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  #1421  
Old 05-19-2013, 09:09 PM
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If the Gloucesters are too old then so are Charles and Camilla - The Duchess of Gloucester is a year older than Camilla and the Duke two years older.

Richard born 44
Brigitte born 46
Camilla born 47
Charles born 48
Anne born 50
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  #1422  
Old 05-20-2013, 04:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Kataryn View Post
I believe princesses who are not children of the monarch are not longer needed in a modern monarchy. In former times they were educated asa wifes of other Royals, to form blood bands between the countries surrounding their own - but where's the prince who might need or even want a marriage to one of the York princesses?
.
I might add, that there are fewer and fewer potential royal spouses since so many royal dynasties have fallen. And by marrying Princes in other countries those British Princesses left Britain to live elsewhere and wouldn't have been available to perform royal duties in Britain anyway.
Out of curiosity I looked up the granddaughters of younger sons of recent kings/Queens of Britain.
Since Queen Victoria's time there have been eight male line granddaughters of the monarch (not counting Beatrice, Eugenie and Louse) of those eight, six married Princes or Grand Dukes. The two who didn't both married younger sons of British Earls. Most interesting to me was that when Queen Victoria's granddaughter Princess Patricia married the third son of an Earl - Alexander Ramsey, she relinquished her title as a British princess and style as a Royal Highness because she married a commoner. George V's granddaughter Princess Alexandra not only did not have to relinquish her title and style when she married the second son of an earl, but her husband was offered an earldom by Queen Elizabeth II, which he declined.
So precedents exist ranging from demanding that Beatrice and Eugenie relinquish their titles and styles should they marry commoners to offering their future spouses titles.
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  #1423  
Old 06-10-2013, 05:30 AM
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Would the York Princesses actually able to request to drop their titles if they so wished? (I am not suggesting they should).

Surely an Act of Parliament would be required?
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  #1424  
Old 06-10-2013, 04:19 PM
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Would the York Princesses actually able to request to drop their titles if they so wished? (I am not suggesting they should).

Surely an Act of Parliament would be required?
They wouldn't have to drop their titles altogether, they could just stop using them. In order to do this, they would most likely follow the example set by their Uncle Edward. Let HM know of their wishes, and then she would issue an announcement that from now on they would be known as daughters of an earl, i.e., Lady Beatrice Mountbatten-Windsor and Lady Eugenie Mountbatten-Windsor. No Act of Parliament required.
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  #1425  
Old 06-10-2013, 04:40 PM
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Originally Posted by royal-blue View Post
Would the York Princesses actually able to request to drop their titles if they so wished? (I am not suggesting they should).

Surely an Act of Parliament would be required?
They can chose to stop using the titles, similar to how the Duchess of Kent has chosen to stop using her titles in various forms - her formal title is HRH The Duchess of Kent, but she prefers to e called Katherine, Duchess of Kent (I'm not sure if the "the" is omitted intentionally or not), and in her private life she is Katherine Kent.

They can chose to not use royal titles at all and simply be the Ladies Beatrice and Eugenie Mountbatten-Windsor, with an announcement by HM that it is her wish they be known as such, similar to the situation with Louise and James.

Or new LPs could be issued removing them of their titles. These could be specific to the Yorks (or the Wessexes), or the individual, or they could be made a bit more broader and refer to HM's grandchildren as a whole. In 1917 the LPs issued stated that Prince(ess)s would only be HRHs and that they were restricted to the children of the monarch, the male line grandchildren, the eldest son of the eldest son of the heir apparent, and their respective wives, although the monarch reserved the right to create additional HRH Prince(ess)s when he/she felt the need to - as seen with the Queen's eldest children, Prince Philip, and now Prince William's children. The 1917 LPs removed styles from many more distant royal descendants, and if HM issued new LPs she could limit the HRH Prince(ess) to just the monarch's children and the heir apparent's children, removing the princely titles of the Yorks and Wessexes (and any future children of Harry's). There are some who believe that Charles should/will do this when he is king.
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  #1426  
Old 06-10-2013, 05:24 PM
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They could simply follow the example set by HRH Princess Patricia of Connaught and voluntarily give up the HRH and Princess titles.
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  #1427  
Old 06-10-2013, 07:21 PM
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Originally Posted by sndral View Post
I might add, that there are fewer and fewer potential royal spouses since so many royal dynasties have fallen. And by marrying Princes in other countries those British Princesses left Britain to live elsewhere and wouldn't have been available to perform royal duties in Britain anyway.
Out of curiosity I looked up the granddaughters of younger sons of recent kings/Queens of Britain.
Since Queen Victoria's time there have been eight male line granddaughters of the monarch (not counting Beatrice, Eugenie and Louse) of those eight, six married Princes or Grand Dukes. The two who didn't both married younger sons of British Earls. Most interesting to me was that when Queen Victoria's granddaughter Princess Patricia married the third son of an Earl - Alexander Ramsey, she relinquished her title as a British princess and style as a Royal Highness because she married a commoner. George V's granddaughter Princess Alexandra not only did not have to relinquish her title and style when she married the second son of an earl, but her husband was offered an earldom by Queen Elizabeth II, which he declined.
So precedents exist ranging from demanding that Beatrice and Eugenie relinquish their titles and styles should they marry commoners to offering their future spouses titles.
I read this and thought - of the 8, how many had relatively happy married lives and how many not? Yes, I know the history of some. Granted, there are no guarantees, but I would rather see both these women marry a life partner than either a hot romance or a title.
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  #1428  
Old 06-11-2013, 05:05 PM
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Although it is my opinion that Bea and Eug should be offered the chance to become working royals in a few years time once they have established their own lives, if they don't choose to, then I would probably question whether they should be princesses at all.

