Sarah, Duchess of York 9: November 2007-January 2008

[MARG]

Originally Posted by ysbel

When I saw your article I was more struck by the fact that Sarah and Andrew seem really chummy and very close friends.

Very close indeed!! I've always wondered about their 'relationship'.

Originally Posted by ysbel

If I were the Norwegian tycoon, I'd be a lot more worried about that than I would be about her tights.

Too right!!

Originally Posted by ysbel

Nothing like an ex-husband looking over your shoulder when you're trying to date a new woman.

Even though the girls are (young) adults any potential 'step' would be under the microscope, officially. Any potentential husband even more so (unofficially), I suspect.

[jcbcode99]

I doubt if we're looking at marriage anytime soon for Sarah; and yes, I think it would be very difficult to marry the ex-wife of one of the Queen's sons--but we're (not that we know anyway) not at that point yet.
BTW--let's say Sarah does remarry--she would lose her title, wouldnt' she? Would the Queen give her a new title like Princess Alexandra who is now a Countess? I can't see that happening, but who knows?

[Warren]

On re-marriage to a non-titled person she would become Mrs xxx, and that would be the end of the York connection in name.

[ysbel]

Originally Posted by jcbcode99

I doubt if we're looking at marriage anytime soon for Sarah; and yes, I think it would be very difficult to marry the ex-wife of one of the Queen's sons--but we're (not that we know anyway) not at that point yet.
BTW--let's say Sarah does remarry--she would lose her title, wouldnt' she? Would the Queen give her a new title like Princess Alexandra who is now a Countess? I can't see that happening, but who knows?

I wasn't thinking of so much of marriage at this point but rather that an attentive ex-husband would put many a man off from the simple act of dating a woman to get to know them better.

I know that the Queen of Denmark has given Alexandra a title in her own right but I can't see that becoming standard practice even in Denmark. With the possibility of royals divorcing and re-marrying more than once, that's a lot of titled exes dotting the countryside at a time when the royal families are trying to tone down their numbers.

[selrahc4]

Originally Posted by jcbcode99

BTW--let's say Sarah does remarry--she would lose her title, wouldnt' she?

Some one who has a title doesn't lose it by re-marrying. As Warren mentioned, if Sarah re-married she would no longer be able to use " ,Duchess of York" as a surname. But Sarah doesn't hold a title so she has none to lose. Her ex-husband does have a title and while married to him she was the Duchess of York, which is a way of saying "Mrs. Duke of York".

[sirhon11234]

The status of ex-wives in the peerage system is so confusing; but I don't think Sarah would want to lose her style as Duchess of York.

[jcbcode99]

Sarah is still "Duchess of York" but she is no longer HRH The Duchess of York; upon her divorce she lost the HRH and the "The". Also, wasn't her legal name something like "Sarah Mountbatten-Windsor?" I guess it would still be her legal name unless she remarries.
So, while married, she was Her Royal Highness The Duchess of York and her full style was: Her Royal Highness, The Princess Andrew, Duchess of York, Countess of Inverness and Baroness Killyleagh
And now she is simply, Sarah, Duchess of York, meaning she is no longer a duchess she just holds the style? Also, in Scotland, wouldn't she still retain the style "Countess of Inverness" even after a divorce?

[selrahc4]

Originally Posted by jcbcode99

And now she is simply, Sarah, Duchess of York, meaning she is no longer a duchess she just holds the style?

Right, she isn't a duchess; she doesn't hold the style of a duchess, but she does hold the style of a divorced ex-duchess.

[Skydragon]

For women, the easiest way to remember it, is if you were born with it, it is yours. If you married it, if you remarry you lose it.

I honestly don't know if Sarah remembers who Sarah F is, but she will always have the connection through her daughters. Even if she couldn't introduce herself as Duchess of York, she would probably introduce herself as mother to princess Beatrice and Eugenie.

[Russophile]

Originally Posted by sirhon11234

I don't think Sarah would want to lose her style as Duchess of York.

IMO, I don't think she would much care if he's got a bunch of bucks.

[rmay286]

Originally Posted by ysbel

I wasn't thinking of so much of marriage at this point but rather that an attentive ex-husband would put many a man off from the simple act of dating a woman to get to know them better.

Judging from the way this Norwegian businessman is described, he doesn't seem like the type who's looking for someone to settle down with. Didn't an article quote his spokesperson as saying he was already in a relationship with someone else? Maybe he likes the fact that Sarah's close to Andrew, because it signals that she's not free for anything more than a casual flirtation, and that's all this man wants.

