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  #121  
Old 01-11-2008, 09:45 AM
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I think people are too hard on Andrew. 556 engagements in one year is a lot.

I also remember reading a journalist's description of his day once. She was invited along with him on one of his international trade representative trips, and I remember this journalist saying that during the plane trip, Andrew was reading pages of information on the place he was visiting.

For royals who are not glamorous and don't seem to have much interest in vacations, parties, excitement--like Anne or Camilla--the press only has their public engagements to report on. As a result, it's presumed that they are exceptionally hard working. On the other hand, someone like Andrew, who likes golfing, skiing, is single and has glamorous female companions from time to time, is assumed to be lazy and not pulling his weight. I don't think that's fair. From everything I've read, he clearly works hard. He likes having fun too, but I don't think it's at the expense of his duties.
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  #122  
Old 01-11-2008, 11:13 AM
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Even though this is a Pss B & E thread, I'll just say Prince Andrew is incredibly hard-working. Golf is the sport of kings . . . well, businessmen, at least. And Prince Andrew is a "businessman" for his country. So what if he plays golf? Does that take away from the countless meetings and corporate affairs, luncheons and trade shows he attends?? I think not.
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  #123  
Old 01-11-2008, 03:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Bella View Post
Even though this is a Pss B & E thread, I'll just say Prince Andrew is incredibly hard-working. Golf is the sport of kings . . . well, businessmen, at least. And Prince Andrew is a "businessman" for his country. So what if he plays golf? Does that take away from the countless meetings and corporate affairs, luncheons and trade shows he attends?? I think not.
The UK has many worthwhile 'businessmen' who work for the benefit of their country and probably do a better job than Andrew, without all the perks that Andrew expects and gets. Very few of them can pick and choose which events to attend based on golf tournaments or clubs. Golf is certainly not the sport of Kings, that title goes to horse racing, anyone can join a golf club and it is certainly not restricted to business men or women here.

With Andrew as their shining example, I don't think we can expect too much of either of his daughters.
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  #124  
Old 01-11-2008, 04:38 PM
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Skydragon, do you really believe Prince Andrew only chooses places he visits based on golfing and perks? Come on. The last several events he's attended he was visiting army bases and trade shows with no golf courses in sight. Maybe other businessmen do represent their country better than Andrew - just what you mean I'm not sure - but the fact is, they are not Royalty and Royalty sells your country. That's just the way it is. I think there are enough watchdog agencies in Britain who are keeping close tabs on the royals and what they're doing to earn their keep. I think if Prince Andrew was really seriously abusing his position or violating anything, there would be mass outcry. Look how much brouhaha has been generated over Pss B & E's security costs. I don't live in England and I'm not a British citizen but in my eyes, P. Andrew is doing a good job.
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  #125  
Old 01-11-2008, 04:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Bella View Post
Skydragon, do you really believe Prince Andrew only chooses places he visits based on golfing and perks? Come on. The last several events he's attended he was visiting army bases and trade shows with no golf courses in sight. Maybe other businessmen do represent their country better than Andrew - just what you mean I'm not sure - but the fact is, they are not Royalty and Royalty sells your country. That's just the way it is. I think there are enough watchdog agencies in Britain who are keeping close tabs on the royals and what they're doing to earn their keep. I think if Prince Andrew was really seriously abusing his position or violating anything, there would be mass outcry. Look how much brouhaha has been generated over Pss B & E's security costs. I don't live in England and I'm not a British citizen but in my eyes, P. Andrew is doing a good job.
Then I suggest you move to England cos Andy needs all the support he can get. The man is viewed as a freeloader, a total waste of time and as one member of the family that people just cannot stand. And thats not me generalising - royalists and republicans like usually have two things in common; they'll agree Anne is hard working and a British asset and that Andrew is lazy and an embarrassment.
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  #126  
Old 01-11-2008, 04:47 PM
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Many many business deals are made on a golf course, or over a lovely dinner---and yes----take it from me it is "work", although the settings may not be a Board Room, every thing you do or say is the same as if you were in a stuffy Boardroom. Actualy its rather more difficult to hit the perfect balance
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  #127  
Old 01-11-2008, 05:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Bella View Post
Skydragon, do you really believe Prince Andrew only chooses places he visits based on golfing and perks? Come on. The last several events he's attended he was visiting army bases and trade shows with no golf courses in sight. Maybe other businessmen do represent their country better than Andrew - just what you mean I'm not sure - but the fact is, they are not Royalty and Royalty sells your country. That's just the way it is. I think there are enough watchdog agencies in Britain who are keeping close tabs on the royals and what they're doing to earn their keep. I think if Prince Andrew was really seriously abusing his position or violating anything, there would be mass outcry. Look how much brouhaha has been generated over Pss B & E's security costs. I don't live in England and I'm not a British citizen but in my eyes, P. Andrew is doing a good job.
I can only back up what BeatrixFan has already told you in his post, Andrew is seen as lazy, a waste of space, arrogant and a user, who claims the perks without doing the work. He probably brings less business to this country than the representatives of individual businesses, the difference is that he costs a lot more. He receives money from his mother and a salary for a job he didn't even have to apply for, they invented it for him. He is the Earl of Inverness and has visited err, thats right, I don't think he has ever accepted an invitation, prefering Aberdeen and St Andrews!
As I said, with Andrew as a role model the girls have no chance of knowing what their 'duties' are, they may be young but they are viewed in the same way. Chips off the old block!
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  #128  
Old 01-12-2008, 05:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Skydragon View Post

