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  #881  
Old 07-15-2011, 02:09 PM
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So far it seems that a lot of that stuff is on other people's dime so it won't be an immediate drop but it won't surprise me if it happens fairly quickly. The key is how much she's going to get out of this whole "Finding Sarah" thing. She's been doing interviews but there's nothing big on the horizon as of yet and I kinda doubt that there will be.
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  #882  
Old 07-15-2011, 02:31 PM
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I think Sarah lives on her perceived income in the future which is most probably not realistic. Honestly, I think most people are really getting tired of seeing her face. There are enough people in financial peril NOT of their own making in the current financial state of the world, so I don't see much sympathy for her and or even curiosity about her at this point in time. IOW, she's worn out her welcome.
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Old 07-15-2011, 03:15 PM
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Re the above-mentioned Vanity Fair article, could I try to help a little with some background infomration, please?

The VF article is a little bizarre, as alonsige some accuarate information, it does include some inaccuracies along with some half-truths and suppositions!

Apart from referring to Sarah as 'The Duchess of York', it is totally incorrect to promulgate the myth that Sarah received nothing by way of a divorce settlement. I set out in detail the fact that Sarah did in fact receive a very generous settlement [see other thread].

The article also states that Andrew took one 'Goga Ashkenazi' to the Queen's box [They mean the 'Royal Box' actually, as that is what it is ALWAYS called at Royal Ascot; a person is the 'Queen's guest', but in 'The Royal Box']. Certainly the tabloids identified the lady as 'Goga Ashkenazi', but I had the honour of being in the Royal Enclosure every day at Royal Ascot last month; everyone in the Royal Enclosure has to wear a name badge and I [and everyone else in the Royal Enclosure who cared to look] was able to read the name badge of Andrew's escort - it said 'Miss Judith Hess'.

I expect that the article is correct in stating the Queen help pay off some of Sarah's creditors this time round. At the time of Andrew's divorce from Sarah, his assets were [by the standards of his brother Prince Charles] relatively modest - His Civil List [now met by the Queen], his Naval pay/pension and an insurance policy. Since that assessment of his means, he may have received a legacy from the Queen Mother - but this is purely speculation, as Royal wills are kept secret; there has however been speculation that the QM in her well left bequests to those of her grandchildren/greatgrandchildren who were not already in possession of substantial capital resources or likely to aquire them; thus Prince Andrew, Edward and the Princess Royal Anne together with Prince Harry [but not Prince William] and Princesses Beatrice and Eugenie have all been mentioned as possible beneficiaries - although of course I do not know whether this is true and indeed have no way of verifying whether this is true. However, even if this speculation is correct, since much of the QM's wealth was in art and jewellery etc I would suspect that any liquid capital that Andrew received would still be insufficient to make payments to Sarah's [many] creditors.

I do wish journalists would stop describing Andrew as the Queen's favourite; the VF article is I am sure correct when it says that the Queen was 'closer to Andrew because by the time he was born, she was [I am paraphrasing] more able to be a physically closer mother because she had in effect got more used to combine family life with royal duties. But it, in my humble opinion, is NOT correct to say that Andrew is her favourite; she is close to Edward as well - the respectable broadsheets describe how HM often drops in on the Sophie and Edward and the Wessex family was with the Queen at the Royal Windsor Horse Show this year. I know this because I was there too and saw the family with the Queen. And yes, the Queen did invest Andrew with the GVCO [which actually I think was ill advised] but I don't think that this is necessarily indicative that Andrew is her favourite son because then HM used exactly the same device [i.e. showing support to beleagured members of her family] when the tabloids were having a field day commenting on the apparent failure of [the then] Princess Anne's marriage to Mark Philips and Anne's alleged closeness to her mother's Equerry: the Queen was moved to create Anne Princess Royal, which also served to distance the 'Mrs Mark Phillips' part of Anne's style and which proved to be quite useful when she and Mark Phillips were eventually divorced.

