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  #901  
Old 07-15-2011, 10:41 PM
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I have the feeling--perhaps wrong, sliver_bic, that you've had a terrible trauma in your life. Do you think that something similar has happened to Sarah?


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Try to imagine the worst possible thoughts running through your head at high speed. The ones you avoided forever because you simply couldn't deal.
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  #902  
Old 07-15-2011, 11:45 PM
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I think that Sarah is close to pulling something horrific; she still hasn't been thrown out ot really fend for herself, which would be the ultimate correction, but she is for some sick reason being coddled. I think that for some time she was heading towards the pay for access scandal, but since Oprah rescued her, she's headed towards something else, soemething much worse.
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  #903  
Old 07-16-2011, 08:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mermaid1962 View Post
I have the feeling--perhaps wrong, sliver_bic, that you've had a terrible trauma in your life. Do you think that something similar has happened to Sarah?
Luckily enough I haven't. I just had one very bad situation that, happily, was resolved rather quickly once I actually faced it.

I'd venture a guess that Sarah isn't the result of one huge trauma but is either a person forged by an overall lack of structure growing up or someone who didn't take to it.

Many well raised, happy people turn out horribly and going by her first autobiography her upbringing was alright. It might just be that she, unlike her sister, never developed into a well rounded individual and when she saw the glitz of the wealthy she placed that in her head as the key to happiness. She has never reconciled that ridiculous belief with her real life which, as has been mentioned countless times, is a helluva lot better than most peoples.

Like I said. She knows what she has but what she wants is so deeply ingrained in her psyche that she can't let go. In her mind, material wealth and luxury define her and I think she's headed down that dark road of self-realization without brakes. No one an keep the charade up forever and it would be sad for someone else to force the issue but even worse if she to only realized her folly late in life.
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  #904  
Old 07-16-2011, 11:17 AM
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Originally Posted by sliver_bic View Post
Luckily enough I haven't. I just had one very bad situation that, happily, was resolved rather quickly once I actually faced it.

I'd venture a guess that Sarah isn't the result of one huge trauma but is either a person forged by an overall lack of structure growing up or someone who didn't take to it.

Many well raised, happy people turn out horribly and going by her first autobiography her upbringing was alright. It might just be that she, unlike her sister, never developed into a well rounded individual and when she saw the glitz of the wealthy she placed that in her head as the key to happiness. She has never reconciled that ridiculous belief with her real life which, as has been mentioned countless times, is a helluva lot better than most peoples.

Like I said. She knows what she has but what she wants is so deeply ingrained in her psyche that she can't let go. In her mind, material wealth and luxury define her and I think she's headed down that dark road of self-realization without brakes. No one an keep the charade up forever and it would be sad for someone else to force the issue but even worse if she to only realized her folly late in life.
I'm very glad things worked out well for you silver_bic.

RE Sarah I'm sure alot of people would like Andrew to pack her stuff, leave them at the entrance to Royal Lodge and let her sink or swim.
I wouldn't be quiet that harsh. I'm not cheerleading for Sarah, the fact is I haven't heard of anyone cheerheading or applauding Sarah's actions over the last 24 months. I just feel any friendship/relationship that has lasted 26 years is very previous. I hope after supporting her through the past year that Sarah has a greater/new found respect and value for her family and her relationship with them. For most people if they have the love and support of a lovely family and of a few true friends, it's more than enough for them. Sarah seems to have both. I'm sure Sarah will head to her usual spot in Spain next month, lets hope she thinks very seriously and carefully about her plans for the next 18 months, because if she causes major controversy during the Queen's jubliee year, well there would be no coming back from that. I also think Sarah needs to decide once and for all what it is she really wants, independence and freedom or a life and a future with Andrew, and then really fight for it.
I hope my thoughts and comments are well balanced because I don't mean to disrespect other people's opinions.
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  #905  
Old 07-16-2011, 11:58 AM
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The thing is, Sarah has not had independence and freedom by any stretch of the imagination. She certainly hasn't been independent when she is constantly being bailed out of her monetary problems and I can't believe that she has felt any sense of freedom. She just seems to be out there floating around in the atmosphere, so to speak. I also question how many real friends she has. Most of the time when we she her out and about she is with her daughters which makes me wonder who exactly got the invitations (except for the dinners they share). My bet it was Beatrice and Eugenie and Sarah was brought along, except possibly at weddings where she is occasionally seen, but that too may have more to do with her relationship with her daughters than on her own accord.
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  #906  
Old 07-16-2011, 02:54 PM
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IMHO the time has passed for Sarah to decide what she wants to do in her life. She has few options open to her and she just has to make wise decisions with what she has.

