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  #581  
Old 01-06-2015, 08:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sthreats View Post
I said whatever contact he had with this girl - it was poor judgement


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I don't think Andrew is noted for good judgment.
But I do think if he keeps his head down and doesn't run his mouth, this will all go away as have the scandals in his past.

I was wondering if the RF has diplomatic immunity when in a foreign country?
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  #582  
Old 01-06-2015, 09:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirabel View Post
I don't think Andrew is noted for good judgment.
But I do think if he keeps his head down and doesn't run his mouth, this will all go away as have the scandals in his past.

I was wondering if the RF has diplomatic immunity when in a foreign country?

Andrew hasn't been charged with anything so immunity is irrelevant. The damage has been done simply by naming him in a civil matter and I don't think that will go away no matter how much he keeps his head down.

I agree with you that his judgment has always been bad but no past scandal compares with an allegation that that he had sex with a woman (over or underage) against her will.


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  #583  
Old 01-06-2015, 09:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GömdNatt View Post
my thoughts exactly. The few users here going against the girls are gross. Victim blaming is never appropriate, regardless of your intentions.

Parents cannot always be responsible for their children and attempting to lay such a huge blame on them (like a user or two here have seem to have tried to do) is gross. The people who are responsible are the men/women who raped/assaulted these girls.
It's unfortunate that sometimes legitimate victims are not believed but we know that there are many times in which women make false allegations. Ask any Duke Lacrosse player. Being falsely accused of a crime like this can be devastating for the men and their families. It's a balancing act but I would not blindly believe the girl in this case anymore than I would blindly believe any of the men she accuses. I need to know more facts and then will decide whose story is more credible.

In this case, this girl did suffer sexual abuse by Epstein. I also think his sentence was too light. He should still be rotting in jail.

That doesn't mean that every word that comes out of the victim's mouth is true. If Andrew had consensual sex with her, he's a scumbag. But the issue is whether there is reason to believe that Andrew knew she was only 17 and/or that she was coerced into sexual slavery. I've seen no proof one way or another but I am waiting for more information.

I find it "gross" that some posters are trying to excuse the parents in this case. Sadly, there are incorrigible children whose parents can't help them no matter how much they try. It must be terrible to helplessly watch while your child makes such destructive choices.

That doesn't seem to be the case with this father. He says he didn't even ask any questions when his daughter was flying all over the world giving massages to rich men--and there is certainly no indication that he called the authorities.
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  #584  
Old 01-06-2015, 10:38 AM
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Prince Andrew's sex abuser friend Jeffrey Epstein kept a list nicknamed 'The Holy Grail' | Daily Mail Online
Quote:
Jeffrey Epstein, the billionaire child abuser friend of Prince Andrew , cultivated an extraordinary range of contacts - from President Bill Clinton to Mick Jagger - it is revealed today.

Court documents obtained by MailOnline disclose how Epstein kept multiple phone numbers, email and home addresses for the great and the good on both sides of the Atlantic.

The document was presented as an exhibit as lawyers sought a court's permission to take evidence from Bill Clinton and his staff, for whom Epstein had 21 numbers, all under the name of his former advisor Doug Band.

Epstein also had multiple contact details for a string of celebrities, including the Rolling Stones frontman Sir Mick Jagger; Donald Trump's ex-wife Ivana and their daughter Ivanka; and a series of women recorded under 'massage' in the document, nicknamed 'The Holy Grail' by a former employee.

The contents of the document are disclosed by MailOnline as Prince Andrew, the Queen's second son, fights back against allegations that he had sex with Virginia Roberts - who claims she was kept by Epstein as a 'sex slave' - when she was a 17-year-old minor.
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  #585  
Old 01-06-2015, 10:58 AM
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The thought of Virginia meeting the Queen could be made up. Then again, once in a while, he's seen with different young ladies at Royal Ascot, etc. I really don't know much about his activities between 99 and 02.
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  #586  
Old 01-06-2015, 10:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by US Royal Watcher View Post
That doesn't mean that every word that comes out of the victim's mouth is true. If Andrew had consensual sex with her, he's a scumbag. But the issue is whether there is reason to believe that Andrew knew she was only 17 and/or that she was coerced into sexual slavery. I've seen no proof one way or another but I am waiting for more information.
Prince Andrew denies having had any kind of sex with Ms Roberts, either consensual or otherwise.
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  #587  
Old 01-06-2015, 11:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Mbruno View Post
Prince Andrew denies having had any kind of sex with Ms Roberts, either consensual or otherwise.
Of course you are right. What I meant to say is that IF Andrew had sex with her, there is no evidence that he knew she had been coerced into having sex.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dman View Post
The thought of Virginia meeting the Queen could be made up. Then again, once in a while, he's seen with different young ladies at Royal Ascot, etc. I really don't know much about his activities between 99 and 02.
The father has withdrawn his claim that Virginia met met the Queen. Virginia Roberts's father apologises after wrongly boasting his daughter met the Queen | Daily Mail Online
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  #588  
Old 01-06-2015, 11:24 AM
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Good, because I just felt that was made up.
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  #589  
Old 01-06-2015, 11:27 AM
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Alan Dershowitz has filed defamation suits

Alan Dershowitz files defamation lawsuits over Prince Andrew 'sex slave' claims | Daily Mail Online
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  #590  
Old 01-06-2015, 11:45 AM
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I also get massages and like to swim naked in my pool or while sailing (not in front of a gardener or servants, but also when some friends are around - all that is not illigal or any proof of having sex with any of the persons around.

