Duties and Roles of Princesses Beatrice and Eugenie 1: Discussion Until 2022


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Why should they bother? They are not particularly close to the throne, and if it has been decided that they will not be working members of the BRF, the PR is really not decided. They can either choose to build independent careers for themselves, or they can make the choice to be at fashion shows, parties and night clubs and then worry why they are not taken seriously; the choice in entirely for Beatrice & Eugenie.

Not particularly close to the throne? They are 5th and 6th.

Charles is in his 60's and Andrew is his 50's and while the Queen Mother, the Queen and the Duke of Edinburgh have lived rather long and blessed lives....numbers 2 and 3 (that would be William and Harry) like to fly helicopters for a living. Not the safest job to do.....yes, you could get hit by a car or develop a terminal illness as well but really. How many freak accident have led to deaths of helicopter pilots. Its a massive machine that even the most skilled pilot in extenuating circumstances (winds, machine failure, etc.) have trouble controlling. And Harry is training to fly Apache helicopters? Do I think that if something tragic happens to one the other will be allowed to continue his chosen profession? No, I don't but that is another discussion for another thread.

Frankly, until William or Harry have a child....I don't think we should be so dismissive of how close they are to the throne. Its not like they are 11 and 12. I think there are a few examples of British history of people who were fairly close to the throne but because those in front of them didn't have children or died early, either they or their children (or their children's children) benefited from "not being that close." Queen Victoria, was the daughter of the 4th son! Electress Sophia and her link.

But back on topic.

I think BP does know what will be done with either Beatrice and/or Eugenie. We just don't know yet.

Once William & Harry have a few children each, B & E will be very easily down to about tenth in the succession line.

To me, it certainly seems clear that BP do not consider the York girls to play a central role in the BRF in the medium term. Two somewhat linked points to consider:
· Appreciate the fact that there once the current crop of Kents and Gloucesters retire and HM & DoE pass away or reduce their engagements materially, there will be causes that will need royal support. Some of those charities may lose full time royal patronage, but I suspect a lot of that will be taken up by the Wales boys and their wives, and to some extent by Andrew, Edward, Sophie & Anne. The bigger "capacity" issue will arise when Anne, Andrew, Edward & Sophie start to reduce their workloads. At that stage, there could be a role for the York girls. That said, I suspect that stage is probably at least a decade, if not more, away.
· To me there is also the issue of the York girls being "ready" for them to be acceptable to these charities, and to the British public at large in a public role. These girls are very, very young, and need time to develop themselves as individuals. There needs to be some clarity as to what they stand for, and what they believe in. Having an unproven 22 year old in a posh frock show up to open a school or an orphanage is really not going to curry favour with the public. IMO, it is a far better bet to allow the York girls to develop independent careers for themselves, mature as individuals, find “themselves”, and if required in 10-15 years, start to gradually support the firm in causes they believe in. In my humble opinion, that might be a much better way forward for the girls and for the BRF.
 
I have no problem with a more streamlined monarchy so long as the public and the organisations that have had royal support realise that that will no longer be possible so the little school in the rural countryside who would have had their library opened by the Duchess of Gloucester now has to settle for the local mayor's junior assistant instead. It is these people who will be missing out on the magic of royalty in their presence.


They'll also be missing out on much publicity, and most likely will fail to draw a crowd.
That, in turn, will result in a lack of future support and volunteers.
(I have the feeling that, even with fewer active royals, these organizations will expect to see business as usual).

I just hope the BRF is aware of the repercussions in their rush to streamline. :sad:
 
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I wouldn't wonder if Eugenie will lead a very different life from that of her mother when she finished her studies.So far she is more involved with her father's charities, even though she is still at the university.

She in addition seem to have chosen a more serious topic to study and even gone off to very unfashionable Newcastle to study politics beyond other things. It might well happen that she continues to do charity work but embarks parallely on her own career. Maybe even using Eugenie Mountbatten for a name.

