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  #41  
Old 11-06-2008, 03:27 AM
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In my humble opinion Sarah Ferguson will never ever be more than an embarassment to the royal family. She opens her mouth, whatever she says is kindly meant I am sure, but there is something called diplomacy - and obviously she has none. She absolutely barges in where angels fear to tread.
She has kind words to say to people, of course she does, many people do, but that doesn´t make them an asset to any family or a firm. She is uncontrollable, by that, I mean she does not take advice from anyone, not even the people she should be taking advice from. She threw food at people on a plane when she was a member of the royal family, I mention this as a faux pas, but never should have been done by a sober member of the royal family. (I think it was pre divorce) she embarassed people she never should have embarassed, her husband and the Queen in many ways. I wish she would move permanently to the US, she is appreciated there, she is what you call feisty and admire, it is a cultural difference, nothing is right or wrong here, but she would be be wonderful carrying on doing the kind of work she seems to be good at, weight watchers, tv ads. She makes people laugh. she is always ready to talk about anything. She is probably the nicest person you can ever meet, but she is definitely NOT an asset to the BRF.
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  #42  
Old 11-06-2008, 05:51 AM
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Originally Posted by murphy's mom View Post
It's such a shame that with all her good qualities, and before the situations with Steve Wyatt and John Bryan got so out of hand, something couldn't have been done to salvage her marriage with Andrew and/or allow her to remain a working member of the RF. She could have been such an asset!!! Maybe someone within the RF could have stepped in and worked with her, shown her how to behave more appropriately for a royal. Maybe the Queen???
Welcome! The problems with Sarah and her men friends were only 2 of her problems. HM was far too busy to give Sarah extra tuition, either you know how to behave or you don't and Sarah didn't.
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  #43  
Old 11-06-2008, 06:14 AM
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Originally Posted by rmay286 View Post
Re: Sarah and the girls in Turkey: Of course Sarah is going to be accused of only making the trip and participating in the documentary to raise her public profile, but firstly, celebrity endorsements of causes do draw interest that wouldn't otherwise have been raised. I have no doubt that some (or many) celebrities endorse causes mainly because it makes them look good, but my second point is, if Sarah really wanted get attention, she could have done so by endorsing something trendy and less messy (both politically and emotionally) such as the environment or animal rights. Many celebrities are constantly plugging those causes because they're popular and don't require much (if any) sacrifice on the part of the celebrities.
Is that why so many celebs have leapt on the UN bandwagon, because it is trendy, less messy and doesn't require much self sacrifice? Most people, IMO, celebs or otherwise become involved in causes they care passionately about and then there are those that only seem interested in self promotion.
She has already appeared on the Beeb to defend her decision to appear on the programme with a rather sorry, IMO, defense of 'Look I'm not a member of the Royal Family', is this a play to get approval to marry back in, OMG I do hope not!
----------------
The Duchess of York has insisted that an undercover trip to Turkey did not undermine the Queen, or drag the Royal Family into a diplomatic row

BBC NEWS | UK | Duchess defends undercover visit
--------------
So, apparently it was not with government approval, nor with the approval of HM
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The Duchess said she was not a member of the Royal Family
Doesn't seem like a good introduction to diplomacy or on putting the Royal family before self promotion.
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  #44  
Old 11-06-2008, 06:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Skydragon View Post
Doesn't seem like a good introduction to diplomacy or on putting the Royal family before self promotion.
But then again, none of those are qualities one would typically associate with Sarah!
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  #45  
Old 11-06-2008, 08:53 AM
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Originally Posted by muriel View Post
But then again, none of those are qualities one would typically associate with Sarah!
What appears to be two different tales
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A spokesman for the Foreign Office made clear, however, that while they were aware of the Duchess's visit, they had not given their blessing to the trip.'Sarah Ferguson, the Duchess of York, and her daughter were visiting Turkey in a private capacity. The views expressed in the programme are the Duchess's own view and do not represent the view of the UK government,' they said
and
Quote:
and had permission from the Foreign office and all the other sources,' she said
So, according to the Foreign office no permission, according to Sarah, had permission.

