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  #181  
Old 08-28-2011, 05:28 AM
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Originally Posted by NotAPretender View Post
No Andrew?


Bernie Ecclestone is a close friend of Paddy McNally. (now there's a name familiar to all Fergie-watchers!!!) To be honest, I am not so sure whether Andrew has ever met Bernie Ecclestone, which was initially because Andrew's social circle NEVER collided with that of Mr Ecclestone. Subsequently, Mr Ecclestone's somewhat 'controversial background', which I have tried to summarise below, was such that I am sure that BP would have always done their best to ensure that Andrew and Bernie never met........

Mr Ecclestone is an exceedingly 'controversial' character. His business dealings [which have made him a multi-BILLIONaire] have caused what I had better describe as 'frequent raised eyebrows'. On one occasion, when one of his, er, VERY controversial deals ended up in court, even the judge said that 'he would not want to rely on anything that Mr Ecclestone had said unless there was corroborative evidence in support of Mr Eccleston'e contentions'. In other words (and since I am writing on this Royal Forumand must behave with appropriate decorum), the Judge was indicating that Mr Ecclestone was 'economical with the truth' [as the saying goes....]

Bernie Ecclestone has also courted controversy in recent years over his methods of paying tax: his [now-ex] wife Slavica was Croatian, and therefore under British Tax Laws, Bernie could put all his income and income-producing assets in her name and therefore pay minimal tax [in one particular year, it was reported that his British tax bill was about HALF the figure I paid - and your humble Diarist is nowhere near even millionaire status!!]. Further controversy arose when Bernie Ecclestone made a payment to the Labour political party, apparently to secure legislation whereby tobacco advertising would after all still be permitted - Formula I motor racing was heavily used by tobacco companies to advertise their product, and had such advertising been banned from Formula One, Bernie's income would have fallen quite considerably....the whole sorry saga was often referred to as a form of bribery'. Further controversy arose over a recent remark by Mr Ecclestone apparently praising Hitler.....



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Originally Posted by NotAPretender View Post
Interesting, given how we've been fed a steady diet of how close and loving this divorced couple is. Well, one person says that, anyway. What better way to tell the world just how close and loving you are, than to appear together at the culmination of a romance....a wedding?


A very pertinent observation; as I have said above, Andrew has possibly never even met Bernie Ecclestone, but if he and Sarah were really a 'bona fide couple', then correct form would have demanded that the invitation was of course extended to him as well..........this is not really a topic to develop on this thread, but I have noticed recently that there are quite a lot of attempts seemingly to 'distance' Andrew from Sarah and portray him as very much his own man with his own social life and circle of friends....hmmmm!

Actually, I would never really have thought that EVEN Sarah was a particular friend of Bernie Ecclestone, let alone a close friend. [The same observation could be made of her daughters!] The cynic in me [noting how Sarah and the girls have in the past turned up at Grands Prix in the super VVIP areas] wonders whether Bernie has been 'exploiting to the max' [if you see what I mean] the Paddy McNally / Sarah connection in order to secure some 'Royal' presence down on the Grand Prix starting grid. In other words, Sarah is really only a 'friend of a friend' so far as her relationship with Bernie is concerned. And I have to say, I have not seen any press coverage about the wedding which would lead me to believe that other 'friends of a friend' have been invited. In other words, in my humble opinion, Sarah and her daughters are there because of the 'Royal' status and that Bernie would not have given them a second glance [let alone invitations] if Sarah had not married into royalty......

Incidentally, I would have thought that, in the past, BP would not have been too happy with the Princesses getting too closely connected with the 'seedier' by-products of Formula One [The Duke of Kent and even Prince Michael of Kent have always been much better 'protected' by going under the umbrella of the much more respectable British Racing Drivers Club (a much-more 'pukka' way into motorsport, with lots of 'gentlemen' members) when undertaking engagements connected with motor sport. The fact that Beatrice and Eugenie are at the Ecclestone wedding is, in my very humble opinion, further evidence of the way that they are becoming 'less involved' in a royal way of life! [Let's just hope that these two young ladies don't go 'too Eurotrash' (as that set is sometimes known as....)

Quote:
Originally Posted by NotAPretender View Post
Eugenie looks tremendously wonderful. Beatrice looked like a cocktail waitress. Sarah needs to investigate Spanx.


Thank you NotAPretender, that really made me laugh, but, I hope, not too unkindly. This is an observation that really belongs in a 'Sarah' thread, but I have to say that since, rather unfortunately, looks do go a long way in influencing how prospective suitors view a person, Sarah does not seem to be a too-enticing prospect at the moment. Rich wealthy men and aristocrats of the type who could provide Sarah with the sort of lifestyle that she craves almost always tend to seek out beauty and attractiveness in their companions. And poor Sarah is NOT looking at her best at the moment.......