>snip

Andrew does not earn the money he is given and BeatrixFan and I are not alone in thinking he and his daughters are letting the side down!
Count me in too.

Those freeloaders infuriate me.
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  #129  
Old 01-12-2008, 05:44 PM
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I still believe there's hope for the York girls in terms of becoming assets to the RF. They're still young and young ppl their age go to parties and aren't necessarily thinking of royal duties and public image. I know, they should be 'cuz they're not "average" girls but they're still girls. Like I said before, Princess Anne wasn't really well thought of in her youth and I doubt many ppl felt she'd amount to much outside the horse set, but look at her now. I'm just saying we shouldn't write off Pss B & E just yet. It won't be long before there are no real royal princesses in the BRF to carry on royal duties and I think the York girls know this.
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  #130  
Old 01-12-2008, 06:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Al_bina View Post
Given the views of deeply respected Skydgradon and discussion in general, I am very curious to know how the British Monarchy has managed to survive without Duchess of Cornwall for all this time. It seems to me that only Prince Charles, Duchess of Cornwall, and Princess Anne do earn their keep, whereas Prince Andrew and other members are just "freeloaders"(Fabulous Fake, 2008). It is impossible for me to comment on Prince Andrew’s engagements and work efficiency, because I do not know what way engagements are assigned to the members of the Royal family and who does it. Considering the above mentioned, I think it would be wrong to regard Prince Andrew as lazy. Prince Andrew can not just create engagements for himself in order to keep the mass media outlets happy.
There have been complaints and articles about Andrew and Edwards lack of engagements, official or private, for very many years. If you do a search you will find complaints that predate his marriage to Sarah and Edward has 'failed' with many of the things he decided to do, rather than try to be a royal. Charles and Anne have also had more than their fair share of detractors, it is only recently that Charles' work seems to be more appreciated than it was. HM helped to hold the RF in high esteem, Diana tried her utmost to damage HM, but she failed. Camilla has given us back our happy prince and is popular amongst the non vocal members of the public.

Andrew, as with all the royals is invited to many events over a year, they can choose which ones they want to attend. I would imagine that if we were to have a list of how many refusals are sent out for no apparent reason, Andrew would top the list.

It really isn't a case of keeping the mass media happy, it is about earning the money HM gives him because he is a royal and earning the money he is paid out of our taxes. The republicans are looking for any lever they can find to drum up support for their cause and to see one of HM's children and his children abusing the HRH, is giving them ammunition.
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  #131  
Old 01-12-2008, 10:55 PM
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This discussion has me curious as to what the generation before Princess Beatrice and Princess Eugenie were doing at their age. Anyone know what Princess Anne, Prince Edward, Prince Andrew and the Prince of Wales et. al. were doing duty wise when they were 17-18?
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  #132  
Old 01-12-2008, 11:08 PM
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Good point PadThaiPrincess. I don't think that Charles did much before he graduated from university. I don't think the criticism of how much Beatrice does or does not do should happen until she is at least 22.