I doubt her uncle Charles would mind if she even goes into politics - apart from her place in the succession there is nothing to stop her from standing for parliament one day. If she so chooses.
 
I wouldn't wonder if Eugenie will lead a very different life from that of her mother when she finished her studies.So far she is more involved with her father's charities, even though she is still at the university.

She in addition seem to have chosen a more serious topic to study and even gone off to very unfashionable Newcastle to study politics beyond other things. It might well happen that she continues to do charity work but embarks parallely on her own career. Maybe even using Eugenie Mountbatten for a name.

Somewhere, a Geordie is planning your beating. lol

Eugenie, does seem the more serious of the two. A rather funny observation since shes supposed to be the wild one. Maybe it's that she simply has more of a mind of her own.


What's everyone's opinion on the Dave Clarke factor? For all the good things said about him, he seems a major difference between the sisters. The fact that Beatrice ended up with a well off guy with serious social connections, is that the reason for her slow approach to something serious after school?. While the marathon and the weight loss were a boon they, currently seem to be leading nowhere but catwalks and outings, normally with Dave at her side. The whole mni-mum thing could be more true than anyone suspects, if we apply Sarah's penchant for the good life.
 
muriel said:
Once William & Harry have a few children each, B & E will be very easily down to about tenth in the succession line.

.

They might be pushed down the succession, but those children if they appear, will not do engagements until they're 18+, so we've got a big job gap there.
 
I know that princess Eugenie is in school and princess Beatrice recently graduated but besides being students what do the two of them do?they are members of the BRF
 
I know that princess Eugenie is in school and princess Beatrice recently graduated but besides being students what do the two of them do?they are members of the BRF



Like William before them being a full-time student was all that was expected.

William had a gap year, followed by 4 years at uni during which time he did very little else, and then 6 months of more of internships before joining the army.

Beatrice has followed the same pattern except for doing a 3 year degree. She is supposed to be doing some internships - but we have no information about when she is to start them.

Eugenie is a fulltime student and as such not expected to be doing anything else although she has done a few engagements - as did Beatrice while they were studying fulltime at university.
 
Once William & Harry have a few children each, B & E will be very easily down to about tenth in the succession line.


Those children won't be doing royal duties full time though for another 30 years based on William's examply

To me, it certainly seems clear that BP do not consider the York girls to play a central role in the BRF in the medium term. Two somewhat linked points to consider:
· Appreciate the fact that there once the current crop of Kents and Gloucesters retire and HM & DoE pass away or reduce their engagements materially, there will be causes that will need royal support. Some of those charities may lose full time royal patronage, but I suspect a lot of that will be taken up by the Wales boys and their wives, and to some extent by Andrew, Edward, Sophie & Anne. The bigger "capacity" issue will arise when Anne, Andrew, Edward & Sophie start to reduce their workloads. At that stage, there could be a role for the York girls. That said, I suspect that stage is probably at least a decade, if not more, away.


That isn't an option to me - they shouldn't be told - go and get a job and a career for yourselves and then maybe in 10 - 15 years time we will need you to pick up the slack royal work (by then they will be in their mid-late 30s). If they aren't doing royal duties by then they won't be doing them at all.

To me there is also the issue of the York girls being "ready" for them to be acceptable to these charities, and to the British public at large in a public role. These girls are very, very young, and need time to develop themselves as individuals. There needs to be some clarity as to what they stand for, and what they believe in. Having an unproven 22 year old in a posh frock show up to open a school or an orphanage is really not going to curry favour with the public. IMO, it is a far better bet to allow the York girls to develop independent careers for themselves, mature as individuals, find “themselves”, and if required in 10-15 years, start to gradually support the firm in causes they believe in. In my humble opinion, that might be a much better way forward for the girls and for the BRF.

Being an 'unproven' girl in a posh frock is exactly what happens e.g. Kate is unproven - she will be doing things like this for the simple reason she got married - she has achieved nothing much in her nearly 30 years and actually done less than Beatrice or Eugenie who are years younger than her but she is acceptable because she got married while the York girls, who have been raised with the expectation of what being in The Firm means aren't acceptable.