Just my thoughts,

Alex
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  #182  
Old 08-28-2011, 06:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Kataryn View Post
Coming to think of it: when Fergie introduced her daughters to "society" on their coming out balls, just what kind of "society" did she introduce them to. I seem to remember that the Queen was not present but who was? Maybe Alex might be able to help, for I think this could shed an interesting light on the York family.
I will try and help Katryn: 'Coming out' really does not exist at all in the UK any more. Traditionally, when a young English 'gel' reached the age of 17, she would leave the world of the cloistered schoolroom and make her debut into Society. The world of the debutante was dealt a near-death blow as long ago as 1957, when it was announced that 1958 would see the last of Presentations at Court. The debutante system 'rumbled on' during the 1960's, 1970's and 1980's and even into the 1990's without the Royal imprimatur, but was diminishing with every passing year. 'Coming Out' parties were being replaced with large parties for either your 18th or 21st Birthdays [various parties given -usually by the Queen - for the Royal grandchildren's birthdays of both sexes were given instead of formal coming out parties [traditionally of course, only girls 'came out' and had 'coming out balls']

From memory, Beatrice and Eugenie both had large birthday parties at the appropriate time, but they were not 'coming out parties' in the traditional sense of the word. Of course one of the reasons for this is that - and not only in the case of Beatrice and Eugenie - girls of 18 or so have actually been 'out' [i.e. [participating in the social world] for some years, and traditionally, at the time of your 'coming out' you had literally not been participating in Society [the world of parties and upper class gatherings] at all.

Leaving aside the fact that I do not think that either Beatrice or Eugenie therefore had 'offical comings-out', I do think that Sarah has over the years been introducing the two girls to a rather louche from of 'Society' [often called the 'Eurotrash' set, where the spending of money goes hand in hand with vulgarity, excess and bad taste, peopled by some exceptionally 'roguish' people, who would never have got a toe-hold in the old-money world of the traditional English Society of the past.

Hope this helps,

Alex

[PS - to those people who have PM'd me about writing something on Presentation at Court, I hang my head in shame, but I still have to write something. I will, I promise. A.]
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  #183  
Old 08-28-2011, 06:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Lumutqueen View Post
Fergie called Beatrice's 18th her 'coming out ball' and The Queen attended that bash at Windsor Castle.

Just like her mother? | Mail Online

And Eugenie didn't have an 18th or 21st birthday to celebrate her age, they were both quiet celebrations - her 18th attended by the Queen at Windsor.

The Queen didn't attend, nor did William or Harry.

Inside Beatrice's £400,000 birthday bash | Mail Online

The article you linked was before the Ball when it was expected that the Queen would attend. In the end however neither the Queen nor Philip attended.

Although Bea had hoped that the party would mark a rapprochement between her mother and grandfather, her birthday wish was not granted. Despite strong rumours that the Queen would attend, at least the dinner, she and Philip went to Sandringham for the weekend instead.

and later...

Buckingham Palace confirmed that the Queen would not be attending her granddaughter's 18th and said it had never been her intention to do so.

Why William and Harry snubbed Princess Bea's birthday party | Mail Online

The young princes were at a private party some hours drive away.

Prince William and Prince Harry missed their cousin Beatrice's 18th birthday celebrations at Windsor Castle to party with the son of a jailed mercenary, The Mail on Sunday can reveal.

I do think it sad that they couldn't put aside their hatred of Sarah for even one evening to celebrate with their cousin but that is families for you. It is also why I suspect that they mightn't attend her wedding and will find some excuse.

Interestingly Chelsy Davy did attend Bea's birthday bash.
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  #184  
Old 08-28-2011, 08:31 AM
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There seems to be a certain amount of snobbery involved in peoples' perceptions of whether the Ecclestones constitute the "right kind of society", or whether the York ladies are genuine friends of the family. I'm that through her long-standing friendship with Paddy MacNally, Sarah knows plenty of people in the motor racing world. (And as for BE, he'd hardly be the 1st rich man to legally avoid tax or attempt to pay for influence).
And surely Petra and Tamara are of a similar age to Beatrice and Eugenie, and no doubt are part of the same young social elite of London (eg. at clubs like Bouji's and Whisky Mist), and they may well know each other very well.

Finally, I have to say that all 3 York ladies look stunning as they're seen coming out of the hotel - I love Sarah's pink dress!
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  #185  
Old 08-28-2011, 09:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post

I do think it sad that they couldn't put aside their hatred of Sarah for even one evening to celebrate with their cousin but that is families for you. It is also why I suspect that they mightn't attend her wedding and will find some excuse.

