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  #201  
Old 06-24-2011, 08:19 AM
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But by what means does it become possible for one person/body to prevent another from taking a particular course? For criminal actions there can be a prison term which is punishment but not necessarily a cure. In Sarah's case, credit could be withdrawn universally, but there will always be private lenders. Exhusband and daughters MIGHT be persuaded to cut all ties with her unless she reforms, but I think it highly unlikely. These three options ask more of others than they do of Sarah, who is saying that her life is a mess but taking NO responsibility for it being so-and to be honest, she doesn't need to. She has the world and his wife running round like headless chickens attempting a "cure" on her behalf while she does nothing except bathe in the attention. If "cure" is possible-and I have my doubts, I think we are seeing Sarah being Sarah and if the world at large doesn't like it, tough,the only person who can evince it is Sarah and she has to want it.
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  #202  
Old 06-24-2011, 10:09 AM
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Finally watched the two episodes with Dr. Phil. Tried to view this with a open mind. When Dr. Phil questioned her about the cash access, it seemed to me that she really didn't think she had done anything wrong or couldn't comprehend that what she did was wrong until after the fact. She tried to avoid this fact.

Her daughters have unconditional love for her and I doubt that they would cut ties with her. Prince Andrew I don't think would have her live in the street. She's lucky in that respect.

The Sarah I saw was a wounded person emotionally. Hopefully she will overcome this as she can not go on the way she is.
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  #203  
Old 06-24-2011, 11:17 AM
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I do not know the reason for sure,but I've observed Sarah is more liked and understood by Americans than by the British people
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  #204  
Old 06-24-2011, 11:24 AM
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I can believe that. I doubt she'll ever get a fair press in Britain.
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  #205  
Old 06-24-2011, 11:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Lenora View Post
I do not know the reason for sure,but I've observed Sarah is more liked and understood by Americans than by the British people
If true it's because they don't know the whole story. Most of my countrymen and women know very little about the monarchy and Britain in general so anyone with a royal connection is interesting and the show is allowing her to play up the woe is me schtick with little opposition. She cries about how she was bullied by the media and avoids speaking about her own indiscretions in anything but a manner that makes her look like the victim, if at all, and voila you have sympathy.
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  #206  
Old 06-24-2011, 12:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Lenora View Post
I do not know the reason for sure,but I've observed Sarah is more liked and understood by Americans than by the British people
I strongly dispute that. Perhaps the same "Americans" (does that include Canadians, Central Americans, South Americans?) who devoutly believe that an alien met with President Bill Clinton in the White House think she's something special, but not all "Americans" are quite that stupid.
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  #207  
Old 06-24-2011, 01:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Tsaritsa View Post
She has the world and his wife running round like headless chickens attempting a "cure" on her behalf while she does nothing except bathe in the attention. If "cure" is possible-and I have my doubts, I think we are seeing Sarah being Sarah and if the world at large doesn't like it, tough,the only person who can evince it is Sarah and she has to want it.
I agree with you. Still, I watched the first episode of Finding Sarah on Oprah's website, and I have mixed feelings about it. On one hand, I definitely see that Sarah doesn't want to change and bathes in the attention. On the other hand, I really think she is emotionally "broken." There was something hollow about the look in her eyes.

I noticed that she kept asking two questions repeatedly: "Why do I 'self-sabotage?' ", and "How do you get self-worth?" And no one seemed to be able to answer those questions (to Sarah's satisfaction). It's easy to say that Sarah needs to take responsibility for her behaviour and change, but I think the problem is: Sarah "self-sabotages" because she really doesn't have self-worth. On the program, I saw a woman who genuinely believes she is an awful, disgusting person. I think she keeps running around looking for more money and more attention because money and attention distract her from the fact that that deep down, she thinks she is worthless and doesn't really know who she is.

I think that also ties into her unwillingness to change. Basically, if you believe you fundamentally aren't a "good person", why even try to "be good"? You know you will fail anyway. So you might as well run around looking for quick fixes, shopping and superficial attention from strangers, to fill the void.

