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  #401  
Old 01-04-2015, 07:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by royal rob View Post
A friendship is based on people having the same interests and values so if it was just a friendship then Andrew would have to have the same values as this disgusting person


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I disagree. You can have friends with whom you share only some values and some interests. As there is usually good and bad in everyone, maybe it's the good traits that Andrew shares.


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  #402  
Old 01-04-2015, 07:23 AM
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Really !! The man is a convicted sex offender !!!!! Don't see how you could be friends !!


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  #403  
Old 01-04-2015, 07:34 AM
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Proverb
a man is known by the company he keeps

People are similar in character to their friends.


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  #404  
Old 01-04-2015, 07:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by royal rob View Post
Really !! The man is a convicted sex offender !!!!! Don't see how you could be friends !!


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Then you must've not experienced very much in life. Not saying it's right (it's clearly wrong), but we are all often friends with those who do wrong or live other lives when they aren't around us. Especially if you are Prince Andrew--can't imagine too many of his friends show their full light to him.
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  #405  
Old 01-04-2015, 07:45 AM
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I have a lot of experience and no way in hell would I be friends with a convicted sex offender . Some of those girls were 13 or 14 Really some people can't see a royal do any wrong.


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  #406  
Old 01-04-2015, 07:49 AM
Serene Highness
 
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Quote:
A friendship is based on people having the same interests and values so if it was just a friendship then Andrew would have to have the same values as this disgusting person
Most people, [myself included] have friendships with a wide variety of individuals, with whom they share interests and values..
If one of those friends was accused of having a paedophile aspect to their character, how does that prove their friend shares that character trait ? I have many straight friends [with whom I share interests and values], but we do NOT share the same sexual tastes or activities, since I am gay. Guilt BY ASSOCIATION is a vicious accusation, and unworthy of any sane or reasonable person IMO.
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  #407  
Old 01-04-2015, 08:04 AM
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He continued to be is friend knowing what he had done ... No excuses. Being friends with people who are gay or straight or whatever is TOTALY different to being friends with a convicted sex offender ... Really I can't believe you don't see that. Think I'm done for the night so disappointed in people what is this world coming too little girls used for sex and people are defending it because a royal is involved


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  #408  
Old 01-04-2015, 08:07 AM
Duke of Marmalade's Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wyevale View Post
Most people, [myself included] have friendships with a wide variety of individuals, with whom they share interests and values..
If one of those friends was accused of having a paedophile aspect to their character, how does that prove their friend shares that character trait ? I have many straight friends [with whom I share interests and values], but we do NOT share the same sexual tastes or activities, since I am gay. Guilt BY ASSOCIATION is a vicious accusation, and unworthy of any sane or reasonable person IMO.
Prince Andrew is a public person, the second son of the Queen. He is not private Joe Average. Other than than, being gay is not a crime, being a phaedophile or a sex offender is. If you have half a brain cell as a public person in Andrew's position, you distance yourself from a convicted criminal even if you think that this person is a nice guy despite his conviction.

And just to add - maybe its ok to still associate with a criminal who committed a crime that is excusable or maye understandable, considering the circumstances - sex offender crimes, especially with underage, are NEVER excusable or understandable.
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  #409  
Old 01-04-2015, 08:16 AM
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Now could be a good time for the younger children of the Queen to retire from public life, as in the Spanish RF.
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  #410  
Old 01-04-2015, 08:28 AM
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Originally Posted by royal-blue View Post
Now could be a good time for the younger children of the Queen to retire from public life, as in the Spanish RF.

There is absolutely no reason for Anne, Edward or Sophie to retire. They have done nothing wrong, they work a darn sight harder than younger members of the Royal Family and they provide sterling support for their charities and the Queen.


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  #411  
Old 01-04-2015, 08:35 AM
Serene Highness
 
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I've got to laugh at those saying innocent until proven guilty. The moment Rolf Harris was arrested the Queen sent his portrait back-no waiting for the outcome of the trial, that was it. I am also one of those astonished at people trying to defend his friendship with this guy after his term in prison. Who would want to be a close pal of a sex offender unless you were a sleazebag yourself? Yuk!!!! Most fathers of daughters, as Andrew is, would want to give the guy a punch in the face, not hang out with him.
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  #412  
Old 01-04-2015, 08:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by royal rob View Post
He continued to be is friend knowing what he had done ... No excuses. Being friends with people who are gay or straight or whatever is TOTALY different to being friends with a convicted sex offender ... Really I can't believe you don't see that. Think I'm done for the night so disappointed in people what is this world coming too little girls used for sex and people are defending it because a royal is involved


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Nobody is excusing paedophilia but there are broad general comments being made. There are also comments being made by people who are basing them on news reports that may or may not be accurate and on a poor understanding of law. Comments are also being made without a knowledge of ALL the facts. That is what people are responding to, not excusing sex abuse.


