The Prince Andrew and Jeffrey Epstein Controversy 1: 2010-2022

[Osipi]

I dont quite see what priest and sexual abuse have to do with Andrew's situation

It really doesn't. But... I'll throw in a little trivia fact here as long as Catholic priests are being mentioned. Check off your learn something new everyday box here.

The universal requirement to celibacy was imposed upon the clergy with force in 1123 and again in 1139.

Thanks to watching The Last Kingdom, it steered me to discovering this fact relating to Catholic priests.

 

[Denville]

yes I know about clerical celibacy.. but Andrews issue is not the youth of his girls, but the possibility that they were trafficked and if he knew about it... so far, no under age girl has mentioned him.. as far as I know....
I dont think that it would look good if his lawyers start questioning VG about her sex life... obviously she has had a lot of men using her services, that was her job. It does not look good for a rich man who has been involved with her, however briefly, and who has had a busy enough sex life, to be seen as attacking her in that paritcular way.

 

[ladongas]

My point is that — Although Andrew is certainly not innocent —- everyone of these men knew that she was underage and should also be prosecuted. By not attempting to contact them and being them to justice — just makes it look like she’s just in it for the $$$.

Oh, so this is a case where the victim has to track down all the other guys who abused and misused her? Otherwise, the one she has remembered and identified gets a ‘get out of trouble’ card and walks away?

 

[Osipi]

Oh, so this is a case where the victim has to track down all the other guys who abused and misused her? Otherwise, the one she has remembered and identified gets a ‘get out of trouble’ card and walks away?

I agree here that the many men she slept with as her "job" do not play into this. The point that i really was trying to make here is the possibility that VG could not remember every encounter that she's had vividly and that alludes to the possibility of *Andrew* putting meeting her (or anything that followed) out of his mind completely once the event ended.

It isn't about her sex life with other men. It'd be about how she remembers or forgets each and every encounter she's ever had. For years I was involved in a self help group that had a bazillion people in it that I've met and talked to. 30 years down the road, I remember very few of them and couldn't tell you who they are today even if they remembered me vividly. ?

 

[Denville]

I agree here that the many men she slept with as her "job" do not play into this. The point that i really was trying to make here is the possibility that VG could not remember every encounter that she's had vividly and that alludes to the possibility of *Andrew* putting meeting her (or anything that followed) out of his mind completely once the event ended.

It isn't about her sex life with other men. It'd be about how she remembers or forgets each and every encounter she's ever had. For years I was involved in a self help group that had a bazillion people in it that I've met and talked to. 30 years down the road, I remember very few of them and couldn't tell you who they are today even if they remembered me vividly. ?

but that's the case wiht everyone whose job or lifetsyle involves meeting a lot of people, surely? Royals spend a lot of time saying Hello to people they have never met before and will never see again. So do ladies like Virigina whether their job is mainly looking pretty and seductive at parties or actually going to bed with a lot of men. Same with PR people, socialites, Travel reps. Most of us, even an old reclluse like myself, meet a lot of people or speak to a lot of people during our work, and we dont remember them 10 mins after the phone call. I dont think that anyone would expect Andrew to remember every girl he met, or every girl he slept with, but that's not that unusual. He would have been better to say that he had no recollection of meeting her but that if there was a photo taken, he assumes that he did meet her.. and give an evasive answer on the issue of whether he slept with her.. Such as "Im afraid I dont remember the lady at all"

 

[Leopoldine]

yes I know about clerical celibacy.. but Andrews issue is not the youth of his girls, but the possibility that they were trafficked and if he knew about it... so far, no under age girl has mentioned him.. as far as I know....
I dont think that it would look good if his lawyers start questioning VG about her sex life... obviously she has had a lot of men using her services, that was her job. It does not look good for a rich man who has been involved with her, however briefly, and who has had a busy enough sex life, to be seen as attacking her in that paritcular way.

A good point. This might also open the door as far as naming other men during the court proceedings. Ghislaine Maxwell's attorneys have indicated that they will not stand in the way of any mention of men's names who have previously been referred to as John Does.

 

[ladongas]

If I had to predict, I’d predict that Andrew will settle, and make a humble non-apology apology for having been adjacent to a milieu in which immoral and graceless behavior occurred. VG’s attorneys are not fools. Neither side would benefit from a discussion of who/where/when. Pay up, suck it up, and find a noble but low profile cause to devote yourself to.

 

[Osipi]

If I had to predict, I’d predict that Andrew will settle, and make a humble non-apology apology for having been adjacent to a milieu in which immoral and graceless behavior occurred. VG’s attorneys are not fools. Neither side would benefit from a discussion of who/where/when. Pay up, suck it up, and find a noble but low profile cause to devote yourself to.

