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  #521  
Old 07-30-2011, 03:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Aliza View Post
On the other hand, Kate Cambridge is now being whispered about for being "too thin". There is no winning at this game
I sense that this is unpopular here, but the problem in this case is that - from some who have met her and from what I've seen in pictures - she is. There's some strain there - I have my own thoughts having watched this so many times with young women. Not a good sign. What's good about current sensibilities, however, is that there's been a shift to being 'boff' - slender but with good muscle tone, being in shape.

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Dr. Phil had it right; Sarah is not cut out for public life.
Dr Phil didn't do that - quite - or not in the show 'Finding Sarah'. He presented two scenarios - saying firstly: you may not be cut out to being a celebrity (or something along those lines) - and there was a significant pause - it felt like he was doing something a-typical for him - actually trying to suggest a course of action. It was an interesting moment. She then reacted at once with a 'no, no, I want it' or some such. Then he continued with the next scenario, he said: Or, you do go for a public life - and I think he said something positive/encouraging, like - you can do it if you really want to - but you have to take the rough with the smooth. He said more very sensible stuff - like a person has to be tough - while she teared up, then recovered and said, yes, of course. But enough of that - just wanted to clarify that.
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  #522  
Old 07-30-2011, 03:15 AM
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Don't know how reliable this is...but the London Daily Star is reporting that Sarah has signed to be on Celebrity Big Brother. Does anyone know anything about the program?
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  #523  
Old 07-30-2011, 03:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Tyger View Post
I sense that this is unpopular here, but the problem in this case is that - from some who have met her and from what I've seen in pictures - she is. There's some strain there - I have my own thoughts having watched this so many times with young women. Not a good sign. What's good about current sensibilities, however, is that there's been a shift to being 'boff' - slender but with good muscle tone, being in shape.



Dr Phil didn't do that - quite - or not in the show 'Finding Sarah'. He presented two scenarios - saying firstly: you may not be cut out to being a celebrity (or something along those lines) - and there was a significant pause - it felt like he was doing something a-typical for him - actually trying to suggest a course of action. It was an interesting moment. She then reacted at once with a 'no, no, I want it' or some such. Then he continued with the next scenario, he said: Or, you do go for a public life - and I think he said something positive/encouraging, like - you can do it if you really want to - but you have to take the rough with the smooth. He said more very sensible stuff - like a person has to be tough - while she teared up, then recovered and said, yes, of course. But enough of that - just wanted to clarify that.
Actually, I agree with you about Kate. I just think it's way too early for anyone to be speculating about anorexia and bulimia. She is too thin. I'm curious how she'll look after relaxing at Balmoral away from the public eye for a while; she's had quite a schedule since the wedding!

Yes, you're correct. I did watch the program, too - IMHO, Dr. Phil wanted her to understand that he thinks she is not cut out for the celebrity world. I think there were parameters set around how far any of the therapists could go and I'm sure there was some pressure to end her "sessions" with Dr. Phil on a positive note to wrap the series up. He certainly was not his usual blunt self with Sarah; neither was anyone else on the series, including Oprah. The closest we all came to seeing the "real" Sarah, was the Time interview. Thanks for clarifying, I should've made it more clear that I was posting my opinion about Dr. Phil instead of making it sound as though I were directly quoting him.
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  #524  
Old 07-30-2011, 04:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Aliza View Post
IMHO, Dr. Phil wanted her to understand that he thinks she is not cut out for the celebrity world.
That's what I got from it, too. He was saying it so meaningfully - and the pause - it was unmistakeable what he was suggesting.

Then when he talks about toughness - she's tearing up - its so clear - what an image. Dear me. No insight - 'thick as a plank' keeps coming to mind as a phrase to explain her blind spot. Or is it willful? In fairness most famous people had that as part of their ambition in life - being on stage gives a buzz - so she wants that - no harm - except that she does seem to be harming herself and possibly others - maybe - I'm not quite convinced of that.

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I think there were parameters set around how far any of the therapists could go and I'm sure there was some pressure to end her "sessions" with Dr. Phil on a positive note to wrap the series up. He certainly was not his usual blunt self with Sarah; neither was anyone else on the series, including Oprah.
What happened to Suze Ormond? She happened wayyyyy at the beginning - one visit - Sarah gives no answers on screen - I think she bugged out. We saw no therapy taking place around money. We saw no honest discussion regarding money issues.