I believe that the option of a life with Andrew has passed. I do not think, even with the passage of time, that Sarah will ever, ever be allowed to become a member of BRF again. Sadly, I believe that now remarriage to Andrew is what Sarah wants most and two years ago, it probably could have happened, but not now.

Sarah has accomplished a lot in the past year or so...she has slandered her ex-husband's reputation, nearly cost him his job, as well as, cost him a great deal of embarrassment and money. She has also embarrassed her daughters, is probably the main reason why the press is so hard on them, and is also probably the reason why they are going to become working members of the royal family. Not to mention the pain and the embarrassment that she has caused HM and the rest of the royal family.

Aside from her daughters' weddings, Sarah's chances of ever being invited or included in anything involving the BRF is IMO, NIL!
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  #907  
Old 07-16-2011, 03:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sliver_bic View Post
Luckily enough I haven't. I just had one very bad situation that, happily, was resolved rather quickly once I actually faced it.

I'd venture a guess that Sarah isn't the result of one huge trauma but is either a person forged by an overall lack of structure growing up or someone who didn't take to it.

Many well raised, happy people turn out horribly and going by her first autobiography her upbringing was alright. It might just be that she, unlike her sister, never developed into a well rounded individual and when she saw the glitz of the wealthy she placed that in her head as the key to happiness. She has never reconciled that ridiculous belief with her real life which, as has been mentioned countless times, is a helluva lot better than most peoples.

Like I said. She knows what she has but what she wants is so deeply ingrained in her psyche that she can't let go. In her mind, material wealth and luxury define her and I think she's headed down that dark road of self-realization without brakes. No one an keep the charade up forever and it would be sad for someone else to force the issue but even worse if she to only realized her folly late in life.
I also see that - that Sarah is in for a tremendous moment of awakening at some point in the future. Right now, it seems like she is deeply in denial - she's clinging like a desperate woman some long-outworn delusions about who she is and her place in the world. The Time magazine interview was startling to me. We've seen glimmers of that steely-eyed Sarah before, but I don't think I've ever before seen an interview where Sarah was so outright hostile to the interviewer. Her looks could have cut glass. It's like she had realized, even before the interview started, that this interviewer wasn't going to be sympathetic. I couldn't believe that Sarah flat-out said, "There was no suitcase of cash." Really?! Then what did we see on the video?

I've been thinking about why Sarah is doing this, and I've realized that she's clinging to money and an illusion of prestige (her royal connections) at the cost of everything, even her own dignity. And that's what makes me think that Sarah may be a narcissist, but she really does not have any self-worth. Appearing on a TV show screaming "Mom" into the desert; cutting out photos from a catalogue like a little girl, crying into cameras without makeup...her "documentary" is humiliating, self-abasing stuff. And we all know that Sarah is doing it for money. Likewise, by lying into cameras again and again ('it was for a friend, I would never do it for myself and I would never sell access to Andrew') she's making herself a laughing-stock, because people have seen the video. But she seems to think that lying is preferable to facing reality.

The point I'm trying to make is that Sarah seems willing to all but sell her soul for money and preserve the illusion that she's royal; and I don't think those are the actions of someone with a strong sense of pride in herself. They're the actions of someone who needs the sense of luxury and royalty to have an identity at all...someone who for whatever reason (something in her brain or personality) can't live beyond the moment, has no impulse control, and most of all refuses to live without certain things, and therefore is going to continue running with her eyes closed until she hits a wall. Silver_bic is right - Sarah is going to have a moment of awakening soon and it is going to be traumatic. But I have a feeling that before that moment comes, we're going to see a worse scandal (and I don't think I'm the only one to say that).
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  #908  
Old 07-16-2011, 04:01 PM
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I have transferred this discussion from the 'Current Events' thread for Sarah so that I don't get accused of taking it off topic. The discussion was started by rmay and received a helpful response from NotAPrentender, both of which I have reproduced below:


Quote:
Originally Posted by rmay286 View Post
....
Also, I'm just curious...how would Sarah's financial status change if (by some wild combination of events) she managed to remarry Andrew? How much income would she have/did she have when married to Andrew (I'm sure Diarist has answered this elsewhere, but maybe it can be answered again? )
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Originally Posted by NotAPretender View Post
I'll take a run at this.