Interestingly Chelsy Davy did attend Bea's birthday bash.

1; Do you know personally that it was hatred of Sarah that prevented them attending the party? Or are you guessing?
2; Not very interesting actually, you receive an invite to a royal bash - why would you turn it down?
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  #186  
Old 08-28-2011, 09:29 AM
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Actually seeing some of the guests and reading their bios (Flavio Briatore) and seeing the Hiltons there as well ... makes me wonder if BP would be all that impressed that the girls attended. Not defending Prince Andrew but the likes of the above mentioned character is no great claim ..... looking at the pictures I would think that Sarah would not have been looked at twice if not for the "royal xn" in company with many of the women there.
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  #187  
Old 08-28-2011, 09:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
Maybe Andrew wasn't invited - in fact I am sure if he was invited he would have been there.

Would you want the friend of a known paedophile attending your wedding? I wouldn't - regardless of who he was - that friendship would be enough to wipe Andrew from my invitation lists and maybe others feel the same way. Who knows?

Maybe Andrew had another engagement and they decided that Sarah and the girls would go to the wedding while Andrew went elsewhere to accept some other invitation - who knows?
Is it any different to invite a person that would be willing to accept money to pay your debts from said paedophile?
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  #188  
Old 08-28-2011, 09:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Princess of Durham View Post
Actually seeing some of the guests and reading their bios (Flavio Briatore) and seeing the Hiltons there as well ... makes me wonder if BP would be all that impressed that the girls attended. Not defending Prince Andrew but the likes of the above mentioned character is no great claim ..... looking at the pictures I would think that Sarah would not have been looked at twice if not for the "royal xn" in company with many of the women there.
It was very much an 'it' girl/celeb wedding. I can understand Sarah's attendance but Beatrice and Eugenie
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  #189  
Old 08-28-2011, 09:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
The Queen didn't attend, nor did William or Harry.

The young princes were at a private party some hours drive away.

I do think it sad that they couldn't put aside their hatred of Sarah for even one evening to celebrate with their cousin but that is families for you. It is also why I suspect that they mightn't attend her wedding and will find some excuse.
This is why I believe Fergie's behavior will definitely impact on her daughters' ability to make good marriages!

It won't help that they are the Queen's granddaughters; their mother is a black mark against them as far as the old nobility is concerned.

They'll probably marry wealth, but I will be amazed if they marry into the aristocracy!
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  #190  
Old 08-28-2011, 12:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Meadow View Post
. Wow if she is really wearing spanx then that dress is just too tight it shouldn't have those lines what happens when she sits?
LOL!
Well, there are thoughts one should forbid oneself to think them... But this was a good one!
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  #191  
Old 08-28-2011, 12:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Mirabel View Post
This is why I believe Fergie's behavior will definitely impact on her daughters' ability to make good marriages!

It won't help that they are the Queen's granddaughters; their mother is a black mark against them as far as the old nobility is concerned.

They'll probably marry wealth, but I will be amazed if they marry into the aristocracy!
I doubt aristocrats would mind - there have always been very black sheeps among the ladies of the nobility but when you look at the lineage in later centuries, all you see is how well-born they were and how many "connections" they brought to the family. From that view the girls are pretty well-"connected" on both sides of their lineage.

And we don't know yet how they will turn out and how they want to live their life or even: which life they want to live. The thing that works for them is: in this day and age, you have the choice as a princess. And for testing the waters, such a wedding surely is a good place to start. They have the opportunity to meet influencial people of the "luxury goods" section of the industry amd might make contacts which could lead to lucrative offers later. There are quite some princesses/countesses who dabble with PR-jobs for luxury goods...
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  #192  
Old 08-28-2011, 12:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
........


Why William and Harry snubbed Princess Bea's birthday party | Mail Online


Interestingly Chelsy Davy did attend Bea's birthday bash.
Interesting Link and thank you for that Bertie. However, from my reading of the article, it appears that Chelsy was actually at Jack Mann's party, not Beatrice's bash - the article is not particularly well-written [sloppy journalism] but to me - particularly with the description of what Chelsy was wearing, it sees that she was NOT at Beatrice's party........ perhaps others could read the article and say if they agree or not with me.
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  #193  
Old 08-28-2011, 03:01 PM
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I agree - I believe Chelsy was not on Beatrice's party.
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  #194  
Old 08-28-2011, 04:37 PM
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SouthYork RIP: Andrew and Fergie's dilapidated mansion to be torn down, say Polish family living there rent-free | Mail Online