I think if Andrew was going to settle, he'd have gone that route by now. His ego is telling him he needs to go the full ball of wax and get his name exonerated and cleared and win this lawsuit in a jury trial. What you suggest that he do, although the best option to me too, requires a bit of humility and that's a character trait we rarely have seen in Andrew.

I don't see Andrew being involved with any causes or organizations that involved people ever again. Maybe land management, horse exercising, golfing and the activities that a royal prince do would suit him best.

 

[Denville]

I dont think that Andrew can make up for things by charity work, today's worldview seems to be that noone can atone for any kind of sexual misdeeds. And I think that to settle now, might look bad. I dont know. He could make some kind of vague apology and a settlement and hope that it will all go away but I think that no charity will work with him now...

 

[ladongas]

Look to the Profumo scandal

…but I think that no charity will work with him now...

Not necessarily. John Profumo’s sexual (and other) scandals toppled a government in the early 1960’s; he volunteered as a fundraiser at Toynbee Hall in the east end of London for many years. He was eventually awarded a CBE for his work there ; and was seated next to HM at Margaret Thatcher’s 70th birthday party. So there is life after ugly scandal if you can be humble.

 

[padams2359]

First he needs to stop putting both feet in his mouth, up to his knees.

 

[Denville]

Not necessarily. John Profumo’s sexual (and other) scandals toppled a government in the early 1960’s; he volunteered as a fundraiser at Toynbee Hall in the east end of London for many years. He was eventually awarded a CBE for his work there ; and was seated next to HM at Margaret Thatcher’s 70th birthday party. So there is life after ugly scandal if you can be humble.

but that is exaclty my point. As I said, in TODAYs world, its not possible to do someting like that. Andrew tried to do a bit of work last year, packing food or something for a charity and he and Fergie were told to stop, bascially now if you are guilty or thought ot be guilty of some kind of sexual misdeeds, there is no way back . You are going to be treated as a pariah for life, most probalby.

 

[padams2359]

Had he simply been friends with Epstein prior to Epstein’s conviction and then stopped when he was convicted things maybe different. Andrew knew better and kept going back. His lack of regret to the friendship and sympathy for the victims did him in, and made him look more suspicious.

 

[Prinsara]

but that is exaclty my point. As I said, in TODAYs world, its not possible to do someting like that. Andrew tried to do a bit of work last year, packing food or something for a charity and he and Fergie were told to stop, bascially now if you are guilty or thought ot be guilty of some kind of sexual misdeeds, there is no way back . You are going to be treated as a pariah for life, most probalby.

It is probably still possible if the charity has a solid enough reputation that they don’t care about the bad rep and press Andrew brings.

But Andrew would also have to be willing to be as humble and contrite as Profumo. And that is probably even less possible, whatever year this is. (And to be honest, what could Andrew do, or be willing to lower himself to do? Profumo at least was a reasonably bright guy. With a sense of shame.)

 

[Denville]

No, I dont think its possible. Andrew DID offer with Fergie to do some low key job of packing food for people during Covid, and both of them had to stop. I dont believe any charity will take him on now to do anything, whether packing food or sticking envelopes. Its the mindset of the world today. And Profumo started out washing dishes in a hostel or soemthing..so that was hardly needing any brains. Andrews not going to be tolerated by any charity - perhaps in 10 years but I think not even then.

 

[Tatiana Maria]

No, I dont think its possible. Andrew DID offer with Fergie to do some low key job of packing food for people during Covid, and both of them had to stop.

What do you mean by "both of them had to stop"? Were they fired by the charity?

 

[Tatiana Maria]

In an interview with The Sun first published on February 10, former massage therapist Emma Gruenbaum gave an account of her experience treating the Duke of York in 2005. The Duke of York's spokesperson declined to comment.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/17615968/prince-andrew-x-rated-questions-physio/

Emma was a 34-year-old sports massage therapist at the Wentworth Club in Surrey when she started treating Andrew’s ex-wife Sarah Ferguson in early 2005.

[...]

Emma, a freelancer who was not knowingly vetted by Palace staff, visited Andrew six times that year.

She said: “I had a lot of high-profile clients and often visited their homes. But Andrew was very different. He was a constant sex pest right from the start.”

[...]

“I heard a voice, ‘Hey nice a****. Do you take it up the a***?’

“I stood up quickly and turned around. I was up against the massage table and he was up against me, eyeball to eyeball. Almost touching, he was really close.

“And I went, ‘None of your f***ing business.’ And he just looked at me in sort of a dead stare and said, ‘You can’t talk to me like that.’ I said, ‘Well you can’t speak to me like that.’

[...]

We started the massage. But all the way through he was talking about anal sex and making anal sex jokes. He asked when I had last had sex. It went on and on.

“I kept telling him to shut up but quickly realised he was OK with being talked at like he was a naughty schoolboy kind of thing.

[...]