Only my thoughts, and not meant to offend,

Alex
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  #884  
Old 07-15-2011, 03:24 PM
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Originally Posted by sliver_bic View Post
So far it seems that a lot of that stuff is on other people's dime so it won't be an immediate drop but it won't surprise me if it happens fairly quickly. The key is how much she's going to get out of this whole "Finding Sarah" thing. She's been doing interviews but there's nothing big on the horizon as of yet and I kinda doubt that there will be.

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Originally Posted by Princess of Durham View Post
I think Sarah lives on her perceived income in the future which is most probably not realistic. Honestly, I think most people are really getting tired of seeing her face. There are enough people in financial peril NOT of their own making in the current financial state of the world, so I don't see much sympathy for her and or even curiosity about her at this point in time. IOW, she's worn out her welcome.

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Originally Posted by kakieanne View Post
Does anyone think that Sarah is not going to run into huge debt again? She is still maintaining her very expensive lifetyle and continuing with her spending habits. I know she has earned money from the Oprah series and from her book...but the way that she is spending, it won't take very long at all to go through it. Five star trips to the jungle, designer dresses and handbags and the most expensive restaurants in town all cost money.

I just can't see (maybe someone else can) how she is going to earn the money to pay for the very expensive lifestyle that she is quite obviously not going to change.

I agree:

I've been saying that IMHO Sarah is going to get into debt again ever since fellow forum members revealed here that she was only (!) getting either £200,000 or perhaps as little as $200,000 from Oprah. Whilst this would be a hugely life-changing sum for your humble Diarist [ for want a better descripton (I hate snobbtery and believe everyone, whatever their standard of birth is a valuable and equal human being], I live a vaguely upper middle class lifestyle and am very grateful for my many blessings, both family and monetary] as it would be of enormous help with our mortgage and other outgoings etc, for Sarah I am afraid it is chicken-feed. Moreover, I am afraid that what she has revealed to Oprah [that she has no understanding of financial matters, that she suffers from an addiction (albeit an 'addiction to approval') can only serve to weaken 'brand Sarah' - how can she possibly now present herself as a savvy business-person or inspiring motivational speaker etc? I think that she has very simply shot her future earnings capacity 'in the foot' as it were.
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  #885  
Old 07-15-2011, 03:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Diarist View Post
And yes, the Queen did invest Andrew with the GVCO [which actually I think was ill advised] but I don't think that this is necessarily indicative that Andrew is her favourite son
She invested Edward in the same year, just two months later, so it would have looked really bad if she didn't invest Andrew before doing that for Edward. I don't think she really had a choice there if she didn't want to make a statement against Andrew or let Edward wait only due to Andrew's behaviour. I have the feeling the queen is at the moment arranging her "house" and gives out the honours to her family which she thinks they deserve (including her own rank as head of the Navy which she gave to Philip) and thus had to do something for Andrew as well. Just my impression, but for any 85 yo it's about time to arrange the things you want to see done before your final curtain. Even if you live to see 100 years or more.
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  #886  
Old 07-15-2011, 03:33 PM
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She invested Edward in the same year, just two months later, so it would have looked really bad if she didn't invest Andrew before doing that for Edward. I don't think she really had a choice there if she didn't want to make a statement against Andrew or let Edward wait only due to Andrew's behaviour. I have the feeling the queen is at the moment arranging her "house" and gives out the honours to her family which she thinks they deserve (including her own rank as head of the Navy which she gave to Philip) and thus had to do something for Andrew as well. Just my impression, but for any 85 yo it's about time to arrange the things you want to see done before your final curtain. Even if you live to see 100 years or more.

