble about ALL of her mistakes. I didn't sense a whiny, self-pitying attitude. I also admired how she and Andrew seemed to handle themselves post-separation and divorce.

When the "cash for access" scandal hit, I was appalled and rather disgusted. My main thought was: Had she not learned ANYTHING? It also seemed worse--trading on Andrew's name for money. Then, there has been her attitude since then. I haven't sensed her being honest about the "cash for access" scandal. She hasn't seemed to really take responsibility for anything this time around. There seems to be too much for whining. Involving her daughters (I realize this was their choice, too though.) didn't do much for me.

So, from where I sit, she's pretty damaged in the U.S. I have no idea if my thoughts fit the mainstream though. Or if people even care anymore. She's pretty removed from the royals now, beyond her daughters and Andrew and the past with Diana.

I will say that Americans tend to like a good, contrite apology and to see someone just saying "I was wrong", ie- taking responsibility. People get lots of second-and third-chances around here.
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