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  #181  
Old 01-12-2012, 11:44 PM
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Those jerks are just upset that she outted their abuse of the children. Don't know about you people, but I'm going to pray for her and the kids. The UK would be stupid to hand her over, though thankfully that seems unlikly.
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  #182  
Old 01-13-2012, 12:25 AM
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^^^^
Possibly but another school of thought might say it could be good for diplomatic relations. Western nations are always talking about their values, and saying that people who come to the west must respect our values and laws, so the other side of the coin would be that if you travel to the east you must respect their values/laws which Sarah was apparently in violation of.
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  #183  
Old 01-13-2012, 12:38 AM
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It seems as if Sarah is also being targeted and not the producers of the programme.

What I expect will happen very soon is that the documentary will appear on TV - just what Turkey wants - the world to see again the way they treat children in orphanages - counter-productive from Turkey's point of view (most people had already forgotten abou the documentary but now it is front page news).

One thing Sarah will have to check in future is the attitude of any country she visits in relation to Turkey - if she lands in a country friendly with Turkey she could be arrested and extradited from there - not just from the UK. One side effect could easily be that Sarah has to remain in the UK for the foreseeable future.
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  #184  
Old 01-13-2012, 07:01 AM
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Sarah charged by Turkish authorities over orphanage film

Duchess of York charged by Turkish authorities over orphanage film - Telegraph

Poor Sarah! There she was trying to help children, to expose abuses and do some good in the world, and this is what she gets.
The UK press are playing up the prison sentence angle, but according to a BBC report I heard, there is absolutely no chance of that, and they would be very unlikely even to request extradition, and since her "crime" is not a crime in the UK, they couldn't hand her over.
So why are the turkish authorities doing this? It will only remind people of shocking abuses in their orphanage system that were forgotten by most people.
And Sarah has to deal with negative headlines that are in no sense her fault! No doubt people will argue that she should have known better than to get involved etc., but this was under the auspices of the Uk's biggest commercial TV network, and I think Sarah could reasonably assume that they would take care of legal matters.
I know many people take a very different view to me on the cash for access story, but surely even sarah's critics have to aknowledge that she is not in the wrong here. This seems to me to be a vindictive and unneccessary legal proceeding.
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  #185  
Old 01-13-2012, 10:32 AM
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Originally Posted by FergieFan View Post
Duchess of York charged by Turkish authorities over orphanage film - Telegraph

Poor Sarah! There she was trying to help children, to expose abuses and do some good in the world, and this is what she gets.
The UK press are playing up the prison sentence angle, but according to a BBC report I heard, there is absolutely no chance of that, and they would be very unlikely even to request extradition, and since her "crime" is not a crime in the UK, they couldn't hand her over.
So why are the turkish authorities doing this? It will only remind people of shocking abuses in their orphanage system that were forgotten by most people.
And Sarah has to deal with negative headlines that are in no sense her fault! No doubt people will argue that she should have known better than to get involved etc., but this was under the auspices of the Uk's biggest commercial TV network, and I think Sarah could reasonably assume that they would take care of legal matters.
I know many people take a very different view to me on the cash for access story, but surely even sarah's critics have to aknowledge that she is not in the wrong here. This seems to me to be a vindictive and unneccessary legal proceeding.
Hm... I agree with you that the topic was and is an important one. And to report about it means taking legal risks. Which is what reporters do all the time and they have to deal with the consequences as well. For Turkey it's easy: it was illegal and Sarah gave her celebrity status to thos ereports, thus she is the one to be charged. Especially as she brought Royal princesses into this, which can't be touched by the Turkish authorities.

As for the British side: who knows what goes on behind closed doors. Maybe this affair was not diplomatically solved by the British in order to have a leverage against Sarah in Jubilee Year? Her staying out of the limelight in exchange for HM's servant's help?

