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  #21  
Old 11-04-2008, 05:21 AM
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The Duchess was accompanied by her daughter Princess Eugenie, 18, and an undercover reporting team as they visited Turkey to investigate the conditions in state-run institutions for abandoned children

Nimet Cubukcu, the Turkish minister responsible for women and family, claimed the programme was deliberately scheduled to coincide with the release of a report on Turkey’s bid for European Union membership.
She said: “It is obvious that in this incidence that she is trying to leave Turkey in the midst of a smudge campaign.

Duchess of York deliberately smeared us, says Turkish government - Telegraph
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  #22  
Old 11-04-2008, 10:36 AM
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Sooo it's only okay to reveal these horrors when their membership is not up for discussion? I don't care what the timing was. This article turned my stomach and I'm glad Sarah took the time to make the trip public, whatever the reason.
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  #23  
Old 11-04-2008, 11:06 AM
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I wonder what will actually happen after this visit. It will definitely change Eugenie´s view of life from now on.
My great-great-grandfather took his young daughter to the inauguration of a new slaughter-house (why??????) and it had one repercussion at least, from the age of 16 onwards my great-grandmother never ate meat again. Besides that I don´t think anything happened at all. Perhaps there will be some action. It may be really just to exclude Turkey as the Turks suspect.... It was brave of Sarah to go, but I really don´t know why she exposed her young daughter to this.
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  #24  
Old 11-04-2008, 01:52 PM
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Maybe because life is ugly for some people and to appreciate what she has?
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  #25  
Old 11-04-2008, 02:21 PM
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I suppose so, but it can´t have been a good experience for her, perhaps she will want to help somehow.
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  #26  
Old 11-04-2008, 04:32 PM
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As someone who follows current events closely, it doesn't matter to me whether the goings-on in the orphanages were exposed by Sarah, the journalist, or someone else--I'm just glad they were brought to light. The Turkish goverment is whining that Sarah and/or Britain deliberately made them look bad? Well, Turkey has only itself to blame. No one appears to be distorting the truth about the conditions in the orphanages. The program appears to be doing what good journalism is supposed to do--exposing the truth. Turkey isn't the only country that has rights. The world and Europe in particular has a right to see this side of Turkey when considering Turkey as a potential member of the EU.
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  #27  
Old 11-04-2008, 06:24 PM
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It's been my experience that the ones that bellyache the loudest are usually the most guilty!
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  #28  
Old 11-04-2008, 07:54 PM
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Originally Posted by kimebear View Post
Sooo it's only okay to reveal these horrors when their membership is not up for discussion? I don't care what the timing was. This article turned my stomach and I'm glad Sarah took the time to make the trip public, whatever the reason.
Well said--I am in complete agreement.
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  #29  
Old 11-05-2008, 02:31 AM
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I find I agree with all of you, but isn´t this the job of investigative journalists or others in a position to do so, why the Duchess of York and her young daughter? Are they really that high profile that they will actually make a difference?
If (a very big if) it makes a difference to those poor sufferers then good, but if not it seems a bit cruel to use them as a means of getting attention for themselves and get in photo ops. I still think that if the Duchess (and I do think she is kind hearted and well meaning besides what I said) she shuld have gone alone.
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  #30  
Old 11-05-2008, 04:40 AM
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The actual program and investigation was done by journalist Chris Rogers from ITV, Sarah and her daughters went along to lift the profile of the program. They are high profile enough for 2 TV documentaries to be broadcast over 2 nights. Chris Rogers had previously done a documentary on orphanages and institutions for the disabled in Romania, and the outrage that followed that helped bring about change in the way Romania cares for its disabled.
This documentary and the conditions of the children shown has got far more attention that had it just been the journalist on his own. Newspapers have covered the story, it's a far more high profile story than if Sarah and the princesses hadn't been involved. As far as going alone, maybe her daughters have a higher sense of wanting to see exactly what the conditions were like. They should be given credit for being out there and seeing it first hand, there's nothing like first hand experience, the sights, the smells to give a person a strong sense of wanting to bring about change. Constrast the criticism of Sarah taking her daughters there ( although being adults, they simply could have taken themselves) and Diana being lauded for taking William and Harry to homeless shelters.
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  #31  
Old 11-05-2008, 05:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Menarue View Post
I find I agree with all of you, but isn´t this the job of investigative journalists or others in a position to do so, why the Duchess of York and her young daughter? Are they really that high profile that they will actually make a difference?
If (a very big if) it makes a difference to those poor sufferers then good, but if not it seems a bit cruel to use them as a means of getting attention for themselves and get in photo ops. I still think that if the Duchess (and I do think she is kind hearted and well meaning besides what I said) she should have gone alone.
I too think it is important to bring this out, but question the use of the young royals. While it may be seen as 'good' for them, one wonders about the youngsters they saw. Those that were willing to watch this sort of programme would have done so without the involvement of Sarah or her daughters, as indeed they did his last programme, in fact very many could be put off because of her involvement.

Alienating the government in charge is hardly going to encourage them to listen to anything anyone else says, it will probably encourage them to hide these atrocities even more.

The comparison between Diana taking the princes to homeless shelters and this is incomprehensible, the homeless shelters in the UK at that time would seem like a night in the Dorchester or Grosvenor.
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  #32  
Old 11-05-2008, 12:04 PM
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I'm struck by the difference between the "image" of the York girls that's portrayed in the taboids and celebrity media and the way they appear when they actually speak for themselves. The papers and mags and sites that count on dragging down the high and mighty for the sake of sales have a vested interest in portraying the young and wealthy and/or young and royal as empty-headed socialites only interested in having a good time. So for that reason alone, I think that it's good that the Princess accompanied their mother to Turkey. If Turkey's upset, well that's an unfortunate side-effect; but how can they possibly defend themselves about the horrid conditions in the orphanages?