Dr Phil did have one really serious conversation - remember? It was again wayyyyy at the beginning - maybe in the 2nd episode - when he says to her that she's not being honest. He's starting to shake her up - she's being as slippery as an eel - and he finally says that if she's not going to engage she can walk out, the doors open - he was doing that thing he does to get honesty - except in this case it was a whole series and the person facing him had signed a contract and there was no freedom to walk out. But from that point, I never saw him go into his 'therapeutic' mode.

I really wonder what the behind the scenes story was with that series. One can speculate - it seemed like a good idea, had some very good people - but it spun out - and it started to spin out very fast. Had Ormond and Dr Phil really been able to do their thing - it would have been very unique. It was 6 episodes and the last two don't count (the snow trek and the odd 'wrap-up' and the odder last 30 minutes in England ).

I agree with you - it was almost as though at some point they were just trying to get this series over with. OWN advertised the first 2-3 episodes a lot - but the advertising dropped off the edge with the last two episodes, did you notice? Its speculation but I think something happened during the filming - Sarah didn't deliver or got cold feet when she realized that she'd actually have to be honest or something. Its a very odd series when you consider it after the fact.

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The closest we all came to seeing the "real" Sarah, was the Time interview.
Was that the 'real' Sarah? She definitely showed strength there - albeit not to her advantage. If she could take that moxie - that uppity quality - and transform it into a consistent mental toughness (with some insight and wisdom) - she has potential, she does. The problem with the UK is that everyone sees her through the gauze of the BRF. I see her as a chip that can play in the game - or not. I think Sarah has too much of an American sensibility now in her to ever fit back into her old royal life. Like the saying goes: You can never go home again. In Sarah's case she is 'larger' than what once was. I really do hope she figures it out. On consideration, what she showed in the Times interview tells me that she just may make it. It ain't over 'til its over, until the fat lady sings, as the saying goes. Either Sarah will stumble and fall endlessly or she will prove us all wrong. I hope she does the latter!
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  #525  
Old 07-30-2011, 05:07 AM
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You know I REALLY like Sarah. Shockingly I learned a bit about problems I have internally within myself from her program. I'm actually currently reading her book. I DO hope Sarah finds herself. Now was it the Piers Morgan interview can't member I saw it in Vegas was too drunk anyways she was asked if there would be a second season and she sorta started answering it and then cut off and switched topics so me thinks Oprah may not have been too thrilled with the show. Member the rumours of how she felt it wasn't exciting enough? Anyways reading her book now the May 2010 deal makes a bit more sense but I'm afraid I'll have to watch the tape back for the first time in a while before I can make complete sense of it. In none of her interviews has she ever thoroughly explained it and I kinda wish she did. It just all seemed so muddled up. In the book it makes more sense maybe not 100% sense but close enough. I still don't get her whole editing thing we saw what we saw how in the heck could they have edited? We would have been able to tell. Anyways going on I dunno what follow up therapy and such she's had if any with Dr. Phill or Suze but I hope in the long run it helps her. I heard she's now debt free which is good. Don't have the uk Hello mag but would love to read her interview maybe in next week's Canadian issue. Anyways blabbing on the last episode just aired here and I dvred it so I"ll give my final thoughts in he morning but so far I have to say I genuinely like Sarah and I genuinely feel she's a good person. Ya maybe at times she over does it with the "I still love Andrew" and the "woe is me" Though at the same time I do feel bad for her and I do believe they still love each other. Who knows what the future holds but I hope it only goes up from here for her.
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  #526  
Old 07-30-2011, 06:14 AM
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I just by chance saw the last episode again and have to correct something regarding Dr Phil's comment about Sarah not having a public life: its not quite how I was recalling it - no meaningful pause, he is very conversational talking about the choice of being out of the public eye, going home and living a life that is irrelevant - so you can see its a bit more nuanced. She does not want an irrelevant life - who would? But he says very clearly to her that that would solve all her problems - and he is looking at her. He then does give the other scenario.

On second viewing, one sees different things - sometimes impressions shift. Interesting.