When married to Andrew, she shared his Civil List allowance, which was increased at their marriage. Her expenses were met by the Household, her foreign travel paid for by the government sponsoring the travel, and her personal expenses met by Andrew. She spent like she was married to Charles, and she ended her marriage in multi-million pound debt.

Based on the experience of the Countess of Wessex and the recent (today!) quash on Zara Phillips's intended sale of wedding pics to "Hello," it's my considered opinion that upon any theoretical re-entry of Sarah Ferguson into the BRF would be accompanied by:

1. A complete cessation of all paid outside work: engagement and speaking fees, paid endorsements. A possible exception would be book residuals;

2. An end to any promotion of any prior books or publications;

3. A strict schedule of speaking engagements which were vetted and approved by the Palace, with no other engagements available;

4. Complete financial disclosure and reporting to appointed individuals, with no independent debt incurrence and rigid monitoring of expenditures, cash inflow and outflow, and credit sources.

I would also say that it could be likely that she would be compelled to receive regular psychiatric appointments and be required to take any relevant medications as prescribed; I would also go so far as to say that she would be subject to regular alcohol and drug screening.

In return for this, she would receive housing and all relevant household expenditures met, and in a style befitting an HRH. She would receive access to the usual accoutrements of Royalty, including such pieces of jewelry on loan or given outrights as HM the Queen/King Charles III/King William deems appropriate.

It would be a heavy price to pay but I see few if any other options for her.

Quite honestly, I think this scenario is where she will end up, but without remarriage. So she would be "taken care of" physically, financially and practically, but with neither the duties of a member of the BRF, nor the titles/styles such as HRH. Since she hungers for that so desperately, she may refuse to see the advantages of being "taken care of" otherwise.


NotAPretender is quite right on Andrew's financial situation, although I would add that at the time of his Divorce it was stated that he had an Insurance Policy and of course it is well known that he was in receipt of his salary as a Naval Officer [which became a Naval Pension.]

As well as these aforementioned assets I would speculate that Andrew MIGHT, and I stress MIGHT, have also received a bequest under the will of the late Queen Mother. Under English Law, all wills are public except for Royal Wills, and so I expect we will not be able to find out whether Andrew was indeed in receipt of just such a legacy, although I can say that [as I have previously mentioned elsewhere]the broadsheet press [as welll as the tabloids] did print articles to the effect that the late Queen Mother did leave sums of money [possibly in the forms of trusts] to benefit those of her grandchildren and great grandchildren who were not going to be in receipt of money from elsewhere [i.e. from the Duchy of Cornwall etc etc]

Actually, the fact that the Queen now takes care of Andrew's old Civil List allowance herself does in fact make things easier on a re-marriage: Under the Civil List system, recipients were principally meant to use the sums to finance their 'royal duties' and not for their personal [i.e. non royal work] expenditure; therefore a re-married Sarah who was not undertaking engagements would probably be not able to receive any of Andrew's Civil List funding - and I can advise fellow forum members that Civil List expenditure is always very strictly audited as it is Public Money [that is why reports are periodically issued on what the Monarchy 'costs' - the figures have actually been obtained from the Audit of the expenditure. As the Queen is now responsible for the payment to Andrew, since it is not public money, he could quite easily use the money to support Sarah.