On a superficial level, I think Sarah doesn't want to change. She wants to carry on as she always has (being childish and impulsive). On a deeper level, though, I think she wants to be different - but she doesn't think she's capable of being a better person.
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  #208  
Old 06-24-2011, 01:54 PM
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As a Canadian, I would hazard a guess that most Canadians (and Americans) don't know anything about Sarah and aren't at all interested. Her book sales will be a good indication of the interest. I have my doubts. Now if Pippa was to write a book...it would fly off the shelves!
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  #209  
Old 06-24-2011, 02:18 PM
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Originally Posted by rmay286 View Post
Sarah "self-sabotages" because she really doesn't have self-worth. On the program, I saw a woman who genuinely believes she is an awful, disgusting person. I think she keeps running around looking for more money and more attention because money and attention distract her from the fact that that deep down, she thinks she is worthless and doesn't really know who she is.

I think that also ties into her unwillingness to change. Basically, if you believe you fundamentally aren't a "good person", why even try to "be good"? You know you will fail anyway.
The point is (and I wrote that before) that today psychiatry has suitable methods and medication to help people like Sarah who cannot feel love for themselves and cannot feel that they are loved by others.

If Sarah only would be able to realise that she is loved by her family, that she has sympathizers and that there are trustworthy people who would help her, then she could try to change, slowly at first but changing till she comes to a point where she says: well-done, Sarah, move-on.

I simply don't think standing on a rock in the desert crying "Why?" is going to help her when the "Why?" is not the question she should ask but: "What can I do to feel better?" and realise that shopping sprees and buying sympathy from foreigners is not the right way to achieve satisfaction at all!

She may ask "Why?" to whoever she will meet after her death if there still is the need to ask someone,

At the moment she has all she needs to pick up her life and change it. She has people who love her, a place to stay, the occasional fun outing and the chance to be helped by professionals.

But instead she threatens all that by going public with people who only see her as a dollar-bringing Royal shipwreck.

I don't want to talk about the numerous opportunities Sarah had not to be bored when she was still married to Andrew. She could have used her access to the private Royal archive to look out for a co-author and write books about former members of the BRF. She could have written children's books about life in a palace then and now. She could have gone into publishing coffee table books about things Royal. I am sure the queen would have allowed her to do things like that I don't doubt that she could have kept her part of the proceedings just like Prince Edward could have kept his from his film production (only that he didn't make any money from it). She could have even done a "prince Daniel" and attend university on a "Royal" or paid ticket to follow up on her interests in history.

Well, she didn't and I understand that looking back at all those opportunities lost she has no more self-respect and loathes herself for making so many terrible mistakes. But she could stop doing them and opt to think for maybe the first time about the consequences her doings have for other people, especially her family. And find thusly her self-respect again. But I doubt she'll be able without taking professional help first.
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  #210  
Old 06-24-2011, 02:42 PM
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Not to go to far off topic but the other day I was watching an interview (Inside the Actors Studio) with Angelina Jolie and the point was brought up about her going to therapy. She says even though she didn't think it was good for her she did learn one important thing and that was that there are no simple answers. I think that is Sarah's problem. She think's there is a simple answer to everything (remember the Finding Sarah episode where she asks Suzi how do you get self-worth?) she wanted Suzi to give her a simple answer as to how to get it. It seems as though she thinks everything is black and white and it isn't.

