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  #261  
Old 09-13-2011, 09:28 PM
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I had the same thoughts as you Diarist as soon as I saw Harry was there as well I thought oops! Seems like it was different times which I don't think was a mistake. Sarah just looks like a hanger on most of the people who did this were young etc Sarah stood out because of her silly behaviour her pulling faces has always annoyed me. For a fifty year old woman who has been in the public eye for as long as she has you would expect a little decorum what is cute when you are in your early twenties is a lot different then when you are in your early fifties. I really think if BP thinks Sarah is going to tag along to any public duties they want to give the girls they will simply will not do it. It is time for the girls to shine and learn things on their own. You don't see Charles with William or Harry hanging on to them. They have been doing duties by themselves for years now. BP may want to give Bea and Eugenie a role but they may have to be very vocal in the fact their mother is not welcome at any of these duties. I do think it is part of the reason BP is being very careful about the role the girls may play in the future. I think Andrew and Sarah both want the girls to be part of the firm but Charles isn't so keen. Also the cost would be something they would think about, the girls will need to be careful about any spending because like it or not they will be watched. I agree about the weddings too I think Sarah is going to want the whole royal treatment. Look at Bea's 18th it was hugely expensive and it got taken over from the party planner Sarah hired. Clearly it would have been way over budget if Sarah had free reign. I think they will need to give a budget for any wedding because Sarah would go over the top. I don't think she can help herself! Sarah needs to stop showing up with the girls it really does look pathetic and in the end it could cost them a career within the RF. The girls also need to start saying no to her! Sarah would make a meal out of any wedding and it would no doubt end up in some sort of paycheck for her.
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  #262  
Old 09-13-2011, 11:40 PM
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Psychology is not my field, either - but as they say - . When they do marry, I expect Sarah will make the absolute most of the weddings to put it mildly. I don't think she will go for a Zara style affair; these granddaughters of the Queen will have their mum expecting glass coaches and the Abbey, with the mother of the bride exuberantly in the front row with the rest of the BRF, holding hands with Andrew.

Oh, I just had a mean thought; if one or both girls have a balcony appearance at BP, I can just picture Sarah getting Andrew to reprise their own wedding day kiss. The horror!
I just have to LOL to all of this because it's exactly how I see things going and I think Her Majesty is simply bracing herself for the inevitable.

Sarah does need to back off from the spotlight, it isn't hers anymore and she'd benefit from being dignified, in the background, in nice clothes, nice jewels and a quieter life. In actual fact, Sarah doesn't NEED money. Suze Orman pointed that out in the OWN 'Finding Sarah'...Sarah only wants money and wants to live a lavish lifestyle that is beyond what Prince Andrew can afford.

And yet, I also think Sarah isn't quite that stupid and is starting to see the writing on the wall that she's past it.

I am literally on the edge of my seat for both York weddings.
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  #263  
Old 09-13-2011, 11:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Aliza View Post

Oh, I just had a mean thought; if one or both girls have a balcony appearance at BP, I can just picture Sarah getting Andrew to reprise their own wedding day kiss. The horror!
Omg, LOL! I can see that happening! Balcony or no balcony.

I wonder if Harry and the Palace knew the York sisters and their mother were even attending. The Palace arranged Harry's appearance, but Sarah arranged her appearance with her daughters. I imagine the duel agendas and Sarah popping up at events/appearances with Harry/Kate/William could raise some conflicts in the future. Imo, there's been a clear effort on the part of William/Harry (or the BP) to maintain some distance.
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  #264  
Old 09-14-2011, 12:07 AM
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Omg, LOL! I can see that happening! Balcony or no balcony.

I wonder if Harry and the Palace knew the York sisters and their mother were even attending. The Palace arranged Harry's appearance, but Sarah arranged her appearance with her daughters. I imagine the duel agendas and Sarah popping up at events/appearances with Harry/Kate/William could raise some conflicts in the future. Imo, there's been a clear effort on the part of William/Harry (or the BP) to maintain some distance.
I would say it's more BP's agenda, if there is one, to have Harry/William/Kate separate from Fergie.

