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  #221  
Old 10-01-2006, 12:59 PM
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Sarah and Andrew

I realize that many of you don't like Sarah, and you are certainly entitled to your opinion But really I think you guys give her too much credit!

If Andrew can't move on from Sarah you can hardly put all the blame on her! An albatross around his neck? I hardly think he would agree with you. He maintains a friendly relationship with Sarah because of his daughters and most likely...cause he wants to.
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  #222  
Old 10-01-2006, 01:01 PM
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Which is great - unless history starts to repeat itself.
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  #223  
Old 10-01-2006, 01:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeatrixFan
Which is great - unless history starts to repeat itself.
Well if by history repeating itself you are speaking of Andrew and Sarah remarrying and the same problems of her fitting into the royal world...well I think not. I think we all can agree that Sarah enjoys the some of the freedom of not being a member of the BRF.

But again..I use the model of Charles and Camilla prior to their marriage. Its obvious that Sarah and Andrew enjoy each other's company..why can't they remain friends, attend non royal events such as parties, plays, etc without the hassle of remarrying. Warts and all..she makes him happy. And don't we want Andrew to be happy? Charles has Camilla, Anne has Tim and Edward has Sophie. Every time there is an event, and each of his siblings is with his/her spouse....I feel so bad for him. In a perfect world, he would fall in love with a woman who is accepted by his family, and his country...but this isn't a perfect world. And you can't help who you love.
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  #224  
Old 10-01-2006, 01:13 PM
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I think Andrew would look like a fool if he took Sarah back. Can you image the toe-sucking headlines? Sarah never fitted in. Instead of going away and changing, she's just got worse. She acts like an A-Lister when in fact, she's a tired old Z-Lister who gets stroppy when people ask her about the Royal Family but that's all people are really interested in her for. They want Andrew gossip, they want Queen rumours - if she can't give that then she's no good to the chat circuit. Sarah hasn't really changed from that flame-haired embarassment she always was. She's still loud, arrogant, difficult, mouthy and stroppy - if Andrew married her again, he'd be a laughing stock and it just adds to the "Soap Opera" something we really don't need.
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  #225  
Old 10-01-2006, 01:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeatrixFan
I think Andrew would look like a fool if he took Sarah back. Can you image the toe-sucking headlines? Sarah never fitted in. Instead of going away and changing, she's just got worse. She acts like an A-Lister when in fact, she's a tired old Z-Lister who gets stroppy when people ask her about the Royal Family but that's all people are really interested in her for. They want Andrew gossip, they want Queen rumours - if she can't give that then she's no good to the chat circuit. Sarah hasn't really changed from that flame-haired embarassment she always was. She's still loud, arrogant, difficult, mouthy and stroppy - if Andrew married her again, he'd be a laughing stock and it just adds to the "Soap Opera" something we really don't need.
I agree with all this. It would make him look incredibly stupid if he took her back. Besides, I don't think his family would allow it and, let's be real, his family really does call the shots. I also agree with Zonk in saying it's too bad he doesn't find a nice lady (and I stress the word "lady" - not in title but in poise and demeanor) to become involved with and perhaps even fall in love with. Though he doesn't seem too miserable being alone. And for all anyone knows, maybe he's not alone. Maybe he's just discreet. As for Sarah, if I were doing spin for her, I'd suggest she start more charitable work. Lay off the mag covers and the talk shows and the NYC party scene and focus more on helping others. Maybe go live for a few months in Africa or S. America or the poorer deperate parts of Asia and really get involved. Give her daughters the spotlight (on their own) for awhile and stay in the background. I think doing this sort of thing would change her image for alot of people (and maybe give her a sense of personal accomplishment and satisfaction - I'd hope).
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  #226  
Old 10-01-2006, 01:30 PM
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Remarriage?

Who said anything about remarriage? I certainly didn't. Sarah wont remarry Andrew. And I think he loves her too much to subject her to the confines of royal life.

I referred to Sarah as his companion. And while I am sure the "toe sucking incident" would get discussed again, at some point people would find something else to talk about. But then again...we are still talking about...so perhaps not.