10 - 15 years from now there will only be 4 working royals under 50 - William, Kate, Harry and Harry's wife and most of them will be over 60 - simply too bad for the British situation as they have already made it clear that the York girls aren't wanted or needed - and that is both the public and the family. They can't expect the girls to simply change tack in 10 - 15 years time after they have built their own lives and now have to change them again - with the disruption that will cause to their own children as well.

Sorry - once it is confirmed that they won't be doing the royal round of openings etc then they can't change their minds and William and Kate will actually have to work as part of The Firm.
 
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That isn't an option to me - they shouldn't be told - go and get a job and a career for yourselves and then maybe in 10 - 15 years time we will need you to pick up the slack royal work (by then they will be in their mid-late 30s). If they aren't doing royal duties by then they won't be doing them at all.

Why?

It probably works well for the girls as well. It allows them to have relatively normal lives, meet future partners, hve children, build careers, and as and when your King and country need you, you chip in to help out.


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......and William and Kate will actually have to work as part of The Firm.

Its just a question of how much time they can have to themselves, but W&K will certainly devote their lives to working as part of The Firm, irrespective of where things end up for B&E.

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Being an 'unproven' girl in a posh frock is exactly what happens e.g. Kate is unproven - she will be doing things like this for the simple reason she got married - she has achieved nothing much in her nearly 30 years and actually done less than Beatrice or Eugenie who are years younger than her but she is acceptable because she got married while the York girls, who have been raised with the expectation of what being in The Firm means aren't acceptable.

10 - 15 years from now there will only be 4 working royals under 50 - William, Kate, Harry and Harry's wife and most of them will be over 60 - simply too bad for the British situation as they have already made it clear that the York girls aren't wanted or needed - and that is both the public and the family. They can't expect the girls to simply change tack in 10 - 15 years time after they have built their own lives and now have to change them again - with the disruption that will cause to their own children as well.

I accept that Kate in the unproven girl, but she is also the future Queen. The weight of the BRF and public opinion are behind her, and she certainly appears to be giving great thought to the causes she is going to support.

There really does not apppear to be public support at the moment in the UK for junior royals outside the "main" line to enter public life.

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10 - 15 years from now there will only be 4 working royals under 50 - William, Kate, Harry and Harry's wife and most of them will be over 60 - simply too bad for the British situation as they have already made it clear that the York girls aren't wanted or needed - and that is both the public and the family. They can't expect the girls to simply change tack in 10 - 15 years time after they have built their own lives and now have to change them again - with the disruption that will cause to their own children as well.

Please see my thoughts on "capacity" in post 931 reposted below.

Appreciate the fact that there once the current crop of Kents and Gloucesters retire and HM & DoE pass away or reduce their engagements materially, there will be causes that will need royal support. Some of those charities may lose full time royal patronage, but I suspect a lot of that will be taken up by the Wales boys and their wives, and to some extent by Andrew, Edward, Sophie & Anne. The bigger "capacity" issue will arise when Anne, Andrew, Edward & Sophie start to reduce their workloads. At that stage, there could be a role for the York girls. That said, I suspect that stage is probably at least a decade, if not more, away.
 
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Why?

It probably works well for the girls as well. It allows them to have relatively normal lives, meet future partners, hve children, build careers, and as and when your King and country need you, you chip in to help out.

I know how I would feel having been told in my early 20s - you aren't wanted or needed as part of the family business so I build a life for myself, a career on my own merits and then I am told - give up what you have built for yourself because we now need you. I know what I would say - you handle the mess you created for yourselves when you rejected our offers to help 10 - 15 years ago as I/We have made our lives away from you and yours.

Sorry not fair on the girls.

If they aren't wanted now then they have to be fair to them and let them build their lives and not expect them to have to give up their lives at some future time because now they are suddenly wanted after have been rejected earlier.
 