Harry/William are said to like Fergie, there was MUCH conjecture in the British Press about William insisting that Sarah be invited (Source: Prince William invites royal outcast Sarah Ferguson to his wedding to Kate Middleton | Mail Online) and how his insistence was rejected.

At the 2007 Diana, Princess of Wales Memorial Concert, Sarah had a seat in the very section occupied by William and Harry. She was the only member of that Royal Family era to attend the concert. Now, that could be that none of the others (Anne, Edward, Andrew, Sophie, Charles etc) thought it appropriate to go or they weren't invited. Either way, Sarah was there with her nephews.

I don't think there's any acrimony between the Wales' and Sarah. Prince Charles attended her father's funeral, everyone forgets that one. As well, Kitty Kelley's controversial 'The Royals' paints an interesting portrait of Sarah and Charles...one in which Sarah, Diana's confidant, could see how dedicated a father Charles was and how Diana played to the sympathies of her children in such a way that Charles did not. Essentially, Sarah was more objective about Charles than it's commonly believed.
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  #265  
Old 09-14-2011, 03:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Lord_Royal View Post
I just have to LOL to all of this because it's exactly how I see things going and I think Her Majesty is simply bracing herself for the inevitable.

Sarah does need to back off from the spotlight, it isn't hers anymore and she'd benefit from being dignified, in the background, in nice clothes, nice jewels and a quieter life. In actual fact, Sarah doesn't NEED money. Suze Orman pointed that out in the OWN 'Finding Sarah'...Sarah only wants money and wants to live a lavish lifestyle that is beyond what Prince Andrew can afford.

And yet, I also think Sarah isn't quite that stupid and is starting to see the writing on the wall that she's past it.

I am literally on the edge of my seat for both York weddings.
So good to know I'm not the only one looking "forward" to both York weddings with a mixture of horror and loads of laughter. I do feel sorry for those two young Princesses, though. I'm sure they're both quite nice young ladies and they do the BRF proud, with the exception of certain choices in headgear.

Left to their own devices, I don't doubt they'd want quiet (by Royal standards) weddings. Poor Beatrice will probably carry her mobile down the aisle in case it rings with more bad news she'll need to break to her mother when they sign the Register. I get the impression somehow though, that Eugenie is more than capable of holding her own and will be the daughter to break away earlier and more thoroughly than Beatrice. Bea's soft heart is written all over her pretty face while Eugenie's beauty is more reminiscent of the late Queen Mother; lovely with a layer of steel beneath the velvet; I don't think that one suffers fools gladly.

In all seriousness, (and I know I keep making this point) I do feel terribly bad for Prince Andrew. He's been divorced for fifteen years from a woman who - cheated on him publicly, sold her story to the highest bidder twice, did a six hour Oprah special and unfortunately I could continue in this vein for quite some paragraphs without even mentioning her attempt to sell access to him for hundreds of thousands of pounds, which ultimately cost him his job - and she's still living in his house with him referring to her as his third child! He deserved a clean break and a chance to rebuild his life and to have more children, had he been so inclined. No woman alive would marry a man so entwined with an infamous first wife who takes every opportunity to shout her love for him on TV and radio and in magazines and newspapers, averring all the time that she made a mistake in divorcing him and pronouncing his love for her, as well. Not even marriage to a British Prince would entice any sane lady to tie the knot under these circumstances and it makes me both sad and angry for him. He has been a consummate gentleman throughout this whole sordid mess and has shown true class, compassion, forgiveness and has never spoken a word about Sarah, except in her support.

No matter the title he has from birth, Andrew has shown himself to be a true Royal Prince in every sense of the word - by his behaviour and his character. I do very much hope he will have a wonderful middle age and that he will find personal happiness in his own right, especially after both daughters have left home. He really deserves someone to love and look after him with as much love and care as he has shown his family.
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  #266  
Old 09-14-2011, 03:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Lord_Royal View Post
I would say it's more BP's agenda, if there is one, to have Harry/William/Kate separate from Fergie.