As to the taxpayers money that Andrew does not 'earn'. I thought the Queen gave over her revenue of the Crown Estates in exchange for the Civil List money AND was funding Andrew and Edward.
Last I heard the government got way more money from this deal than they paid out, even counting the cost of protection and transportation for public duties for her family.
If the Queen were to take the revenues back from the Crown Estates and give up the Civil List payments and pay the expenses of her staff and family from the income, I'm sure there would be howls of protest at how much she would cost the country by her selfish actions.
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  #133  
Old 01-12-2008, 11:16 PM
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Originally Posted by reen View Post
Good point PadThaiPrincess. I don't think that Charles did much before he graduated from university. I don't think the criticism of how much Beatrice does or does not do should happen until she is at least 22.

As to the taxpayers money that Andrew does not 'earn'. I thought the Queen gave over her revenue of the Crown Estates in exchange for the Civil List money AND was funding Andrew and Edward.
Last I heard the government got way more money from this deal than they paid out, even counting the cost of protection and transportation for public duties for her family.
If the Queen were to take the revenues back from the Crown Estates and give up the Civil List payments and pay the expenses of her staff and family from the income, I'm sure there would be howls of protest at how much she would cost the country by her selfish actions.
I totally agree with you. There seems to be a great deal of confusion between HM private money and public tax money? I personally fail to see why HM has to account for one red cent of what she does with her private money, it is really none of anyone else's business.

If there was really an outcry in large numbers, simply stop using tax money to fund the monarchy, as you suggested.
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  #134  
Old 01-13-2008, 12:16 AM
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Originally Posted by PadThaiPrincess View Post
This discussion has me curious as to what the generation before Princess Beatrice and Princess Eugenie were doing at their age. Anyone know what Princess Anne, Prince Edward, Prince Andrew and the Prince of Wales et. al. were doing duty wise when they were 17-18?
After leaving school, Prince Charles and Prince Edward went to university; Prince Andrew went to the Naval College at Dartmouth; and Princess Anne combined royal duties with her competitive riding. However, they were children of the monarch, not grandchildren.

Earlier royals who were in a more equivalent situation to Beatrice and Eugenie, as children of younger sons of the monarch, would have been Prince William and Prince Richard of Gloucester and Prince Michael and Princess Alexandra of Kent (the present Duke of Kent inherited the title as a child, so his situation was a lot different).

Prince William of Gloucester went to university after leaving school and then went to work for a merchant bank, followed by a stint in the Civil Service.

Prince Richard of Gloucester went to university after leaving school, trained as an architect, and started a career in architecture which was cut short when his elder brother was killed and he had to start doing royal duties and prepare to inherit the Dukedom.

Prince Michael of Kent went to Sandhurst after school and was an Army officer for many years.

Princess Alexandra, if I remember right, did some nursing training and carried out royal duties after leaving school.
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  #135  
Old 01-13-2008, 05:49 AM
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Times is not the only British mass media one could read to learn how unpopular Camilla and lazy lifestyle is since she joined the royal family. We could start quoting Guardian, BBC, Telegraph, Daily Mail, etc to point out how low her public engagement is.
Oh please, start pointing that out. But for obvious reasons exclude the Daily Mail, please.

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Camilla has a long way to earn her keep and impress many people in the public.
Do you really say that Camilla is a kept woman on living off her husband's purse?
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  #136  
Old 01-13-2008, 05:50 AM
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.