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Originally Posted by Charlotte1 View Post
This documentary and the conditions of the children shown has got far more attention that had it just been the journalist on his own. Newspapers have covered the story, it's a far more high profile story than if Sarah and the princesses hadn't been involved. As far as going alone, maybe her daughters have a higher sense of wanting to see exactly what the conditions were like. They should be given credit for being out there and seeing it first hand, there's nothing like first hand experience, the sights, the smells to give a person a strong sense of wanting to bring about change. Constrast the criticism of Sarah taking her daughters there ( although being adults, they simply could have taken themselves) and Diana being lauded for taking William and Harry to homeless shelters.
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  #33  
Old 11-05-2008, 05:26 PM
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If Turkey's upset, well that's an unfortunate side-effect; but how can they possibly defend themselves about the horrid conditions in the orphanages?
They can't, however these things should be left to the undercover reporters not an ex royal and her children. The programme was being aired with or without the fillip of the grandchildren of the Queen being involved, (a position so many of you like to remind us of)! If HM was involved in giving permission, then she is guilty of interfering in the politics of another country!
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  #34  
Old 11-05-2008, 06:05 PM
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I've been your post a long, hard "think", and I concede your point about HM "interfering in the politics of another country." Then the questions need to be asked: Did she know how bad the conditions would be and therefore possibly anticipate Turkey's response; and, did she consult with anyone in the Government before giving permission? It's possible that Beatrice and Eugenie might learn a lesson in international diplomacy from this experience as well as see the horrific conditions that some children live under.



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They can't, however these things should be left to the undercover reporters not an ex royal and her children. The programme was being aired with or without the fillip of the grandchildren of the Queen being involved, (a position so many of you like to remind us of)! If HM was involved in giving permission, then she is guilty of interfering in the politics of another country!
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  #35  
Old 11-05-2008, 06:58 PM
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I've been giving your post a long, hard "think", and I concede your point about HM "interfering in the politics of another country." Then the questions need to be asked: Did she know how bad the conditions would be and therefore possibly anticipate Turkey's response; and, did she consult with anyone in the Government before giving permission?.
The monarch is not allowed to be 'political' and therefore it is unlikely the UK government would have given any indication that HM approve the visit. If she knew of the conditions, she would possibly have mentioned to Brown, her concerns, but if she knew, the government were already aware. All of which begs the question, was permission sought or given and if so by whom! If it was Buckingham Palace, was it with HM's permission and if so, that brings her into conflict with the UK government and her remit as sovereign. If it was the UK government, that leaves them open to the suggestion that they, (Gordon Brown) used members of the RF for their own means!

Or was it Sarah acting on her own, with never a care about diplomacy. The story has become about who agreed these girls could go on an undercover assignment, as opposed to the terrible conditions in Turkish orphanages, which should be the focus. IMO, of course.
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  #36  
Old 11-05-2008, 07:33 PM
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Wow Sky! Thanks for reminding me. I had forgotten that. HM is really under a lot of constraints about situations like that. It reminded me when Sarah had dinner with some questionable people and it was a big faux pas to HM.
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  #37  
Old 11-05-2008, 11:06 PM
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This is my first post, so please be kind! I saw the videos posted of Sarah and Eugenie visiting the cancer ward at Leeds, and I was so impressed with how warm, open and friendly Sarah was. It's such a shame that with all her good qualities, and before the situations with Steve Wyatt and John Bryan got so out of hand, something couldn't have been done to salvage her marriage with Andrew and/or allow her to remain a working member of the RF. She could have been such an asset!!! Maybe someone within the RF could have stepped in and worked with her, shown her how to behave more appropriately for a royal. Maybe the Queen???
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  #38  
Old 11-05-2008, 11:11 PM
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Or perhaps Prince Philip....?
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  #39  
Old 11-05-2008, 11:13 PM
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Welcome , murphy's mom! Enjoy yourself on this interesting board!!!
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  #40  
Old 11-05-2008, 11:33 PM
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Re: Sarah and the girls in Turkey: Of course Sarah is going to be accused of only making the trip and participating in the documentary to raise her public profile, but firstly, celebrity endorsements of causes do draw interest that wouldn't otherwise have been raised (for example, I think Oprah Winfrey's endorsement of Barack Obama boosted his campaign). I have no doubt that some (or many) celebrities endorse causes mainly because it makes them look good, but my second point is, if Sarah really wanted get attention, she could have done so by endorsing something trendy and less messy (both politically and emotionally) such as the environment or animal rights. Many celebrities are constantly plugging those causes because they're popular and don't require much (if any) sacrifice on the part of the celebrities.

Sarah is no longer a member of the royal family, but she is the mother of two royals, which is where things get tricky. The Queen is supposed to be apolitical, so assuming that she knew about the trip and sanctioned it, she could be treading into murky waters. Nevertheless, I still think it's excellent that Beatrice and Eugenie went to see the conditions in Turkey. What's a better teacher than direct experience? I personally wish I had the opportunities they have, as royals and with Sarah as their mother, to see the non-sanitized version of Turkey. As a Westerner, I think I and so many other people take privilege for granted and have no clue how deprived the rest of the world really is. The only people who didn't benefit from this documentary , IMO, are the leaders of Turkey (who shouldn't have benefited from it!) and petty little newspapers who like to criticize and find a scandal in everything.

Oh wait, maybe they did benefit from the documentary too, because discussing it is selling their papers...

murphy's mom, I have a theory that Sarah is eventually going to be seen as an asset to the royal family. It's a theory many people probably won't like, but I have my reasons for it!
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