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  #981  
Old 01-22-2015, 03:55 PM
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Sorry I still think he was involved
Involved in what?
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  #982  
Old 01-22-2015, 03:57 PM
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Unfortunately for Prince Andrew, I don't think this story is going to go away any time soon. Gawker has some of the flight logs from Epstein's jet and it shows that both Clinton and Dershowitz flew on it at various times. I think Clinton's connection may give this story much more publicity. Especially with an election year coming up.

http://gawker.com/flight-logs-put-cl...lio-1681039971
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  #983  
Old 01-22-2015, 04:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by royal rob View Post
Some people have very strange morals they are still blaming the female. Poor Andrew ????


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The difference is that I see the Duke of York as innocent until proven. You seem to see the Duke as guilty unless he has proven he is not. That is the world upside down.

"You are my father!"

"I beg your pardon, how dare you? I am not!"

"Prove it! Prove that you are NOT my father!"


That is the same practice, people almost enforced against the wall and prove their innocence instead the other way.

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  #984  
Old 01-22-2015, 04:37 PM
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Originally Posted by soapstar View Post
Unfortunately for Prince Andrew, I don't think this story is going to go away any time soon. Gawker has some of the flight logs from Epstein's jet and it shows that both Clinton and Dershowitz flew on it at various times. I think Clinton's connection may give this story much more publicity. Especially with an election year coming up.

Flight Logs Put Clinton, Dershowitz onÂ*PedophileÂ*Billionaire’s Sex Jet
What does the fact that Mr Clinton and Mr Dershowitz shared a plane have to with the Duke of York and the accusation of alleged misconduct uttered towards him by a lady claimed to be "forced", three times even?
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  #985  
Old 01-22-2015, 04:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
The difference is that I see the Duke of York as innocent until proven. You seem to see the Duke as guilty unless he has proven he is not. That is the world upside down.

"You are my father!"

"I beg your pardon, how dare you? I am not!"

"Prove it! Prove that you are NOT my father!"


That is the same practice, people almost enforced against the wall and prove their innocence instead the other way.


What I'm saying is people still say " it's the girls fault " and yes I think he did have sex with her. I'm not going to go back over why as it's just repeating what I've said before.


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  #986  
Old 01-22-2015, 04:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
What does the fact that Mr Clinton and Mr Dershowitz shared a plane have to with the Duke of York and the accusation of alleged misconduct uttered towards him by a lady claimed to be "forced", three times even?
As my post pointed out, this story isn't going away any time soon. First is was Prince Andrew, now other high profile people are being brought into it. The more publicity it gets, the more damaging it is for Andrew.
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  #987  
Old 01-22-2015, 04:46 PM
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With Andrew its not strictly a matter of guilt or innocence. He needs to be concerned about spin and PR. He represents the Queen and British Government and the longer the story stays in the media and the more high profile figures get mentioned (like Clinton) the longer it hangs over Andrew and potentially could lead to him scaling back duties or even retiring from pubic life.

I personally think Andrew is in for a very rough year
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  #988  
Old 01-22-2015, 04:51 PM
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When the Duke of York and his legal team can demasqué the lady as a fraud and a swindler, then he can get out of all this with head up. Also the later King Edward VII had to face public scandals in Court (once to be heard in gambling case and once to be heard in an adultery case) but this did not prevent him to regain public approval.
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  #989  
Old 01-22-2015, 04:56 PM
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I wonder who is advising him. I think inviting the press in and mentioning it in his speech was not good PR. We now have pictures and video of him looking to me as a very worried and desperate man. Just digging the hole deeper



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  #990  
Old 01-22-2015, 05:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Duc_et_Pair View Post
When the Duke of York and his legal team can demasqué the lady as a fraud and a swindler, then he can get out of all this with head up. Also the later King Edward VII had to face public scandals in Court (once to be heard in gambling case and once to be heard in an adultery case) but this did not prevent him to regain public approval.

Very different times and no where as bad as sex with underage girl and helping a friend !! get a lighter sentence for having sex with children. Girls as young as 12 !!!!!!


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  #991  
Old 01-22-2015, 05:06 PM
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I'm just wondering how "forced" this 17 year old was. From what I've been seeing, she wasn't chained to a bed somewhere in a dark basement but rather enjoyed the high life Epstein was able to provide her with with the understanding that she would do "favors" for him. Perhaps saying "no" would be to be cast back into a normal 17 year old's lifestyle. Perhaps she is using the legal age of consent now as a loophole but at the time, she did actually consent to comply with Epstein's wishes.

Just my thoughts.
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  #992  
Old 01-22-2015, 05:07 PM
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Very different times and no where as bad as sex with underage girl and helping a friend !! get a lighter sentence for having sex with children. Girls as young as 12 !!!!!!


