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  #341  
Old 08-12-2010, 01:28 AM
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It's all right to be kind and generous, but there are limits. When the money is low or gone, then don't spend what there isn't buying gifts for friends. There's a line between having dear friends and buying friends.
Off topic: Sophie blabbed about topics she shouldn't have and got caught. Since then she has become a valuable member of the Royal Family and a favorite of the Queen and hasn't repeated faux pas over and again. I find it interesting that ardent supporters of Sarah always have to bring Sophie into the discussion.
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  #342  
Old 08-12-2010, 03:01 AM
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Hi Katrianna,

I am not merely an 'ardent supporter' of Sarah, and for the record, she,too was an immense favourite with the Queen before the marriage collapse. I am, rather, an 'ardent supporter' of a fair go for all. I don't know, either, about always bringing Sophie into the discussion.....in my recall, I'm the only one who recently has done so, and in my case, the only time in nearly 5 years.

Second, my contention is that Sarah has placed the Family in a serious quandry and the most sensible and efficacious solution is for them to draw on past experience and past royal practice and bail her out, whilst simultaneously constraining her financial freedoms in future.

Third, the actual burden on my song is that I believe that the demonisation of Sarah is an actual cover for an insidious attack on her ex-husband and thus the Family. This may become even more apparent in the future.
I thought that I'd made this patently clear.

As for 'buying friends'......I disagree! Those who've known her from her youth all aver that she's the same as she ever was. And if she were intent on 'buying' friendships, what could she possibly offer such tycoons as Sir Richard Branson? I would have thought that such eminent people are quite practised in identifying hangers-on and seeing through those who were 'on the make'. Significantly, they all stick with her.
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  #343  
Old 08-12-2010, 03:43 AM
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Well said and that is exactly what I believe as well.
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  #344  
Old 08-12-2010, 03:47 AM
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I do hope Polly you are not confusing Sarah with the Queen Mother. Sarah was not brought up rich and should be more careful with money than the Queen Mother, who I am sure just went on living the life she had always lived.She did what many old people do, she lived in the past and a long past it was, over 100 years. Perhaps it would be good for Sarah to live a little in her past and remember what it was like not to have money to burn.
I see absolutely no reason for HM to bail Sarah out, "fair go" as the Australian saying is, does not mean paying of an ex daughter-in-law´s debts forever, and if I am not wrong she has paid some in the past until she had had enough and announced - no more.
As to Sophie, the worst thing I can remember her saying was that the Queen was an old dear, but Sarah tried to peddle influence using her husband, and if my ears are not wrong she actually said that was the price (and a very high one) that Prince Andrew had come up with. If I were the mother of a son whose ex-wife did that and jeopardised my son´s position representing his country I would not feel like rewarding her by giving her money so that she could start spending again, and I have no doubt she would.
The little gifts, I don´t for a moment think she was giving them to Mr Branson, Mr Branson seems to be a friend of the royal family and is enjoying their company and
is more likely to be giving free holidays and gifts to Sarah than the opposite.
Sarah has to come back to the real world and she really could have seen that she had to pay for the postal service she was using, most people pay for it. She is no longer a member of the royal family and I think it has been kind-hearted but misguided on her ex(emphasis on ex) husband´s part to let her continue living the royal life at his residence.
I still think she will make a wonderful speaker but now I can´t see her doing this as I think even the densest people have understood by now that she is no longer royal despite the divorced wife prerogative of using Duchess after her name.
I wish she would marry again, but it will have to be someone who is rich enough to let her have either a loose rein or watch her like a hawk and manage her spending.
I don´t dislike her, I dislike what she has done to the BRF which, unfortunately, at least reading in the comments after every royal story, are not enjoying the respect they did such a short time ago. The Queen has always put duty first and is highly respected and I hate to see the BRF family brought into a scandal because of an unworthy of being royal, ex wife, as charming as she undoubtedly is. I would repeat what you said Polly and I would say to Sarah "fair go".
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  #345  
Old 08-12-2010, 02:18 PM
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Polly, there is no proof that Sarah was drunk except her word. Even if she was drunk during the meeting, she wasn't when she set it up. She had full knowledge of what she was doing, she wasn't forced to drink, it wasn't slipped to her and she didn't suddenly walk into a conversation about selling out her husband.

She may claim drunkenness but all evidence points to that being an extremely weak attempt to excuse her betrayal.

As for Branson, Wisteria is right on. Want a reason for him being so nice to Fergie?