I fully agree with everyting NotAPretender has speculated about the pratical effects of Sarah's return including her 'duties' although I think I would probably take the view that even speaking engagements might be forbidden - although on the face of it entirely harmless, I feel that where Sarah is concerned, the BRF might take the view that based on Sarah's past form it could be the start of the 'Slippery Slope' and so I would speculate that the BRF would want her 'seen but not heard' - in other words, turning out only for occasional Royal Family events, rather in the manner that the Duchess of Kent [for entirely different reasons] has now adopted. And by 'Royal Public Events', I think that appearances at certain weddings [i.e. those of her daughters for a start] might be permissable, and possibly for any Jubliee Commemoration Service, and possibly for Remembrance Sunday [Cenotaph Service] but certainly NOT jointly with Andrew when he carries out engagements and certainly NO carriage appearances at Royal Ascot etc.

I am now going to risk making myself very unpopular indeed, but based on what I have seen recently reported here about 'Finding Sarah', i.e. the series and the book, I am afraid to say that I have come to the conclusion that Sarah is quite manipulative. Whilst this is purely speculation on my part, I honestly feel that she is exhibiting a form of 'cupboard love' for Andrew - this is a man who previously she had no difficulty in rejecting during her adulterous liaisons, but who she now professes love for now that her options [commercial, financial and for that matter romantic] seem to be rather limited.

Taking her Romantic prospects, I remember that in the late 1990's, Sarah was dating the wealthy Italian aristocrat Count Gaddo della Gherardesca. The couple was reported to be very close and had been dated for some time but the relationship could not end in re-marriage until the Count - who was sepaated from his wife, obtained a divorce. He showed no desire to hurry things along....which meant I suppose that he showed no real inclination for putting his relationship with Sarah on a formal footing. And as she was around 40 at the time, she had youth on her side in a way that she does not now - plus of course, she had racked up the last 10 years or so of additional scandal. More recently, Sarah was dating the Norwegian frozen food empire businessman Geir Frantzen, but he seemed to have got cold feet [pun unintentional!!] so I really do feel Sarah's romantic options are limited.

In view of what I have said above, I had better add my usual disclaimer that I don't mean to offend and these are just my views.........

I might, however, have more to report tomorrow. It is the Final of the Cowdray Park Gold Cup for the British Open Polo Championship. This is held at the Polo Grounds owned by Lord Cowdray, the former Ibiza-based 'hedonist' the Hon. Michael Pearson, who was an aquaintance of Sarah from her Paddy McNally days [she used to holiday in Ibiza.] Beatrice and Eugenie and Sarah have all turned up over the years at previous 'Gold Cup Finals', either for Trophy Presentation duties and/or to lunch with the Sponsors Veuve Cliquot Champagne and / or to dance the night away at the celebrations that follow. Your humble Diarist will go with her eyes open and her camera in her handbag so that she is able to report back!!

Alex
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  #909  
Old 07-16-2011, 04:37 PM
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Does anyone else remember that the Queen Mother got into some debt herself while remodeling her castle, and that Queen Elizabeth had to buy down her debts (paid them off at a discounted rate, similar to a bankruptcy). Am I wrong? I may be misremembering.
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  #910  
Old 07-16-2011, 05:01 PM
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yes, she died 7 million pounds in debt.
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  #911  
Old 07-16-2011, 05:06 PM
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Please could I help with a little background information about the QM? She lived like an Edwardian and spent in the way that Edwardians used to; whilst she was [like some other members of the BRF] short of income, i.e. actual liquid cash, unlike Sarah, the QM was never in danger of bankruptcy because she had enormous capital resources [paintings, objets d'art, antiques etc that were her personal property, even valuable racehorses](as distinct from her 'Royal' {'state'} property)].........

Hope this helps,

Alex
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  #912  
Old 07-16-2011, 07:09 PM
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Have fun tomorrow (today?) Alex!

