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  #1161  
Old 11-26-2011, 08:40 PM
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The Chicago Sun-Times is not a tabloid. Funny how it became one in the course of this thread. The person who wrote the article is not usually considered a tabloid journalist, by any means. One can investigate his earlier journalism rather easily. I doubt he'd risk his journalistic career by going totally rogue at this point.
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  #1162  
Old 11-26-2011, 09:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
So doing normal things that young people do - and that Harry, William and Zara all did at their ages - such as going clubbing, going to friends' weddings, making poor fashion decisions, like most young ladies, including Zara and Anne and supporting and loving their mother are bad choices.

How sad that people see two normal young ladies, making the same poor decisions as their older cousins (at least neither of them have had the stupidity to wear the uniform of a Nazi to a costume party - but then Harry can be forgiven - he was young - about the same age that Eugenie is now but she isn't allowed to make mistakes).

Double standards - sorry but this is so unfair and if the RF are judging them accordingly then they aren't much of a family who understand that young people have to make mistakes as they grow.
Indeed. All of the examples given of these young women's poor behavior seem pretty harmless, even in comparison to that of their own cousins.

I suspect that Beatrice and Eugenie could cure cancer and broker world peace and they'd still be pilloried, simply because how people feel about their parents. I think they've been turned into permanent scapegoats, and that's unfortunate, IMO.
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  #1163  
Old 11-26-2011, 09:25 PM
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The Newspaper may not be. But if it is not, the "Society" editor needs a rocket. Please refer to my earlier post. No reputable sources, none named, nasty inferences . . . . . all smell of no research, no intention to check information and, in short, no journalistic integrity!

Instead of writing a well reseached story about the York girls he has taken a really nasty cheap shot, courtesy of someone's gossip. If he is a good journalist then let him have the guts to write a well researched article about the Yorks that has reputable and reliable sources. Anything else is is risible.
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  #1164  
Old 11-26-2011, 09:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Susanna Wynne View Post
A rhetorical statement, Iluvbertie, just a rhetorical statement...

As a matter of fact, the princesses would be well advised to follow the example set by Catherine before her marriage. She has hardly put a foot wrong, then or now...

When I was being educated there was no such thing as a 'rhetorical statement' only rhetorical questions' - ones that didn't need an answer. Your statement way an exaggeration - and beyond the possibilities of any person - but unfortunately sums up the views of a lot of people about the York girls.

Kate certainly isn't a role model for any women as she didn't work and just waited for a proposal - hardly a ringing endorsement. Yes I know that she supposedely worked for her family but any outside job had to be on the condition she was available for William when William called.

I would like to see the girls actually do something with their lives rather than revert to 19th C ideas of waiting for a man. Kate has put back the women's fight for equality a century with the message she sent young girls - don't do anything with your lives but wait for marriage and then sit around and take care of your husband - hardly a ringing example of a role model for any young woman, in my opinion.
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  #1165  
Old 11-26-2011, 09:50 PM
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Kate is hardly setting women's rights back. And I wouldn't call earning a University degree as doing nothing with her life.

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Originally Posted by camelot23ca View Post
Indeed. All of the examples given of these young women's poor behavior seem pretty harmless, even in comparison to that of their own cousins.

I suspect that Beatrice and Eugenie could cure cancer and broker world peace and they'd still be pilloried, simply because how people feel about their parents. I think they've been turned into permanent scapegoats, and that's unfortunate, IMO.
I too think it's unfortunate that they are being judged by the acts of their parents.
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  #1166  
Old 11-27-2011, 12:47 AM
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How is working for your family consider not real work? And were didn't this supposed condition that she could only work on a job where she would be available for when William call? The Daily Mail?

And I thought one of the reason that women fought was so that they could have a choice in what they choose to do? If a women wanted to b/c a housewife, stay at home mother, work part time, work for the family business or do nothing so what. As long as she can afford.
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  #1167  
Old 11-27-2011, 01:08 AM
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Originally Posted by miche View Post
How is working for your family consider not real work? And were didn't this supposed condition that she could only work on a job where she would be available for when William call? The Daily Mail?

And I thought one of the reason that women fought was so that they could have a choice in what they choose to do? If a women wanted to b/c a housewife, stay at home mother, work part time, work for the family business or do nothing so what. As long as she can afford.

The story about her being available for William was from Jigsaw - the company that offered her a job.

Yes woman fought for the right to choose but that right doesn't extend to members or aspiring members of the royals families as they have to work and work until they drop - they have no rights - but one who hasn't done any work at all since leaving university (and if you believe that she worked for her family business full-time rather than be on call for William I have a Bridge for sale over Sydney Harbour) isn't a role model for young people - and to be held up as one is wrong. Princess Mary did actual work - even after meeting Fred, even though it meant leaving her home and family and yes Fred helped her find work in Europe but she did work - unlike Kate who simply waited.

