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  #741  
Old 01-13-2015, 04:25 AM
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Originally Posted by tommy100 View Post
Whilst I understand why the age of the girls are important from a legal standpoint to me it says a lot about Andrew if he was willing to hang out with girls who were possibly 17 or 18 or even 19. Whilst it might not be illegal and even if there was no sex involved, to me, it's still poor behaviour and wrong.
I don't think that hanging out with the girls with no sex involved is poor behaviour or wrong, I just find it inexplicable. I cannot imagine one reason why Andrew, in his early 40s, would be willing to hang out with girls who were 17 or 18 or even 19 if he didn't have sex with them or at least didn't hope he'd be having sex with them. What on earth could he have in common with them? Popular music? Fashion?
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  #742  
Old 01-13-2015, 04:34 AM
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He wanted to understand how his daughters think I guess
Of course you are right.
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  #743  
Old 01-13-2015, 04:36 AM
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For me Andrew will always have that " dirty old man "feel about him now. While I knew he was no saint the details of the nude pool parties has turned me off him for good.


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  #744  
Old 01-13-2015, 05:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roslyn View Post
I don't think that hanging out with the girls with no sex involved is poor behaviour or wrong, I just find it inexplicable. I cannot imagine one reason why Andrew, in his early 40s, would be willing to hang out with girls who were 17 or 18 or even 19 if he didn't have sex with them or at least didn't hope he'd be having sex with them. What on earth could he have in common with them? Popular music? Fashion?
If we take, for example, people having business dealings that need to be discussed with Hugh Hefner and it takes place at the Playboy Mansion, it would be assumed that there be bunnies aplenty bouncing around but they would just be a backdrop for the business at hand.

Because a man meets a business associate in a bar frequented by call girls doesn't necessarily mean he was there to have an assignation with one. They were a backdrop to the place.

If this was an Epstein party, its very well possible that there were girls aplenty to be seen and even drinks flowing like waterfalls. It doesn't necessarily mean that Andrew had to overly indulge in conversations with the girls other than civil pleasantries or even drink (I believe I've read that Andrew isn't much of a drinker).

We don't know the reason Andrew was there in the first place. Business dealings with Epstein? Could it actually be assumed that the girls were on hand but actually just "backdrop".

I hope this makes sense. Its early yet and I've not had my fair share of caffeine yet to get my day started.
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  #745  
Old 01-13-2015, 06:11 AM
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Oh really !! There is no other place to do business than at a pool party with nude young girls ?????? It would have been shady business. Please no more excuses for a grubby prince


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  #746  
Old 01-13-2015, 06:45 AM
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Originally Posted by royal rob View Post
Oh really !! There is no other place to do business than at a pool party with nude young girls ?????? It would have been shady business. Please no more excuses for a grubby prince
OK.. lets switch it around a bit. Perhaps there was a good golf course around and Epstein invited Andrew to play a few rounds. Lots of business deals happen on a golf course. Maybe Andrew stayed at Epstein's place where Epstein had other guests that did avail themselves of the pleasure of the young girls' company, drank excessively and partied till the cows came home.

The point I'm trying to make is that even if something is there, its possible that it was just "backdrop" for whatever other purpose was the primary reason for being there.
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  #747  
Old 01-13-2015, 06:51 AM
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Nope sorry a decent person wouldn't conduct business at nude pool party with young nude girls that gave private massage. Not the way royals do business. How would you feel if that was Charles doing it ? Or if your partner was doing it ?


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  #748  
Old 01-13-2015, 07:27 AM
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Originally Posted by royal rob View Post
Nope sorry a decent person wouldn't conduct business at nude pool party with young nude girls that gave private massage. Not the way royals do business. How would you feel if that was Charles doing it ? Or if your partner was doing it ?
Perhaps the "nude pool party" wasn't the norm. It obviously was an environment that Mr. Dershowitz felt comfortable bringing his wife and daughter into.
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  #749  
Old 01-13-2015, 07:34 AM
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Oh there's plenty of evidence that it was the norm. As to why a man would take his wife and child there I have no answer but the word disgusting comes to mind.
And once again I can not think of what royal business would need to be done there and not in a business office. We are not talking about about Joe Blow but the BRF


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  #750  
Old 01-13-2015, 07:45 AM
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can't see why you are all getting heated up about nude swimming - I love to do it - and occasionally, there are also friends here while I'm having a swim.

Swimming naked is not illegal!

I do understand, if wives do not want there husbands to be at a pool party with sexual overtones, but Andrew was allready divorced. But even so it wouldn't be illegal.

When I look to the list of Andrews girlfriends, they do not look like he is into nubile girls but goodlooking women.

While I think it showed very poor judgment of Andrew to be present at such parties, considering who he and his family is, it's not illegal.

