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  #521  
Old 01-05-2015, 02:48 PM
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Originally Posted by ladongas View Post
And as to whether this girl's parents were attentive enough to her well-being... Even if they were terrible, careless parents, it doesn't mean that she should have been raped with impunity. Let's blame the rapist(s), not the victim's parents.
Did someone say that? I don't think so. Thought is a process. Her parents obviously thought it was OK for her to be involved in something like that, therefore my conclusion is what it is. Daddy is complicit.
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  #522  
Old 01-05-2015, 02:52 PM
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Originally Posted by KittyAtlanta View Post
Did someone say that? I don't think so. Thought is a process. Her parents obviously thought it was OK for her to be involved in something like that, therefore my conclusion is what it is. Daddy is complicit.
So both her father and Epstein were pimping her out? That doesn't shift the blame for what may have happened to this girl.
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  #523  
Old 01-05-2015, 02:53 PM
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Originally Posted by ladongas View Post
...
Too bad he and Sarah couldn't have been encouraged to stay married or to remarry in these past decades....
On the contrary: I believe Andrew & Sarah would still be married, if they where not been pressured to get a divorce. One of them was probably Prince Philip - and the media of course...

Apart from that, when you look at the women Andrew asociates with, I don't get the impression he is into underaged girls for sex
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  #524  
Old 01-05-2015, 03:00 PM
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Parents have a very hard job. You raise your kids with the best of your ability and try to help them find the right path, but once the kids become teenagers, things can become very interesting. You can't watch teenagers 24/7 and God knows what they can find themselves doing at those ages. In many cases, parents loose their grip on the kids and all the parents can do is hope and pray that their children won't get themselves involved in something dangerous. At some point, you can't place fault with the parents, but hold these teenagers accountable for their own actions.

If these kids are raped, sexually abused or what have you, those who carry out these horrible crimes must be legally dealt with. The blame is usually placed on the victims and even more so for women.
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  #525  
Old 01-05-2015, 03:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Nice Nofret View Post
On the contrary: I believe Andrew & Sarah would still be married, if they where not been pressured to get a divorce. One of them was probably Prince Philip - and the media of course...

Apart from that, when you look at the women Andrew asociates with, I don't get the impression he is into underaged girls for sex
I was always puzzled that none of the Queen's divorcing children seemed to make an effort at reconciliation, counseling, etc. Most ordinary people make an effort to save their marriages.
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  #526  
Old 01-05-2015, 03:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Dman View Post
Parents have a very hard job. You raise your kids with the best of your ability and try to help them find the right path, but once the kids become teenagers, things can become very interesting. You can't watch teenagers 24/7 and God knows what they can find themselves doing at those ages. In many cases, parents loose their grip on the kids and all the parents can do is hope and pray that their children won't get themselves involved in something dangerous. At some point, you can't place fault with the parents, but hold these teenagers accountable for their own actions.

If these kids are raped, sexually abused or what have you, those who carry out these horrible crimes must be legally dealt with. The blame is usually placed on the victims and even more so for women.
AMEN! And when/if they do get into difficulties of whatever sort, most parents will move heaven and earth to save their kids.
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  #527  
Old 01-05-2015, 03:06 PM
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Originally Posted by ladongas View Post
I was always puzzled that none of the Queen's divorcing children seemed to make an effort at reconciliation, counseling, etc. Most ordinary people make an effort to save their marriages.
I think it's the case of not want any outsiders in their business. Andrew and Sarah have managed to keep their family together, despite their separation/divorce and personal drama. I think they have done very well with their family. The same can be said if Anne and Mark. I think Charles & Diana was heading down that road before she died.

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Originally Posted by ladongas View Post
AMEN! And when/if they do get into difficulties of whatever sort, most parents will move heaven and earth to save their kids.
True indeed. The parents can only do so much. It's the kids that have to meet them halfway. Times are changing so fast with all this modern technology (which I think could be humans downfall) and it's getting even harder to protect your children from the dangers of the world.
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  #528  
Old 01-05-2015, 03:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Eden View Post
Andrew is guilty by association. How can a father of two daughters not question why young girls are hired to travel the world to give 'massages' to friends and colleagues of Epstein? If a friend of mine had such an arrangement I would question it. Whether he slept with this or other young girls is irrelevant, he is guilty of complacency, guilty of shutting his mouth and agreeing to this type of 'massage'!!
As for the parents of these young girls, where were they! For crying out loud when grown men want to take my young daughters overseas to provide massages!! I would be concerned! At 17 years old my daughter is not qualified enough to be considered for such a job AND what would groups of men want with my 17 year old daughter?
Too much of look-the-other-way and pretend nothing is happening. Andrew should be ashamed, having sex with her or any other girl or not, he is a guilty man! How on earth can you not know?!