'There's more to being a Royal than ribbon cutting': Princess Beatrice defends her TV documentary on orphanages | Mail Online

Sarah then goes on to say 'I would never in a million years do anything to embarrass the Royal Family. I support both the Queen and the Prince of Wales in everything they do". Sarah a word of advice, if that is the case keep your mouth shut and don't involve your daughters in anything HM wouldn't do herself!
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  #46  
Old 11-06-2008, 09:09 AM
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Good sound advice Sky but Sarah has never been one to take any notice of anything that upsets her whim of the moment. She just doesn´t seem to think anything through and it gets her into a lot of "scrapes" some far more serious than others.
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  #47  
Old 11-06-2008, 10:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Menarue View Post
In my humble opinion Sarah Ferguson will never ever be more than an embarassment to the royal family. She opens her mouth, whatever she says is kindly meant I am sure, but there is something called diplomacy - and obviously she has none. She absolutely barges in where angels fear to tread.
She has kind words to say to people, of course she does, many people do, but that doesn´t make them an asset to any family or a firm. She is uncontrollable, by that, I mean she does not take advice from anyone, not even the people she should be taking advice from. She threw food at people on a plane when she was a member of the royal family, I mention this as a faux pas, but never should have been done by a sober member of the royal family. (I think it was pre divorce) she embarassed people she never should have embarassed, her husband and the Queen in many ways. I wish she would move permanently to the US, she is appreciated there, she is what you call feisty and admire, it is a cultural difference, nothing is right or wrong here, but she would be be wonderful carrying on doing the kind of work she seems to be good at, weight watchers, tv ads. She makes people laugh. she is always ready to talk about anything. She is probably the nicest person you can ever meet, but she is definitely NOT an asset to the BRF.
I totally agree with this. Completely.
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  #48  
Old 11-06-2008, 10:21 AM
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Those are really nice pictures, Ice! I actually think Sarah looks pretty good. In one of the pics she reminds me of the actress Julianne Moore.
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  #49  
Old 11-06-2008, 11:38 AM
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ITV showed a clip of Sarah defending her decision and also from the maker, who said that Sarah asked him, not the other way around. He was, IMO, very careful with his phrasing, when saying this was made with unprecedented royal approval, unfortunately he fails to say which royal, after all Beatrice is an HRH as is Andrew.

The reaction of Eugenie whilst in the orphanage was natural, the same cannot be said afterwards, or I would hope it was 'for camera', when she said words to the affect of 'wow, like I mean I made her so happy'.

Were the images shocking, of course they were, will this have helped, in the short term perhaps, long term no, because now when the European inspectors visit, it will all be shiny and new!

Well done Sarah and the mini mummys, thanks for dragging HM and the Royal Family into the fray! Oh and Beatrice, if cutting ribbons and staying out of politics is not what you want, give up the HRH's!
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  #50  
Old 11-06-2008, 11:44 AM
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What....and give up their bodyguards?!
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  #51  
Old 11-06-2008, 11:56 AM
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Extremely well said Sky. I think you have echoed what a lot of us think about this "excursion".
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  #52  
Old 11-06-2008, 12:14 PM
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I don't think that visiting orphanages is political, Sky. Would it have been more appropriate if they had visited such a place in their home country? I think the cutting ribbons comment was basically her saying she wants to be more involved in issues than just the mundane and luke warm "events" like ribbon cutting. Isn't that what everyone wanted: the young royals being more hands and actually "earning" their titles and priviledges? Once again, they're damned if they do and damned if they don't.
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  #53  
Old 11-06-2008, 12:29 PM
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What was earning Princess Beatrice´s title and privileges? A visit to Turkey without the RF or Government´s permission. This is political meddling whether you like it or not. Sarah has shown she has no sense and it is a pity if her daughter takes after her.
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  #54  
Old 11-06-2008, 12:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Menarue View Post
What was earning Princess Beatrice´s title and privileges? A visit to Turkey without the RF or Government´s permission. This is political meddling whether you like it or not. Sarah has shown she has no sense and it is a pity if her daughter takes after her.
I stand by my opinon - whether you like it or not - that this is not a political situation. The fact that the British govt did not get involved makes it a personal/private trip and not political.
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  #55  
Old 11-06-2008, 12:41 PM
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I don't think that visiting orphanages is political, Sky. Would it have been more appropriate if they had visited such a place in their home country? I think the cutting ribbons comment was basically her saying she wants to be more involved in issues than just the mundane and luke warm "events" like ribbon cutting. Isn't that what everyone wanted: the young royals being more hands and actually "earning" their titles and priviledges? Once again, they're damned if they do and damned if they don't.
The problem is IMHo that no them or us decide what is political or not but the Foreign Office. If Sarah really decided to go through with this TV-opportunity against government advice claiming her privileges as "private citizen", it's okay for her. what she doesn't see IMHo is that she endangers her daughter's position as junior Royals. And I'm afraid Beatrice's interview did not help their cause at all.