Harry/William are said to like Fergie, there was MUCH conjecture in the British Press about William insisting that Sarah be invited (Source: Prince William invites royal outcast Sarah Ferguson to his wedding to Kate Middleton | Mail Online) and how his insistence was rejected.

At the 2007 Diana, Princess of Wales Memorial Concert, Sarah had a seat in the very section occupied by William and Harry. She was the only member of that Royal Family era to attend the concert. Now, that could be that none of the others (Anne, Edward, Andrew, Sophie, Charles etc) thought it appropriate to go or they weren't invited. Either way, Sarah was there with her nephews.

I don't think there's any acrimony between the Wales' and Sarah. Prince Charles attended her father's funeral, everyone forgets that one. As well, Kitty Kelley's controversial 'The Royals' paints an interesting portrait of Sarah and Charles...one in which Sarah, Diana's confidant, could see how dedicated a father Charles was and how Diana played to the sympathies of her children in such a way that Charles did not. Essentially, Sarah was more objective about Charles than it's commonly believed.
Sarah recently said that she hadn't spoken to William or Harry in about 14 years. So...
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  #267  
Old 09-14-2011, 04:09 AM
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I agree; I also agree that having Sarah constantly hanging around is damaging Andrew's efforts to have the girlsrepresenting the RF at events. Sarah's a regular millstone round her daughters' necks, and she ought to realize it and back off a bit!
Completely agree, Fergie is kind of a mother hen, but in a very negative way, kind of grasping and clutching onto her daughters - the world where she thinks she is still part of - out of her own desperation not to let go the standing that comes with it.

Aliza - completely agree with your scenario. Fergie will be the embarrassing mother of the bride who thinks the event is all about HER and that her daughter's future life will continue to be all about HER with a potential to ruin her daughter's married life & family because she cant step back. Fergie is the type of mother who thinks that she continues to be part of the core family, what is wrong, since a new core family would be Bea or Eugenie, her husband & children. I can already see Fergie giving her daughters a headache when comes to discussions with their husbands about the ever-present influencing MIL and not wanting to hurt their mother but having to cut her back.

Bea & Eugenie will have a hell of an emancipation process ahead of them, and I can only hope for their own sake and life that they go through with it.
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  #268  
Old 09-14-2011, 05:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Lord_Royal View Post
Harry/William are said to like Fergie, there was MUCH conjecture in the British Press about William insisting that Sarah be invited (Source: Prince William invites royal outcast Sarah Ferguson to his wedding to Kate Middleton | Mail Online) and how his insistence was rejected.
Personally, I have always had my doubts about whether William 'insisted' that Sarah was invited to the wedding. I certainly concede that the 'story' made the tabloids, but to me that is not evidence of very much! I believe that William and Harry have not seen Sarah for some years; the figure of 14 years has been given by a forum member here, and although I do not know whether or not it is true, I wouldn't necessarily dispute it. For a start, I don't really know when and where Sarah would have met William and Harry in recent years. They certainly don't move in the same circles: Sarah is way over the 'Bouji's ' generation and she certainly doesn't move in adult royal circles!

Don't foget, too, how William and Catherine tried to make their nuptuals more of a 'family' wedding and less of an 'obligation occasion'. BP was always at pains to point out that William and Catherine's wedding was not something in the nature of a state occasion, and therefore the focus on the invitees would be that they were either friends of the couple and their families etc. or were people who had some connection with the organisations and charities supported by the young couple. Pehaps if William and Catherine had had a different type of wedding, an 'obligation' wedding, then perhaps Sarah could still have been invited, but I am sorry, I still cannot see how they would have got round the Prince Philip issue. It's a very faint 'perhaps'.

