The Prince Andrew and Jeffrey Epstein Controversy

[Roslyn]

I don't think Sarah "has the goods" on Andrew in the sense of holding him to ransom in some way; I don't think she has a malicious bone in her body. I do, however, think that the two of them might be more similar, and more suited to each other, than the RF might like or be prepared to admit.

[Mermaid1962]

It's generally opposites that attract, but this couple seem to be an exception. Then again, perhaps it was the "like-ness" that drove them apart and not Andrew being at sea a lot.

Originally Posted by Roslyn

I do, however, think that the two of them might be more similar, and more suited to each other, than the RF might like or be prepared to admit.

[Roslyn]

Originally Posted by Mermaid1962

It's generally opposites that attract, but this couple seem to be an exception.

But as Gerald O'Hara said to Scarlett when he confirmed Ashley was to marry Melanie, "Like should marry like".

[rmay286]

Originally Posted by Roslyn

I don't think Sarah "has the goods" on Andrew in the sense of holding him to ransom in some way; I don't think she has a malicious bone in her body. I do, however, think that the two of them might be more similar, and more suited to each other, than the RF might like or be prepared to admit.

I agree--the idea of Sarah "having the goods" on Andrew sounds too much like blackmail, to me. Sarah must know a few dirty secrets about all the royals, not just Andrew; but (apart from the questionable reference to Diana's warts) she's never spilled them.

But I have always thought that Sarah is a more over-the-top, reckless version of Andrew...or that she does what Andrew wishes he could do, which is why he was attracted to her.

The Epstein story reaffirms what I first thought when I heard about the access-to-Andrew scandal. I thought, then, that Andrew must have known or suspected something about what Sarah was doing, but turned a blind eye. However, Buckingham Palace firmly denied that he knew anything. Now, though, it seems to be a similar situation--Andrew was keeping company with someone who was doing something illegal (and worse than anything Sarah's ever done, frankly) but apparently turned a blind eye to the goings-on. I find myself going back to my earlier theory--that Andrew deliberately doesn't see what he doesn't want to see.

If you think about it, all the royals, but especially Andrew in his travels, must see a lot of corruption, but learn not to ask questions. I think this is the way Andrew operates. Either he is dumb and doesn't know what happens under his nose (and I don't really think he is that dumb) or he's learned to actually block out things he doesn't want to see.

[Lumutqueen]

FBI to reopen case against Prince Andrew's sex offender friend: Duke may have to claim diplomatic immunity to avoid quiz | Mail Online

The FBI is to reopen its investigation into disgraced financier Jeffrey Epstein following Mail on Sunday revelations about his sexual exploitation of teenage girls and his links with high-profile individuals, including Prince Andrew.
The Bureau wants to interview Esptein’s former personal ‘masseuse’, Virginia Roberts, after she revealed last week that she was recruited as Epstein’s sex slave when she was just 15.

[Lenora]

PM's adviser gives dressing down to Prince Andrew over links to billionaire child sex offender from 6 Mar 2011 - mirror.co.uk

[sliver_bic]

Originally Posted by Mermaid1962

In other words, he practices a "willing ignorance." Perhaps it's a bit like when family members are in denial about an issue such as alcoholism or some kind of vice. Some people have the ability to completely put things out of mind.

The family thing is more long lasting though, self preservation based on an long lasting existing pain. Andrew's is self preservation in the politician's mold. If it doesn't affect him or his ability to bump up business for the UK, he'll ignore it.

As a royal he's not supposed to open his mouth anyway so he's got his cop out and while he may not have had an idea of what was going on at the time, his indifference toward it all after the fact shows his arrogance.

If he did see something he didn't block it out, he ignored it. As the second son; the spare, anything less than a catastrophe will mean he will have all the perks of his title with only a fraction of the responsibilities. I think he thinks himself bulletproof.

[Mermaid1962]

If he has in fact broken the law, he's not above the law that he broke. That's the whole point of a constitutional monarchy. If he does claim diplomatic immunity, it'll be seen as a sign that he was aware of things. I think that he should keep a very low profile for awhile, at the very least.

Originally Posted by sliver_bic

If he did see something he didn't block it out, he ignored it. As the second son; the spare, anything less than a catastrophe will mean he will have all the perks of his title with only a fraction of the responsibilities. I think he thinks himself bulletproof.

[Mermaid1962]

Further developments. If the "sources" are truthful, the Duke is getting a downgrade in his UKTI role.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...aedophile.html

[sliver_bic]

Originally Posted by Mermaid1962

If he has in fact broken the law, he's not above the law that he broke. That's the whole point of a constitutional monarchy. If he does claim diplomatic immunity, it'll be seen as a sign that he was aware of things. I think that he should keep a very low profile for awhile, at the very least.

Diplomatic immunity technically keeps him above the law to a large extent. If he did something in Florida, he'll be barred from the US but he might want to opt for execution considering what his life in the UK will be like.

I don't think firing him would anger the royal family it's what could come from the firing. He needs diplomatic immunity in case the FBI come sniffing. It's one thing to chuck him out, no one would cry over that but to allow a prince of the realm to be brought down, by foreign authorities would be too much. This family, like almost all families, will take care of their own every time, the kingdom be damned.