Virgin on royalty: Richard Branson's children have forged an intriguing social alliance with the young Royals. But is Daddy pulling all the strings? | Mail Online
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  #346  
Old 08-12-2010, 02:41 PM
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Polly, your response was well thought out and has merit. If Sarah is indeed a pawn, it would behoove her to recognize it NOW and get OUT. Or at least negate herself so she cannot cause any more damage to the BRF, herself or her daughters.
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  #347  
Old 08-12-2010, 06:44 PM
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The Queen Mother was a member of the Royal Family. One who Hitler himself recognized was a powerful force for the British soul during WWII. Who from the time she married the second son and became Duchess of York, devoted herself ferociously to the responsibilities of Royalty even if it meant gritted teeth at times. If someone who has earned her keep in that manner 1,000 times over needed bailing out after her death, then I see nothing amiss in that.

To compare that that with one who took every advantage possible from the moment she got an HRH in front of her name, a vacation-loving one who took multiple lovers while her husband was under arms and later attempted to pimp him out, then became a bolter of the highest order and was ousted as a member of the Royal family (except that she tries to live as one on the money of others) is really insulting.

The only thing those two women shared was the title/style of Duchess of York. Both were commoners but only one was common (and still is.)

Comparing the Queen "bailing out" her mother after her mother's lifetime of service to King, Queen and country, to the Queen bailing out an adulterous former Royal who has become a professional mooch, beggars description. The two situations are so far disparate as to be laughable: like comparing the harnessing of electricity to a can of whipped cheese product.

Sarah's only a pawn to her own selfishness.
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  #348  
Old 08-12-2010, 06:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Polly View Post

In my view, there was more than a hint of corruption behind this entrapment of Sarah and I've heard it suggested that it was but the first step in 'exposing' the growing concerns about Andrew's relationships and friendships with some allegedly 'unseemly', recent, Eastern European billionaires who have become more than just his formal trade associates.

Polly, am I following you correctly?
Are you thinking that there is possibly an even bigger story/scandal involving Andrew directly?, and that Sarah's string was just the warm up act, to judge people's reaction and response to such a scandal.

Sorry if I've got the wrong end of the stick.
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  #349  
Old 08-12-2010, 07:10 PM
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Polly's points have ranged from blaming the 15 K marriage settlement on her debt (despite the fact that she cleared the original debt despite that amount), to Sarah's "drunkenness" (with no proof) to her being set up (despite the fact that it was obvious that she was out there trying to charge on her connections). Nothing but excuses that ultimately don't pass the smell test. I find it amazing that the more I hear people defend Fergie the less I like the woman.
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  #350  
Old 08-12-2010, 07:52 PM
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I am the exact opposite.
The more people criticise the woman the more I like her and try to understand where she is coming from and thus become a defender.
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  #351  
Old 08-12-2010, 07:56 PM
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On the Cash for Access sting Sarah had no one to blame except for Sarah. She may have been "drunk" by her own admission during the actual conversation and pulled the 50k payment number somewhere out of the deep recesses of her mind at the spur of the moment but there are NO excuses or places to place the blame anywhere but on her own head.

As for the Queen Mum and her debts, its been well stated what a wonderful and beloved personage she was. Truly a Queen admired by all over many many years. She lived a long, full life and to its best advantage and never hurt anyone in her family nor her country she served so well.
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  #352  
Old 08-12-2010, 08:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Osipi View Post
She may have been "drunk" by her own admission during the actual conversation and pulled the 50k payment number somewhere out of the deep recesses of her mind at the spur of the moment but there are NO excuses or places to place the blame anywhere but on her own head.
Personally I think Sarah used it as an excuse so if it came back to haunt her like it did, she would be "off the hook". After all, it works for celebrities. Especially if they very publicly go through rehab.
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  #353  
Old 08-12-2010, 09:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Polly View Post
In my view, there was more than a hint of corruption behind this entrapment of Sarah and I've heard it suggested that it was but the first step in 'exposing' the growing concerns about Andrew's relationships and friendships with some allegedly 'unseemly', recent, Eastern European billionaires who have become more than just his formal trade associates.
...
I really question the validity of and continuing campaign to sully the person of Sarah beyond the evidence of her stupid behaviour. She is not the devil incarnate by any means and I remain convinced that she's become a pawn in the campaign to discredit and embarrass the royal family. The Family in my opinion, would be wise to save her, then continue to protect her from herself and those who would undermine them.
You took the words completely out of my mouth. There is a campaign in the UK to discredit and ultimately destroy the royal family (I believe this because of other things I`ve read...non-royal related ). The targets aren`t just the royal family, but anyone perceived as an elite or an aristocrat. The media is behind this campaign, and I suspect that some of the people Andrew deals with or their own connections are also behind the campaign. Leaders in the Western world have been exposed as unethical lately, but don`t think that non-Western business and political leaders are any different, or that they wouldn`t like the positions of power currently occupied by hereditary aristocrats in Europe. And to gain power, popular support is important, thus the strategy of whipping up public resentment against "the elites" through biased articles and even set-ups like the News of the World sting.