Beatrice and Eugenie - the topic of this thread - would be better off taking Zara as a role model - a girl who got a good degree, found something she enjoyed, was good at and works hard to succeed and has reached the top of her profession - that is the sort of role model I would set up for young people to follow - one who works hard and succeeds on her own merits.
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  #1168  
Old 11-27-2011, 01:19 AM
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Why wouldn't I believe she work full time for her parents company, she is the one that started First Birthday for the family. She also organized many charity events before marrying William.And I remember reading all those article about her trying to start her own mail and order company after she graduated college. The only place I ever heard that story about Jigsaw was the Daily Mail and they have made up many stories and quote about many celebrities.

Anyway you are not going to believe Kate did anything other than wait, just like many people many people believe Mary did not work after she move to Europe b/c of some so called article and interview that co-worker did after Frederik got her the job.
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  #1169  
Old 11-27-2011, 02:13 AM
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Beatrice left college six months ago and so far besides go to parties and follow her boyfriend around she really hasn't done all that much. So she does seem to be following some peoples version of Kate. Except Kate did work for her family and didn't go and hang out with the Euro trash. I thought she had several very hard to get internships lined up but so far she hasn't done anything. Even if she did some charity work not just attend a party it would make her have a better image. But for someone who is supposed to have a passion for it she seems not too really care that much. Maybe that is why the stories of Prince Charles and the RF not wanting them to be working royals keeps being bought up? If Beatrice did something positive then it would give the tabloids etc something other to talk about. But so far going to fashion shows, looking pretty and being with her boyfriend are her priority. It's nearly Christmas there must be a lot of charities that would love some help. Beatrice knows what the press are like and doesn't help herself.
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  #1170  
Old 11-27-2011, 02:26 AM
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When William and Catherine's engagement was announced, Catherine was stepping into a very difficult job. Whatever work she did in the years preceeding their wedding, she was certainly very well prepared for her new role. They had time to build their relationship away from the eyes of the world and Catherine had time to learn what being a royal was all about and what would be expected of her.

At the time, being 'waity Katie' didn't look very good. But in hindsight, maybe she was very wise.
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  #1171  
Old 11-27-2011, 03:07 AM
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Iluvbertie I love your post you sum it up so well
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  #1172  
Old 11-27-2011, 04:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miche View Post
How is working for your family consider not real work? And were didn't this supposed condition that she could only work on a job where she would be available for when William call? The Daily Mail?

And I thought one of the reason that women fought was so that they could have a choice in what they choose to do? If a women wanted to b/c a housewife, stay at home mother, work part time, work for the family business or do nothing so what. As long as she can afford.
Yep. I thougt that was one of the reasons too.

I honestly don't know why it's so hard to believe that Kate worked for the family business. I've actually seen a few photos of her at work (there's even a video of her attending some marketing convention). I guess since there were no daily photos people just choose to believe she sat at home all day doing nothing.

It could be that Beatrice hasn't started working because she's still unsure about what she wants to do. Or maybe she's been interviewing regularly and hasn't found anything. She's only been out of school for a few months, so I cut her some slack. I do think getting involved with a charity would be a good idea for her though.

I think there is a place in the BRF for Beatrice and Eugenie, so I hope the rumors of PC slimming their official royal duties aren't true.

ETA: I just read about Beatrice's internships...good for her. Does anyone know when she starts?
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  #1173  
Old 11-28-2011, 05:12 PM
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Honestly, if she stood at the entrance of a store with a Salvation Army kettle, she'd probably take in a lot of donations. I think that word would get around and people would drop money in the kettle just to get a chance to see her. She's friendly and pleasant enough to smile and say "thank you."

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It's nearly Christmas there must be a lot of charities that would love some help. Beatrice knows what the press are like and doesn't help herself.
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  #1174  
Old 12-26-2011, 03:21 PM
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If you want a job...

...then you need to act as though you already have it. If the York princesses really want a job with the firm, then their best bet is to be models of decorum and dignity. They seem to be pleasant girls, and they are pretty and could be an asset to the firm. But for HM or Charles to want them in the fold, they should be above reproach. Yes, they are young and fun-loving, but sometimes you need to sacrifice something you enjoy to get something you want. As the Rolling Stones said...
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  #1175  
Old 12-26-2011, 04:09 PM
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Why is Beatrice and Eugenie going to a friends wedding any different than William and Harry going to one of their friends wedding? I'm asking because it seems that because they attended this particular wedding, they no longer seem to be fit to be working royals.