And I don't think taking Sarah back would make Andrew look stupid. She wouldn't be the first spouse who committed adultery who was taken back by said aggrieved spouse. I agree with Bella if she took some time away from the scene...became a little more low key...gave up the interviews and stopped hanging out with her daughters..did some charity (although she does it just doesn't receive as much publicity)...people might be more receptive to her dating her ex.
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  #227  
Old 10-01-2006, 01:39 PM
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She wouldnt be the first worldwide but she'd be the first to marry a Royal, cheat on him, divorce him and then marry him again in Britain. The problem is, if Andrew is seeing her behind closed doors, there comes a time when it's made public and people start to wonder just what's going on. I think it's a shame that he can't find anyone new, if that is indeed the case. It'd be nice to see Andrew marry again. But not to Fergie. Once was enough for the British people.
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  #228  
Old 10-01-2006, 01:43 PM
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Thanks Tsu An and SkyDragon, for explaining how Sarah recked up so much debt. Still I'm mystified that someone in her position, with everything she could ever want for, got it into her head that she didn't have enough fillintheblank/jewels/clothes/cars/whathaveyous, and had to go out and spend, spend, spend! What was she thinking indeed. Is it possible she is a generous soul and her not-so-real friends took financial advantage of her back in the day? As in, did she perhaps pay for friends' holidays, restaurants, etc. etc. She probably was considered much wealthier than her actual allowance, and she wanted to show off, be generous to friends?
Mystifying, this. How many cartier necklesses does one need, after all?!
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  #229  
Old 10-01-2006, 01:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeatrixFan
This is the strange thing, despite their divorce, Andrew and Sarah are extremely close. In Brian Hoey's "At Home with the Queen", he says that at the Duke of York's apartments in Buckingham Palace, the sign on the door still says, "TRH The Duke and Duchess of York" and when some workmen removed it to replace it "HRH The Duke of York", Andrew went mad and insisted on the old sign being immediately returned. He also has quite a few portraits of Sarah around so I think that he must love still feel something for Sarah.
Hm, I'm not so sure about that when I think about it. If I was the writer of a psychological mystery, I'd have a field day out of Andrew's family constellation. Just think for a moment about him in the context of his birth: he is the spare, Charles is the heir. He chose the military as his profession and went to war. The war was won and Andrew finally had a label Charlesw didn't have: war hero.

He had a reputation as a womanizer while Charles got kids. But then Andrew married, too, and got kids himself. Girls instead of Charles' boys. Then the marriages broke down. It turned out that Andrew was the cuckolded husband while Charles even married his mistress after getting rid of his wife.

Andrew has not much beyond his military lifestyle. IMHO he could be fixated on being a "victor" - both in his professional and his private life. Maybe he is simply not able to let loose with Sarah as this would mean defeat. Even the changing of the name plates on his apartment would sound "DEFEAT" each time he saw that door - and he works in London, so spends quite some time there.

And Sarah maybe knows perfectly how to play him: "You know, Andrew, if I can't stay with you when I'm in London the girls will want to be with me..." "You know, Andrew, the girls...."... "You know, Andrew, the media will have a field day if I..." You never know how vicious and/or sly a woman can be who is at fault but wants to talk herself out of it. If she pushed the right buttons...

Suddenly a lot of small incidents start to make sense: the one lately in New York when Andrew appears with Sarah but while he takes his place as the guest of honour, she is reduced to sitting at his servant's table. On her own turf - the US! Or Beatrice's birthday: maybe he got his parents to allow the party at Windsor but they didn't attend as a sign that they don't condone Sarah's way to get the upper hand with Andrew.

Mind, this is just a scenario that could fit into a crime story. I just wanted to point out that there could be a completely different explanation for the rather "strange" relationship of Andrew and Sarah. And the combination of "second son". "war hero" and "cuckolded husband" is such a rewarding one if you use your imagination...
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  #230  
Old 10-01-2006, 01:54 PM
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I think you're right Jo. Sarah has a two WMDs in the armory - the girls and the media, both of which she's cleverly tied together.
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  #231  
Old 10-01-2006, 01:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by princess olga
Thanks Tsu An and SkyDragon, for explaining how Sarah recked up so much debt.
Good question. Where/how did she spend $6million??? She had a huge (IMO revolting) home, vehicles, jewles. She certainly couldn't have spent it on clothes (if she did, it's very VERY scary). Where was all this money spent? I do recall her taking alot of vacations, maybe this was it. $6 million is a lot of money, though, for holidays.

As for Andrew taking her back, I stand by my belief it would make Andrew look foolish. I'm sure it's been done before and will certainly be done again (ex spouses taking their cheating former partners back) but I can't think of any couple where their marital issues were dragged through the mud and made such a soap opera out of, except maybe Charles and Di but she's dead and he's already remarried. Despite that I think most ppl (who care) think it's noble and mature that Andrew and Sarah are still friends, I think the tide would turn if he were to marry her again. In the public eye, she hasn't changed that much and I think ppl would be convinced she'd be up to her old tricks again. I think it would make Andrew look weak and desperate, rather than a man still in love w his ex. Just MO.
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  #232  
Old 10-01-2006, 02:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zonk
...But again..I use the model of Charles and Camilla prior to their marriage. Its obvious that Sarah and Andrew enjoy each other's company..why can't they remain friends, attend non royal events such as parties, plays, etc without the hassle of remarrying. Warts and all..she makes him happy. And don't we want Andrew to be happy? Charles has Camilla, Anne has Tim and Edward has Sophie. Every time there is an event, and each of his siblings is with his/her spouse....I feel so bad for him. In a perfect world, he would fall in love with a woman who is accepted by his family, and his country...but this isn't a perfect world. And you can't help who you love.
I think the Windsor wives (Sarah, Diana and Sophie to a lesser degree) have all lowered the standards of their titles in general and that includes Camilla, imho, even though she's been shoved down the throats of the Brits and the Commonwealth as the great love Prince Charles. I still wonder if they'll make it to King and Queen, though. QEII seems to be plotting for her grandson, William, to succeed her.