One senior Conservative figure who has dealings with the Duke described him as a lonely and misguided figure with poor judgment.

“There appears to be no discernible mental activity,” the senior Tory said. “I feel sorry for him. He has no friends and so is surrounded by these vile people.”

{Emphasis added]

Ouch.

[rmay286]

silver_bic, I read that quote too. Whatever Prince Andrew has done, he didn't deserve that. Pathetic. Politicians can sometimes be the nastiest people.

[sliver_bic]

Originally Posted by rmay286

silver_bic, I read that quote too. Whatever Prince Andrew has done, he didn't deserve that. Pathetic. Politicians can sometimes be the nastiest people.

What's truly screwed up about it is that the person was willing to be quoted directly. Normally it's, "An aide for a conservative claims that his boss said blah, blah blah"

It's telling, even without a name, that they'd pull out the blades like that. They want him out in a bad way. You wonder if the government could keep him involved long enough to avoid an investigation.

It just keeps coming.

Abuser paid Fergie's debt: Pressure grows on Andrew after revelation that duchess accepted £15,000 from his billionaire sex offender friend

■ The woman at the centre of the claims, Virginia Roberts, said she was prepared to testify to the FBI about her relationship and time ‘alone’ with the duke;
■ It was revealed that two more women were asked under oath if they had ever had sex with Andrew at Epstein’s mansion. Both declined to answer

[NotAPretender]

Sigh.

So essentially, we're looking at international sex trafficking: underage girls being delivered, like FedEx packages, for use.

OK, well....I think we're done here. Perhaps Andrew will be developing a very contagious cold that prevents his presence at a certain Royal event coming up on the 29th of April. A cold with a very long incubation.....

[sliver_bic]

Originally Posted by NotAPretender

OK, well....I think we're done here. Perhaps Andrew will be developing a very contagious cold that prevents his presence at a certain Royal event coming up on the 29th of April. A cold with a very long incubation.....

Unless we get confirmation, mind you there were claims that there were cameras in Epstein's house, they won't do anything but he has to speak. He has to deny it. He'll keep the job and let his immunity protect him but if a claim is made and he keeps his mouth shut then it's over, the Queen, for all her popularity and grace, simply can't allow the situation to go on without consequence. Protect your son from prosecution? It's what family does. But bring the rod down hard. A welt isn't enough, there needs to be a scar or it will be the family that bears the mark as a whole.

I'm feeling horrible for the girls right now. For all the missteps, they've done nothing horrible, incredibly stupid yes but nothing bad. They'll bear this longer than anyone else.

[Mermaid1962]

The best thing parents can give their children is a good family reputation. I have the sinking feeling that if this "dad's" name isn't cleared, the York title might go down in history as worse than the Clarence one. Sad.

Originally Posted by sliver_bic

I'm feeling horrible for the girls right now. For all the missteps, they've done nothing horrible, incredibly stupid yes but nothing bad. They'll bear this longer than anyone else.

[Mermaid1962]

Unless something nasty happened in the UK that we don't know about yet.

Originally Posted by sliver_bic

Diplomatic immunity technically keeps him above the law to a large extent. If he did something in Florida, he'll be barred from the US but he might want to opt for execution considering what his life in the UK will be like.

[rmay286]

Originally Posted by sliver_bic

Abuser paid Fergie's debt: Pressure grows on Andrew after revelation that duchess accepted £15,000 from his billionaire sex offender friend

What a confusing story. If I'm reading it right, O'Sullivan was Sarah's personal assistant, and she owed him 78,000 pounds. Epstein paid O'Sullivan 15,000 pounds. He was supposed to pay 55,000, until the two had "a falling out." Epstein and O'Sullivan know each other, but this money exchange was on behalf of Sarah, because Sarah owed O'Sullivan money. Sarah claims that Epstein paid O'Sullivan as a favour to Andrew, but Andrew's people say that the deal only involved Sarah's finances. But Sarah "isn't on speaking terms" with Epstein. And Epstein and Andrew were photographed meeting together a few months ago.

Oh, and now Sarah is going to pay O'Sullivan some more money so that he can return the money to Epstein.

The only conclusions I can draw from this story, besides the fact that each person is shifting the blame away from him or herself, is that there are a lot of shady financial exchanges in this world; and Sarah and Andrew appear to have no clue about money.

[Duke of Marmalade]

The Yorks certainly are no advertisement for the monarchy, they are both greedy and arrogant and I reckon thats the reason they still hang out together.

If Andrew had been the first born the monarchy would have been on the verse of collapse already.

[Lumutqueen]

Originally Posted by Duke of Marmalade

The Yorks certainly are no advertisement for the monarchy, they are both greedy and arrogant and I reckon thats the reason they still hang out together.

If Andrew had been the first born the monarchy would have been on the verse of collapse already.

The Yorks - IMO only cover Sarah and Andrew. The girls have done nothing wrong to deserve the treatment they receive from newspapers.
If Andrew was the first born, he wouldn't have acted in this way because he would have known he had a duty to fulfill. I believe he is only like this and was like that because he's confused.

[Roslyn]

Originally Posted by Lumutqueen

If Andrew was the first born, he wouldn't have acted in this way because he would have known he had a duty to fulfill.

His great uncle Edward had a duty to fulfil, and look what happened to him.