Sarah is a very easy target because she has no discretion. It`s hard to get at Andrew and the royals in general, but easy to get at Sarah. With Andrew (and possibly the Queen, at least by perception or association) taking responsibility for Sarah`s finances, it makes it even easier to undermine Andrew and the royals, especially if Andrew ever tries to do something with his business contacts on Sarah`s behalf and Sarah spills the details.

Quote:
Watch Andrew`s job as trade ambassador--within a few years I think he will be forced to step down.
Polly, am I following you correctly?
Are you thinking that there is possibly an even bigger story/scandal involving Andrew directly?, and that Sarah's string was just the warm up act, to judge people's reaction and response to such a scandal.

Sorry if I've got the wrong end of the stick.
I don`t know if that`s what Polly was suggesting, but I believe this 100%. It`s not that I think Andrew would knowingly do something unethical, but don`t underestimate the capacity of the media to find a hint of corruption and magnify it beyond belief, or even help manipulate situations so that a hint of corruption becomes a lot more, while the participants are still completely unwitting. Look at the News of the World sting...I know Sarah did it to herself, but at the same time, the media wasn`t filming a routine occurence (even though they claimed it had happened before). This was an actual set-up. This fake sheikh is pretty good--Sarah may be gullible, but Sophie is usually thought to have a lot more common sense and he deceived her. Who`s to say that Andrew can`t be similarly deceived, not by the same guy, but by similar tactics?

Sarah is a perfect "test run" for this kind of campaign because she`s not actually royal but is associated with the royals. Since Sarah`s actions resulted in widespread public disapproval, the people behind such a campaign would be more confident about going after Andrew next. After Andrew, of course, would be the Queen or Charles.
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  #354  
Old 08-13-2010, 02:06 AM
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Thank you, rmay286.

Although I'm not one to indulge in conspiracy theories, per se, I am at least well-informed enough in the ways of the world to query these longstanding, unrelenting attacks on Sarah.

So, her businesses are bankrupt. So are hundreds of thousands of others these days. So, she's guilty of poor business acumen. She's not on her own. Luckily, few in Australia suffered from the GFC, so many of us can assess and consider from an entirely different perspective from the rest of the world, which, in its anger and pain, is seeking to punish, blame and find outlets for its rage.

As for the suggestion that Sarah was not drunk - she was! I saw the incident, repeatedly, on the news in Australia. This is not by way of an excuse for her at all, but it's an indisputable fact from the evidence of my own eyes and judgment.

My drawing a parallel between Sarah and her late Majesty, the Queen Mother, was only to demonstrate that that's was good, decent, daughters (and sons) do. Sarah's actions were entirely honourable and do her heart and sense of obligation great credit. Some wouldn't have been so scrupulous in discharging a dead parent's debts, especially when there was no legal requirement to do so. This was well done of her.

Surely, I'm not the only person, and in far-flung Australia at that, that's heard the growing rumours and quite nasty innuendoes about Prince Andrew's allegedly questionable personal friendships with recently-made Eastern European billionaires? One paid him £3m more for Sunninghill Park than the asking price, after all. I wondered at the time why that fact was necessarily made public and asked 'why'?

Personally, I acquit Andrew of any charge of corruption (he has much too much to lose, for one thing) and I can't believe that he'd risk his mother's ire or distress to do anything untoward, but then, I'm not one who has any vested interest in harming or attacking the Royal Family: au contraire.