Is it because of who the bride is? Or who the father of the bride is?
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  #1176  
Old 12-26-2011, 05:10 PM
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Well, it's in part because it conflicted with a major family event for Christmas. The girls are seen to be preferring their rich friends and a Caribbean vacation over being with the royal families.

Perhaps (and I wouldn't be surprised), even the royals see hanging out with the family as a key and crucial part of being a representative (working) royal. Given their father and mother's errors in choosing friends/business associates, the skills that Beatrice and Eugenie need to develop might be best learned by some personal sacrifice and at their grandmother's knee. That may be the way Charles views it - and his view is likely more important than anyone else's on this matter (save the Queen's, and she probably has multiple reasons for deciding to scale down the number of working royals, just as Prince Charles will have).

I don't think it helps that the York girls are seen as hobnobbing with the very rich as a main public activity this time of year, no. But, if duty is part of being a representative royal, they should respond to that call.

Myself, I think they have no chance of getting back on the list of working royals (for several reasons - it simply has to be pared down somehow and it's traditional for children of a reigning monarch to get those roles - and in the future, that will be William and Harry...) Since they cannot be working royals, they may as well cultivate their own friendships, find their own way in the world.

OTOH, if they wanted to get back on the list, they would have likely been better off hanging out with the family that day.
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  #1177  
Old 12-26-2011, 05:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PrincessKaimi View Post
Well, it's in part because it conflicted with a major family event for Christmas. The girls are seen to be preferring their rich friends and a Caribbean vacation over being with the royal families.

Perhaps (and I wouldn't be surprised), even the royals see hanging out with the family as a key and crucial part of being a representative (working) royal. Given their father and mother's errors in choosing friends/business associates, the skills that Beatrice and Eugenie need to develop might be best learned by some personal sacrifice and at their grandmother's knee. That may be the way Charles views it - and his view is likely more important than anyone else's on this matter (save the Queen's, and she probably has multiple reasons for deciding to scale down the number of working royals, just as Prince Charles will have).

I don't think it helps that the York girls are seen as hobnobbing with the very rich as a main public activity this time of year, no. But, if duty is part of being a representative royal, they should respond to that call.

Myself, I think they have no chance of getting back on the list of working royals (for several reasons - it simply has to be pared down somehow and it's traditional for children of a reigning monarch to get those roles - and in the future, that will be William and Harry...) Since they cannot be working royals, they may as well cultivate their own friendships, find their own way in the world.

OTOH, if they wanted to get back on the list, they would have likely been better off hanging out with the family that day.
Well as Zonk stated earlier, surely the Queen was happy for Beatrice and Eugenie to miss this one dinner out of the numerous they have attended, so I don't see how that puts them out of the picture for being working royals. Christmas lunch at BP is part of being a royal, it's part of being in a family. They attended Christmas day with their family, which IMO is the most important time of year to be with your loved ones.

It's quite simple, if Charles wants to keep up the number of engagements the entire working royal family do each year when his mother & father/siblings and relatives pass then he will have to include the York girls or reduces the amount of public engagements and royal patronages causing possible public anger.

You say "she probably has multiple reasons for deciding to scale down the number of working royals", do you mean The Queen? Because I have never read an article that says the Queen wants to scale down the RF just the Charles. William nor Harry are fully fledged working royals yet and won't be for a good few years, they went in to the military after their educations ended, so I see no reason why Beatrice/Eugenie find jobs (which btw is quite hard even for royalty these days) after finishing their educations and then becoming working royals when needed.

At Princess Eugenie's current age, Prince Harry was dressing up in a Nazi uniform and doing drugs.
Prince William took 8 months to decide what he wanted to do after graduating St Andrews.
Beatrice and Eugenie are judged harsher than there cousins due to IMO the press, public perception and William and Harry having their mothers protective cloud over them.
William and Harry have also been seen to hang around with some very rich people, but I doubt that would ever affect their images.
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  #1178  
Old 12-26-2011, 05:57 PM
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Missing the dinner is not what put them out of being working royals - that happened some time ago.

My point is that it doesn't help them get back into the working royal role, especially as in the future it will be their Uncle Charles who makes the decision. I suspect the Queen would consult with him before putting anyone back on the list. They would be the obvious next persons to put on the list, wouldn't they?

William and Harry won't be put off the list, as sons of the future monarch, no matter what (so it's nice when they behave with decorum, isn't it?)

But Beatrice and Eugenie have no such certainty in their lives - and (my other point) is that they appear to have accepted the fact that they need to make their own way in life. THe social occasion they did attend was probably quite important to them, socially.

