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  #541  
Old 09-09-2013, 09:22 AM
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Originally Posted by sndral View Post
Some of the articles say he did respond w/ anger.
How often does he stay @ Buckingham Palace? I thought he lived elsewhere. From the perspective of the security/police officers the primary residents are in Scotland, where they alerted that another member of the family would be in residence? Where they alerted that said member would be roaming the grounds (the former chief of security quoted in the article suggests that this is protocol.) If the answer to both those questions is yes, then his irritation is understandable and the police owed Prince Andrew an apology, which they tendered.
If on the other hand they believed the family was elsewhere (and Andrew had just returned from vacation) then I err on the side of better safe than sorry when you run into a person where you don't expect to 3 days after a burglar made it all the way inside the palace. A simple demand to see an ID under those circumstances doesn't seem out of line to me.
Let's hope that both the extended family and those who are responsible for protecting the grounds, the palace and the person of the sovereign now have a method of clear communication in place so that they can do their job and Andrew can enjoy mommy's garden w/out having his ego bruised by the fact that he's not as recognizable as he thinks.
You are joking aren't you? You really think the problem is Andy?

The squad tasked with Royal Protection, like those of Diplomatic Protection, are, or should be, absolute professionals. That means they know who all the members of the family (both immediate and extended) are, which members are present,which are who the members of staff are and which ones are present at any given time. That means they are not thrown off because a member of the family didn't ask permission to enter their own home. The first line of defence is it's entrances which are, of course, electronically monitored. A car doesn't pass in or out of the Palace grounds that is not caught on cameras which are monitored 24/7.

To that end, it is a fundamentally basic requirement that they can at least identify those they are there to protect. This is not an unreasonable expectation but a rather pedestrian bottom line. That is the very essence of their job and if they can't get that right then we have a problem and that problem is not some patronising drivel about Andy's supposedly bruised ego!

The UK is renowned for the efficiency and efficacy of it's Police. This is one big slap at it's hard won reputation and the second in less than two weeks. If they are perceived as being a big joke, Keystone Cops even, then the security of the BRF is under threat. Not Andy's ego!
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  #542  
Old 09-09-2013, 09:35 AM
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I think it costs an important public person nothing to respond with grace. Petulant and entitled is not a good look on a man in his 50s.

It sounds as if there is no policy (or a policy not followed) for ascertaining the movement of the family about the grounds. I don't mean track them room to room - but it would be prudent to know when family arrives at BP, leaves the building, moves from private residence to state rooms or offices (different security zones), leaves the Palace, etc. If someone is out on the grounds alone - we all know they could be an easy target for a sniper's rifle. Or someone out for a walk could fall ill or get injured.

I realize the family may prefer to wander at will - but that's just silly from the standpoint of benchmark security procedures.
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  #543  
Old 09-09-2013, 04:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sndral View Post
Some of the articles say he did respond w/ anger.
How often does he stay @ Buckingham Palace? I thought he lived elsewhere.
Like all royals he has a country residence - Royal Lodge at Windsor - and a London base - Buckingham Palace. So he does live at BP and was taking a walk in his own garden.

Quote:
From the perspective of the security/police officers the primary residents are in Scotland, where they alerted that another member of the family would be in residence?
As this is also Andrew's home and he had obviously entered the palace from his engagement that day they would have known he was there.

Quote:
Where they alerted that said member would be roaming the grounds (the former chief of security quoted in the article suggests that this is protocol.)
We don't know this.

Quote:
If on the other hand they believed the family was elsewhere (and Andrew had just returned from vacation) then I err on the side of better safe than sorry when you run into a person where you don't expect to 3 days after a burglar made it all the way inside the palace. A simple demand to see an ID under those circumstances doesn't seem out of line to me.
Andrew had been on an engagement during the day so would have returned and been noted to have returned to his London home.

Why would he need identity in his own home - to get in yes but once inside the palace and the grounds no.
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  #544  
Old 09-09-2013, 05:08 PM
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In pictures, he looks bloated and not the way he used to look. If he lost at least 20 pounds and worked out he might be more easily recognizable. Walking in the garden was at least getting some exercise, too bad the police interrupted him doing something healthy! Maybe he had determined to walk around the garden as many times as possible each week, to get mild exercise. I don't usually recognize him in pictures unless he is identified. Charles and Edward are more distinctively themselves in pictures.
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  #545  
Old 09-09-2013, 05:42 PM
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I have no problems recognising him as he hasn't changed that much other than a bit of weight which may not mean he is unfit by the way.
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  #546  
Old 09-09-2013, 05:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Mariel View Post
In pictures, he looks bloated and not the way he used to look. If he lost at least 20 pounds and worked out he might be more easily recognizable. Walking in the garden was at least getting some exercise, too bad the police interrupted him doing something healthy! Maybe he had determined to walk around the garden as many times as possible each week, to get mild exercise. I don't usually recognize him in pictures unless he is identified. Charles and Edward are more distinctively themselves in pictures.
Then it's a good thing you are not one of those employed on the security staff at BP to protect Andrew!

They are employed to protect Andrew as he is now, not as he used to look. They should know what he looks like now, regardless of what he looked like in his youth.
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  #547  
Old 09-09-2013, 05:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
I have no problems recognising him as he hasn't changed that much other than a bit of weight which may not mean he is unfit by the way.
I don't think he's changed that much either. He still has the same facial features.