I don't really understand Sarah's behaviour, though. Andrew seems to date casually but everything I've ever seen/read of him suggests that he's never really wanted anyone but Sarah. On the other hand, half the time Sarah talks about wanting a man, and the other half of the time reminds everyone how close she is to Andrew. She complains that the royal family won't let her back in, then says she prefers spending most of her time in America. I can't imagine that Sarah is only hanging on to Andrew/the royals because she thinks she won't succeed without her title. If that's the reason, I think she's misguided. Title or not she'd still be a well-known face. Jackie Kennedy did not stop being famous when she became Jackie Onassis.

I kind of think Sarah wants the best of both worlds. I think it will be very interesting to see what happens when Prince Philip dies. Because I have a feeling Andrew thinks his father is the main obstacle preventing him and Sarah from remarrying. Whereas I think for Sarah, Philip might be more of an "excuse" (even if she doesn't realize this herself) to stay in this limbo state with Andrew. I think Sarah does want the security of Andrew and the royal family, but doesn't really have any interest in giving up the freedom she's gotten from being divorced. It goes along with her dressing and acting like she's eighteen. She's going to look increasingly pathetic if she tries to keep it up indefinitely, but I wonder what it would take to make her really let go of her past and move forwards?

[jcbcode99]

I don't know, Russophile--she seems to really enjoy flaunting her children's status--and in the US everyone thinks she's a real duchess and is royalty--I'm sure she likes that. Let's face it, would she have been able to become the face of Wedgewood, develop home fragrences for Bed, Bath, and Beyond. or formed a signature line of Moissante (I spelled it wrong) jewelery (which is just fake diamonds)--if she wasn't capitilizing on being the Duchess of York?
I'm sure she'd like the financial security, but she seems to hvae that in check now. I think she loves the title--

[Russophile]

JC, I'm sure she LOVES the title for what she can get out of it. If somebody else came along and offered more, with a prenup, say, I'm sure she would jump at that chance as well.
RMay, all this flip-flopping of the Duchess, is it me, or does it remind one of her Libra personality of the scales constantly dipping one way, then the next, then back the other way always searching for balance. . .

[ysbel]

Originally Posted by jcbcode99

Let's face it, would she have been able to become the face of Wedgewood, develop home fragrences for Bed, Bath, and Beyond. or formed a signature line of Moissante (I spelled it wrong) jewelery (which is just fake diamonds)--if she wasn't capitilizing on being the Duchess of York? --

Of course not and that is why she did it. She had debts to pay and the Duchess title was her one sellable commodity. The Queen seemed to prefer that than paying Sarah's debts.

I agree with the rest of the members here, for both Andrew and Sarah, its time to move on. I don't think Sarah would lose much right now by losing her title. People here don't know her as the Duchess of York but as Sarah Ferguson, Prince andrew's ex and she still would be that if she remarried and dropped the title.

She could still keep the Wedgewood, the Moissante, etc. The title was good for giving her name recognition, but now she doesn't need it anymore.

[judith14011]

Sarah absolutely needs her title and she knows it. If she didn't, she would have moved away from it long ago. Sarah uses her daughters as commodities as well - she will keep them so close to her as to stangle them, all the while insisting that they want her acting this way - they love her being so "hip hop, mad" (a direct quote from her interview in the November Harper's Bazaar Magazine") and want her out bar hopping with them. She also says "they decide, I guide." I very much doubt it.

Sarah will do whatever she has to do to keep herself afloat. I admire her tenacity but her immaturity and clinginess are most unattractive, as is the hind end kissing of Camilla, The Queen and the RF in general.

[ysbel]

Originally Posted by judith14011

Sarah absolutely needs her title and she knows it. If she didn't, she would have moved away from it long ago. .

Why do you say Sarah needs her title?

[Russophile]

Judith might mean that she has USED the title but doesn't NEED it, but Judith should really weigh on in this.

[ysbel]

That makes more sense Russophile. Well I think she needed it at the beginning to keep herself afloat but now that she is financially solvent and she has her own brand identity, I don't think her endorsements are going to dry up just because she becomes plain Sarah Ferguson again.

Americans are a contradiction; we like titles, and they are good for catching our attention but I don't think we really put that much weight in them.

Diana von Furstenberg got people's attention because she was a countess but after awhile people here just knew her for her jeans.

I think over here, people don't care how you got the attention but once you're on the public's radar, you can move away from what made you famous in the first place.