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The lady, posing on a picture with a smile from ear to ear, was not 12 but 17 years old at the time of the alleged enforced sexual affair, which accidentally happened three times at three different places, for so far leaving us how "enforced" and "three times" and "smiley smiley I am here with my Andy" should be interpreted now, in 2015.


All this in a country with the highest rate of teen pregnancies in the western world, for so far the moral part of the story.
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  #993  
Old 01-22-2015, 05:11 PM
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But the person Andrew was friends with and helped did do these things.. And thank god that most intelligent people in the world see this as wrong


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  #994  
Old 01-22-2015, 05:14 PM
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Well the word pathetic ran through my mind when I saw this. First off this was supposed to be "work" at a very professional business event which Andrew used for his own personal issues. Secondly his eyes were darting everywhere and it seemed he didn't even believe what he was saying and the whole I reaffirm what BP said was sorry just silly afterall he is the one that told them. He is in for a rough year and if they get confirmation he tried to get Epstein off lightly knowing what he did it's going to get way rougher. I don't think this helped him at all in fact I don't think this is going to go down very well at all with a lot of people. I don't feel sorry for him he was stupid enough to get involved with Epstein he enjoyed a lot of parties and luxury vacations and we know he helped Fergie pay off some debt. It seems people don't understand the power some people have over others there are statements that Epstein threatened the girls and their families, she believed he loved her it's called grooming young girls can be manipulated especially if they are from a broken home etc. Pimps do it all the time which is pretty much what Epstein was and there are 40 victims so she wasn't the only one he had to have done or said things that made these girls do what he wanted. Andrew benefitted by this and sorry but I honestly think he knew full well what was going on. I don't know if he slept with or if he didn't but it wouldn't surprise me if he did most men wouldn't pass up the opportunity and Andrew is no monk and has shown what bad judgement he has. If everyone else was doing it I can see him joining in. Five other girls refused to answer questions about Andrew and we havent heard from the other 3 plaintiffs so there is a chance this girl isn't the only one if more stories come out from the other girls then it's going to make Andrew look even worse.
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  #995  
Old 01-22-2015, 05:16 PM
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And thank god that most intelligent people in the world see this as wrong


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Intelligent people also believe in "innocent until proven guilty", but those people seems to have become a minority these days.

Oh, and intelligent people also don't pretend they know more than the American Judiciary and prefer to stick to the facts, unlike many people I've seen talking about the Duke of York this past days.
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  #996  
Old 01-22-2015, 05:18 PM
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Very well said Meadow sums up how I feel about it too.


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  #997  
Old 01-22-2015, 05:21 PM
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As long as there are rich men who work hard and party hard and have nice things..... there will always be pretty young things along for the ride. Its rather crude but there you go. ETA; That being said, why would Andrew know that the girl was being held against her will unless she specifically told him? There are enough young women in the world who would gladly party with an older man and go to luxurious places. Don't believe me....go to St. Barts, Aspen or any place in the world and most likely you will find an older man with pretty young girl on his arm.

Rape and sex trafficking are serious issues, and I don't think that anyone here is disputing that. Sex with children unacceptable in my book [I won't say what I think should happen to those who do it cause its not nice] and again, I don't think anyone here is saying that is okay.

Consensual sex with someone who is legally of age [as long as that person is not being transported over state lines for the purpose of prostitution] is also perfectly acceptable. You don't like the idea of a 40 year old having sex with a 17 year old...it might be gross to you ....but if no laws are broken...you might not like it...but again...its perfectly acceptable.

What I want to know and no one has addressed it is the following....how was she held as a sex slave? was she or her family threatened in any way? did she have free will and by that I mean, could she leave and go at any time? or did she have the ability to leave and go but had some type of Stockholm syndrome where her conscious made her come back?

I am not saying he is innocent or guilty...or that she is lying or not lying...I am just saying that some of it just doesn't make any sense.
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  #998  
Old 01-22-2015, 05:28 PM
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What I want to know and no one has addressed it is the following....how was she held as a sex slave? was she or her family threatened in any way? did she have free will and by that I mean, could she leave and go at any time? or did she have the ability to leave and go but had some type of Stockholm syndrome where her conscious made her come back? Some of it just doesn't make any sense.
I'm curious about this, too. The girls don't seem to have been chained up in cages, so what actually did happen? What hold did Epstein have over them?
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  #999  
Old 01-22-2015, 05:31 PM
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Some people have very strange morals they are still blaming the female. Poor Andrew ????


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I could not agree more.
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  #1000  
Old 01-22-2015, 05:37 PM
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You don't have to be physically forced to be the only reason to stay in a situation. People don't understand why women stay in abusive marriage and unless you have been in that situation you never will know, but of course it's easier to blame the woman ..Epstein was black mailing people don't forget


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