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  #1541  
Old 10-21-2013, 04:30 PM
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The "other" countries that have streamlined monarchies are much smaller "geographically" speaking ... can't compare to the United Kingdom. I think Beatrice and Eugenie will be needed more often than not. Don't count them out (or hate them because you hate their mother).l

I point out "geography" because those other countries don't have a large an area to cover nor as many organizations which expect to have a royal patronage and/or occasional visit. You really can't compare a Benelux country (not that there is anything wrong with them) with the UK.

Stay tuned ...
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  #1542  
Old 10-21-2013, 06:28 PM
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When you really think about it, when in the world would Charles and Andrew really ever have the time to engage in a rip roaring family feud? Both of these men are right at the top of the list doing royal duties and engagements, Charles has his wife he probably loves to spend time with and his own children and grandchildren to worry about. Andrew may not have a wife at this time, but he does have a solid family unit he loves to spend time with.

I think perhaps someone at the Daily Mail or some other rag had spent time reading up on the Hatfields and McCoys and thought it'd be cool to spice up the British Royal Family with their own version. I'm sure as brothers, there's been times they're not happy with each other over antics, mistakes or choices but the fact remains that they are brothers.
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  #1543  
Old 10-22-2013, 10:11 AM
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Again, I just point to the question: what is a full-time royal? I doubt the royal family sees their role as full time or part time regardless of if they fulfill engagements on behalf of the Queen. Some take careers as representatives of the Queen while others choose different career paths. That doesn't make Beatrice any less royal than Harry. And that doesn't make her any less important in the royal fold either. Again, this whole full time royal thing is something made up by the public in relation to the royals job in regards to their government primarily. I'm sure the royal family puts much more focus on their role in the House of Windsor rather than their role in government. Regardless, Beatrice will make an impact for her country, be noticed and help many people. And she is royal--all through and through.
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  #1544  
Old 10-22-2013, 10:18 AM
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And just to point out--as her role as head of the House of Windsor, the Queen has taken great strides to make sure everyone is clear on TRH Princess Beatrice's and Eugenie's role in the royal family and how important they are. She put out new rules saying that the Duchess of Cambridge must curtsy to them when William is not around. And although I'm sure we all know that the younger generation rarely curtsies to each other, that's a strong message to make especially during a time when rumors are amuck that the Prince of Wales wants to cut the girls out.

And during strictly family royal business (that has nothing to do with government) like the family's walk to church at Sandringham, etc. it's always usually Princess Beatrice or Eugenie walking in lock-step with HM the Queen acting as ladies-in-waiting.
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  #1545  
Old 10-22-2013, 10:46 AM
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Originally Posted by USAPolitics View Post
And just to point out--as her role as head of the House of Windsor, the Queen has taken great strides to make sure everyone is clear on TRH Princess Beatrice's and Eugenie's role in the royal family and how important they are. She put out new rules saying that the Duchess of Cambridge must curtsy to them when William is not around. And although I'm sure we all know that the younger generation rarely curtsies to each other, that's a strong message to make especially during a time when rumors are amuck that the Prince of Wales wants to cut the girls out.

And during strictly family royal business (that has nothing to do with government) like the family's walk to church at Sandringham, etc. it's always usually Princess Beatrice or Eugenie walking in lock-step with HM the Queen acting as ladies-in-waiting.
The Duchess of Cambridge does not curtsey to Princesses Beatrice & Eugenie. Only to The Queen & Duke of Edinburgh. The young royals don't curtsey to each other.
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  #1546  
Old 10-22-2013, 10:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Dman View Post
The Duchess of Cambridge does not curtsey to Princesses Beatrice & Eugenie. Only to The Queen & Duke of Edinburgh. The young royals don't curtsey to each other.
Regardless, the rules are there. They choose not to curtsy to each other, but the rule is that she should curtsy to the blood princesses.
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  #1547  
Old 10-22-2013, 11:27 AM
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Originally Posted by USAPolitics View Post
Regardless, the rules are there. They choose not to curtsy to each other, but the rule is that she should curtsy to the blood princesses.
We don't know if that thing that people call "private Order of Precedence" is true.