Exactly: I don't think that the fact that Andrew was invested with the GCVO was indicative of the fact that Andrew is supposedly the Queen's favourite. Although I do think the timing was a bit skewed bearing in mind that Andrew was in' a spot of bother': I think myself that it would have been better if there had been a delay in investing both Andrew and Edward.
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  #887  
Old 07-15-2011, 03:52 PM
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Originally Posted by sliver_bic View Post
My issue with that is that old school would also demand respect and Sarah has never shown it. It's one thing to stand by her son through thick and thin it's completely different to do it for your former daughter in law. Unfortunately, if said son comes begging, does the Queen have it in her to say no?

I don't know, but I think in general there are plenty of people who have no problem saying 'no' to their adult children if they're asking for something unreasonable. But I also think a lot of those people would change their answer if they thought that saying 'no' would cause harm to their grandchildren.

The Queen and the D of E most likely have a clear enough view of Sarah's character by now to realize that Sarah, for all her dramatic proclamations, is not going to take full responsibility for her financial situation. I could see Sarah becoming a financial and emotional albatross to her daughters if no one were to step in and rescue her and I can see that being something their grandparents would like to save them from, at least for a little while.
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  #888  
Old 07-15-2011, 04:37 PM
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Originally Posted by kakieanne View Post
Does anyone think that Sarah is not going to run into huge debt again? She is still maintaining her very expensive lifetyle and continuing with her spending habits. I know she has earned money from the Oprah series and from her book...but the way that she is spending, it won't take very long at all to go through it. Five star trips to the jungle, designer dresses and handbags and the most expensive restaurants in town all cost money.

I just can't see (maybe someone else can) how she is going to earn the money to pay for the very expensive lifestyle that she is quite obviously not going to change.
There is something about Sarah's situation that reminds me of the economic situation in the United States. America suffered from the GFC, but kept running up debts. Now it's reaching its debt limit. If Sarah keeps spending as though she has all the money in the world, she'll also have her own day of reckoning eventually.

I cringe to think of it, but I think within the next year or two, when Sarah is totally lost and desperate, she'll end up doing something that will make the cash for access sting pale in comparison. Just my feeling. I am disgusted by Sarah's current behaviour, but I also feel sorry for her, because I think she's in denial and defensive because deep down, she knows she's in serious trouble. But instead of dealing with her problems, she's running from them (running straight into a worse mess, but for some reason she can't or won't see that).
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  #889  
Old 07-15-2011, 05:11 PM
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Unless Sarah's brought down to earth with a thud (e.g. bankruptcy?), I can see her in an old folks' home 40 years from now, ordering from catalogs and the internet.


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Does anyone think that Sarah is not going to run into huge debt again?
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  #890  
Old 07-15-2011, 05:22 PM
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I think that she'll become more of a pariah and perhaps not get the invites to glamorous occasions and locations that she gets now. While it's becoming more clear what kind of person she is and if this pattern continues, I wonder whether her high-flying friends will still want her around. She could end up a very lonely and broken woman in the years to come. I don't want that for her.


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I cringe to think of it, but I think within the next year or two, when Sarah is totally lost and desperate, she'll end up doing something that will make the cash for access sting pale in comparison.
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  #891  
Old 07-15-2011, 05:49 PM
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This is speculation on my part, but I feel that people still invite Sarah etc because they either perceive her still to be 'Royal', not understanding that following the divorce she lost her membership of the royal family and with it her precedence, or because even if they realise that she is no longer 'Royal' they still perceive her to be on the basis that she is effectively still 'close' to the 'centre of Royal Power' [which is de facto true, because she is and will always be the mother of the two Princesses whatever she does and is also unquestionably still living in a royal residence [Royal Lodge] even if her relationship with Andrew is perhaps a little more uncertain [compare how Sarah always tells us how close she and Andrew still are, that he is her 'bestest friend' [ugh, how ungrammatical!] whereas Andrew mostly seems to be refaining from commenting on these asertions....]