For Sarah must be careful now: if Turkey requests her presence at court by issuing an international warrant, then of course she won't be extradicted by the Uk. But I doubt she will get future visa for the US and must carefully check if a country she wants to travel to has an extradiction policy with Turkey, she must make sure that she doesn't use planes that fly over Turkey to Asia in case there is an emergency... stuff like that. Not really serious problems, but very, very bothersome.
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  #186  
Old 01-13-2012, 12:05 PM
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This is totally blown out of proportion, and I'm sure the Turkish government is not amused being caught red-handed allowing this type of abuse in their orphanages. Sarah may not be the sharpest knife in the drawer at times, but I feel she genuinely cares about the fate of children world wide. I think more of this type of investigating needs to be done, consequences be damned.
Just my opinion.
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  #187  
Old 01-13-2012, 01:27 PM
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I doubt there will be any serious or meaningful push for extradition, beyond Turkey's own posturing. While it's good for Sarah to be concerned about political issues, I consider it both foolhardy and somewhat grandiose for her to become involved in Turkey. Some people spend a lifetime in activism in this area, and really know the ropes - what Sarah brought to the project (I presume) is her name - and her notion of her name.

I think NGalitzine is right when she says this will give Sarah more interviews - and it seems to me she wants her name out there so much, she continues to be willing to do...dipsy things to do it. This was supposed to make her look responsible? It's really very much in line with some of her major gaffes (not well thought through, strong possibility that problems will arise, etc., etc.)

Every country has rules about what can and can't be filmed or studied inside its borders. Undercover journalism is dangerous business. Whoever conceived this project is unethical, as Sarah is not a journalist and doesn't know the basics of journalistic ethics - or methods.

There are already many documentaries (not famous ones of course) about this situation - Sarah would have done well to perhaps re-do the narration on them, or get permission to compile them into a new documentary (with her name on it) if she wanted to stay out of various kinds of trouble.

Which she doesn't. She likes looking "edgy." I just wish she wouldn't drag her kids into it. Not cool.
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  #188  
Old 01-13-2012, 01:45 PM
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Good observations, PrincessKaimi. We've grown accustomed to how Sarah conducts her life and her interests, but when she starts including her daughters into the mix, this is another story. They're still at the age where they're impressionable and might do anything to help their mom out, even if it's not in their best interests to do so.
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  #189  
Old 01-13-2012, 02:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Baroness of Books View Post
It looks like Sarah's wearing dark contacts as well as a wig. What puts me off somewhat is that Sarah's documentary is entitled "Duchess and Daughters: Their Secret Mission." Just the title gives me the impression that it's more focused on her rather than the dire conditions she filmed. I think it could have been better titled. And this is just a terrible situation that's unfortunately backfired and I hope this will be resolved without negative publicity, especially on Beatrice. It's a shame that in an effort to expose the bad conditions under which these children are living, the spotlight is back on Sarah.
I agree with you,but nevertheless the most important issue is to protect human rights and making sure that every human being is treated with respect and dignity.If her documentation helps to change the lives of orphans for the better, I can accept that she is only doing it for her PR-strategy.The condition of freedom of speech is very alarming in Turkey,in the past many intellectuals,reporters and artists have been jailed for criticising the government and/or mentioning human rights violations and discrimination of Kurdish people in Turkey.It is a topic that needs to be taken seriously,because if we accept and don´t speak up against injustice,the situation will gradually become worse...
I am not a fan of the Duchess,but getting 22 years in prison for "violating the privacy of the children" is just absolutely absurd.
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  #190  
Old 01-13-2012, 04:45 PM
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I do agree with your sentiments, and if Sarah used her title and her daughters in the documentary title as a PR strategy to attract more attention to a serious issue then of course it's an effective tactic if it gets the message across. A means to an end, if you will, to focus on terrible wrongdoing. It's just unfortunate that Sarah had consistently used her name and connections as a self-aggrandizement tactic to benefit herself, and it tends to make one question her motives. One can only be optimistic that in this case, she's trodding a more altruistic path with the best of intentions. I'm also concerned about the impact on her daughters and their implication in this situation.
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  #191  
Old 01-14-2012, 12:11 AM
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Here is something I don't understand - supposedly Sarah and Andrew both want the two girls to become working royals and the palace officials are very much against this idea. How could Sarah put her daughters in this position if she wants them to be working royals. This is just the kind of thing that will be the main arguement as to why there is no way on this Earth they will ever be allowed to represent the Queen.

Is this just another case of Sarah not thinking?
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  #192  
Old 01-14-2012, 12:43 AM
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This was over three years ago. At that time the expectation was they wouldn't be working royals had been around for about a decade - late 1990s actually.

They were never going to be full time royals as Charles never wanted them - and he has a large say, and increasingly so does William, as they are the future.