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  #413  
Old 01-04-2015, 08:41 AM
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Prince Andrew flies back from skiing holiday to tell Queen he's innocent of underage sex allegations - but does he have immunity under deal with US government? | Daily Mail Online
For what it's worth (being the info is from DM), but an emergency discussion with the Queen does seem a mighty good thing..

by the way: imo P.Edward or P.Anne should not step down from their responsibilities as they are doing a fine job (just like in Spain (the comparison was made above) P.Elena should not step down because her sister is involved in the Noos trial)
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  #414  
Old 01-04-2015, 08:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rmay286 View Post
Oh, I agree that Prince Andrew often hangs around with questionable people. I'm sure there is more that goes on behind the scenes than even the Daily Mail can uncover. I don't think Andrew has very good judgment, really. It's just that he has associated with questionable people before, and after an initial outcry, it hasn't ever forced him to resign...and frankly, a lot of people in public positions hang around with shady characters.

Spending time with a convicted pedophile is pretty sketchy; but it really depends on what UKTI decides. Public outry in the papers alone can't affect Andrew's role one way or the other.

I must say, though, that on the whole I don't think Andrew is any better a judge of people than Sarah is. She's just much more of a risk-taker and ends up doing questionable things, publicly, with the aforesaid people...but neither of them seem to have good sense when it comes to who they associate with.
Nevertheless, despite Prince Andrew's questionable choice of associates, the witness who cited him in that civil lawsuit ( to which Andrew is not a part BTW) doesn't seem to be particularly credible.
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  #415  
Old 01-04-2015, 09:47 AM
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We talk about him hanging around with certain people as though he is some kind of innocent who can't tell how bad these people are. He's a grown man and if these are the kind of people he likes then his character has to come into question too. You can't refer to them being shady or dodgy but say that he isn't. As Forrest Gump might have put it, shady is as shady does.
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  #416  
Old 01-04-2015, 09:53 AM
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Quote:
comments are also being made without a knowledge of all the facts. That is what people are responding to, not excusing sex abuse.
Exactly so !
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  #417  
Old 01-04-2015, 10:06 AM
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We should stick to facts and it is a fact that Andrew remained friends with and met with Epstein after his conviction for sex offences and after he had been required to register as a sex offender. That is a fact that no one is denying.
To me that was an unforgivable error from Andrew and to me shows Andrew to hold low moral values. I would say the same about anyone who knowingly stayed friends with someone convicted of the same crimes including any of my own friends.
IMO royals should expect to be held to higher account than most (whether right or not history shows they are) but really in this case which ever way you look at it Andrew was wrong to remain friends with Epstein.
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  #418  
Old 01-04-2015, 11:08 AM
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Even if this particular witness isn't deemed credible, she's not the only that has accused Prince Andrew. Back in 2011, Epstein's maintenance man stated in his sworn deposition, that he saw Prince Andrew getting "daily massages" from girls at Epstein's Flordia mansion. When questioned, the Palace acknowledged that Andrew did visit Epstein's home and received massages. Although they stated it was just massages that transpired.

This is from a 2011 article: What was the Duke of York thinking? - Telegraph

Quote:
Another witness who lodged court papers was Juan Alessi, Epstein's maintenance man. His deposition says the Duke spent "weeks" at the Florida house sleeping in the main guest bedroom and having "daily massages". Last week he told The Sunday Telegraph that the Duke had visited the house "three or four times". Buckingham Palace denies the Duke was ever at the house for longer than a few days at a time, pointing out that an absence of weeks would have been noted by royal watchers.
Quote:
Last night, the royal aide admitted for the first time that the Duke had also received massages at the Florida mansion, but said that they had no sexual overtones. The aide said: "He is not denying having a massage, but that in itself does not represent impropriety. If he is guilty of having a massage then he is guilty of having a massage."

For Epstein the massages were certainly more than a mere rub down. Some court papers paint a sordid picture of the goings on in Palm Beach, where Miss Maxwell allegedly ran the household.
So let's say that Prince Andrew only participated in massages, once he found out that Epstein was using underage girls why did he still stay friends with him? Most people want to steer clear of someone that was a convicted sex offender. Why did Andrew fly out to New York and stay with Epstein after his release from jail? More importantly, if Andrew was not aware that Epstein was using young girls, why wasn't he furious at Epstein for putting him in a situation where he had to defend himself against these accusations?

I have no idea if Andrew was aware or not, but I do know that he has used incredibly poor judgement after the fact.
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  #419  
Old 01-04-2015, 11:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PetticoatLane View Post
Let's also not forget the way pretty much all of Hollywood, as well as the great and good of Europe, trip over themselves to fawn all over Roman Polanski who admits having sex with a 13-year old.
He admitted to raping end drugging her. There is a difference. And I remember that list. Can’t believe how people managed to tell themselves it was all just fine and not that bad. I also think a lot of people on that list didn’t really know the facts. Emma Thompson being one.

Also, I wonder how much it matters wether he actively participated. Let’s say someone has knowledge of a crime (sex with underage girls) but doesn’t participate. Doesn’t he have some sort of responsibility to take action (as in report the crime)? And if he doesn’t, but continues to frequent place isn’t only a little less guilty that if he did have sex with said girls?
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  #420  
Old 01-04-2015, 11:48 AM
Serene Highness
 
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PA is in a photo with this girl, if he didn't have sex with her then wouldn't he at least have asked his friend who she was and why she was there? The obvious answer to that is that he had seen enough in Epstein's world not to have to ask. As I said before, how could a father of two young daughters himself spend time with such a creep? It's going to be practically impossible to prove that PA sexually abused this girl as it's always a difficult crime to prove or disprove but I have zero respect for him now anyway.
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