Knowing how the tabloids [and to be fair, some of the other sections of the press operate!] the story about 'insisting' could well be the work of someone with an 'agenda'! For a start, the Mail story could be a bit of 'creative licence', an intelligent guess if you like. Papers do this type of thing, particularly if there is a 'slow royal news day'. Then if, in due course, Sarah does receive an invitation, then the 'guess' has 'come off'; if she doesn't, then there is the possibility of it leading to another story ' Fergie now banned from Wedding of the year'. Which again would enable yet more column inches to be filled with Fake Sheikhs, near-bankrupcty and the like.

I am sure that if Prince William really 'insisted', then the invitation would have been issued. But plain logic tells me that there was never any chance of an invitation. Where would Sarah have sat? She could hardly have set with her daughters along with the BRF. Prince Philip would have gone apoplectic! And if she had been placed in the main body of the Church [in other words, 'the other side of the screen', where all the 'we had to invite them but they were not really our friends' invitees were all stationed: the Beckams et al. Yet think of the controversy that would have caused: 'Fergie not allowed to sit with her daughters'.

Seating arrangements aside, Sarah's mere presence at the wedding would surely have been an unwelcome diversion: focusing some of the attention from the bride and bridegroom to Sarah, as well as giving the press yet another opportunity to focus on her many perceived wrongdoings... Even if the Fake Sheikh did not make an appearance in the article, there would still have been rich royal pickings: 'Banned from the Royal Enclosure at Royal Ascot, Sarah never the less makes it back into the heart of the Royal Establishment'.. etc etc etc

And that is even before we get to the sort of attention-seeking outfit that Sarah might have worn. 'Mother and daughter in join York Millinery disaster' You all get the picture.

No, in my very humble opinon there was NEVER any real possibility that William insisted that Sarah be invited. If the tabloids didn't think up the story, perhaps Sarah did? Who knows?

Just my thoughts and not meant to offend

Alex

PS - not really sure where this should be posted. As with all things Fergie, it is something of a hybrid. Perhaps Zonk will kindly move it somewhere if it felt to be insufficiently about York family matters... Thanks.
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  #269  
Old 09-14-2011, 06:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Diarist View Post
Personally, I have always had my doubts about whether William 'insisted' that Sarah was invited to the wedding. I certainly concede that the 'story' made the tabloids, but to me that is not evidence of very much! I believe that William and Harry have not seen Sarah for some years; the figure of 14 years has been given by a forum member here, and although I do not know whether or not it is true, I wouldn't necessarily dispute it. For a start, I don't really know when and where Sarah would have met William and Harry in recent years. They certainly don't move in the same circles: Sarah is way over the 'Bouji's ' generation and she certainly doesn't move in adult royal circles!
From what I've read about William, I would be very surprised indeed if he liked Fergie! It's said that tigers breed true, and although William does show evidence of Diana's influence, imo he is very much a Windsor! I wouldn't be amazed to learn that he detests Fergie almost as much as his grandfather does.
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  #270  
Old 09-14-2011, 07:48 AM
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Fergie has not physically done anything to William, so I do think there is no founded reason for any form of dislike. In any case, William grew up largely without Fergie being part of the BRF, so I doubt if any form of dislike could have developed anyway. As far as the wedding is concerned, I think, William being William, wanted to do the "right" thing and invite Fergie. However the only ties that she still has to the BRF is that she is the mother of Beatrice and Eugenie. There is no longer any form of close connection.
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  #271  
Old 09-14-2011, 09:17 AM
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And of course, it is a matter of record that several close friends of Diana's, who were very much part of William's early life as well [ I can immediately think of Lady Annabel Goldsmith (who Diana used to visit most weekends with William and Harry for Sunday lunch), Lucia Flecha de Lima, Diana's very close friend and confdante] were not invited to the wedding. I am sure that if the guest list had been about 'doing the right thing', then they would have received what I will call 'obligation invitations' if you see what I mean. But they didn't. And I put Sarah's invitation in the 'obligation' rather than 'friends and family' category.