I know how I would feel having been told in my early 20s - you aren't wanted or needed as part of the family business so I build a life for myself, a career on my own merits and then I am told - give up what you have built for yourself because we now need you. I know what I would say - you handle the mess you created for yourselves when you rejected our offers to help 10 - 15 years ago as I/We have made our lives away from you and yours.

Sorry not fair on the girls.

If they aren't wanted now then they have to be fair to them and let them build their lives and not expect them to have to give up their lives at some future time because now they are suddenly wanted after have been rejected earlier.

Unfortuntaley this is not a regular family business, and I am sure that the position would have been carefully explained to the girls by their grand parents and by their Uncle. Fair or not, thats just the way it is, IMO.
 
Unfortuntaley this is not a regular family business, and I am sure that the position would have been carefully explained to the girls by their grand parents and by their Uncle. Fair or not, thats just the way it is, IMO.


Of course it is just a family business. It is the family business of gaining as much wealth as possible from the British people and in return they entertain the masses with weddings and appearances etc.
 
Of course it is just a family business. It is the family business of gaining as much wealth as possible from the British people and in return they entertain the masses with weddings and appearances etc.

With due respect, I really do not believe your comment is worthy of a response.
 
Of course it is just a family business. It is the family business of gaining as much wealth as possible from the British people and in return they entertain the masses with weddings and appearances etc.
I am not sure if you are being serious, seriously sarcastic or just plain rude? Do you really see the BRF in such a light?
 
A royal schism and why Prince Andrew STILL insists on helicopters and guards for Beatrice and Eugenie | Mail Online


The DM rehashes the current situation with the Yorks, but doesn't really suggest any solutions.

Again, the main problem seems to be Fergie's intrusion into their lives, taking them to events the rest of the RF disapproves.

I was a bit surprised to read about Charles loathing of her; I always thought it was Prince Phillip who detested Fergie the most.
I can't help wondering if Andrew will get his way through sheer persistence! The Queen has always indulged his wishes but Charles is a different kettle of fish.

In any event, Andrew doesn't seem to have learned anything from the recent bad publicity if he's taking his daughter to events in helicopters.
 
I would guess that as every year that goes by, Charles' opinions hold more and more weight...both with HM and also with the powers to be in BP. If Charles is determined to downsize the number of working royals then his opinions will have to be considered.
 
I would guess that as every year that goes by, Charles' opinions hold more and more weight...both with HM and also with the powers to be in BP. If Charles is determined to downsize the number of working royals then his opinions will have to be considered.

To be honest, I think downsizing the Firm to include only the monarch and spouse, children of the monarch and their heir as working royals has been in the works for quite a while and I really can see it taking effect when Charles ascends the throne.

Although I do think that its very probable that both Prince Philip and Charles do not look favorably on Sarah and the foibles of Andrew over the years, I would imagine that even if Sarah and Andrew had remained married and had a picture perfect life as full time working royals, Beatrice and Eugenie would still be getting advised to seek out their own careers.
 
They are really getting steamrolled by The Mail! I pity them, I do. I think they are in an impossible position and it is quite obvious that Charles doesn't want a big role for them when he takes over. Also, their mother seems hellbent on creating problems for them till the end of time. The line in that article about "turning them into Kardashians" seemed very apt. I also thought that it was a huge mistake for them to attend that Eccelstone wedding, which was beyond tacky, right down to the guest list. Again, does anyone advise these girls? Apparently not.
 
I think way too much crap get's thrown onto Sarah's back. The Ecclestone wedding was a no brainer, Sarah's been friends with Ecclestone since her Paddy McNally days. There is a lot of assuming going on that the York Princesses aren't friends with Petra. It was a wedding for God's sake and everyone looked good.

The Daily Mail clearly hates all the Yorks. Not one of them gets off without a major jab levelled at them.

Just as banishing Sarah from the Windsor fold has bitten the Royal Family sorely time after time, everyone can mark my words that cutting the York Princesses from The Firm is going to result in even more frustration and negative publicity.
 
