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  #1641  
Old 07-07-2019, 05:22 PM
Heir Apparent
 
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Quote:
He's specifically named in the unsealed documents.
May I remind you, he is 'innocent until PROVEN guilty' [in a Court of Law]...
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  #1642  
Old 07-07-2019, 05:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Ista View Post
Epstein has a lot of money to throw at it, which he has done successfully in the past, so we'll see. I'm trying not to say anything that I can't back up, but let's just say that I would be happy to see justice done.
Me too. It's so sickening reading the case file, but as you say, these people are filthy rich, and will probably be throwing money at this. I'm still disgusted by the 2011 decision regarding this case.
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  #1643  
Old 07-07-2019, 07:01 PM
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Unfortunately, I’m not hopeful that any perp other than Epstein would be held accountable in this situation. I don’t know what I’m more disgusted about: the actions of the perps or the failure of the justice system just because the perps are rich and powerful with victims that are not “perfect”.

In regards to Andrew, I haven’t read the documents the court just ruled to unseal yet, but I’ve always found his actions that we do know about to be troubling. This is a man that he knew for about 10 years and we do know he was at some of the parties. We had a picture of Andrew with his arm around one of the victims. And THEN we know he continued to associate with Epstein after this came out. It is hard to buy Andrew didn’t know or found Epstein’s actions to be as deplorable as any person with basic care for right and wrong would.
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  #1644  
Old 07-07-2019, 08:19 PM
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This case is in a different jurisdiction. The Southern District of New York is known to have a high conviction rate. Epstein, if convicted, is looking at up to 45 years in prison. If the prosecution has solid evidence where no amount of money or influence will get him out of it Epstein may want to cut a deal. He'll name names and back it up to get a reduced sentence. (No Club Fed, a cushy minimum security facility. Personally I hope he gets Sing Sing). If Epstein gives up Andrew this will be the worst royal scandal in decades.


Epstein is bunking in the same facility as El Chapo. Yikes.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...age-girls.html
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  #1645  
Old 07-07-2019, 08:34 PM
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I'm glad that Epstein has been arrested and will come to trial in another jurisdiction. May justice prevail! And if more comes out about Andrew's participation his reputation is going to sink further than it has already over the years.
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  #1646  
Old 07-07-2019, 08:49 PM
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Folks, all of this is about to get very ugly.
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  #1647  
Old 07-07-2019, 09:44 PM
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The person who needs to worry is Donald Trump.
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  #1648  
Old 07-07-2019, 09:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Dman View Post
Folks, all of this is about to get very ugly.
It definitely is going to get very ugly. The Palace managed to do some serious damage control the last time, but they won't be able to now. Times have changed and the monarchy can't be seen as protecting Andrew if it goes as far as a criminal investigation. Just a suspicion that Andrew was involved in anything criminal would destroy his already bad reputation, tarnish the reputation of the monarchy and it would destroy his poor mother if any accusations turned out to be true.
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  #1649  
Old 07-07-2019, 11:11 PM
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Originally Posted by JR76 View Post
It definitely is going to get very ugly. The Palace managed to do some serious damage control the last time, but they won't be able to now. Times have changed and the monarchy can't be seen as protecting Andrew if it goes as far as a criminal investigation. Just a suspicion that Andrew was involved in anything criminal would destroy his already bad reputation, tarnish the reputation of the monarchy and it would destroy his poor mother if any accusations turned out to be true.
I cannot imagine that HRH Prince Andrew could be so stupid as to be implicated in sex with minors. Even his former wife knew to restrict herself to adults!
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  #1650  
Old 07-07-2019, 11:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JuliannaVictoria View Post
You're right. Andrew can claim diplomatic immunity (since charges are being brought by the federal government in the U.S.). His image though would still be forever tarnished even if he doesn't pay with jail time.
I’ve seen nothing indicating that Andrew is being prosecuted or will be subpoenaed to testify in this case, although one victim claims one of her three encounters with him occurred in New York. But if he were, then whether he would be entitled to immunity is not clear cut - if he was in New York on business for the UK government, and thus entitled to full immunity, then yes, but the U.S. could request that his immunity be waived by the U.K.. If he was on a personal trip, then there would be no immunity for him. I’m not sure whether the third scenario, where he’d be entitled to immunity while doing government business/on government property but not otherwise (eg while at Epstein’s mansion) would apply to a member of the Queen’s family or not.
This brings to mind the old saying, if you lay down with dogs don’t be surprised if you get up with fleas.
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  #1651  
Old 07-08-2019, 12:25 AM
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What we have as facts right now is that Epstein has been arrested, jailed and will go to court. Anything involving Andrew at this time are pure allegations so I'm not going to point any fingers at Andrew at this time. It may come out in the court case as fact and if so, Andrew will be taking a serious hit to his reputation and character as a human being.
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  #1652  
Old 07-08-2019, 01:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JuliannaVictoria View Post
Depends on how this goes, I don't think even The Queen will be able to save him from the fall-out this time. He's specifically named in the unsealed documents.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wyevale View Post
May I remind you, he is 'innocent until PROVEN guilty' [in a Court of Law]..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dman View Post
Folks, all of this is about to get very ugly.
.
Call me stupid but I'm with Weyvale about this. It goes without saying in any civilized country they have their day in court before they hang him. Sorry, I am a bit cynical about those who have rushed into the melee chanting their dire warnings and judgemental sentences.