I do truly wonder how many actual 'friends' Sarah has in her own right? Richard Branson seems close to her, but that may also be smoothed by the relationship between Beatrice and his employee Dave Clarke; Paddy McNally seems to be come up with a free skiing holiday in his chalet each year - when she visits with the Princesses and usually Andrew [all genuinely 'royal']......

If the Queen has to settle Sarah's debts again, although she can't easily remove Sarah's right to style herself Sarah, Duchess of York [I say 'easily', because I suppose that legally it is theoreticaly possible for the Queen to implement the passing of such a law] she could much more easily both require Sarah to sign the sort of confidentiallity agreement that Diana was required to on her divorce and also require Sarah to give an undertaking to refrain from using the style of Sarah, Duchess of York and also to avoid all future mention of her (former ) Royal life in consideration of Her Majesty settling Sarah's debts: such a measure could easily be the subject of a formal legal agreement. That would in itself presumably make it less possible for Sarah to 'flaunt' [not quite the word, but you no doubt see what I mean] her '(alleged) royal status'....

People are no longer banished from Court any more [no 'Courts' exist to be banished from any more since the 1950's!!!] but effective Royal freezing out is still possible - the word in my circles was that the Steve Wyatt affair quickly fizzled out when it was (apparently) made clear to Lyn Wyatt, the Texan 'Society Dame'] that her social passage in London and future contact with the Royals when they came to the US would be far from smooth if she did not intervene and get her son back 'under control'... could some similar 'social sanctions' be implemented against Sarah - it sounds cruel, but it could protect both the monarchy and even Sarah, to the extent that it would remove all the 'false friends and fake fawners'.

The Queen historically seems to 'do nothing', i.e. take a line of 'least resistance' [unlike, say, the Duke of Edinburgh] but I still see 2012 looming up - plans are advancing about how to celebrate the Diamond Jubilee - I do wonder what will happen if Sarah's continuing 'antics' threaten to divert people's attentions from the Diamond Jubilee Celebrations? Perhaps, therefore, the Queen's Advisors might think that decisive action has to be taken on the 'Sarah Problem' rather than just let things coast.....

Just my thoughts,

Alex
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  #892  
Old 07-15-2011, 06:00 PM
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I'm wondering if there is a true, up to date, accounting of what Sarah really owes. Bills can be paid but if they are also constantly accumulating at the same time .... ???
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  #893  
Old 07-15-2011, 06:15 PM
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That's a very valid point PofD. Sarah is certainly 'out and about' at the moment, but I don't know whether this is being financed by her publisher, Oprah etc etc. As a general rule, unless you are an author of significant standing [which generally means 'immensely bankable', with publishers all begging to take you on rather than vice versa] most promotion trips etc etc are financed by publishers but then 'clawed back' from booksales etc. If Sarah's tome does not turn out to be a rip-roaring best-seller, there may not be much forthcoming in the way of hard $ from the proceeds of her book [at least you don't have to pay back any losses of the publishers as I understand this......................]

Is the book to be published in the UK I wonder? To date, there have only been some scathing articles about it over here.

I'n quite sure that Sarah is about to 'pop up' on a luxurious holiday quite soon - perhaps this will be courtesy of friends etc........................but there again, that has been how she holidayed in the past, and she certainly ran up debts then.............

Not sure who is paying for her new clothes, designer bags etc? Sarah? [I suspect that the powers-that-be are keeping a more vigilant eye on the Princess's trust funds now!!!!].

In other words, although I cannot prove anything I just feel that Sarah is still spending, even though I can't put a finger on why I feel this way......

Just my thoughts

Alex
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  #894  
Old 07-15-2011, 07:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diarist View Post
The Queen historically seems to 'do nothing', i.e. take a line of 'least resistance' [unlike, say, the Duke of Edinburgh] but I still see 2012 looming up - plans are advancing about how to celebrate the Diamond Jubilee - I do wonder what will happen if Sarah's continuing 'antics' threaten to divert people's attentions from the Diamond Jubilee Celebrations? Perhaps, therefore, the Queen's Advisors might think that decisive action has to be taken on the 'Sarah Problem' rather than just let things coast.....