I honestly think the family needs to set up a PRIVATE intervention including Andrew, the girls, and professionals (who are not the Dr. Phil TV personality types) and try to figure out what her problems are and why she continues to do the things that she does. She seems almost unwilling to admit that she even has a problem (which as we know is the first step to recovery).
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  #211  
Old 06-24-2011, 03:28 PM
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Originally Posted by nascarlucy View Post
it seemed to me that she really didn't think she had done anything wrong or couldn't comprehend that what she did was wrong until after the fact. She tried to avoid this fact.
This is typical of HPD behaviour. At some level she is probably convinced that everthing she has done is a result of cause and effect, that her failures are the results of poor advice given by others-which is true, because she has no idea of what constitutes "reliable," and to the unreliable she is the perfect gift-but the buzz she probably experiences from doing certain deals may be so great that it would make it impossible to relinquish this form of "high". So, convince people that the responsibility lays elsewhere and she remains free to continue a pattern of behaviour that she enjoys. I would hate to know that I could never again eat chocolate, drink wine or give up any pleasure that makes a difference in my life so I think I can understand her reluctance, which may be contributing to her brokenness.
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  #212  
Old 06-24-2011, 04:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Tsaritsa View Post
but the buzz she probably experiences from doing certain deals may be so great that it would make it impossible to relinquish this form of "high". So, convince people that the responsibility lays elsewhere and she remains free to continue a pattern of behaviour that she enjoys. I would hate to know that I could never again eat chocolate, drink wine or give up any pleasure that makes a difference in my life so I think I can understand her reluctance, which may be contributing to her brokenness.
I see that too. For some reason that I don't completely understand (HPD might fit), Sarah doesn't get the same "highs" from ordinary things that most of us would. Where most of us would be satisfied with having lunch with a friend, being praised for work well done, a dinner out with family, buying a new outfit occasionally...those ordinary things aren't "enough" for Sarah. She "needs" (or thinks she needs) constant praise and affirmation and a jet-set lifestyle which involves designer clothes and purses and lavish parties, just to feel like she is living a happy, normal life. Except she never really has enough - she always wants more. I don't want to call it greed, although I think it is greed in a sense. But in another sense, it's an attempt to fill some kind of a void.

I feel like Sarah really does not have self-worth and if you took away all the money, the fame, and the attention, she would be left with "herself." And she doesn't like who she is. She buys expensive things, rubs shoulders with the rich and famous, and drops endless references to her royal connections, because all these things make her feel worthy in some way. If they were gone, she would be lost. That's why I think she's clinging to her past lifestyle and doesn't want to change.

She's afraid of being alone with whatever demons keep haunting her (and I think it's hard to deny that Sarah is haunted by some sense of worthlessness after watching her sessions with Dr. Phil and Suze Orman. I think she was trying to construct a sob story and deny the truth sometimes, but then there were other times when I think her tears were real).
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  #213  
Old 06-24-2011, 05:03 PM
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When you loathe yourself or think that you are disguisting, you have low self-esteem and self-worth. It's an awful feeling. Very awful feeling.

When I was a child, from time to time I had these feelings but couldn't understand it. I was loved and was not the victim of physical or verbal abuse nor was I around any adult who mistreated me. For most people, this is where self-esteem and self-worth issues start. Other people outside my family often treated me badly (verbal abuse at school from other peers, very mean hateful things said to me, lies were told about me, etc) and I was ashamed of it and didn't tell anyone for a long time. From what Sarah said, it sounds like her issues started when she was a child.

Despite this, I didn't use this as an excuse (because I have weight issues, I could have blame what happened to me as school) or do things and then use this as an excuse. I had a moral compass and knew right from wrong.
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  #214  
Old 06-24-2011, 06:44 PM
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IMHO Sarah just doesn't know who Sarah is and "Finding Sarah" didn't help. For the last 25 years she has earned her living promoting herself as The Duchess of York...so in her mind that is who she is, but she's not. The RF do not consider her a part of their family (rightly so)...so she's always on the outside, looking in. She has nearly always lived with Andrew and their daughters, living like she is one of them...royalty, but she's not. Add to that all the bad press that she receives (admittedly, most of it deserved). It's no wonder she has a lot of mental and emotional baggage.
Unfortunately, the time for finding Sarah was 25 years ago.
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  #215  
Old 06-24-2011, 07:32 PM
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Thakfully, we cannot incarcerate people in psychiatric units because their personalities are different from our own. An odious little man in Germany tried that and some still suffer as a result. However, I believe you are entirely correct in your suggestion that the whole family needs to learn how to deal with the situation, how to support without enabling. The only way to bring about change in another person's behaviour is by changing our own.
Being on a psychiatric unit is not equal to Incarceration. I think why some people are bringing up hospitalization, medication, and rehab is that
The way Sarah is being presented on this show she looks like someone with major clinical depression. While I agree she has self esteem issues and misplaced values, I don't think she has clinical depression to the degree that she needs meds or a psych admit. And if she does have this then it is extremely irresponsible for Dr Phil "to treat" her in this TV forum.