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I agree. I think his real crime is depraved indifference.
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  #529  
Old 01-05-2015, 04:08 PM
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Fergie comes out fighting for Prince Andrew as she says York family 'is tight unit' | Daily Mail Online
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  #530  
Old 01-05-2015, 04:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Dman View Post
Parents have a very hard job. You raise your kids with the best of your ability and try to help them find the right path, but once the kids become teenagers, things can become very interesting. You can't watch teenagers 24/7 and God knows what they can find themselves doing at those ages.In many cases, parents loose their grip on the kids and all the parents can do is hope and pray that their children won't get themselves involved in something dangerous. At some point, you can't place fault with the parents, but hold these teenagers accountable for their own actions.
If these kids are raped, sexually abused or what have you, those who carry out these horrible crimes must be legally dealt with.The blame is usually placed on the victims and even more so for women.
I can not possibly disagree with you more (except perhaps the last sentence--although it is inconsistent with your point about holding teenagers accountable). There is no way that I would let my 17 year old daughter travel for "massages." If I couldn't have reasoned with my child, I would have been on the phone with the police, lawyers, the airlines, whoever would have listened!

Parents have a responsibility to protect their children, even if it makes the child angry. It's our job.

The father of the girl in this case sounds like a completely scumbag. I have seen nothing that indicates that he expressed any alarm when his 17-year old daughter went overseas with an older man, and yet now he's expressing shock that there was sex involved? (gosh, who could have known?)

And, no, I am not saying the girl deserved to be raped or trafficked. I am saying that her father is a scumbag who should be prosecuted for failure to protect his child.
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  #531  
Old 01-05-2015, 04:22 PM
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Originally Posted by US Royal Watcher View Post
I can not possibly disagree with you more (except perhaps the last sentence--although it is inconsistent with your point about holding teenagers accountable). There is no way that I would let my 17 year old daughter travel for "massages." If I couldn't have reasoned with my child, I would have been on the phone with the police, lawyers, the airlines, whoever would have listened!

Parents have a responsibility to protect their children, even if it makes the child angry. It's our job.

The father of the girl in this case sounds like a completely scumbag. I have seen nothing that indicates that he expressed any alarm when his 17-year old daughter went overseas with an older man, and yet now he's expressing shock that there was sex involved? (gosh, who could have known?)

And, no, I am not saying the girl deserved to be raped or trafficked. I am saying that her father is a scumbag who should be prosecuted for failure to protect his child.
Young adults must be held accountable for their own actions and, yes, parents must do everything they can to help protect their children, but once the children are in their late teens, it becomes harder to watch what the kids are doing. You can't watch them 24/7, at those ages, and sometimes the kids often tell you a bold face lie on what their doing.
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  #532  
Old 01-05-2015, 04:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Dman View Post
Young adults must be held accountable for their own actions and, yes, parents must do everything they can to help protect their children, but once the children are in their late teens, it becomes harder to watch what the kids are doing. You can't watch them 24/7, at those ages, and sometimes the kids often tell you a bold face lie on what their doing.
At 17, she was not an adult. If she had been 18, you would have an argument. There are many things parents can't realistically control (like what they do after school), but we can stop our minor children from traveling internationally, particularly for the purpose of giving a massage. Only a complete idiot wouldn't have known what was going on.
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  #533  
Old 01-05-2015, 04:51 PM
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One of our local middle schools recently discontinued a 25 year tradition of taking the eighth graders on a 4 night trip to Washington DC.

Although its educational value was great, the kids couldn't be trusted in the hotels. Sex, drugs, alcohol, pranks.

No parent or educator gave them permission to behave that way, and the kids signed statements promising good behavior. Even kids as young as 12 can do really horrible things when away from home, regardless of how noble and wholesome the purpose of the trip.

Parents want to trust the good judgement of their kids, but frequently they can't. Some parents are naive, some are callous.
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  #534  
Old 01-05-2015, 05:11 PM
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Prince Andrew's friend Jeffrey Epstein 'used aggressive witness tampering to prevent truth coming out' - Telegraph
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The Duke of York's former friend Jeffrey Epstein used "aggressive witness tampering" on employees who later refused to answer questions about whether the Duke slept with underage girls, according to US investigators.