"Cupboard love" is a very polite way of saying what the incomparable Cole Porter codified in his tune "Love For Sale." As taken to its conclusion.
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  #913  
Old 07-16-2011, 09:24 PM
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I get the impression Sarah thinks if she says she wants to remarry Andrew enough it may happen. It won't because it isn't just Prince Phillip who doesn't want her around. Looks like Charles and William don't either and they are the ones who would have to deal with her. What would stop her from doing what she did before? I also don't see her not going on public duties with Andrew she likes to be seen just not too many. Sarah said she hadn't dated in 8 years not sure how much truth their is in that. But marrying a wealthy man doesn't seem like an option. Sarah just doesn't have the looks for a trophy wife and her spending habits are very well documented. Andrew is already supporting her it seems but I think she wants the title because one day the people referring to her as Duchess will work out she really isn't and hasn't been for some time. Not sure what she can do, her charities seem to end in debt and with her image at an all time low she can't advise people on anything as she is so screwed up. I do believe she is going to do something else unless the Palace tell her to lay low all next year and not do or say anything. Which she won't do if she needs money! I would be surprised if she even has any of Oprahs cash left she still had some debts to pay didn't she?
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  #914  
Old 07-16-2011, 10:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Meadow View Post
I do believe she is going to do something else unless the Palace tell her to lay low all next year and not do or say anything. Which she won't do if she needs money!
I think Sarah is going to 'do something else' too...I'm just trying to think what it might be. I think it will be something like a 'cry for help' - some way of getting the royal family's attention by 'proving' that she can't survive on her own in the big cruel world outside the palace.

I never did see a 51 year-old woman so anxious to be rescued. Sarah is obviously realizing that her money-making options have dried up, and she's now hoping to be welcomed back into the 'safe' royal fold...but that can't happen. But she won't keep quiet until something happens. As the saying goes, the squeaky wheel gets the oil. The next year or two will be interesting...
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  #915  
Old 07-17-2011, 01:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rmay286 View Post
I never did see a 51 year-old woman so anxious to be rescued. ...
BINGO! You hit the nail on the head IMO.

I must admit I'm quite actually salivating to see what Diarist has come upon next!
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  #916  
Old 07-17-2011, 01:21 AM
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When Sarah was with the Italian Count, didn't she buy some land in Italy? If true, why doesn't she sell it, that would bring in additional money and why doesn't she sell the ranch in Argentina? I don't know how often she visits now and at one time she stated that she wanted to keep the ranch for her daughters. I doubt Beatrice and Eugenie will want to have that much to do with it unless one of them marries and moves to Argentina.
When one has a loved one die, sometimes it's hard to give up their possessions because of sentimentality, but if the possessions become a burden or a person really isn't going make use of them, then it's time to let them go.
Sarah has needed money, it's time for her to sell her mother's ranch, since it's in Argentina, perhaps Maxima would be interested in another vacation home.
I can understand that it's difficult. We just sold my late Mother's house and it was hard, I didn't want to do it, but it had to be done.
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  #917  
Old 07-17-2011, 04:02 AM
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If she has land and her mothers ranch to sell why would she stoop so low to sell access to Andrew? Maybe she has already sold it? I would think for her it wouldn't be too much of a problem it isn't a place she grew up and she rarely goes there these days. Also she keeps saying she is homeless without Andrew so is she has a place to live she really isn't. The cost of keeping it unless she is renting it is just silly for someone with such financial problems. I wouldn't be surprised if it's already gone! I'm not sure what she could do to get the families attention it wouldn't matter anyway. She has done her dash and there is no way back now. I do agree I think now she is regretting what she gave up because of the security. She also may have on rose coloured glasses and am thinking things were better because of what her life is like now! I seem to see a desperation in her which may mean she has had a talking too and that any further debt won't get covered. Most people would stop the spending but Sarah seems to feel she has a right to live the high life. I really think she believes she is royal and she has to live an expensive lifestyle to fulfill that role. Whereas if she lived in a little house and showed some real contrition and did things to earn respect she could be just as happy and people wouldn't take aim at her all the time. Not that I think Sarah will do that. She has further to fall before she hits the wall and the bang is going to be a big one! Eventually either Andrew or the girls are going to step up and give her a reality check especially if she continues to spend and rely on them for her finances!
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  #918  
Old 07-17-2011, 12:02 PM
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How can you know whether she "has further to fall" ?
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  #919  
Old 07-17-2011, 01:04 PM
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If she really still has a place in Argentina, maybe she could do everyone a favour and just go there and live in obscurity so we wouldnt have to hear from her any more.
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  #920  
Old 07-17-2011, 01:09 PM
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How is Sarahs latest book selling? I have seen it in the stores but refused to pick it up. If I ever do it will be when it is in the $1.99 remainder bin.
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