Andrew had a pipe dream but his older brother simply never wanted them to be in that role - as Charles has been advocating a smaller working royal family for years. Andrew has been fighting a loosing battle since the late 90s on this issue, even though the public haven't been fully aware of this until more recent years - as the girls approach working ages.

Sarah couldn't have taken the girls to Turkey without both Andrew and the Queen's consent so it is reasonable to assume that they had some idea of what was happening - even if they didn't know all the details - they would have known something. Eugenie was still under age at the time remember - she was 17.
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  #193  
Old 01-14-2012, 03:01 AM
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Knowing that Sarah wanted to make a trip to Turkey with her princess daughter is one thing; knowing Sarah would play undercover reporter «ą la James Bond» and break Turkish law is quite another thing!
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  #194  
Old 01-14-2012, 04:24 AM
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Knowing that Sarah wanted to make a trip to Turkey with her princess daughter is one thing; knowing Sarah would play undercover reporter «ą la James Bond» and break Turkish law is quite another thing!
That is what she went to Turkey and Roumania to do, expose the maltreatment of children, and you don't get to tell the real story with a large retinue of camera crew and watchers.

I am sure that both the Queen and Andrew were aware of the reason for the trip.
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  #195  
Old 01-14-2012, 11:21 AM
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I am sure that both the Queen and Andrew were aware of the reason for the trip.
I somehow doubt that. The Queen at least would have understood that it would be involving a member of the royal family in the domestic affairs of a foreign nation.
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  #196  
Old 01-14-2012, 02:53 PM
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Exactly how is anyone sure that the Queen and the Prince knew about this?

Sarah has been known to do all manner of things she ought not to, and should have sought permission for.

Where is it published that she asked permission for her daughter to travel? In general, if the child has a passport (and Eugenie does), the person can travel outside of Britain - all they'd have to have done is leave Britain (possibly by flying directly to Turkey, but in this case, since they wanted to be "undercover") it's likely they chose some other method (indeed, disguising herself after entering Turkey under proper identity would be the only legal method of travel - and that would be true for both of them).

It's possible that a father's permission would be sought for an underage child to travel internationally (but possible not within the Eurozone - I don't know). At any rate, I wouldn't be so certain that Sarah did things the proper way.
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  #197  
Old 01-14-2012, 03:00 PM
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Sarah could easily have said that they were going to Turkey on a holiday. It wouldn't have set off any alarms, because both Sarah and Andrew are known to like to vacation in exotic places. Had the real reason for the trip been known, I don't think that Eugenie would have been allowed to go--or Sarah for that matter. Even though Sarah wasn't a member of the BRF at the time, she still would have involved the Queen by virtue of her being the mother to the princess and having "Duchess of York" as part of her name. The monarchy in the UK survives because it's not political and doesn't get directly involved with other nations' business.
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  #198  
Old 01-14-2012, 05:24 PM
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Sarah could easily have said that they were going to Turkey on a holiday. It wouldn't have set off any alarms, because both Sarah and Andrew are known to like to vacation in exotic places. Had the real reason for the trip been known, I don't think that Eugenie would have been allowed to go--or Sarah for that matter. Even though Sarah wasn't a member of the BRF at the time, she still would have involved the Queen by virtue of her being the mother to the princess and having "Duchess of York" as part of her name. The monarchy in the UK survives because it's not political and doesn't get directly involved with other nations' business.
I would imagine though that the powers that be knew exactly where Eugenie was going because at that time I believe she had full protection officers by her side around the clock. I really don't think it would be possible for her to have gone anywhere "under the radar" as a princess of the UK.
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  #199  
Old 01-14-2012, 06:08 PM
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I think that the intent of the trip might have been a secret until after Sarah and Eugenie left the UK. Perhaps Eugenie's protection officers didn't know until the day of the orphanage visit. Whatever Sarah was up to wasn't really their concern.
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  #200  
Old 01-14-2012, 07:17 PM
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The Queen has to know at all times where her family is and also so do the government due to the security issue as it has to be approved and checked in advance. Sarah couldn't just take Eugenie somewhere without security having already been told and checked. As Eugenie was having taxpayer funded security that security also can stop her going somewhere that would put her in danger - (they don't have the job to stop her doing something illegal although they can warn against it).

It is for this reason that I do believe that the powers that be in Britain knew what was planned.
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