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  #801  
Old 07-05-2011, 12:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Bella View Post
She is not working with the media, she is being exploited by the media. Big difference. And she is allowing it because she is the Victim, after all.

If she played her cards right, she could get a gig as a correspondent or even hone her writing skills and land something in the print press.
Maybe she *is* 'playing her cards right'. This woman is being slammed to the ground by 'public opinion' - what must the experience be to someone's soul on the psychic level? Few of us know such an experience except 'locally' - in 'small' ways in our lives with family and co-workers. What must it be like at the intensity that she is experiencing? Her 'fault' or not?

I think Sarah is doing all right. She may not have friends in the UK but she for sure has them in the US. By the most unlooked for happen-chances I saw the first episode of 'Finding Sarah' last night - and I would have to say that one must see it before one makes a judgment.

'Finding Sarah' is powerful stuff. I have made a note in my calendar to try to catch all of the episodes. This is not fluffy. I think what we have here is a significant cultural divide. Sarah is very courageous to have done this - it will be interesting to see how it turns out for her.
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  #802  
Old 07-05-2011, 01:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Tyger View Post
Maybe she *is* 'playing her cards right'. This woman is being slammed to the ground by 'public opinion' - what must the experience be to someone's soul on the psychic level? Few of us know such an experience except 'locally' - in 'small' ways in our lives with family and co-workers. What must it be like at the intensity that she is experiencing? Her 'fault' or not?

I think Sarah is doing all right. She may not have friends in the UK but she for sure has them in the US. By the most unlooked for happen-chances I saw the first episode of 'Finding Sarah' last night - and I would have to say that one must see it before one makes a judgment.

'Finding Sarah' is powerful stuff. I have made a note in my calendar to try to catch all of the episodes. This is not fluffy. I think what we have here is a significant cultural divide. Sarah is very courageous to have done this - it will be interesting to see how it turns out for her.
After watching the first three episodes, I don't get the "really powerful stuff" from it at all. Perhaps its the clips from the sessions shown and a little bit here and little bit there and Sarah basically looking blank faced and seeming to say "tell me how I should think.. tell me how I should feel" as if she's looking on the outside for answers. As I think one poster put it, there's got to be a light bulb moment ahead. There is a bit of some in future episodes but I'll not ruin it for you.

Even if this series is perhaps the worse thing ever that Sarah could do, good or bad, whatever the outcome of it is a step ahead for Sarah. It could be the two steps backwards to make one forward. Kind of like the adage of "Never pity the wino on the doorstop. He's exactly where he needs to be right now."
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  #803  
Old 07-05-2011, 01:34 AM
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Originally Posted by NotHRH View Post
I am glad there are people who do not wish ill for the Duchess of York. The animosity toward Sarah expressed in this thread, is only misplaced anger. I do not hate anybody, especially a person I do not know.

Not to iluvbertie

When did Harry and his future wife enter this picture? There can only be one Duke of York at a time. Harry cannot receive the title unless Andrew dies before Harry, and his father or brother will have to confer the title on him. What is the connection between Sarah, Harry, and a possible future wife for Harry - and why would she have to work extra hard? Did I miss a key part of the saga? Or lost my mind?