Daily Mail article re Sunninghill. The photo of Andrew and Sarah is one I hadn't seen before, they look so young and fresh faced.
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  #195  
Old 08-28-2011, 05:34 PM
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Posts about a future York wedding have been moved to Future York weddings .
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  #196  
Old 08-28-2011, 08:12 PM
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Originally Posted by FergieFan View Post
There seems to be a certain amount of snobbery involved in peoples' perceptions of whether the Ecclestones constitute the "right kind of society", or whether the York ladies are genuine friends of the family. I'm that through her long-standing friendship with Paddy MacNally, Sarah knows plenty of people in the motor racing world. (And as for BE, he'd hardly be the 1st rich man to legally avoid tax or attempt to pay for influence).
And surely Petra and Tamara are of a similar age to Beatrice and Eugenie, and no doubt are part of the same young social elite of London (eg. at clubs like Bouji's and Whisky Mist), and they may well know each other very well.

Finally, I have to say that all 3 York ladies look stunning as they're seen coming out of the hotel - I love Sarah's pink dress!

I've had another think about this, and now think that perhaps Andrew was invited, as it seems that various Ecclestones have been entertained by the Yorks before.........

As for 'snobbery', well, that is not how I understand the word: to me, snobbery [which is something that I detest] is looking down on someone because of their presumed social inferiority: therefore to refuse an inviation to the wedding on the ground of (say) Bernie Ecclestone's (presumed) social inferiority would be totally wrong, as it would represents snobbishness of the worst possible type.

But my concern about the Princesses mixing with Bernie Ecclestone is not based on any perception of BE's social status; instead it is based on my believe that BE represents a seedy sort of world; he himself has been involved with many unpleasantnesses, that I have detailed earlier in this thead. Some of the other wedding guests also, I would submit, are far from the sort of people with whom the Princesses [as members of the BRF] should not be mixing: Flavio Briatore is now banned for life from Formula One because of his scandalous cheating - he is a man of little integrity...

It is one thing for Sarah to attend; she is no longer a member of the BRF, although anything she does unfortunately tends to reflect on her two daughters. Although this brings me to another point: it is Sarah AGAIN mixing with not just the extremely rich but the extremely super-rich. I do not think it is good for Sarah, a self-confessed penniless person in recent months ' I have nothing........nothing' to get involved in a lifestyle that she can never aspire to. I know that she is now apparently 'earning' £100,000 a year again [for what I would like to know?] but even this income, which may seem massive to some of us here at TRF, is peanuts in the world of the super-rich. And I suspect that with her current level of spending, Sarah's £100,000 a year won't last long.

People here sometimes tell me that it is acceptable for Sarah's 'tab' to be picked up by others, but I am afraid that I get the feeling always that people don't really pick up the tab for Sarah out of the goodness of their hearts... I suspect they want something, and that something is access to Royalty... and that, now, means Beatrice and Eugenie. Oh Dear!

As usual, I close with my usual words about not wishing to offend, as the above are only my views.

Alex
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  #197  
Old 08-28-2011, 08:23 PM
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My thoughts exactly in reference to Sarah mixing with these (super rich). It is like placing a child in a candy shop. She just does not belong there and honestly doesn't fit in with the likes of BE, FB, and even the forever posing Paris Hilton et al. This is, IMO, clearly a case of using the Princesses as props and I'm sure Sarah goes along with it because she likes to be included in that kind of lifestyle .... one she cannot afford.
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  #198  
Old 08-28-2011, 08:33 PM
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I am with you Diarist. There is no such thing as a free lunch as they say. People don't give others large amounts of cash for nothing. Sarah has to be giving something in return. I wonder how she manages to live such a lifestyle with in her own words so little. I also wonder where this hundred grand a year is coming from. She has no show and her book sales don't seem to have gone so well so what is she doing to earn it. The girls socialising with some of these people is just bad I know some of those names and I know they are bad news! Not so sure the Queen would be too thrilled about it.
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Old 08-29-2011, 09:16 AM
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It's not unheard of for people of a certain class and small finances to sometimes be paid for attending parties and other social events, I'm beginning to wonder if that could possibly be the source of some "income".
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Old 08-29-2011, 11:16 AM
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It's not unheard of for people of a certain class and small finances to sometimes be paid for attending parties and other social events, I'm beginning to wonder if that could possibly be the source of some "income".
'Twas thinking exactly along those lines earlier today, Princess of Durham. "Appearance fees" kept Linsday Lohan going long after the movies and residual ran dry. It's very common down here in the nightclubs of South Beach and Palm Beach. Various "personalities" or "celebs," major or minor, are invited to clubs to stuff the guest lists with recognizable faces, and paid for their appearance based on their relative value to the vendor. Generally they eat and drink free for the night as well.
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