The facts so far are:
She claims to have been a well paid underage prostitued in the service of Epstein,
She is writing a book and is looking for money to make
PA was friends with Epstein
PA denies having had Sex with her

All the bull**** about 'sex slave' is only scandalmongering.

For me there are a lot of things not adding up in her story - only if one takes money in the equation then it starts making sense.
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  #591  
Old 01-06-2015, 12:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Meadow View Post
The age thing is confusing it wasn't illegal in the places she was but it is in Florida I'm confused about how Florida can act against something that happened in another country.
...
I don't know how it is Australia or Britain, but in the United States each of the 50 states has criminal statutes and you can be prosecuted for breaking the law for crimes committed in a state by the state prosecutors for that state. In the Epstein scenario he was prosecuted by the state Attorneys in Florida. There are also Federal crimes which apply to certain situations and there are separate Federal prosecutors who prosecute them. There are several Federal prosecutors offices (think of them as branches) throughout the country. Some crimes can only be prosecuted by the Feds (not filing your Federal income taxes, for example.) Some crimes can only be prosecuted by the state in which they occurr (having sex with an underage minor in that state and no where else, for example.) In the Epstein case w/ his focus on 12-16 year old girls it seems any number of states could have prosecuted him as he allegedly had relations w/ minors in Nevada, California, Florida and New York. But the Feds had jurisdiction as well because Epstein also flew these girls from one state to another or into/out of the United States which is a Federal crime.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GracieGiraffe View Post
Re: the statement that Virginia Roberts met the Queen. We don't know if that actually came from her or was fabricated by her father. But I'll bet those lawyers are going to shut Daddy up pretty quickly, whatever the case.
And you would have won your bet!

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  #592  
Old 01-06-2015, 02:57 PM
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Duke of York's 'sex abuse' accuser Virginia Roberts 'a serial liar', court papers allege - Telegraph
Quote:
The woman who claims she was paid to have sex with the Duke of York is a “serial liar” who has set out on a “deliberate” smear campaign, according to a retired Harvard law professor who is suing her for defamation.

Alan Dershowitz, who has vehemently denied Virginia Roberts’s claims that she was forced to have sex with him, says he can demonstrate her claims are untrue.

In court papers filed in Florida on Monday night, Prof Dershowitz says one of her claims – that she had sex with him on Epstein’s private island – was easy to disprove as he had only ever spent one night on the island, when he stayed there with his wife and daughter.

Meanwhile sources close to the Duke have indicated that he does not plan to follow Prof Dershowitz’s example of suing Miss Roberts.
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  #593  
Old 01-06-2015, 04:33 PM
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Originally Posted by US Royal Watcher View Post

My first reaction when it was alleged she met HM was - oooohhhh, now you've gone to far - I didn't believe it. I was skeptical before, but though everything claimed is plausible. Once I heard that she didn't meet HM, I though, well, it's hard to believe much now.

If Prince Andrew did sleep with her as she alleges, he is guilt of nothing but poor judgement and gross behaviour. There is nothing indicating that he knew the situation was as claimed. Irregardless, he should have known better than to (allegedly) sleep with someone so young.
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  #594  
Old 01-06-2015, 05:03 PM
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Prince Andrew plans no legal action against woman claiming sex abuse-
Prince Andrew plans no legal action against woman claiming sex abuse - CNN.com
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  #595  
Old 01-06-2015, 06:32 PM
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Dershowitz has filed suit for defamation? Excellent!

Bring. It. On.
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  #596  
Old 01-06-2015, 06:41 PM
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Yes!!!!!!! Epstein and his ilk are despicable, but that doesn't give his victims the right to make all kinds of allegations. After what those girls went through, and what it must have done to their young, vulnerable minds and bodies...shudder...I don't think that their psyches couldn't have come out damaged in some way. They have suffered trauma, and they shouldn't have to suffer more. However, if they're implicating people who weren't involved with them, they need to be held accountable for that.
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  #597  
Old 01-06-2015, 07:14 PM
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Agreed. I just hope Dershowitz isn't doing this in an attempt to make the Jane Does back off.
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  #598  
Old 01-06-2015, 07:22 PM
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I don't like Dershowitz but he has a brilliant legal mind and he isn't one to be crossed and this only helps Prince Andrew.
Virginia Roberts best have her story straight
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  #599  
Old 01-06-2015, 07:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Roslyn View Post
Agreed. I just hope Dershowitz isn't doing this in an attempt to make the Jane Does back off.
Dershowitz is absolutely trying to get the Jane Does to back off, which is perfectly acceptable if the Jane Does are lying. He doesn't really have any choice. If they are telling the truth, then it's another reprehensible act.
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  #600  
Old 01-06-2015, 07:35 PM
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All I can say is I really hope it is not true ....
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