The last 30 minutes remains ill-conceived IMO. The scenes with Eugenie in the house and then in the garden - are plain odd - one never sees Eugenie's face and its a very odd posture. Looks like a set scene. Beatrice seems to be reciting from a script. The chapel scene is more of the same 'look at all the bad stuff happening to me'. The series has not made us care about Sarah - and is perhaps assuming an interest from the get-go that may not be there in the viewer. The result being that Sarah as the 'lead' doesn't 'sell'. There were moments I wanted to think well of it all - but then it all fell apart. The endless repetition of her woes does not wear well. Most significant, everyone is telling us how much Sarah has changed - rather than we see that she has changed. The series of shows just doesn't work. It was a bad idea.
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  #527  
Old 07-30-2011, 10:11 AM
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I think the fact no one really sees her change or even admit to her wrongdoings is the reason why it comes across so badly. Of course people are going to say she has changed they have been told too. To me it is like Sarah constantly saying how good hearted she is and what a great mother she is yet we see actions very much to the contrary. So far she is still doing exactly what she did before Oprah and according to Sarah, Andrew paid off her debts she didn't do it so how is that being responsible for her own actions? No word on if she is to repay Andrew or his friends which to me is odd. Nobody does anything for free and to cover that much debt it was over 2 million pounds some sort of deal had to have been made. Which makes me wonder how long Sarah is going to stay out of debt that money from Oprah won't last her very long and the book has done badly so she can't rely on book royalties. I give her too Christmas to start whining about money again if not before!
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  #528  
Old 07-30-2011, 12:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyger View Post
The chapel scene is more of the same 'look at all the bad stuff happening to me'.
Thank you for all the recaps for those of us who couldn't watch the whole show! Could you elaborate on the "chapel scene"? That scene isn't online.
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  #529  
Old 07-30-2011, 01:05 PM
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Is there any way we can drop this discussion about Sarah's weight? Kate's weight?
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  #530  
Old 07-30-2011, 03:05 PM
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Thank you for all the recaps for those of us who couldn't watch the whole show! Could you elaborate on the "chapel scene"? That scene isn't online.
Keep in mind its just one person when I say what I saw.....others should pop in to correct or elaborate....

She goes to the chapel where they held the memorial service for her mother. The premise here has to be that we are 'traveling along with Sarah' - that the viewer has 'bought into' the premise that she is being wrongly seen - in the bizarre sequence where she is walking around London (with her 2-3 videographers trailing along - I'm sure she made a sight) she claims she is being started at and comments: the people in this country believe the press. Its very sad to watch these 30 minutes in England because the whole premise seems to be that she is 'yet again' being pilloried - and she is having her daughters there to show how adversely this stuff is impacting them it seems. Everything that just happened in Los Angeles does not seem to have made a difference - yet she winds up sitting there at one point telling us that how she responded was so much different now than before the show. Exposition in this case just doesn't work.

Oh yeah - chapel.... She is shown kneeling and praying. As the camera shows her deep in prayer, in the voice over she talks about how her mother would advise her to hold the family unit together, to be there for Andrew, and her 'girls', about how hard it is to withstand 'yet another' negative headline. She assumes the viewer is 'with her'. She basically re-states all her grievances yet again - unwise because we have heard the litany of her woes many, many times in this series. If one was on the fence about Sarah thus far in the series, I think this would push them over the edge. IMO.

In all of this Sarah's affect is very odd, I think. She seems to be going through the motions of trying to present a point of view. I don't think she believes herself - though she's certainly trying to convince the viewer - assumes the viewer is convinced, in fact. She is using the camera like a confidant.

This whole scandal - what she seems to not realize that she needs to 'own' it - like someone mentioned Hugh Grant did with his own troubles. That's it. It doesn't matter what she says was this or that - she has to step up to the plate and say: 'Friends, I regret what took place and I apologize to the BRF, to my ex-husband, to my children, to the British public and the American public who have been so kind to me in recent years - for behaving in such a way and making decisons and speaking in such a way that brought dishonor and shame upon myself and my family and others: I am aware that the perception of impropriety is the same as committing the impropriety. I should have known better. There is no excuse for my lapse of judgment in this instance, especially given my history of poor judgment; I deeply regret the upset I have caused to my family; I am going into counseling to unravel my personal knots regarding money and judgement. My hope is that when I have come to understand myself better, I will be able to be the support my family needs and the woman those who have supported me want to see. Thank you.' Music fades away...

Am I hired?
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  #531  
Old 07-31-2011, 01:59 AM
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Sarah Backtracks Again

Sarah seemingly can't make up her mind whether her parents were wonderful or terrible.

Sarah Ferguson: 'My mother didn't beat me - it was just a joke' | Mail Online
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  #532  
Old 07-31-2011, 02:52 AM
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Oh, brother. She's getting to be more and more like octomom. Enough Sara reality for awhile, methinks.
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  #533  
Old 07-31-2011, 04:49 AM
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Is Sarah possibly Borderline? I don't want ot get banned, but Diana was disgnosed with that by a couple authors and Sarah is certainly showing a lot of the behavioral patterns. Second, by 'joking' like that, she did a lot of damage. She can't seem to stop doing damage to herself.
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  #534  
Old 07-31-2011, 05:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mermaid1962 View Post
Sarah seemingly can't make up her mind whether her parents were wonderful or terrible.