But forgive me one moment if I ponder that in a unique case such as this where the standing of the guilty person was so rich and powerful that the case was pled down and resulting guilty verdict resulted in a mere 13 months jail but still "going to work" daily. That has got to be the most unimagined sweetheart deal, well beyond the dreams of some and the nightmare of others.

Having said that, those girls are now women and NY is more than happy to indite on those counts that can be proven to have occurred within its jurisdiction. That being the case, they will have had all their ducks in a row before Mr Epstien was arrested if for no other reason than the flight risk.

One would think that if Andrew was determined to be another target of the case, NY would have consulted with the UK Foreign Office and decisions would have been made and legal action taken prior to the arrest of Epstein.

Either way, I still believe in innocent until proven guilty.
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  #1653  
Old 07-08-2019, 02:20 AM
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If you listen to all the respected legal minds about this case, a lot of stuff is about to go down. So what we’re seeing with the Epstein case is only the beginning of the storm. There’s a lot of people involved in this nasty case, even elected officials.
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  #1654  
Old 07-08-2019, 02:47 AM
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The only one I'm aware of being prosecuted is Epstein. No one else has been indicted for any crimes other than Epstein. With as much money and influence that Mr. Epstein has, I'm sure he has a very wide circle of friends and acquaintances and associates. The only thing the any of them right now have on them is being linked to Epstein. Guilty by association is not a crime nor should it be a judgment.

It should prove to be an interesting case though.
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  #1655  
Old 07-08-2019, 07:21 AM
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Virtually nobody knows this Epstein (at least I´ve never heard of him before), but the Prince is known worldwide over. So I think his name was included in this story because it sells and without it hardly anybody would care!
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  #1656  
Old 07-08-2019, 07:45 AM
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It would be interesting to see the RF's response this time if Andrew is implicated in anyway. In a post metoo world etc it won't be swept under the rug as easily, and it seems Charles is more in control of the RF than he was before.
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  #1657  
Old 07-08-2019, 08:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wartenberg7 View Post
Virtually nobody knows this Epstein (at least I´ve never heard of him before), but the Prince is known worldwide over. So I think his name was included in this story because it sells and without it hardly anybody would care!
This case covers the same child sex trafficking crimes from the same case in Florida. It's just that those girls are women now. Prince Andrew knew him and holidayed with him just like so many other rich, powerful and famous men, even Donald Trump.

That is a matter of record. But knowing someone does not automatically mean you know they groom 12 - 14 year old girls for sex. Donald Trump obviously did as he mentioned that Jeffery liked his girls young.
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  #1658  
Old 07-08-2019, 08:14 AM
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Andrew may not have participated in anything illegal, but it makes me wonder how much he knew. And if he did know but didn’t care... I wouldn’t want to be his daughter at that point.
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  #1659  
Old 07-08-2019, 09:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dman View Post
If you listen to all the respected legal minds about this case, a lot of stuff is about to go down. So what we’re seeing with the Epstein case is only the beginning of the storm. There’s a lot of people involved in this nasty case, even elected officials.
And previously elected officials, from both sides of the aisle. Yes, very ugly, and Andrew is just one of many who will be touched by these allegations, and the light they shed on the extremely privileged lives of the very wealthy, who in some cases think that they are above the law.
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  #1660  
Old 07-08-2019, 09:23 AM
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Quote:
But knowing someone does not automatically mean you know they groom 12 - 14 year old girls for sex.
One 'may smile and smile, and still be a villain' [Hamlet Act 1, scene 5].'

I'm sure we all know people we consider 'close', without having the least idea as to their sexual proclivities ?
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