As far as Andrew, yes I hope he finds someone who makes him happy and that happiness probably would have to mean that that woman can fit into royal life and be acceptable to his family. Is that so hard? Prince Frederik has done it in Mary and Prince William has shown taste and judgement in at least choosing a girlfriend.
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  #233  
Old 10-01-2006, 02:04 PM
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Laviollette, not sure what newspaper you're reading but the Queen certainly isn't plotting anything of the sort. And Camilla shoved down our throats? Well, you don't hear us complaining.
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  #234  
Old 10-01-2006, 02:05 PM
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Well, you'll hear me complaining if this thread starts derailing into a discussion of Charles and Camilla and what the Queen thinks of them and whether William should be the next monarch.
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  #235  
Old 10-01-2006, 02:38 PM
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I've reopened the thread after deleting the last few posts. Please remember that the forum rules about being respectful to other posters and expressing negative opinions in a civil way apply to this thread as much as to any other.

Elspeth

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  #236  
Old 10-01-2006, 10:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo of Palatine
Hm, I'm not so sure about that when I think about it...
Hmmm, that would definitely be an interesting crime story, Jo. You're sure you're not a crime writer? :)

I think though on an intimate level, Andrew already has Sarah's heart, so he conquered her there, they're both hanging on to each other. As far as public esteem. I'm afraid that hanging around Sarah with all her perceived faults does not raise Andrew in the esteem of other men. Sarah is not really stunning which really impresses men and she doesn't pull off a superior package which also impresses men.

I think that if only Andrew's ego were involved and he wanted to be the conquering hero and gain stature with his fellow men, he would get a stunning, gorgeous wife who would be 4 times as beautiful, 4 times as classy, 4 times as accepted by the Royal Family and the public than Sarah ever thought of being - and then for keeps, his new wife would be The Duchess of York and a Royal Highness at that, and Sarah would only be the second Duchess of York pushing her further to the background.

Other men tend to be really impressed by a gorgeous, elegant, sophisticated woman on a man's arm; such a wife is almost guaranteed to bolster a man's ego and you see it often enough but Andrew seemed to want no part of it. So I think its love, not necessarily a healthy type of love but love all the same.
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  #237  
Old 10-01-2006, 10:35 PM
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I am always mixed in this department.I too remember with toe curlling embarassment all the drama surrounding her but she has pulled up her britches and tightened her belt and I do admire that. Also her girls seem really well turned out and I admire her there. Still opening herself up to all and sundry with the details of her life I don't think that that is honest but a little foolish imo.
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  #238  
Old 10-01-2006, 10:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laviollette
She has clearly remained an albatross around her ex-husband's neck.
I think they're both albatrosses around each other's neck. Over the last few pages I've read about how pathetic Sarah looks sometimes and I would have to agree. I think its because she's still longing for something that she can't have and that is to have Andrew back. Andrew looks a little lost and lonely too because think about it, he performs a lot of public duties, many of them taking him off to the Far East for long stretches of time. He's basically doing them alone.

Their love is a powerful love for sure, but I think at this point its a destructive love. The real albatross around Andrew's neck is his royal birth and he can't just chuck it all and run off with Sarah.

Zonk brought up Camilla but though Camilla committed adultery her demeanour was more in keeping with what the Royal Family was used to and comfortable with. I imagine the Queen and Prince Philip were never going to have a problem with the person of Camilla across the dinner table because despite the affair with Charles, Camilla's temperament just fits in with the Royal Family (they might have had a problem with the idea of sitting with Charles' mistress but with the person of Camilla never). With Sarah, that was never going to happen.
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  #239  
Old 10-01-2006, 11:14 PM
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Putting it out there

I am going to make a prediction..and I know a lot of people are going to have a problem if it comes true.....BUT I think when Phillip dies (not that I am advocating mind you) and if or when Charles becomes King....you will see more of Sarah as a part of Andrew's life.

I think we all know that Phillip can't stand Sarah and most likely if he wasn't around per se....than Sarah would be accepted at more 'family but not royal events.' And not always at her assistance...but these invitations might be given freely. I think the Queen accepts that Sarah is a "non negotiable" in Andrews life. And like any mother..she wants her child to be happy. While both she and Charles recognize that Sarah is not royal marriage material...they do recognize the love that the two share for each other.
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  #240  
Old 10-01-2006, 11:38 PM
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Quote:
I think the Windsor wives (Sarah, Diana and Sophie to a lesser degree) have all lowered the standards of their titles in general
Not just the standards, but the prestige and respect for the titles and it's respective heritages.

Quote:
And Sarah maybe knows perfectly how to play him: "You know, Andrew, if I can't stay with you when I'm in London the girls will want to be with me..." "You know, Andrew, the girls...."... "You know, Andrew, the media will have a field day if I..." You never know how vicious and/or sly a woman can be who is at fault but wants to talk herself out of it. If she pushed the right buttons...
I think if she pushed the right buttons against Andrew, the royal family would push her off a cliff. I don't believe they would let Sarah use the girls in that manner and let her jerk Andrew's chain. As for a new Duchess of York, that would be good. Andrew needs someone solid and stable to guid and support him, plus someone who won't screw around.
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