Sarah Ferguson: 'My mother didn't beat me - it was just a joke' | Mail Online
As I said, there is low after low and this is another one. Seriously, Sarah should admit herself into therapy to get her mindset back on track. Its one thing to destroy yourself but another to drag other people into it, even more so when those people cant defend themselves anymore.
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  #535  
Old 07-31-2011, 10:24 AM
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Originally Posted by AristoCat View Post
Is Sarah possibly Borderline? I don't want ot get banned, but Diana was disgnosed with that by a couple authors and Sarah is certainly showing a lot of the behavioral patterns. Second, by 'joking' like that, she did a lot of damage. She can't seem to stop doing damage to herself.
I have previously suggested the possibility of histrionic personality disorder because IMO Sarah's behaviour exhibits many of the symptons associated with it. I was taken to task by one or two people who either disagreed with or disliked my viewpoint but whilst it was never my intention to do a putdown on Sarah, I did want to state that if there is a personality disorder here-and in the same way that I can't conceive that a sane person can deliberately carry out mass murder I can't believe that a person with a stable mindset can deliberately continue to act in a way that brings disgrace to herself and her family. However, I feel sure, that whilst her current team will allow her to be seen going through all manner of "trials" in order to find herself, I think they may hold back from talking about PDs because a "cure" may, IMO, take a lifetime to achieve.
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  #536  
Old 07-31-2011, 03:43 PM
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I wonder though, does Fergie have a lifetime? She's over fifty now, looks twice as old, and is accelerating her self destructive behavior. She is also looking like a total fruit on that documentary (dancing with a wtich doctor is not what I would call helping you move forward), and she has just some weeks ago, falsely accused her mother of being an abuser. This is sick stuff; throw in how she's used her daughters just recently and we have a woman who is actually accelerating her problems, not neutralizing them and getting them under control.
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  #537  
Old 07-31-2011, 05:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mermaid1962 View Post
Sarah seemingly can't make up her mind whether her parents were wonderful or terrible.

Sarah Ferguson: 'My mother didn't beat me - it was just a joke' | Mail Online

jeeeee this really does it, i think i can never look to Sarah as a trustable and grown up person again, can never take her serious anymore. for a long time i still had sympathy for her, even after the tabloid sting but now it is really over!
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  #538  
Old 07-31-2011, 05:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mermaid1962 View Post
Sarah seemingly can't make up her mind whether her parents were wonderful or terrible.

Sarah Ferguson: 'My mother didn't beat me - it was just a joke' | Mail Online
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tsaritsa View Post
I have previously suggested the possibility of histrionic personality disorder because IMO Sarah's behaviour exhibits many of the symptons associated with it. I was taken to task by one or two people who either disagreed with or disliked my viewpoint but whilst it was never my intention to do a putdown on Sarah, I did want to state that if there is a personality disorder here-and in the same way that I can't conceive that a sane person can deliberately carry out mass murder I can't believe that a person with a stable mindset can deliberately continue to act in a way that brings disgrace to herself and her family. However, I feel sure, that whilst her current team will allow her to be seen going through all manner of "trials" in order to find herself, I think they may hold back from talking about PDs because a "cure" may, IMO, take a lifetime to achieve.
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Originally Posted by AristoCat View Post
Is Sarah possibly Borderline? I don't want ot get banned, but Diana was disgnosed with that by a couple authors and Sarah is certainly showing a lot of the behavioral patterns. Second, by 'joking' like that, she did a lot of damage. She can't seem to stop doing damage to herself.
When I read the quotes from the 'Hello!' article, I couldn't believe it. Who 'jokes' about that kind of thing? On a series that's going to be televised nationally, potentially internationally? Though if it does air in the UK that's a change because I initially heard it was only for US distribution. This is an assembled show - a person has tons of time and plenty of opportunities to re-think what's going to get put into the final cut - especially a 'joke' in poor taste.

When I saw those quotes I did another about face - I have been so willing to give her slack - but something's not right. You could feel it in 'Finding Sarah' - or I could - I think most people could. Somethings not right. There really does need to be a Family Intervention.