Epstein is also said to have bankrolled the legal fees of witnesses who invoked their right to silence to avoid answering whether young girls were “provided for sex” to the Duke.

Lawyers representing women who were sexually abused by Epstein have complained bitterly that it became “impossible” to gather evidence from vital witnesses because so many of them had legal representation paid for by Epstein, a billionaire investment banker.
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  #535  
Old 01-05-2015, 05:19 PM
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Originally Posted by ladongas View Post
One of our local middle schools recently discontinued a 25 year tradition of taking the eighth graders on a 4 night trip to Washington DC.

Although its educational value was great, the kids couldn't be trusted in the hotels. Sex, drugs, alcohol, pranks.

No parent or educator gave them permission to behave that way, and the kids signed statements promising good behavior. Even kids as young as 12 can do really horrible things when away from home, regardless of how noble and wholesome the purpose of the trip.

Parents want to trust the good judgement of their kids, but frequently they can't. Some parents are naive, some are callous.
I'm not sure what you are saying here. There are a lot of behaviors that parents can't control, but it seems as though the girl in this case had the parents' permission to fly all over the world with Epstein for the purpose of giving massages. That is quite different than your child lying about spending the night at a friend's house.
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  #536  
Old 01-05-2015, 06:06 PM
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Originally Posted by US Royal Watcher View Post
I'm not sure what you are saying here. There are a lot of behaviors that parents can't control, but it seems as though the girl in this case had the parents' permission to fly all over the world with Epstein for the purpose of giving massages. That is quite different than your child lying about spending the night at a friend's house.
That's true, but do we know what exactly what the young lady told her father she was going to do?

Also, (I just want to mention) this takes nothing away from the fact that this young lady may have been sexually assaulted and by some high profile people. If that's the case, they should be legally dealt with. If not, then this young lady and the other "Jane Doe's" should be taken to court by the accused.
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  #537  
Old 01-05-2015, 06:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Dman View Post
That's true, but do we know what exactly what the young lady told her father she was going to do?

Also, (I just want to mention) this takes nothing away from the fact that this young lady may have been sexually assaulted and by some high profile people. If that's the case, they should be legally dealt with. If not, then this young lady and the other "Jane Doe's" should be taken to court by the accused.
I suggest you reread the Daily Mail article 'If Prince Andrew had sex with my daughter he should be prosecuted', says Virginia Roberts' father | Daily Mail Online. The scumbag father says he never asked any questions because he didn't think about it.

I can't imagine my husband's reaction if our 17-year old daughter had told us that she wanted to fly to Great Britain to give someone a massage, but I can tell you that he would have had a ton of questions (and comments)! Wouldn't your parents have at least SOME questions?
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  #538  
Old 01-05-2015, 06:35 PM
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Originally Posted by US Royal Watcher View Post
I suggest you reread the Daily Mail article 'If Prince Andrew had sex with my daughter he should be prosecuted', says Virginia Roberts' father | Daily Mail Online. The scumbag father says he never asked any questions because he didn't think about it.

I can't imagine my husband's reaction if our 17-year old daughter had told us that she wanted to fly to Great Britain to give someone a massage, but I can tell you that he would have had a ton of questions (and comments)! Wouldn't your parents have at least SOME questions?
Oh, my parents would look at me like I had totally lost my mind. They would've told me to massage somewhere and sit down.
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  #539  
Old 01-05-2015, 07:04 PM
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Originally Posted by US Royal Watcher View Post
I suggest you reread the Daily Mail article 'If Prince Andrew had sex with my daughter he should be prosecuted', says Virginia Roberts' father | Daily Mail Online. The scumbag father says he never asked any questions because he didn't think about it.

I can't imagine my husband's reaction if our 17-year old daughter had told us that she wanted to fly to Great Britain to give someone a massage, but I can tell you that he would have had a ton of questions (and comments)! Wouldn't your parents have at least SOME questions?

I can't imagine letting my daughter give massages at 17, let alone fly anywhere to do so!!! Something just doesn't add up.
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  #540  
Old 01-05-2015, 07:13 PM
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I can't imagine letting my daughter give massages at 17, let alone fly anywhere to do so!!! Something just doesn't add up.
You are right, it doesn't add up. My understanding is that most trafficking victims are cut off from their families and friends because they are runaways. I'm not saying the girl wasn't victimized--it's possible. But she is alleging she was forced to do it. If that is true, what hold did Epstein have over her? She was at least communicating with her parents. Had she moved out? How close to 18 was she? Was she out of school?
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