My question about Harry's wife was directed at Aristocat who said
Quote:
She's destroying the prestige of an ancient title stretching back centuries and ruining it for any woman that Harry in the future marries. Harry's wife will have to work like a fiend to avoid being seen as similar to Fergie and Harry's wife will also have to work hard at restoring the prestige that Fergie has merrily wrecked. She's taken a wrecking ball to the title and I cannot imagine how much more damage she is going to do to it.
I didn't get the reference to Harry's future wife here so was asking for an explanation.
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  #804  
Old 07-05-2011, 01:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
After watching the first three episodes, I don't get the "really powerful stuff" from it at all.
What did I see then? The 3rd episode? I also came in about half way through, I think. I thought it was the 1st because she seemed to be getting acquainted with Dr Phil - and she was meeting Suzie Ormond for the first time in her home in England. It seemed to be at the beginning of things - but maybe not? Was that the 1st or the 3rd? Much obliged for clarity....
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  #805  
Old 07-05-2011, 01:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Tyger View Post
What did I see then? The 3rd episode? I also came in about half way through, I think. I thought it was the 1st because she seemed to be getting acquainted with Dr Phil - and she was meeting Suzie Ormond for the first time in her England home. Was that the 1st or the 3rd? Much obliged for clarity....
I've seen all three episodes aired so far. The one where she first meets Phil and Suze is the first one (My Fall From Grace). The first episode got me distracted for a bit as I loved looking at Royal Lodge. For me, the first episode was too little actual "work" and too much of a tour and talking about external things such as the bench, showing the dogs, where Sarah's apartment was in BP etc.

The second episode is Sarah's return to NYC (Braving The Big City) while the third (Soul Searching In The Desert) goes into exercises that Sarah does to learn more about herself. The third one for me was the best one so far as it focused on Sarah and nothing external so much.

This week is catchup week. The schedule for rebroadcasting all three episodes is here:
Finding Sarah: From Royalty to the Real World TV Listings

With Canada Day and the 4th of July happening and its prime vacation times, I imagine that's the reason for the week off.
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  #806  
Old 07-05-2011, 11:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
I've seen all three episodes aired so far. The one where she first meets Phil and Suze is the first one (My Fall From Grace). The first episode got me distracted for a bit as I loved looking at Royal Lodge. For me, the first episode was too little actual "work" and too much of a tour and talking about external things such as the bench, showing the dogs, where Sarah's apartment was in BP etc.

The second episode is Sarah's return to NYC (Braving The Big City) while the third (Soul Searching In The Desert) goes into exercises that Sarah does to learn more about herself. The third one for me was the best one so far as it focused on Sarah and nothing external so much.

This week is catchup week. The schedule for rebroadcasting all three episodes is here:
Finding Sarah: From Royalty to the Real World TV Listings

With Canada Day and the 4th of July happening and its prime vacation times, I imagine that's the reason for the week off.
Thank you for this. Especially the re-broadcasts. One tiny question more - when it says 3:00 p.m. is that West Coast time?

What I did see was the bit with Dr Phil talking with Sarah about her upbringing and her mother. I found that 'powerful stuff'. (I didn't think in that moment - when she relates the circumstances of her mother's death - that Dr Phil acknowledged the very British stiff-upper-lip cultural bias of Sarah - instead he gave a value judgement which puzzled me). Also when Suze Ormond is talking to Sarah about having a crush on herself - that was cute - but that's where I saw the cultural divide - they are talking to entrenched cultural modes of being. As Sarah said one doesn't 'celebrate' oneself in that way in Britain. Sarah is caught in this crucible - and its a delicate area - I felt that Dr Phil was a bit held back because of that cultural difference - but at the same time wasn't acknowledging them - as though there is a one-size-fits all answer to all psychological issues - I realize that's a big question.

I had my 'Dr Phil fascination' some years back. Don't watch him anymore. Still respect him - he's very serious about what he does. I know he feels that what he does is a form of service - he is taking one person who is willing to talk openly and using them to educate others. With Sarah her BRF connection makes her a higher profile person for him to work with but I absolutely trust the man's integrity - yet I kept seeing Sarah coming up against a different cultural boundary than the one she was raised in and inhabits. Are Dr Phil and Suze cognizant of that - respectful of that?