I don't think she has a 'team' around her. That was for the series - Dr Phil even states that to her. As I mentioned before - when Dr Phil does his 'therapy' sessions on-air he always supplies the person with on-going counseling after the show is over. It does not appear that that took place here. In fact, I think she backed off from the therapy - with the Dr anyway - when she realized it was going to be serious (my speculation based on what I saw was her response to his hard-hitting questions early on). There was a point - after that moment - where the Dr began playing the role but was not engaging in therapy anymore, or that's how I saw it. That's my take.

I agree about being shuttered if one brings up these issues - like with Diana - but I feel these two women's stories are spookily similar. When people like this put themselves forward in a certain kind of way in the public eye - they lose a certain 'right' to hands-off treatment. Like Charlie Sheen - he's going to be publicly analyzed - and rightly so - though in his case its the addiction that is driving the behavior - but we need to name it, talk about it - else impressionable young people draw shallow conclusions - often considering certain behaviors and statements of sentiment as legitimate and a norm - when in fact they aren't.

What drives me to distraction is that the people around such dysfunctional folks do not step forward and surround the troubled one. In Charlie Sheen's case he has so much money he can pretty much sail along - but I think he's been somewhat reeled in by his family (can't be sure on that but hasn't he gone to ground?). In Sarah's case she doesn't have the money - nor a close family except for her in-laws. Andrew needs to have a sit-down talk, that includes her adult daughters. It has to be contained - they have to start stepping up to the plate.

In fairness to them - to Andrew - its hard to come to that place with someone - to take the step - especially when you have your own stuff to deal with. Only those who have had to face the tragedy of a family member going strange can really appreciate the dilemma - and its hard to tell sometimes when the line has been crossed. I think Beatrice knows - that''s what I saw. And if Andrew is as well a problem - then the two young women need an aunt or uncle to step forward - and then that becomes potentially problematical.

I deal with a lot of this celebrity/personality interface. Its a mistake we are making when we don't fully discuss cautionary tales - when we don't accept the dysfunction and instead wall-paper over the evidence - make it a question of 'rudeness', lack of professional credentials to make a diagnosis or justify it for the person or some such. These situations are painful to deal with when you have to watch it up-close-and-personal - its agony when strangers enable the dysfunction.

Anyway, I agree with you both on the essential points - and wish there were a more open willingness to have these things discussed. There are sociological ramifications to the 'images' we honor, the 'images' we believe are 'true'.
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Old 07-31-2011, 08:08 PM
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Quote:
What drives me to distraction is that the people around such dysfunctional folks do not step forward and surround the troubled one. In Charlie Sheen's case he has so much money he can pretty much sail along - but I think he's been somewhat reeled in by his family (can't be sure on that but hasn't he gone to ground?). In Sarah's case she doesn't have the money - nor a close family except for her in-laws. Andrew needs to have a sit-down talk, that includes her adult daughters. It has to be contained - they have to start stepping up to the plate.
I know how this sounds, but I have dealt with unstable people my whole life, much to my regret being family. If you keep them in and keep trying to reason wtih them, they will keep messing up and you will have to keep putting your life on hold. Her daughters have been 'helping Mommy' for a huge part of their lives and being exploited by her. Andrew and the RF have been bailing her out all the time, with her always messing up and throwing it back in their faces. With people who are self destructive, they will take those they are close to or protected by down with them. Chances are Sarah is well into her final spiral of self destruction and the best thing to do would be for her family to step back and protect the princesses; they are the ones who are going to need all the love and support they can get from Andrew and the RF.

At this point, the two princesses are going to need all the love and all the support that their family has to give. Once their mother self destructs in the final act (whatever form it takes), they will need all the guidance that their family has to give them. They will need all the support and understanding in the world. Sarah has made her choices, time to start mkaing her experience the consequences. I don't know what bitterness has eaten her up inside, but it's killing her slowly, but surely and she's costing Beatrice and Eugenie their rights as royalty. Their futures are more uncertain than ever and they are likely to now end up with a lot less security in regards to prospects. Bad enough they are not vulnerable to any nutjob, but now they keep getting it in the neck each time their mother pulls something.
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Old 07-31-2011, 08:12 PM
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I hope that the men that Beatrice and Eugenie eventually marry are supportive and strong for them.

For those who saw the Sarah series, did she seem like she was "making a joke" when she talked about her parents? That's not the impression I have from those of you who've discussed it here.


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At this point, the two princesses are going to need all the love and all the support that their family has to give. Once their mother self destructs in the final act (whatever form it takes), they will need all the guidance that their family has to give them.
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