Because the government can do so much to put the Royals in their place if they want to. The Royals are still there on top of society because the politicians have decided to let them be there and pay for the necessary expenses. Believe me, the queen is well aware how this works. Charles either.

I don't see them as being amused by their young relatives trying to define their Royal role against the advice of the Foreign office, when Beatrice has not even cut one ribbon yet. And don't forget: there's a case of precedence out there. There are male line grandchildren of HM around who are more or less private citizens, even though they are in line in the one digit section. So if the government insists Her Majesty might well force the York princesses to agree to a statement by Buckingham Palace that because they want to follow their own call of duty when it comes to charity, they have appealed to Her Majesty to be granted the right to be just daughters of a duke with the title, style and precedence of Ladies Beatrice and Eugenie Mountbatten-Windsor...
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  #56  
Old 11-06-2008, 12:57 PM
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I stand by my opinon - whether you like it or not - that this is not a political situation. The fact that the British govt did not get involved makes it a personal/private trip and not political.
Whether a royal princess likes it or not anything she does is considered by the Government, if she wants to be a private person let her be one, I don´t think anyone in Britain would mind very much. The royal family have privileges and they don´t earn them by going off against their own Government´s advice. It is a shame but the best advice anyone could give Princess Beatrice is to not take her mother´s advice.
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  #57  
Old 11-06-2008, 01:11 PM
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Sarah should really encourage her daughters to be like the rest of the royals in such a situation. Go visit places like Saudi Arabia where atrocities against women abound proudly and publicly, say nothing, take the massive gifts of jewels and go back home.
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  #58  
Old 11-06-2008, 01:21 PM
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Sarah should really encourage her daughters to be like the rest of the royals in such a situation. Go visit places like Saudi Arabia where atrocities against women abound proudly and publicly, say nothing, take the massive gifts of jewels and go back home.
I understand your point and you're right - though on thinking about it I don't see why you are a Royalist. For throughout history the Royal families were supporting cast for their souverain, nothing else and on going against that souverain's wishes they had to pay the price. Think about Leopold Wölfling! Royals do not only inherit privileges and precedence, they inherit duty as well. In former times they could retire to the countryside if they were lucky or were executed if they didn't do the bidding of the Head of the house, today they can get rid of their titles and become private citizens.

Noone forces the York princesses to support a system they don't feel they can accept. But IMHO there is no way they can keep their privileges and rank on being unsupportive.
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  #59  
Old 11-06-2008, 01:34 PM
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Sarah should really encourage her daughters to be like the rest of the royals in such a situation. Go visit places like Saudi Arabia where atrocities against women abound proudly and publicly, say nothing, take the massive gifts of jewels and go back home.
Or leave the governing to those that know how.
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  #60  
Old 11-06-2008, 02:01 PM
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I definitely support the monarchy (obviously ) and I agree that the Queen herself (or any other monarch) should remain above politics like any other diplomat. However, this particular trip encompasses more than day to day politics. It is a basic human rights issue. I think we can all agree that children being tied to beds and denied sunlight all day is a bad thing? Isn't there a time for decency and compassion to transcend politics? A lot of royalists would have preferred to remain in a time when royalty was all pagentry and pomp. When royals were given absolute deference and personal respect. When royals did clean charity work and kept themselves above their subjects. As we here talk about almost daily though, those times are changing and so is the role of the monarchy.

Prince Charles is constantly speaking about the environment and climate change. This is a noble thing for him to be doing by presenting facts and education on a controversial topic. So, are we to understand that it is only the "safe" issues that royals can be vocal about? You get approval and pats on the back for championing the fight against global warming, but if you champion the needs of the abused in a country that is seeking to become part of the EU, you get a slap on hand?

Sarah made this trip and she took her royal daughters with her. Their presence put a bigger spotlight on a horrible situation than had been reported on before.

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Originally Posted by Skydragon View Post
Were the images shocking, of course they were, will this have helped, in the short term perhaps, long term no, because now when the European inspectors visit, it will all be shiny and new!
I think it is a bit naive to believe that the European inspectors would have ever been allowed within 500 yards of the inmates that were photographed during Sarah's visit. Everything would have been made all 'shiny and new' before they ever got there, or at least everything that they would have been allowed to see would have been. Yep, you're right. That's much better.
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