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  #21  
Old 02-27-2011, 09:53 AM
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Will he though? I think he's enjoyed the fact that's he's "the spare" and isn't even needed unless there's a massive catastrophe. He likes riding planes and helicopters and meeting important people. Maybe he actually has small man syndrome because he's the second son. I'm not sure but I don't see him just bowing all that easily.

By the way, Epstein isn't a pedophile. A pedophile is a person who's sexually attracted to children. I'm not defending him on what he did, he got his comeuppance but there's pervert and then there's sick, he's the former.
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  #22  
Old 02-27-2011, 01:13 PM
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In my mind, a 15-year-old is a child. Plus, the girl in the article we're discussing was a vulnerable teenager who seemed to be willing to do anything for security.

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Originally Posted by sliver_bic View Post
By the way, Epstein isn't a pedophile. A pedophile is a person who's sexually attracted to children. I'm not defending him on what he did, he got his comeuppance but there's pervert and then there's sick, he's the former.
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  #23  
Old 02-27-2011, 01:41 PM
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Time to go Andrew - live on one of Mummy's estates and stay away from the public life for the next 40 years.
That's a ridiculous assumption to make IMO. He cannot just disappear like that.
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  #24  
Old 02-27-2011, 02:14 PM
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Perhaps what he needs to do is spend more time in the UK focusing on where he's needed there rather than flying around the world meeting with questionable characters. It's not like he can be stripped of his HRH and his military rank, and no-one wants a member of the RF who sits around doing nothing to contribute to the nation.


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He cannot just disappear like that.
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  #25  
Old 02-27-2011, 02:22 PM
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His job entails him to fly around the country. I know his friends are questionable, but he shouldn't hide away from everything and become a recluse.
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  #26  
Old 02-27-2011, 03:29 PM
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I'm not suggesting that he should. So much of the criticism that's thrown at him seems to happen when he's outside the UK, though; especially when he's in places like former Soviet Republics or being entertained in regimes like Libya. I know that he likely goes to these people at the request of the government to achieve particular things through UKTI. But when he does business with a foreign government and then sells his house to someone from that nation, something doesn't look right. I've never been one to be suspicious of Andrew, but I think that things are at the point now that something has to give. I'm not sure what.

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I know his friends are questionable, but he shouldn't hide away from everything and become a recluse.
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  #27  
Old 02-27-2011, 03:39 PM
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I don't think Andrew's job is a good one for any member of the royal family to hold, even an otherwise "good", ethical person. His job requires him to mix politics and business to an extent, and I don't think that's something a royal should be getting mixed up in.
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  #28  
Old 02-27-2011, 04:58 PM
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The Duke of Kent had the position before Andrew took it on, and I don't remember him ever being involved in anything questionable. I think that there are a couple of things going on here: The Duke of York has a higher profile than the Duke of Kent, and he's always been considered to be the "wild one" in the family. Also, The Daily Mail seems to really have it in for the Yorks for some reason. There's something about Andrew's personality plus his international friendships that gets him into these scrapes.
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  #29  
Old 02-27-2011, 05:36 PM
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The DM would like Britain to become a Republic and the Yorks, Charles and Camilla are the ones they attack because they know they are the ones that people like the least.

William and Harry are sacrosanct because they are Diana's sons and she couldn't be touched and her sons can't be either but the rest of the family are fair game - particularly the unpopular and even hated Yorks. They are able to use them to show a side of the royals that the DM wish to emphasise - poor judgement, lazy etc (conveniently ignoring the fact that the girls are at uni but emphasising the fact that they don't 'do anything' - William didn't either at the same age but don't let the facts get in the way of a good story).

That being said - I do think it is time for Andrew to step down from this position - his own position is too far gone to be credible any more.
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  #30  
Old 02-27-2011, 05:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Lumutqueen View Post
That's a ridiculous assumption to make IMO. He cannot just disappear like that.

It is not ridiculous. The more he does the more he makes the wrong decisions and the more damage he is doing to the family.

While he has a high profile he will continue to damage the institution so teh Queen needs to step in and remove him from view so that he can't continue to pile on bad press on bad press.

When was the last time there was a 'good' story about Andrew? Even when he visits troops he gets bad press.

He can easily 'disappear' by taking on a different job for Mummy and keeping out of the public eye. How many people would even notice if he didn't attend the Trooping the Colour or some other such royal funciton - outside of boards like this - no one.
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  #31  
Old 02-27-2011, 08:04 PM
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As I understand it, Epstein's financial brilliance has never once been questioned, despite his unspeakable behaviour in other areas. It seems, therefore, possible that Prince Andrew was consulting Epstein about financial matters last December which may have been of long standing (he certainly looks very worried). It was extremely foolish, to say the least, as it brought an old news story to the fore, years after the event. I find nothing untoward in the earlier friendship (the prince was merely one in a rather prestigious cabal) but Andrew's judgment here, post Epstein's conviction, is open to serious question.

I'd be pleased to learn that he was actually winding up his financial affairs with this man.
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  #32  
Old 02-27-2011, 09:02 PM
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For reasons which should be obvious...