For example, if the Queen's sister had been refused the chance to be a working royal and was encouraged to work for a living instead, people would no doubt question why she remained a princess or perhaps even why she was a princess in the first place.
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  #1429  
Old 06-12-2013, 05:12 AM
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Originally Posted by royal-blue View Post
Although it is my opinion that Bea and Eug should be offered the chance to become working royals in a few years time once they have established their own lives, if they don't choose to, then I would probably question whether they should be princesses at all.

For example, if the Queen's sister had been refused the chance to be a working royal and was encouraged to work for a living instead, people would no doubt question why she remained a princess or perhaps even why she was a princess in the first place.
You do know that the title of Princess has absolutely nothing to do with what they do in life? You don't earn the title. You are born into it. Princess does not make you a peer. It means you are royal.

You talk of Margaret. We have to remember too that back then it was the civil list that paid her bills. Its all in retrospect and just MY opinion but a lot of the life Margo led seems to be on par with how her Uncle David lived.
Hedonism is a good word here.

When it comes to titles and HRH and what have you. Its not by the personal behavior or deeds done to the great and good.. its who you are by birth or marriage. A biological princess could be living in the gutters of NY 8x removed and not know it.

Beatrice and Eugenie are princesses of the blood royal. The blood is the same no matter what they do with their lives. They can not change being princesses like I can't grow to be 5'8 with legs to die for.
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  #1430  
Old 06-21-2013, 01:30 AM
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Thought, I'd post this Information here, too. After all it does affect her possible future role:

Independent Princess Eugenie goes it alone with auction house job in the U.S. | Mail Online

Eugenie will work full time for auction house paddle8 based in NY from October on. Wish her best of luck and lots of success.
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  #1431  
Old 06-21-2013, 01:40 AM
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I hope she will not be paraded by her mother to all TV shows, society parties and get sucked up into that lifestyle.
Getting "real" jobs, though lowers the lifestyle/profile, definitely earns respect of public..
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  #1432  
Old 06-21-2013, 02:21 AM
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I hope she will not be paraded by her mother to all TV shows, society parties and get sucked up into that lifestyle.
Getting "real" jobs, though lowers the lifestyle/profile, definitely earns respect of public..
I believe the being paraded was Sarah's choice. Also we're not talking Hollywood here, we're talking New York with a firm full time job. Eugenie doesn't seem the type to mess around with her company.
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  #1433  
Old 06-21-2013, 02:47 AM
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Just imagine how wonderful it will be if they go up in their careers on their own..slowly and consistently..that too in the US,
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  #1434  
Old 06-21-2013, 03:07 AM
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I don't think either girls will "make" their life in the US but it's a suitable start for them.

paddle8 is a virtual auction house, in 2013 is recieved a monetary boost from Damien Hirst, Alexander von Fürstenberg , Matthew Mellon, and Jay Jopling , owner of White Cube .
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  #1435  
Old 06-21-2013, 03:42 PM
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My interpretation of what the article actually said was that she would be in New York training for a short while and then return to London, but perhaps I misunderstood.
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  #1436  
Old 06-21-2013, 04:06 PM
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This is the original article from this morning

Princess Eugenie to go across the pond for fine art selling job | Royal | News | Daily Express

The Daily MAil has lifted it from the Express site. This is a positive, supportive article.
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  #1437  
Old 06-21-2013, 09:28 PM
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It does sound like it's training for a little while then she will help when it starts in London. It could be good for her to work in another country and experience new things. It is a very positive article I'm a little surprised they have said where she will be working after it being such a secret where Beatrice works. I think there is a reason for that though Beatrice has taken more time off then is usually allowed so it probably has a link to the family in some way.
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  #1438  
Old 06-21-2013, 09:37 PM
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I don't think Beatrice has taken more time off at all - she has had a couple of days at Christmas/New Yea (normally when financial houses are shut anyway), two days in January/February for her trip to Berlin and it appears the last two weeks - so in total about 3 weeks so far since she started work and she is entitled to 6 weeks a year in the UK.

Most of the time when we see reports about her doing things they are on the weekends or at night - although I do think those facts are missed and people actually lose sight of the day of the week or the time of the year when she is seen. She is rarely seen between 9 and 5 on a weekday - when she would normally be at work. She has been seen on some days over the past two - three weeks due including the Coronation Service (1 day) a Friday and weekend in the South of France (1 more working day) and this week as Ascot and in Yorkshire.
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  #1439  
Old 06-22-2013, 04:52 AM
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True, people assume that becuase they are in thepapersalot they mustnt be working but everyone has weekends and I'm sure the girls can afford to jet off somewhere relatively close (south of france for ecample) for a weekend or long weekend.
It may also be that Beatrice's job is not full time and that she only works 3 or 4 days a week anyway
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  #1440  
Old 06-22-2013, 05:59 AM
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I believe the being paraded was Sarah's choice. Also we're not talking Hollywood here, we're talking New York with a firm full time job. Eugenie doesn't seem the type to mess around with her company.
I agree. Eugenie does not strike me as being like her mother. I think her sister is the one who wishes to have a working royal life. I also think the father is still fighting for it even though there were reports that he was given a NO from the Queen. Something about budgets and keeping the RF down to just a few. That being Charles and his offspring I think. There were reports that this was Charles' idea but I think the government might have had something to do with it.

Or it was all hogwash!
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