And as for being unfit, didn't he engage in some abseiling activity not long ago? And I think I recall a skiing holiday recently. You have to be quite fit to abseil and ski. He's put on a bit of weight but so do most people his age. Doesn't mean he's unfit. The fact he was out for a walk itself is an indication he takes care to keep fit.
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  #548  
Old 09-09-2013, 05:50 PM
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Exactly!

Surely Protective Services has a more recent photo of Andrew? Please tell me they aren't looking at a picture that is more than 3 to 5 years old?!

Furthermore, recognizing that BP employs hundreds of people so it would impossible for security (which might have high turnover) to know everyone and certainly not everyone in the extended BRF. But surely, they know who the top 10 (line of succession minus George) and their significant others?

Is that too much to ask?

But really, I take anything with a grain of salt from the Daily Mail.They need something to shake the worst of worst (i.e. some of their readership) who will proceed to complain about Andrew, the free loaders, his kids, etc.
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  #549  
Old 09-09-2013, 06:37 PM
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I would certainly expect all the staff at BP to be able to recognise all of the Queen's children and grandchildren and their spouses (with the obvious exception of George who very few of the royals have seen yet so you could understand the protection people not recognising him).

They should also know the other HRH's and their spouses and the Linleys and Chattos.
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  #550  
Old 09-09-2013, 06:50 PM
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If they can't identify someone like Andrew....Hope none of the little royal sprouts every decides to play and seek on the grounds else every poor passing child will be suspect
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  #551  
Old 09-09-2013, 07:17 PM
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Don't assume they saw his face. Seen from behind - one 50 some year old guy looks a lot like the rest. If he were in shadows or dappled sunlight - it would make ID even less likely. If he were looking in windows from the garden - he's be even harder to peg. The truth is, we don't know the circumstances.
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  #552  
Old 09-09-2013, 07:40 PM
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This issue does raise some interesting questions about the nature and extent of the security at BP. I would have thought that perhaps there were indoor and outdoor security people, and that they might have some fairly sophisticated technology and security cameras and communicate with walkie-talkie thingies like we see the uniformed police officers use in "The Bill", and that perhaps they might even tell each other when a member of the RF goes wandering around the grounds so they know who should be wandering around out there.
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  #553  
Old 09-09-2013, 08:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Roslyn View Post
This issue does raise some interesting questions about the nature and extent of the security at BP. I would have thought that perhaps there were indoor and outdoor security people, and that they might have some fairly sophisticated technology and security cameras and communicate with walkie-talkie thingies like we see the uniformed police officers use in "The Bill", and that perhaps they might even tell each other when a member of the RF goes wandering around the grounds so they know who should be wandering around out there.
Absolutely - do they even know when one of the family is there???? And if they do, how do they keep track of them? If they have no system - it is a bad on security. But if they had a system and the Duke ignored it - the bad is on him. Not that he would ever apologize. And we will never know the rest of this story.
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  #554  
Old 09-09-2013, 08:13 PM
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It seems that one the royals are inside their homes their RPOs leave their sides. The gardens of BP are walled so the RPOs wouldn't have to go with them unlike like KP where we have seen Kate and her RPO walking Lupo. It also seems that regular police protect the palace grounds so they might not know which royal is suppose to be where .
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  #555  
Old 09-09-2013, 08:23 PM
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Have we seen Kate and Lupo in the grounds of Kensington Palace or in Kensington Gardens that are open to the public year round - as is the palace itself of course.
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  #556  
Old 09-09-2013, 08:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Skippyboo View Post
It seems that one the royals are inside their homes their RPOs leave their sides. The gardens of BP are walled so the RPOs wouldn't have to go with them unlike like KP where we have seen Kate and her RPO walking Lupo. It also seems that regular police protect the palace grounds so they might not know which royal is suppose to be where .
But wouldn't there be some liaison between the BP security people and the police coming on duty, and the officers finishing their shift would liaise with those finishing their shift, surely. I doubt police just wander in and out at will any more than anyone else does. And when they report for the duty they should be told which members of the RF are in residence and some sort of effort made to ensure those officers know what those members of the RF look like.

And if the grounds are open to the public year round, as Bertie points out (or at least I think that is what she is pointing out), the need for someone to keep a fix on where the Queen's children, etc., are roaming would seem even more crucial. Perhaps they need microchips!
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  #557  
Old 09-09-2013, 08:35 PM
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BPs gardens aren't open year round but the Gardens next to KP which are actually public space and not enclosed.
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  #558  
Old 09-09-2013, 08:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
BPs gardens aren't open year round but the Gardens next to KP which are actually public space and not enclosed.
Ah! Thanks.

The more I think about it, the more appealing I find my idea of microchipping the Royals.
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  #559  
Old 09-09-2013, 08:40 PM
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(Croc hunter voice) "Oh crikey, what a special sight! A rare Windsor roaming in his natural habitat"
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  #560  
Old 09-09-2013, 09:24 PM
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Originally Posted by amaryllus View Post
(Croc hunter voice) "Oh crikey, what a special sight! A rare Windsor roaming in his natural habitat"
Ha, ha ,ha ,ha ,ha! Love it!
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