:previous: I'm inclined to agree. There is almost a whole generation of Royals missing from the York girls age group. Someone is going to have to help William and Harry's wives carry the load which, when you consider both William and Harry have full time jobs and only one of them is married the available pool of BRF is going to be a little sparse.

Having dissed the York girls and tried to cut them out, removed their protection and told them to get another life, I can see them trying to "use" them occasionally when it suits them. It would serve them right if, in the immortal words of Princess Anne, they told them to Naff Off! :D
 
:previous: I'm inclined to agree. There is almost a whole generation of Royals missing from the York girls age group. Someone is going to have to help William and Harry's wives carry the load which, when you consider both William and Harry have full time jobs and only one of them is married the available pool of BRF is going to be a little sparse.

Having dissed the York girls and tried to cut them out, removed their protection and told them to get another life, I can see them trying to "use" them occasionally when it suits them. It would serve them right if, in the immortal words of Princess Anne, they told them to Naff Off! :D

And that's assuming that Princes William and Harry's wives will be cut out to carry the load. The Duchess of Cambridge is already garnering criticism for not having a more active role and Prince William is being criticized for keeping her on what is perceived to be a tight leash. It's odd when you have the Yorks who are ready and willing to start public engagements and actually work!

I think it's going to be even worse than the York Princesses telling Charles et al to "Naff off!"...what The Firm should be petrified of is that both girls will simply throw their hands up and pull a Sarah, Duchess of York and go to "work". TV Commentary. Novels. Clothing lines. HELLO! photoshoots. QVC. Endorsements. You name it.

The most dangerous people are those who have nothing left to lose. Hasn't a courtier thought about that one?

They all must really hate Sarah or be absolutely terrified of her. And I mean terrified that she'll somehow destroy the monarchy through her daughters. They're giving her more power/credit that she deserves. Sarah's past her sell by date. The British public doesn't equate the two of them anymore. She's naff. She's had it. She's 'over'.

It actually boggles my mind that The Firm hasn't seen the necessity of having Princesses Beatrice and Eugenie take the role Princess Alexandra has fulfilled all these years.

It's going to come back and bite them where it hurts.

God Save The Queen!
 
They all must really hate Sarah or be absolutely terrified of her. And I mean terrified that she'll somehow destroy the monarchy through her daughters. They're giving her more power/credit that she deserves. Sarah's past her sell by date. The British public doesn't equate the two of them anymore. She's naff. She's had it. She's 'over'.

I think they do- hate her, that is.
And what I think terrifies them is that she'll somehow horn in on any events the girls attend.

If it's true that she is pressuring Andrew for a reconciliation with the RF, then I can understand the worry. She may be over, but she doesn't seem to realize that herself, and she is costing her girls a great deal.
 
And that's assuming that Princes William and Harry's wives will be cut out to carry the load. The Duchess of Cambridge is already garnering criticism for not having a more active role and Prince William is being criticized for keeping her on what is perceived to be a tight leash. It's odd when you have the Yorks who are ready and willing to start public engagements and actually work!

I agree with this, they have had their whole lives to prepare for this kind of work and Kate is reportedly still "in training." It makes no sense why they aren't being put to work. On the other hand, then you have articles talking about their father wanting them to have privacy. I just don't understand why The Queen is allowing all this coddling, even with Kate. It makes them all look so precious.
 
Diana and Sarah were both thrown in "at the deep end" as soon as they entered the BRF, and it was disastrous. Personally, I'm pleased that Kate's being given space to grow into her role. I think that we can wait until January, when she's supposed to be releasing details of the charities she wants to take on. As for Beatrice and Eugenie: Eugenie is still a student and so I don't expect to see her doing royal jobs until after she graduates--if then. Beatrice OTOH isn't doing another job right now, and so I think that she could perhaps take on some work if it's there and the palace and the people--including Beatrice--want it.
 