Till we know more, we cannot condem him for more than poor judgment - everything else is allegation and speculation.
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  #751  
Old 01-13-2015, 07:52 AM
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Your welcome to your opinion as I am to mine. And to me he is a sleazy dirty old man with no morals and mixes with the worst type of people. A man who was jailed for child sex called him a friend. You can't get worse than that.


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  #752  
Old 01-13-2015, 08:23 AM
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Here's an article about Andrew which sums up quite nicely why he should not just happen to be "doing business" at Epstein's pool parties:

Prince Andrew does a fabulous job: as a gift to republicans that keeps on giving | Hadley Freeman | Comment is free | The Guardian

Here's a great quote:

Life tip to Andrew: when you find yourself having to make a statement that you did not commit statutory rape while hanging out with your sex offender mate, it’s a sign you need to take a cold, hard look at your life.
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  #753  
Old 01-13-2015, 08:32 AM
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Great quote thanks GracieGiraffe sums it all up perfectly


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  #754  
Old 01-13-2015, 10:50 AM
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Video:
Sarah Ferguson defends 'good man' Prince Andrew on underage sex claims-
Sarah Ferguson defends 'good man' Prince Andrew on underage sex claims - News - TODAY.com

I think it's great that Sarah stands and supports Andrew during this very hard time. I don't know if Andrew did or didn't do what he's accused of, but it's great to have your family in your corner.
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  #755  
Old 01-13-2015, 11:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
OK.. lets switch it around a bit. Perhaps there was a good golf course around and Epstein invited Andrew to play a few rounds. Lots of business deals happen on a golf course. Maybe Andrew stayed at Epstein's place where Epstein had other guests that did avail themselves of the pleasure of the young girls' company, drank excessively and partied till the cows came home.

The point I'm trying to make is that even if something is there, its possible that it was just "backdrop" for whatever other purpose was the primary reason for being there.
Well Andrew did admit that he received massages from the girls while hanging at Epstein's mansion. So he did partake a little. There are also 2 or 3 former Epstein employees, that testified that Andrew frequently visited and was quite often seen poolside, or getting massages. Now whether Andrew actually knew all these women were underage, is the question.
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  #756  
Old 01-13-2015, 11:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by royal rob View Post
Don't think Andrew would have been using his "brain " at all.
It's very naive to think these sort of parties don't happen and that royals aren't involved.
Whatever happened or didn't happened. Andrew was at pool party's with nude young women even if not under aged ... Not a good look IMO and not the sort of person I would want to know


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It may not be a "good look", however it is NOT criminal activity. You also might be surprised at the people you know, who you might not want to know, if you knew everything about them.
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  #757  
Old 01-13-2015, 11:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Princess of Durham View Post
It may not be a "good look", however it is NOT criminal activity. You also might be surprised at the people you know, who you might not want to know, if you knew everything about them.
We don't know if all the girls involved were over the age of consent or not. It seems as though Jane Doe #3 was over the age of consent at the time, even though she wasn't legally an adult. Therefore, it wouldn't have been criminal if he had sex with her, but I'm still disgusted by the thought.

I understand Osipi's point that Andrew may have been physically present but didn't engage in any of the more salacious activities. Even if that is true and he was simply present with naked girls by the pool, it doesn't change the fact that he continued his relationship with Epstein even after Epstein's conviction.

I think the quote from Gracie's post sums my thoughts up nicely.
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  #758  
Old 01-13-2015, 02:00 PM
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Am I the only one that doesn't see the problem getting massages from young girls? Yes, if the massages was something more. But I don't think getting a normal massage from a girl should be something to be frowned upon. If I go into a spa and get a massage it doesn't matter what age the person is.
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  #759  
Old 01-13-2015, 03:09 PM
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Originally Posted by hernameispekka View Post
Am I the only one that doesn't see the problem getting massages from young girls? Yes, if the massages was something more. But I don't think getting a normal massage from a girl should be something to be frowned upon. If I go into a spa and get a massage it doesn't matter what age the person is.
Well, a normal massage for me means going to a health spa or therapy centre where someone is properly employed (and certified) to give a massage for the benefit of ones health and relaxation. Anything outside of this is what one might describe as being "dodgy".
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  #760  
Old 01-13-2015, 03:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hernameispekka View Post
Am I the only one that doesn't see the problem getting massages from young girls? Yes, if the massages was something more. But I don't think getting a normal massage from a girl should be something to be frowned upon. If I go into a spa and get a massage it doesn't matter what age the person is.

She started giving massages at 15. Far to young. IMO teens should not be giving massages - too young. Adult masseuses have, from time to time, been known to have issues with clients trying to take advantage or prssure them for more. In regards to this case, At that age I can't imagine the coersion in trying to get more than a massage by epsteines & associates. At that age, how well equiped mentally do you think she could deal with that?!

Just guessing, but if her parents allowed her to travel alone, they appear to not have been involved with her much. Responsible parents would not allow their teen daughter to go anywhere with an older guy alone.
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