I only know what I have heard over the years, and this counts really only as 'polo talk', but people often say that after the early years of Sarah's marriage, Diana was not always that close to Sarah. I've even been told - whether it is true or not is another matter - that Diana was quite astute sometimes about Fergie's possibly 'bad' influence on the monarchy, and this was apparently why, at times, Diana sought to distance herself from Sarah. Some people seem to take the view that Diana was 'anti-monarchy', citing in support Diana's various acts of duplicity [Andrew Morton Book, Panorama etc]. Fair enough. But I am pretty sure that in many ways Diana was a supporter of the institution of monarchy- after all, she seemed to place great value on the fact that William was going to be king, and therefore did take various appropriate steps to ensure that he was well prepared - and that Harry was brought up carefully to ensure that he felt no less advantaged, no less loved etc. I am sure that at times Diana saw the real danger that Sarah could have posed to the monarchy, which could perhaps have led to a greater questioning of whether William could still succeed as King, and I therefore speculate that her apparent distancing of Sarah on just these occasions would have impacted on William's perceptions of Sarah as well.

It's this sort of distancing that I find myself thinking about when considering how Harry apparently -and astutely - kept his distance from Sarah and perhaps Beatrice and Eugenie as well [as the York females seemed to be a complete packgage on this occasion] during the City fundraising trading day. Common sense and sense of family would have suggested to me that he would have spent a little time with his cousins if their mother had not been there.

Alex

just my thoughts, and as ever, not meant to offend.
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  #272  
Old 09-14-2011, 09:35 AM
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Sarah is the mother of two of the Queen's grand daughters and still a close friend with her former husband the Duke of York. All this speculation that she should be banished forever to a life in obscurity is just not going to happen. She belongs to a close knit family and she will stay there. She definitively has some judgement challenges but the family just accepts it. She is a prominent figure in her childrens lives and will stay that way. She is their mother, not their business partner.

There are many royals that have shown much more severe lack of judgement with far more damaging results than Sarah. Perhaps it is time to get another whipping post. Sarah is here to stay and if that bother anyone better perhaps to get another hobby.
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  #273  
Old 09-14-2011, 10:28 AM
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There are many royals that have shown much more severe lack of judgement with far more damaging results than Sarah.
I wonder who you are talking about here? I can surely remember some who strayed early on from their marriage but I don't remember one who allowed his or her children to be eyewitness to it.And this was just the beginning with Sarah.. So I'm honestly curious to get an idea of who you are talking about.
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Old 09-14-2011, 10:44 AM
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I might as well throw in my two cents. I have an almost 21 year old daughter that I adore, but if I was to be hanging all over her at every photo opportunity, I think she would be horrified.
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Old 09-14-2011, 02:39 PM
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Sarah is the mother of two of the Queen's grand daughters and still a close friend with her former husband the Duke of York. All this speculation that she should be banished forever to a life in obscurity is just not going to happen. She belongs to a close knit family and she will stay there. She definitively has some judgement challenges but the family just accepts it. She is a prominent figure in her childrens lives and will stay that way. She is their mother, not their business partner.

There are many royals that have shown much more severe lack of judgement with far more damaging results than Sarah. Perhaps it is time to get another whipping post. Sarah is here to stay and if that bother anyone better perhaps to get another hobby.

Well said.

Every family has a black sheep; families do overlook members who behave badly. Sarah Ferguson has no official role within the Royal Family but she will always be family to Beatrice and Eugenie.
Sarah is no threat. Her stupid choices are all hers and do not reflect badly on her girls nor the Royal Family in general.
Andrew and Sarah have a close bond with their daughters and I can't see any of them wanting to change that. Short of Sarah wearing a burqa, there will always be photos of her going about her life, sometimes in the same frame as Beatrice and Eugenie. Reality says that Sarah is here to stay.
It is true that other Royal Family members have shown a lack of judgement over the decades. Exactly who/what/where and how severe could be a topic for a book of many chapters ... which we would all read.
Ten wrongs don't make a right.
None of it changes Sarah's silly decisions in the past. She's likely to make more in the future and we are likely to hear about it.
The press won't change it's spots.
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Old 09-14-2011, 03:21 PM
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"Short of Sarah wearing a burqa, there will always be photos of her going about her life, sometimes in the same frame as Beatrice and Eugenie. Reality says that Sarah is here to stay."