Anyway, I think its a fascinating foray. No matter what one thinks of the participants, I do believe that Oprah would never allow anyone to be 'exploited' and certainly not damaged on her watch. There's integrity there. That goes for Dr Phil (and Suze), too. People may disagree with the process, the documentary style, the filming, the sharing of intimacies, etc., but Sarah has put herself in probably the best hands for such an enterprise.
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  #807  
Old 07-05-2011, 01:07 PM
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I didn't get the reference to Harry's future wife here so was asking for an explanation.[/QUOTE]


You are not alone in asking that question I wondering how Harry comes into play in this. Was it announced somewhere that since Prince Andrew does not have a son the Prince Harry would be the Duke of York afte Andrew?
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  #808  
Old 07-05-2011, 01:14 PM
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I believe the inference is that Sarah is doing damage to the title of Duchess of York thru her actions. This in turn will impact Harry's wife, assuming that 1) Andrew will die at which 2) Harry will become Duke of York and 3) he will marry and his wife will 4) become the HRH The Duchess of York as a result of Sarah's past actions will not be respected because of the previous titleholder.

I believe that's it.
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  #809  
Old 07-05-2011, 01:37 PM
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Originally Posted by HRH Princess Sonya View Post
I didn't get the reference to Harry's future wife here so was asking for an explanation.

You are not alone in asking that question I wondering how Harry comes into play in this. Was it announced somewhere that since Prince Andrew does not have a son the Prince Harry would be the Duke of York afte Andrew?[/QUOTE]

I never said anything like that!!!!!!!

I just said, that since Harry, as second son of the future monarch, will likely at some point become Duke of York (when I never said and don't know), his wife will have a hard time living down the actions of her predecessor.
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  #810  
Old 07-05-2011, 02:57 PM
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Originally Posted by AristoCat View Post
You are not alone in asking that question I wondering how Harry comes into play in this. Was it announced somewhere that since Prince Andrew does not have a son the Prince Harry would be the Duke of York afte Andrew?
I never said anything like that!!!!!!!

I just said, that since Harry, as second son of the future monarch, will likely at some point become Duke of York (when I never said and don't know), his wife will have a hard time living down the actions of her predecessor.[/QUOTE]


Okay sorry if I misquoted you . I was just wondering if I missed something.
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  #811  
Old 07-05-2011, 02:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Zonk View Post
I believe the inference is that Sarah is doing damage to the title of Duchess of York thru her actions. This in turn will impact Harry's wife, assuming that 1) Andrew will die at which 2) Harry will become Duke of York and 3) he will marry and his wife will 4) become the HRH The Duchess of York as a result of Sarah's past actions will not be respected because of the previous titleholder.

I believe that's it.

Thank you for your kind answer to my question.
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  #812  
Old 07-05-2011, 05:19 PM
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Originally Posted by HRH Princess Sonya View Post
I didn't get the reference to Harry's future wife here so was asking for an explanation.

You are not alone in asking that question I wondering how Harry comes into play in this. Was it announced somewhere that since Prince Andrew does not have a son the Prince Harry would be the Duke of York afte Andrew?[/QUOTE]


It has never been announced that Harry would get Duke of York after Harry dies due to two factors:

1. Andrew is only just 51 and could easily live for another 30-40 years making Harry well into his 50s or even 60s before he gets a dukedom and
2. Andrew can remarry at any time and have a son - that son would inherit the York title.

Just imagine Harry marries and gets an Earldom in anticipation and then Andrew, aged 78 marries some young 20 year old who immediately gives him a son - Harry can't become Duke of York because that son would be the heir to that title.
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  #813  
Old 07-05-2011, 05:21 PM
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Originally Posted by AristoCat View Post
You are not alone in asking that question I wondering how Harry comes into play in this. Was it announced somewhere that since Prince Andrew does not have a son the Prince Harry would be the Duke of York afte Andrew?
Quote:
I never said anything like that!!!!!!!

I just said, that since Harry, as second son of the future monarch, will likely at some point become Duke of York (when I never said and don't know), his wife will have a hard time living down the actions of her predecessor.

However, I would say it is extremely unlikely that Harry would ever be Duke of York due to Andrew's age and the possibility of him finding a younger woman to marry and for that lady to have a son.