It doesn't matter what either of the princes was doing "at their age," it matters that they've been stricken from the list, that no one plans to expand the list, that the list cannot be expanded without a monarch lobbying strongly for that expansion (or paying for it him/herself?)

Prince Charles is unlikely to restore them to the list, IMO. I don't think they could truly wage a PR type campaign to get back on the list and be successful. I do think that they could fall even further from royal grace, though, and get themselves disinvited from occasions that it would be to their benefit to attend (although I really think that's unlikely; I think that all of the Queen's grandchildren will be treated with some indulgence - but not necessarily paid engagements - as long as she lives).
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Old 12-26-2011, 05:59 PM
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Well as Zonk stated earlier, surely the Queen was happy for Beatrice and Eugenie to miss this one dinner out of the numerous they have attended, so I don't see how that puts them out of the picture for being working royals. Christmas lunch at BP is part of being a royal, it's part of being in a family. They attended Christmas day with their family, which IMO is the most important time of year to be with your loved ones.

It's quite simple, if Charles wants to keep up the number of engagements the entire working royal family do each year when his mother & father/siblings and relatives pass then he will have to include the York girls or reduces the amount of public engagements and royal patronages causing possible public anger.

You say "she probably has multiple reasons for deciding to scale down the number of working royals", do you mean The Queen? Because I have never read an article that says the Queen wants to scale down the RF just the Charles. William nor Harry are fully fledged working royals yet and won't be for a good few years, they went in to the military after their educations ended, so I see no reason why Beatrice/Eugenie find jobs (which btw is quite hard even for royalty these days) after finishing their educations and then becoming working royals when needed.

At Princess Eugenie's current age, Prince Harry was dressing up in a Nazi uniform and doing drugs.
Prince William took 8 months to decide what he wanted to do after graduating St Andrews.
Beatrice and Eugenie are judged harsher than there cousins due to IMO the press, public perception and William and Harry having their mothers protective cloud over them.
William and Harry have also been seen to hang around with some very rich people, but I doubt that would ever affect their images.
Agree. Influence of Diana and Fergie is still visible... unfortunately. I know that all 4 had hard times when their parents separated but now they're adult and should be judging not because they're children of Diana/Fergie but what they're doing. Boys found in army, Eugenie is still studying, Bea left university few month ago. They've time to establish their positions in BRF. William will be king, Harry will support him. York girl? I can see them in some charities but I don't know if they'll be full time royals. It's their decision. They need IMO. Wait and see.

About missing dinner - if Queen didn't see any problem why people did. Everyone forgot that William missed his close cousin, Peter's wedding and went to Africa?
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Old 12-26-2011, 06:16 PM
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I don't know about the rest of you, but giving permission to children to miss an event is not at all the same thing as being happy about them missing it. This comes up in most every family. I would never interfere in my daughters' decisions to do as they wish (and they do always politely come to me to "ask" for permission to skip a family thing - which they know will always be granted; that's the style in many families). I keep my private feelings about them missing family occasions between myself and my husband. There's absolutely no reason to assume the Queen is "happy" (or not) just because she gave them permission. What else, really, could she do? It would be absurd for her to withhold permission.

But given the nature of old age, I doubt she is truly happy that they weren't all together as much as possible (she may be a really exceptional older person and not give a fig and therefore be happy not to see her grandchildren, but to me, that makes her a somewhat peculiar grandmother). She could also be happy for them, but not happy for herself and Philip, at their absence. Or maybe, as is implied by her "being happy that they didn't come," she just doesn't care (but that's precisely what I'm doubting). The Queen seems to me to be a person who would make a decision based on reasoning, not her feelings - so why anyone would assume she's happy they were absent I don't know.

Does any grandparent really feel they get to see "enough" of their grandchildren? Maybe. Just not a familiar thing, to me.

Agama.Pearl, how is it their decision. IIRC, their dad asked (begged?) if they could not be restored to the list - and it was a no go. The list of working royals is being pared and I don't think it's up to the two York princesses to make their own decision about their (paid) role. If you mean, "they can do the work of royals without being paid," well then, of course they can.

But to me, being a "working royal" means getting to do royal work with all expenses paid. The Queen revoked Beatrice's and Eugenie's security detail (IIRC) and has made it clear to their father that he will be paying their future expenses - neither the Crown nor the taxpayers shall pay them. A working royal is someone who is paid by the Crown to do work on behalf of the Monarch. I'm not sure that Prince Charles is technically a "working royal," as I believe he pays his own expenses, the Queen does not (maybe she does...I'd appreciate some expertise here).
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