The real order of precedence is that:

1. The Queen.
2. The Duchess of Cornwall.
3. The Countess of Wessex.
4. The Princess Royal.
5. The Duchess of Cambridge.
6. Princess Beatrice of York.
7. Princess Eugenie of York.
8. The Duchess of Gloucester.
9. The Duchess of Kent.
10. Princess Alexandra, The Hon. Lady Ogilvy.

Well, The Duchess of Cambridge has more precedence than Princesses Beatrice and Eugenie of York, so, she doesn't need to curtsey to them.

I not sure if she has to curtsey to The Countess of Wessex and The Princess Royal. But I'm pretty sure she has to curtsey to The Queen and The Duchess of Cornwall.
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  #1548  
Old 10-22-2013, 11:30 AM
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The Duchess of Cambridge does not curtsey to The Duchess of Cornwall and The Princess Royal. Curtsies only go out to The Queen and sometimes to The Duke of Edinburgh.

I think it's great that Princesses Beatrice & Eugenie have their patronages that they support but I think a slimmer royal family is just the smart way to go.
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  #1549  
Old 10-22-2013, 11:37 AM
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Originally Posted by BrazilianEmpire View Post
We don't know if that thing that people call "private Order of Precedence" is true. The real order of precedence is that: 1. The Queen. 2. The Duchess of Cornwall. 3. The Countess of Wessex. 4. The Princess Royal. 5. The Duchess of Cambridge. 6. Princess Beatrice of York. 7. Princess Eugenie of York. 8. The Duchess of Gloucester. 9. The Duchess of Kent. 10. Princess Alexandra, The Hon. Lady Ogilvy. Well, The Duchess of Cambridge has more precedence than Princesses Beatrice and Eugenie of York, so, she doesn't need to curtsy to them. I not sure if she has to curtsy to The Countess of Wessex and The Princess Royal. But I'm pretty sure she has to curtsy to The Queen and The Duchess of Cornwall.
We do know that the Duchess of Cambridge as well as the Countess of Wessex only take that order when their husbands are present--they take their title and precedence.

However, when their husbands are not present, they drop down quite a bit because they are not royal by blood and not princesses in their own right. When Prince William is not around, Beatrice and Eugenie both outrank Catherine. Always. This is not a matter of private order of precedence--it's just the way things work and the way they always have.
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  #1550  
Old 10-22-2013, 11:39 AM
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The old rules are there but the young royals don't pull rank. They all know their place and know who are the future Queen's.
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  #1551  
Old 10-22-2013, 11:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Dman View Post
The Duchess of Cambridge does not curtsey to The Duchess of Cornwall and The Princess Royal. Curtsies only go out to The Queen and sometimes to The Duke of Edinburgh.
The question is not whether the Duchess of Cambridge curtsey to the Duchess of Cornwall, the Countess of Wessex and the Princess Royal, but whether or not she should curtsey to those Princesses.
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  #1552  
Old 10-22-2013, 11:48 AM
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Originally Posted by USAPolitics View Post
We do know that the Duchess of Cambridge as well as the Countess of Wessex only take that order when their husbands are present--they take their title and precedence.

However, when their husbands are not present, they drop down quite a bit because they are not royal by blood and not princesses in their own right. When Prince William is not around, Beatrice and Eugenie both outrank Catherine. Always. This is not a matter of private order of precedence--it's just the way things work and the way they always have.
The source for that information are Daily Mail articles, so I'll not believe it's true.