I have no problem with Sarah getting on with her life, I just see no evidence of it. She seems to think it is still 1986-1992 when she was a member of the BRF. Well it is 2011, the world has moved on and passed her by, and she should not be accompanying her grown up daughters out and about all the time. It feeds her need for attention If the girls have any wish/hope to be working members of the BRF, even on a part time basis, the best thing they could do would be to tell mommy to stay home. They can see her all they want privately, at Royal Lodge or elsewhere, but at public events it is in their best interests not to be linked so closely in the public mind with their mother.
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Old 09-14-2011, 03:24 PM
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.
Sarah is no threat. Her stupid choices are all hers and do not reflect badly on her girls nor the Royal Family in general.
I beg to differ as she drags the rest of the Yorks into any mess she makes. However, Russo needs to keep this thread on task which is about the Yorks news, etc. And Russo hasn't any new news to report.
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  #278  
Old 09-14-2011, 03:32 PM
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here's a link from 2007 re: Sarah having not spoken w/ the princes - I think I've read a more recent, similar statement as well.
Sarah Ferguson Says She Hasn't Spoken With the Princes Since Her Falling Out With Diana
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  #279  
Old 09-14-2011, 05:40 PM
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I wonder who you are talking about here? I can surely remember some who strayed early on from their marriage but I don't remember one who allowed his or her children to be eyewitness to it.And this was just the beginning with Sarah.. So I'm honestly curious to get an idea of who you are talking about.

Her sister-in-law for one cheated within the first 5 years of the marriage - and admitted it.

She also took her sons to his house where she went upstairs and they were entertained by his mother downstairs (or at least in another room).

So I can think of one who strayed.

But this one also went on to publicly denounce her husband and to try to destroy him - something Sarah has never done - she might have contributed accidentally to damaging her husband but it was never done deliberately or maliciously as her late sister-in-law did.
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Old 09-14-2011, 08:48 PM
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Diana cheated after Charles did that is a known fact. Camilla was very much a part of the marriage from the beginning. This is something Sarah never had to deal with. Andrew loved and adored her Sarah cheated on Andrew with a very wealthy man while she was pregnant with Andrews child and flaunted it. Then she goes off on holiday with another man with his two children and gets photographed topless and having her toes sucked! The pictures show up when she is on holiday with his family. Are you kidding me, she didn't do Andrew any damage and if she did it was an accident? On what planet is any of that ok and not harmful to your spouse. Andrew was a very good looking young man and Sarah was never that attractive but she was and is very greedy. She wanted a jet setting lifestyle and she went after it. You don't think her behaviour has hurt Andrew and the girls? She just cost him his job, she lives in his house and his name get's linked with hers whenever she stuffs up which is more often then not. Don't tell me Andrew wasn't hurt when Sarah chose to break her marriage vows for a richer man and she made a fool out of Andrew more then once. Just because Andrew has been a gentlemen and never said anything doesn't mean what she has done is ok with him. He divorced her if he really wanted to keep her around as his wife I think he could off. But Sarah didn't want to stay she didn't like working and thought the grass was greener. Sarah has said bad things about Andrew he is boring, he is bad in bed just a couple of little gems Sarah said when she had the money and didn't need Andrew around. You can't compere what Diana went through with Sarah at all! What's worse is that Sarah will continue to cause pain to her close knit family which by the way for many years wasn't so close knit when Sarah was jetting off with her boyfriends and leaving the girls at home. It's only been recently when Sarah has realised how she can get attention hanging around with the girls that she can't get by herself anymore that the family seems to have become so much closer. If Sarah met someone new who could give her the lifestyle she thinks she deserves and she could get the attention then she would have no problems leaving the girls alone just like she did when they were growing up.
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