He paid £80 for a 70-minute session and requested Emma’s services almost every Sunday for a while. She added: “Every time I saw him he would try to overstep the line. He’d try to hug me without fail. I would have to put my hand on his chest and push him off and say, ‘Look I don’t do hugs.’

[...]

But I didn’t see Sarah again after I started seeing the Duke which was odd. I didn’t complain to anyone at the time because I thought everyone would just know what he was like.

[...]

She added: “I just really want to add my voice and my experience to help, if it does help at all, to add context on what sort of character he is and how he treated me. And if that helps Virginia then fantastic.”

A spokesman for Andrew did not want to comment on Emma’s story.

 

[An Ard Ri]

Residents in several areas are now calling for places named for Prince Andrew to be renamed.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-ne...ces-bearing-prince-andrews-name-41348453.html

 

[Denville]

What do you mean by "both of them had to stop"? Were they fired by the charity?

I dont remember the details but as I recall, the charity asked them to stop . they were not "hired. I suppose they just offered to do it and someone accepted but the charity clearly felt that if that got out, it would llok bad. Edward and Sophie and Will and Kate were also packing food packages for old people, I suppose Sarah and Andrew got in that way. but the fact is that once he had done that stupid interview in 2019, all the charities that Andrew worked with dropped him... He had to officially stand down because noone would work iwht him

 

[wbenson]

Prince Andrew settles legal case with Virginia Roberts Giuffre

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/royal-f...-settles-legal-case-virginia-roberts-giuffre/

The Duke of York has reached an out of court financial settlement with his accuser Virginia Roberts Giuffre.

The deal brings an end to the legal process in the civil case and means he will not face a jury trial on sexual abuse claims.

 

[ACO]

With the Jubilee activities about to kick off next month.... I am not surprised by this news.

 

[Alisa]

We all knew this would happen.

 

[JoanHarry]

'Prince Andrew intends to make a substantial donation to Ms. Giuffre's charity in support of victims' rights.

'Prince Andrew has never intended to malign Ms Giuffre's character, and he accepts that she has suffered both as an established victim of abuse and as a result of unfair public attacks.

'It is known that Jeffrey Epstein trafficked countless young girls over many years. Prince Andrew regrets his association with Epstein, and commends the bravery of Ms Giuffre and other survivors in standing up for themselves and others.

'He pledges to demonstrate his regret for his association with Epstein by supporting the fight against the evils of sex trafficking, and by supporting its victims.'


I am surprised Guiffre did not ask for more from the statement.
Very surprised. My guess is that her attorney may have found that her failing to find the original photo would take a big chunk from the foundation of her case.

 

[Sionevar]

If only he'd issued this statement back in 2019, instead of giving that car-crash interview to the BBC. He might have been able to salvage his reputation, and avoid being exiled from royal life.

Will he be able to come back now, if he continues to show remorse and humility? Or is he done and out for good? And is the remorse real, or just a carefully crafted legal statement?

 

[ACO]

Andrew not exiled. I would bet he will be right by her side next month and on the balcony in June. Watch...

 

[Granada]

Exactly. No surprise here. There was no way the Family-Firm and their Advisors were going to let Andrew be Deposed and submit answers in writing to Interrogatories. No way.
I'm sure Virginia AND her lawyers got a very decent Settlement too. Besides the donation to a Charity in support of victims rights.
They are just keeping that part a BIG Secret.
And Charles and William will keep him sidelined too. He is to much of a polarizing distraction and arrogant fool to let loose. He will be there for events surrounding memorials to Prince Philip, but for Jubilee events ? Doubtful, kept in the background, if the Royal Family and their Advisors are smart.

 

[Sionevar]

This definitely seems like a good outcome for Andrew. Probably an extremely expensive one as well, but the whole problem is now done and over and legally sealed in a way that didn't drag out any more dirty laundry.

 

[MajorCats]

I don't understand. If he says he wasn't guilty why would he go for a settlement? To avoid going on trial?

 

[Durham]

Exactly.
And Charles and William will keep him sidelined too. He is to much of a polarizing distraction and arrogant fool to let loose. He will be there for events surrounding memorials to Prince Philip, but for Jubilee events ? Doubtful, kept in the background, if the Royal Family and their Advisors are smart.

There's no way he'll be let anywhere near jubilee events. He's out. For good. To imagine otherwise is to totally misunderstand public opinion in Britain.

 

[Sionevar]

I don't understand. If he says he wasn't guilty why would he go for a settlement? To avoid going on trial?

To make the problem go away, quietly and quickly and cleanly.

Lots of people settle court cases for this reason, whether they are guilty or not. A long legal fight can be very hard on a person, both financially and emotionally.

If I was being sued, and it would cost me 100k right now to settle, or 500k over 3 years to fight, I know what I would do. Especially if the settlement was confidential and did not require admission of guilt.