Just my thoughts,

Alex
It's obvious that she'll be running her mouth again like the wedding. Wouldn't surprise me if Oprah kept in touch knowing that such a monumental anniversary will get attention across the globe and having her very own "royal" in the stable makes for good tv.

Off topic: Diarist, have you ever thought of writing a book? Your encyclopedic knowledge of the subject would be a hell of a better read than most of the royal stuff out there. You remind me of Tim Vickery's knowledge of South American football, just give you a topic and sit back.
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  #895  
Old 07-15-2011, 08:30 PM
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Rather than take the 'Current Affairs thread' OT, I thought that I would post a bit of background information here in order to develop something that AristoCat said:

The world of professional polo is a jet-set one; Polo teams are divided into various levels, with the best known as 'High Goal', who are financed by enormously wealthy 'Patrons' as they are known. These Patrons are usually very, very wealthy businessmen....

It is a world of private planes ...

...most extraordinarary luxury.

Sarah Fergusson was known as 'Fergie', and very unkindly, also known as 'Fat Fergie'. And she stuck out like a sore thumb.... What was Sarah doing there, then? The answer was of course that she was always with her father, Major Ron,.....

....McNally did provide her with a taste of the glitzy jet-set lifestyle, as he used to control the advertising at Grands Prix and used to travel every fortnight to these glamorous venues. .......The main problem though was that I think that he introduced Sarah to a world of Jet-Set living to which she wanted to aspire, but would never be able to achieve through marriage to a Royal. Or probably marriage to anyone from the Jet Set, who tended to prefer beautiful, thin women however cruel this may sound.

Alex
Alex, I snipped a lot of this but found it fascinating. More than anything, it makes me sad. It seems that Sarah wanted "in" all her life.

Yet when she achieved the ultimate "in," - marriage into the BRF - she did virtually everything in her power to get herself "out;" having multiple affairs, behaving badly in other ways, right up to and including bold declarations of her intent to get out, "the Grey Men won't win" kind of statements.

Twenty five years of wanting "in," getting in, and a scant five years (1986-1991) of being in. Then five more years of getting out. And for the past fourteen years.....banging at the door to be let back in, giving lots of lip service to her adoration of HM in an attempt to curry favor, lavishing adulation on the man who she scorned to remain faithful to, so as to play dog in the manger.

She wanted "it," she got it. She got in. She got herself out. Now she wants back in.

Sad. Self-inflicted, of course. But sad.
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Old 07-15-2011, 08:39 PM
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The same way that the loved ones of an alcoholic/drug addict/adulterer/compulsive buyer can "feel" things: in the absence of contrary evidence, one can assume that the person is continuing to act as he/she always has. Sarah has shown an ingrained pattern of spending and seeking the high life for decades. Unless we see her "slumming it" over a period of time, we'll assume that she's still living the life of a "total aristocrat".


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In other words, although I cannot prove anything I just feel that Sarah is still spending, even though I can't put a finger on why I feel this way......
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Old 07-15-2011, 08:43 PM
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Sounds like one of my cats. But cats do this by instinct. They have a natural need to check the spots they've marked. With Sarah, I think it's because she's an unsettled soul. She's not found something to really satisfy her.