I think they do- hate her, that is.
And what I think terrifies them is that she'll somehow horn in on any events the girls attend.

If it's true that she is pressuring Andrew for a reconciliation with the RF, then I can understand the worry. She may be over, but she doesn't seem to realize that herself, and she is costing her girls a great deal.

But that's my point, Sarah can do whatever she likes. Show up at any event, bulldoze her way into a launch, monopolize a wedding...she has nothing left to lose with these people because they have totally cut her out. Had she been invited to the Royal Wedding you can bet she'd have been sound as a pound and absolutely silent. She would have had something to lose. At this point, she's got nothing, so she can be totally careless.

As well, the Palace is failing to see that Sarah is an island unto herself, so far as public perception is concerned, her children will not be judged based on her actions. In fact, they may be perceived sympathetically for surviving her. But it's not going to happen when they aren't working. If Princess Beatrice was a full time working royal, working a schedule anywhere similar to Princess Anne, she would be applauded.
 
As well, the Palace is failing to see that Sarah is an island unto herself, so far as public perception is concerned, her children will not be judged based on her actions. In fact, they may be perceived sympathetically for surviving her. But it's not going to happen when they aren't working. If Princess Beatrice was a full time working royal, working a schedule anywhere similar to Princess Anne, she would be applauded.


I'm not so sure her daughters won't be judged on Fergie's actions.
The article says Prince Charles finds it difficult to consider the girls as separate from the mother, and he is supposedly fond of them!

So I think that perhaps the public will have a similar problem.

As for Sarah showing up and taking over, well, she must be invited first.
And I've noticed that she isn't invited to any of these aristocratic weddings attended by William and Kate, and Harry, and other members of the RF. The same goes for many other events where a royal is expected.
 
Had she been invited to the Royal Wedding you can bet she'd have been sound as a pound and absolutely silent. She would have had something to lose. At this point, she's got nothing, so she can be totally careless.

I gotta disagree here, Sarah's is too opportunistic to not have done something with that invite unless there was a deal that kept her from doing so.
 
No doubt about it, the two York "girls" are in a tough spot - and having said that, a cushy spot as well. The very nature of their position guarantees both.

1. As Royal princesses, they have access to wider and deeper resources of all types which would assist the ambitious and/or dedicated individual to move forward in whatever direction is chosen;

contrasting with:

2. Their legacy as the daughters of two individuals who have been shown time and again to acting in a blind self-interest.

IMO, Andrew bringing Eugenie along for this is too late in the game to stop the forward momentum of downsizing. It seems that Andrew has finally come to the realization that the cumulative actions of himself and his former wife have irreparably harmed the chances of his daughters to take what he considers their rightful place as working Royals. I have no doubt that the recent information that Sarah is now living in L.A. is part and parcel of the attempt to recast the already-cast die; I see that it was also noted that Sarah would still be residing at Royal Lodge while in the UK, neatly keeping her in residence while still saying that she is no longer there. Very interesting bit of dance.

I agree with silverbic, btw; I have no doubt at all that if Sarah had been invited to William's nuptials, she would have been completely unable to stop herself from turning it into a self-sales opportunity.
 
I agree with this, they have had their whole lives to prepare for this kind of work and Kate is reportedly still "in training." It makes no sense why they aren't being put to work. On the other hand, then you have articles talking about their father wanting them to have privacy. I just don't understand why The Queen is allowing all this coddling, even with Kate. It makes them all look so precious.

The York Princesses have had their whole lives to prepare for being working royals...but they have never been trained. Over the years, they should have from time to time been accompanying their father or the Princess Royal but they never have. By trying to protect their privacy they have failed to provide the training that they need to become working royals. Kate may still be 'in training', but Beatrice and Eugenie have not really had any training at all.
 
:previous: Andrew took Beatrice along with him on one of his trips and she attended meetings and so on. Eugenie attended an event in Newcastle before this recent one, but I don't remember who she was with--although it seems to me that she might have been with HM.
 
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