I continue to support Sarah as an embattled and battered upon ex-royal and a faultless mother whose morals were no better nor no worse than her sister-in-law's, her brother-in-law's; her brother in law's mistress's, and the mistress's husband's.
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  #355  
Old 08-13-2010, 04:03 AM
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Polly, who's doing the dealing here?
Quote:
"FERGIE: I have the biggest heart and the biggest of everything. But I have zero money. I have nothing. REPORTER: You have got money. You're a Duchess. You're on the government payroll.
FERGIE: Bull***t. You're full of s**t. Take it back.
REPORTER: OK, not the British government - the British taxpayers pay for you.
FERGIE: Nope, No, I'm a taxpayer.
REPORTER: No, but the royal family are paid for by the taxpayers.
FERGIE: No. Not a bean. No, 'cos I'm not part of the royal family.
REPORTER: You are part of the royal family. You are a Duchess.
FERGIE: I'm not, I'm not.
REPORTER: You're a liar. You are part of the royal family.
FERGIE: Did you just accuse me of that?
REPORTER: Because you're a royal. You're a Duchess.
FERGIE: You're full of s**t. Why would I honestly ask you for any money, a bean, if I was paid for?
I add the bold and italics at the end.
She clearly states that she's the one asking for the money. If Sarah had been anyone else, just someone who worked for Andrew perhaps, they would have hung her in Piccadilly Square for that betrayal.

During the first meeting there two assistants with her who apparently didn't think it wise to remind her that selling out Andrew, to claim that it was his idea to ask for half a million.
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  #356  
Old 08-13-2010, 04:53 AM
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Well, I'd ask, first:

What is the name of the reporter?

Who was the reporter representing?

Who told the reporter, erroneously, that Sarah was on the government payroll?

Why did the reporter, erroneously, claim that Sarah was part of the Royal Family?

When was this exchange recorded?

Where was this exchange recorded?

Where was it published?

It's all of a piece, to me, i.e. asking impertinent questions based on false premises and assumptions.

I'm truly at a loss to understand the rationale behind the 'get Sarah project' unless there is a onerous sub-text beyond holding her to account for her shockingly bad past decisions.
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  #357  
Old 08-13-2010, 08:33 AM
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Soooooo.......let me get this straight.

Sarah, who threw herself under whatever man was around even when pregnant, is the moral equivalent of Queen Elizabeth The Queen Mother.....

and.....

this is all a super secret conspiracy to overthrow the monarchy. A monarchy that has no power.

Call me when some proof arrives on this one...because it's getting so deep that a shovel is required.
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  #358  
Old 08-13-2010, 08:39 AM
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This was all part of the sting set up by the paper in which Sarah hung herself, and the reporter was being provocative. Surely you remember this - it happened fairly recently. In fact we have a whole thread about it called "Cash for Access!"

No one "told" the reporter anything; if you read - read (what a concept!) - then you can see that what the reporter is doing is asking questions to bring answers and responses - which are quite distinct from each other.

But if you want to ignore what is recorded and available publicly in favor of some secret conspiracies then of course something that is recorded and available publicly is immediately suspect, n'est pas?

I'm going off to find more evidence about that layabout Queen Elizabeth The Queen Mother and how many ways she compares to Sarah Ferguson....still not finding much.
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  #359  
Old 08-13-2010, 12:23 PM
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Thanks NotaPretender, well said. It seems not only will the ex Duchess go to any lengths but so will her defenders, even though in this case it has become ridiculous.
Sarah Ferguson wanted money, Sarah Ferguson fell into a trap, but not any trap, it was a newspaper showing to what lengths she would go and she really went a long way this time, trying to sell access to her husband. Even she, who doesn´t seem to think much further than the next minute,must have realised what this would do to him, he has a a job representing his country and his family and, of course, his mother. I truly believe that it was a job originally found to occupy idle royals, but it seems he is doing quite well at it, or at least we have been told he is. What Sarah Ferguson did was disgraceful. I would like to see Prince Andrew happily married to someone worthy of the title Duchess of York and to set his ex wife loose to come to her senses and live and survive just as so many ex wives do, that is if they are not the innocent party, that of course, changes the scenario and influences the divorce settlement.
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  #360  
Old 08-13-2010, 12:52 PM
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The saddest part of the first conversation was this part:
Quote:
It led to an initial meeting with her for dinner at the famous New York boutique hotel, The Mark, on May 13.
She was accompanied by two assistants. Over a glass of vodka and tonic, the Duchess began with some small talk, announcing that she is writing a new book.
"It's going to help men with how to deal with irritating, greedy wives, who are completely out of control," she boasted, oblivious to the irony of what she'd said.
In a world where many aren't given a fair chance she spits on the favors and loyalty of those around her.

All she had to do was work with her charities and keep her head down. How easy would that have been for everyone to overlook her rough spots if that had been it and even now that could still work for her but she seems addicted to the spotlight and it's brought her nothing but trouble.
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