I think they should be allowed some more years of freedom before joining the 'Firm', when Pr.Alexandra, Pr.Anne, Camilla and eventually Sophie get at the age when they must cut back dramatically their public duties, then should the York Princesses take over.
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  #137  
Old 01-13-2008, 06:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Lamyah View Post
Times is not the only British mass media one could read to learn how unpopular Camilla and lazy lifestyle is since she joined the royal family. We could start quoting Guardian, BBC, Telegraph, Daily Mail, etc to point out how low her public engagement is.
All the media outlets you mention, if you read them all, quote that they took their figures from the Times, whose list is compiled by a reader (retired Tim O'Donovan). If you read the UK papers, you will see that they have come around, on the whole to supporting Charles and Camilla, (apart from Kay and even he has his moments)
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I've yet to see any large portion of the British public giving opinion on Andrew and his schedule, other than few tabloids headlines.I take such generalized claim with a grain of salt, after all many have claimed large portion of the public cannot stand Camilla and the prospect of her becoming their future queen. You see for every biases and claim, there is a counter one to it. And yes, I've read many of these post on Andrew and others
Andrew is seen by a lot of UK residents as unimportant, except for the fact that he misuses his position and the money he is given. One minute you are quoting the headlines to prove your case, even though you then go on to say it is all relative. Polls can never be indicative of the UK public as I am sure you are aware!
Quote:
its been reported last month that she visited and took the time to write to injured soldiers, something the Queen, Prince Andrew and Princess Anne have been doing for years. Even Prince Andrew went to visit the troops in Iraq and other Middle East countries last year. Camilla has a long way to earn her keep and impress many people in the public.
Camilla has visited the troops on many occasions without the fanfare that Andrew requires. Camilla's visits were as Camilla, who happens to be The Duchess of Cornwall, totally informal. Andrew, Anne and even Charles have only visited in their official capacity and no, to my knowledge and heavy involvement in two arms of the services, HM has very rarely written to and never visited the injured soldiers or bereaved in their own homes! Again to my knowledge, nobody in Andrews regiments, when injured, has received a letter from him or a member of his staff.

Andrew was born into his job and the UK public can expect more from him and his sibling, Edward. We can certainly expect better behaviour from his daughters if he is intent on them keeping their HRH.
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  #138  
Old 01-13-2008, 07:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Skydragon View Post
We can certainly expect better behaviour from his daughters if he is intent on them keeping their HRH.
I think that's at the basis fo the problem: Beatrice is most of the time portrayed as a spoiled society brat, there is nothing in the media that outbalances this image. a lot we hear from her is: I want.... ...to be an astronaut, to be a fashion designer or a mini-mummy, .... to spent my gap year in London doing nothing. We don't ever hear anything that is important for the society (except that she spends a lot of money to get the economy going).

Okay, she is young and probably is blabbing to "sources" about her dreams but why doesn't she do something worth reporting? At the moment the RF obviously has no young, shining princess, fit for a fairy tale. But the media simply waits for one. If Beatrice would give them just a little bit of that, they'd love her. To quote Richard Kay (at the Diana inquest about why the Daily Mail supported Diana): "It found in Diana someone with whom our readers identified and we were therefore quite supportive of her."

I have no doubt if readers could identify with Beatrice, they would not hesitate for a moment to support her. But who wants to identify with that girlie?
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  #139  
Old 01-13-2008, 08:24 AM
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Jo of Palatine:

You make very valid points with which I agree.
Well said.
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  #140  
Old 01-13-2008, 11:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Jo of Palatine View Post
I think that's at the basis fo the problem: Beatrice is most of the time portrayed as a spoiled society brat, there is nothing in the media that outbalances this image. a lot we hear from her is: I want.... ...to be an astronaut, to be a fashion designer or a mini-mummy, .... to spent my gap year in London doing nothing. We don't ever hear anything that is important for the society (except that she spends a lot of money to get the economy going).

Okay, she is young and probably is blabbing to "sources" about her dreams but why doesn't she do something worth reporting? At the moment the RF obviously has no young, shining princess, fit for a fairy tale. But the media simply waits for one. If Beatrice would give them just a little bit of that, they'd love her. To quote Richard Kay (at the Diana inquest about why the Daily Mail supported Diana): "It found in Diana someone with whom our readers identified and we were therefore quite supportive of her."

I have no doubt if readers could identify with Beatrice, they would not hesitate for a moment to support her. But who wants to identify with that girlie?
I mostly agree with you here, Jo, but not about the need for fairy-tale princess. I hope the fairy-tale lust is dead forever. Fairy tales spin nightmares like Brothers Grimm.

I want more than anything, for Beatrice, to see Beatrice behave as herself. I want to see Beatrice, the real Beatrice, the person and get to know her and like her. Trying to be a kind of "people's princess" for Kay to cash in would be just another way of posing, I'm afraid.
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