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She wanted "it," she got it. She got in. She got herself out. Now she wants back in.
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  #898  
Old 07-15-2011, 09:57 PM
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While Sarah has her fans to think of, it would suit her to keep a very, very low profile (as in not acting like a damaged celebrity). She should almost let people think she has disappeared and I do not mean this in a nasty way, but a way that those who care about her can see that she is not craving publicity 24/7. That means no cameras, no reality show about getting her life on track, and no big drama around anything she does. She ought to shape up and be more dignified for a woman of her age, with all due respect.
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  #899  
Old 07-15-2011, 10:08 PM
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The problem for Oprah is that after Finding Sarah people are going to expect a change. So far no one has seen any, still living with her ex, still first class vacations, designer clothes and going to various events. I hadn't thought of it before but as someone else pointed out some of things have usually been paid for by her rich friends yet she still is able to get into massive debt. Makes you wonder what she spends it on. I would think the press are keeping an eye on her and soon enough we will get some sort of story on her mad spending once again. It isn't going to look good for Oprah that she put all this money in and once again Sarah stuff's it up. I think the Queen may off put her foot down or else why would she do the selling of Andrew? She needed the cash so clearly she couldn't get any. I think it is why she hangs on to Andrew it isn't so much love of him but of what he continues to do for her. If things changed I wonder if she would be so fawning over him. Andrew is said to have expensive tastes too. I hope they have kept a close eye on the girls trusts or else they won't have anything and with no role in the BRF which both Sarah and Andrew pushed for they will both need very well paying jobs if they want to continue to live the high life. Freebies only go so far and nothing is ever truly free! I do see Sarah causing problems again maybe she will lease herself out as a royal expert next year. I am surprised the british press haven't picked up on her continued use of the title of Duchess and not clearing it up when she is called it in interviews.
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Old 07-15-2011, 10:16 PM
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Sounds like one of my cats. But cats do this by instinct. They have a natural need to check the spots they've marked. With Sarah, I think it's because she's an unsettled soul. She's not found something to really satisfy her.
She knows what will satisfy her. Unfortunately it's not something that's possible for her but she won't let go and will use any means to touch that star called the high life. She's so addicted to that world that she doesn't see how good her life is. Selfish and sad all at once.

Despite this, Sarah understands. Her reaction during the ten questions with Time shows that she understands. Some people are ignorant of how their behavior affects their life but Sarah knows. She wouldn't react so angrily if she didn't.

I know this comng from a family of hard headed individuals, I've seen this. I've done this. Build a wall to not face the truth. Build it high and thick and choose to defend it till your dying breath. The thing is, eventually, the truth finds a crack and when it does the break will be EPIC.

My 21 year old sister is going through daddy issues at the moment and I just tell my mother to wait because sis will break and have herself one hell of a cry and then open up. Sarah unfortunately might not hit that point till it's too late.

Different people regret at different ages, if you're lucky you'll do so early or not at all, Sarah is so far advanced that I feel that the breaking of her emotional wall might honestly destroy her.

I felt that pain once while under the influence of something I won't mention by name Try to imagine the worst possible thoughts running through your head at high speed. The ones you avoided forever because you simply couldn't deal. Imagine trying to push them away only to find that your mind has lost the ability to protect itself, that that section is literally broken and that you can clearly feel your inability to protect yourself as the world comes crashing down. Imagine crying and mumbling the same sentence over and over on a couch in a college dormitory's game room at 2 in the morning.

I was 22. Only five years ago. I survived but hurt and nearly lost the person I love most in this world. Now imagine being a 50 year old who has wasted what should've been the most productive years of her life chasing after the glittering world of the wealthy. Imagine waking up one day and realizing that you've been luckier than one person should be. That you have a wonderful ex and two great daughters who have suffered for you by standing by your side. Imagine how Sarah might react when her selfishness finally turns and stares her in the eye.

Her family's public protection seems pathetic in it's seemingly never ending acceptance of her behavior but hopefully it's just the public face. Hopefully the girls are trying to make her understand how ridiculous she seems, how she's doing herself no favors. How, as they grow older, they can't be expected to pick her up every time she falls.

IF this is going on, the emotional break will be hard but not destructive because the family would've been there, prepared for her to pop. But if what we see in public is real, if Andrew Beatrice and Eugenie are truly blind to Sarah's faults, then Sarah might end up finally cracking and committing a truly unforgivable act in her desperation.

Or worse.
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