I truly hope that William and Catherine reproduce early and often.
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  #33  
Old 02-27-2011, 09:22 PM
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I truly hope that William and Catherine reproduce early and often.
You say this like that would push Andrew out of the picture. Those children will be a quarter century from being able to do anything seriously and that's if they choose to. Aside from the heir the other children might not be seen as necessary because we can't assume that the monarchy would have the same role in a few decades as it does now, if it continues to exist at all.

Strange that no one's commented on this part:

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She said: ‘Ghislaine put the puppet’s hand on Virginia’s breast, then Andrew put his hand on my breast. It was a great joke. Everybody laughed.’ After this, Virginia was paid, by Epstein, around $400 (£250).’
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  #34  
Old 02-28-2011, 12:32 AM
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You say this like that would push Andrew out of the picture. Those children will be a quarter century from being able to do anything seriously and that's if they choose to.
It would put Andrew further away from the throne. Right now he's 4th.
His dealings with Quadaffi are repugnant to me.
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  #35  
Old 02-28-2011, 12:56 AM
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I wonder what the nature of his dealings with Gaddafi were (and I do note that even major newspapers can't agree on the spelling of the man's name!) It was Qaddafi for a long time, I thought.

Anyway, Qaddafi's attempts position his son as his successor are monarchically-styled aims. For a ruling monarch's family member to meet with a person who may have dubious claims to their own rule doesn't seem quite right, but I would like to understand the reason or the precedent for it.

Qaddafi banks in London, and someone upthread mentioned that the other questionable person Prince Andrew was seen with was a financier. I wonder what PA's official business in Libya might have been (if any, was it a state visit?)
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  #36  
Old 02-28-2011, 01:57 AM
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Andrew's role often means he goes to places for the government and meets with people that we ordinary people regard as unsavoury - such as dictators and the like. The British government has had, and continues to have, dealings with these countries and Andrew's role is to assist in business transactions for Britons and for the government.

The government has asked the Queen to meet with some unsavoury people during the course of her reign as well as it is seen as good for the country.

Thus Andrew's dealings with a Gaddafi family member may very well be with regard to business dealings with Libya on behalf of the British government. It wouldn't be a State Visit as these meetings etc wouldn't be at that level. That level would require The Queen or Charles.
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  #37  
Old 02-28-2011, 02:00 AM
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It would put Andrew further away from the throne. Right now he's 4th.
His dealings with Quadaffi are repugnant to me.

Are they 'his' dealings or on behalf of the British government? He is an Ambassador for the government and may very well have to meet and deal with people he finds repugnant as well, like his mother has had to do over the years, but because of his role he does what is necessary for the benefit of British business.

I do think we need to remember that he is usually meeting a lot of these people on behalf of the government as opposed to just on his own behalf. He may subsequently become friends with some of them but I do think we have to be careful not to condemn him on the basis of being in the company of people without knowing why he is with them - is it because he simply wants to be there or because the government wants him to do the dirty work?
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  #38  
Old 02-28-2011, 10:47 AM
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Bertie, wouldn't it be known that he was on the clock? If the meeting had anything to do with his position it would've been announced. Especially after this latest scandal. Now there might still be an announcement to cover him but I doubt it considering Epstein's record you'd think the government might want to stay away from direct connection to the man. Maybe work through an intermediary.


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It would put Andrew further away from the throne. Right now he's 4th.
His dealings with Quadaffi are repugnant to me.
You say this like the first three are deathly ill or willing to abdicate. Yes, there is the chance of him coming to the thrown, especially if it skipped Charles but it's highly doubtful (Yes I know of the extreme examples in history but those are not the norm).

Even if the throne fell to him, would a man this unpopular be accepted? Can you imagine the outcry if Fergie continued to live on his dime then or if they got remarried? If the crown got to Andrew it wouldn't surprise me to hear people call for Anne or for the republican movement to receive a surge. The chances of Andrew being king are simply too slim to consider a threat.
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  #39  
Old 02-28-2011, 02:07 PM
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Even if the throne fell to him, would a man this unpopular be accepted? Can you imagine the outcry if Fergie continued to live on his dime then or if they got remarried? If the crown got to Andrew it wouldn't surprise me to hear people call for Anne or for the republican movement to receive a surge. The chances of Andrew being king are simply too slim to consider a threat.
Of course, the chances are slim. But William flies helicopters. And Harry does something in the military (sorry, not sure). I'm sure no one in the BRF or in the great British public would wish for a huge conflict if it came to succession.

The easiest way to avoid that is to bump Andrew further down the line of succession. Babies will come (royal and non royal alike), and how can that be a bad thing?
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  #40  
Old 02-28-2011, 02:41 PM
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It would put Andrew further away from the throne. Right now he's 4th.
His dealings with Quadaffi are repugnant to me.
Being further away from the throne means nothing, if something happens to the family, something happens.
His dealings? How do you know that Andrew is doing this of his own accord? He is working on behalf of the government, they say do something he does it. People make mistakes, people change.
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