Camilla: Britain's Fourth Lady... | Mail Online

Will the Duchess of Cambridge curtsey to Princess Beatrice and Eugenie? | Mail Online

Officially, that's the Order of Precedence:

Orders of precedence in the United Kingdom - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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  #1553  
Old 10-22-2013, 12:14 PM
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Originally Posted by BrazilianEmpire View Post
Anyone who has studied the monarchy know this to be the case. It's the same reason we will never hear a Princess Catherine. She's not a princess or royal in her own right. Regardless of if it's tradition that is followed strictly today doesn't negate the fact that this is tradition and the way things work.
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  #1554  
Old 10-22-2013, 12:44 PM
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I'm always annoyed by the way the papers try and play this as a female vs. female issue. They never talk about the fact that under the Order of precedence, I believe that Catherine has to curtsey to Harry when William isn't around, or that Sophie has to curtsey to Andrew when Edward isn't present. The story is always "Catherine has to curtsey to Beatrice and Eugenie" or "Camilla has to curtsey to Anne."
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  #1555  
Old 10-22-2013, 02:19 PM
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The Order of Precedence is NOT about curtseying anymore - it's about precedence, who goes first in/out of a room etc.
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  #1556  
Old 10-22-2013, 09:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Bella View Post
I don't think Pss. Beatrice's party is necessarily a debut into society. I think it's more of a coming of age party, which is rather different. Alot of girls here in the US have Sweet 16 parties and it's more of a coming of age party than anything else. The old debutante extravaganzas include all sorts of engagements prior to the actual party; luncheons, teas, soirees, various dances/catillions. I know this up close and personal 'cuz my mother was a deb and trust me, it's not a fun thing (according to her). I don't think the York girls are going through all of that. Wm. and Harry both had coming of age parties, I believe.
I agree I took it more as they are being launched into their roles as royals, a royal duty coming of age. William and Harry are the only other Royal Highnesses by birth in that are on the younger side - they can't do it all
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  #1557  
Old 10-31-2013, 12:01 PM
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It seems a little bit old fashioned for members of a family to be bowing and curtseying to one another. I can undersand the public doing so for the Queen though.
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  #1558  
Old 10-31-2013, 01:02 PM
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Correct me if im wrong but princesses pf the blood have always been held in higher esteem than princesses by marriage
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  #1559  
Old 10-31-2013, 03:54 PM
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Do I have this right, all of Catherine and Williams' children will be HRHs (thanks to the recent change.) None of Beatrice and Eugenie's children will be HRHs under any circumstance (unless their father became king or one of them Queen.) Harry's children will be HRHs if he has them when his father is king, but will not be HRHs if he has them when his grandmother is Queen or his brother is King. Louise and James are HRHs?
Beatrice and Eugenie won't outrank Catherine when she is Queen consort, I assume, but will they still outrank her when she is (presumably) the princess of Whales because they are born royal and she was not?
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  #1560  
Old 10-31-2013, 04:30 PM
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The HRH goes currently, under the 1917 and 2012 LPs to:

The children of the monarch - Charles, Anne, Andrew and Edward
The male line grandchildren of the monarch - William, Harry, Beatrice, Eugenie, Richard, Edward (Kent), Michael and Alexandra
The children of William - George (was the eldest son of the eldest son of the PoW - so still George but the Queen pre-empted a girl not having HRH by the issuing of LPs specific to William's children).
The spouses of male HRH's - Camilla, Kate, Sophie, Brigitte, Katherine and Marie-Christine

Louise and James are a different situation because there is debate about whether or not the fact that The Queen's will was made known is enough to strip them of HRH - and experts in the field disagree as to whether they are HRH's and not using it or whether they are in fact not HRH's at all following the decision announced in 1999. The opinions are: The Queen has made her will known and that is enough - that the 1999 announcement at the time of Edward's marriage was enough and that no actual LPs are needed while others argue that LPs are needed. As they will probably never use the HRH and can't pass it on it really is a mute point.

Beatrice and Eugenie can't pass it on as they are girls - like Anne and Margaret who is/was the daughters of a monarch - their children aren't HRH because they are girls (even when The Queen as heiress presumptive to the throne in 1948 was expecting Charles new LPs had to be issued to give all her children HRH or Charles would have been born as Lord Charles Mountbatten, Earl of Merioneth - taking his father's second title as a courtesy, and Anne would have been born as Lady Anne Mountbatten and then the would have become HRH Prince/Princess when The Queen became The Queen)
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