My only other thought that might explain Sarah's excesses, is some form of bipolar disorder. But again a competent professional would have to explore this in private sessions with Sarah and her family.
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  #216  
Old 06-24-2011, 07:53 PM
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I think that people who were teenagers or adults during the wedding of 1986 and the Royal tours of 1987 and 1989 could remember her fairly easily. Prince Edward is the one people have trouble remembering.

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As a Canadian, I would hazard a guess that most Canadians (and Americans) don't know anything about Sarah and aren't at all interested.
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  #217  
Old 06-24-2011, 08:04 PM
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No, it's not in most cases. But if a person is hospitalized against her will, it would feel like prison. I don't know what the law is in Britain; but here it usually requires the signature of two doctors or that the person is a threat to the life of herself or others. So a person would have to be in desperate, dangerous shape for that to happen. I can't see Sarah getting inpatient help voluntarily unless it's part of a deal; "We'll make sure you never go hungry and always have a roof over your head if you go for treatment."

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Being on a psychiatric unit is not equal to Incarceration.
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  #218  
Old 06-25-2011, 01:49 AM
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I see that too. For some reason that I don't completely understand (HPD might fit), Sarah doesn't get the same "highs" from ordinary things that most of us would. Where most of us would be satisfied with having lunch with a friend, being praised for work well done, a dinner out with family, buying a new outfit occasionally...those ordinary things aren't "enough" for Sarah. She "needs" (or thinks she needs) constant praise and affirmation and a jet-set lifestyle which involves designer clothes and purses and lavish parties, just to feel like she is living a happy, normal life. Except she never really has enough - she always wants more. I don't want to call it greed, although I think it is greed in a sense. But in another sense, it's an attempt to fill some kind of a void.

I feel like Sarah really does not have self-worth and if you took away all the money, the fame, and the attention, she would be left with "herself." And she doesn't like who she is. She buys expensive things, rubs shoulders with the rich and famous, and drops endless references to her royal connections, because all these things make her feel worthy in some way. If they were gone, she would be lost. That's why I think she's clinging to her past lifestyle and doesn't want to change.

She's afraid of being alone with whatever demons keep haunting her (and I think it's hard to deny that Sarah is haunted by some sense of worthlessness after watching her sessions with Dr. Phil and Suze Orman. I think she was trying to construct a sob story and deny the truth sometimes, but then there were other times when I think her tears were real).
The trappings,ARE Sarah. Strip them away and
there is NOTHING, Sarah ceases to exist. Can anything be more scary? The lifestyle she has constructed for herself both validates and affirms her but all addictions are greedy and as time goes on they demand more to achieve the same effect-in Sarah's case, confirming her very existence. I don't believe her to be clinically depressed but I do feel that she is very frightened that she will "disappear", and because of that, on ocassions, the tears are real.
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  #219  
Old 06-25-2011, 01:58 AM
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The trappings,ARE Sarah. Strip them away and
there is NOTHING, Sarah ceases to exist. Can anything be more scary? The lifestyle she has constructed for herself both validates and affirms her but all addictions are greedy and as time goes on they demand more to achieve the same effect-in Sarah's case, confirming her very existence. I don't believe her to be clinically depressed but I do feel that she is very frightened that she will "disappear", and because of that, on ocassions, the tears are real.
But she is loved. By her daughters at least. Why can't she just live quietly, enjoy her daughters success in society with the occasional outing for herself instead of showing off her flaws at international TV?
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  #220  
Old 06-25-2011, 03:06 AM
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KNOWING one is loved is quite separate from FEELING one is loved and Sarah might be prepared to sell her soul for a few moments of knowing what FEELING herself to be loved feels like. As to the "flaws", if they are removed, where is the need for Sarah to be on international TV......or where is the need for Sarah to BE?
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