When Harry marries I would expect him to get a dukedom of his own at that time rather than be told you have to wait until you are in your 50s or 60s to get that title (bearing in mind by that time William might have two or more sons of his own and want the title for his own second son).
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  #814  
Old 07-05-2011, 06:09 PM
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This is only rumour of course, but several years ago people were speculating that Harry would be made Duke of Sussex. [I think the occasion was when Edward and Sophie married, as several British 'Royal Watchers' had expected Edward to be made either Duke of Cambridge or of Sussex and since he wasn't, 'Sussex' was perhaps being kept free for Harry.

Alex
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  #815  
Old 07-05-2011, 06:17 PM
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Its one thing to talk about the York title as it relates to Sarah but before the discussion of Harry and any potential titles (including the Dukedom's of York and Sussex) continue, those discussions should be made here Titles and Styles of Harry, his Future Wife and Children

Thanks.
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  #816  
Old 07-05-2011, 06:23 PM
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I don't disagree with you. The Queen has no obligation to her at all. However, Sarah's faults are not youthful transgressions. She truly has poor judgement and a lack of conscience. I don't think that Andrew and her daughters would be so forgiving unless they realized she was not going to get better and miraculously change.

If you accept that she will not change, perhaps because she is incapable of it, she will, with the excuse of needing money, engage in increasingly degrading acts. Sometimes, people are beyond "punishment"- they don't know how low is low enough. I have known people like this. You are left with two choices: let them sink, or help them, even though they may not deserve it. I am suggesting that the Queen could choose the latter.
I really wish I had you're maturity, unfortunately I don't talk as much sense as you. I have to say I don't disagree with you either. It's just I think (Don't know for absolute certain) the Queen has given her enough second chances, obviously for her grand-daughters sakes, it's just how many second chances can one person have?

Ya know what, I'm just gonna have to agree with you LOL, coz what you said makes a lot of sense. Take care.
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  #817  
Old 07-05-2011, 06:34 PM
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It dosen't really matter at all
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  #818  
Old 07-05-2011, 06:48 PM
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Well, I watched the first three episodes of 'Finding Sarah'. Lots of stuff in there.

Significant moment when Dr Phil zeroes in on the motivations behind the 'selling access to Andrew' - the patience! of the man! - anyway, it flitted through my mind that she is protecting someone, possibly Andrew. That what she did was for Andrew - for the reasons Dr Phil suggests - she is beholden to Andrew, she needs to keep him happy. I think someone on this thread or another suggested that Andrew was using her in this way. In the scene with Dr Phil when she realizes that Dr Phil understands why she did what she did, the relief in her is obvious. I wonder - was 'the friend' she was doing it for actually Andrew?
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  #819  
Old 07-05-2011, 07:00 PM
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I personally think that she has no real future for any representative position or business endeavor. She will never live this down and she's too high risk of a liability for an organization to hire her and take her seriously. Another factor is business; she won't be able to be placed in any position of substantial trust, will she? After "Finding Sarah," I don't see much happening. If she messes up again, it will be finito.
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  #820  
Old 07-05-2011, 07:35 PM
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Well, I watched the first three episodes of 'Finding Sarah'. Lots of stuff in there.

Significant moment when Dr Phil zeroes in on the motivations behind the 'selling access to Andrew' - the patience! of the man! - anyway, it flitted through my mind that she is protecting someone, possibly Andrew. That what she did was for Andrew - for the reasons Dr Phil suggests - she is beholden to Andrew, she needs to keep him happy. I think someone on this thread or another suggested that Andrew was using her in this way. In the scene with Dr Phil when she realizes that Dr Phil understands why she did what she did, the relief in her is obvious. I wonder - was 'the friend' she was doing it for actually Andrew?
Sorry Tyger, the show isn't available in Europe so would you mind filling in the blanks .... I know we could speculate and debate whether Andrew was aware of Sarah's meetings and discussions, and then took the fall for the both of them. But what do you mean that she might have been doing it for Andrew and that he was using her in this way???
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