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  #1041  
Old 11-09-2011, 11:29 AM
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If I'm honest, I don't find those subjects substantive because everyone I have known who ended up with a liberal arts degree had a difficult time finding a job that would support them.
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  #1042  
Old 11-09-2011, 11:48 AM
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Originally Posted by blauerengel View Post
.............Beatrice has not received much praise for her style in the past-so I wonder if women want to hire her as a stylist and take fashion advice from her...but I could imagine she would make a good milliner because she is often wearing exceptional,excentric pieces of headgear and creating and designing could be a fulfilling job...

A lovely idea in theory, but I forsee a problem: Generally, so far at the UK is concerned, Millinery is the same as any other fashion discipline and most people come to it from art-school Fashion training. Once you emerge from College with your degree, you have to fight your way for an apprenticehip or similar, and you 'start at the bottom' - the old-fashioned phrase was 'picking up pins for [insert name of Designer]'. Should Beatrice wish to go down this route, then I think that she would need a minimum of 3 years at art school and then probably a place on a [highly competitve] postgraduate course. And then that apprenticeship. Beatrice would have to apply NOW for the 2012/2013 Degree courses, and I reckon she would need a minimum of 5/6 years training and further work before she qualified. And I still think that she is generally perceived as having a lack of style.........

I know this is terribly old-fashioned, but I do think that if she wants a career as a royal, her best option is to marry [so ending the 'need for her to seen to work', add some charity work to her role as a wife [many rich London wives sit on charity committtees and run charity balls and fairs etc] and then she would be better positioned to slide across into performing royal duties as and when the older generation start to hand over some of their roles........

Just my thoughts,

Alex
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  #1043  
Old 11-09-2011, 11:57 AM
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Originally Posted by KittyAtlanta View Post
If I'm honest, I don't find those subjects substantive because everyone I have known who ended up with a liberal arts degree had a difficult time finding a job that would support them.

It's really quite true so far as the UK is concerned; the problem being that Beatrice's degree is NOT vocational. There is nothing wrong in 'studying-a subject-that-you-love -or-are-good-at' but it is hard to go straight into work with a non-vocational degree. Sometimes it is possibly to get a 'training' job in - for example - HR or Marketing, but you then have to work hard on the job for a qualification from the relevant professional organisation. The recession has not made things easy at the moment and a few months ago, a study showing what had happened to last year's Arts subjects graduates [i.e. basically from non Russell-Group universities] basically showed that a good few were in jobs far below their 'qualifications-level': clerical roles, waitressing, bar work etc or - even worse - on benefits. Others were, howver, training as teachers, often, it seemed, as 'something to do' rather than because they had a burning vocational desire to teach.........

Alex
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  #1044  
Old 11-09-2011, 12:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Diarist View Post
... [snipped]
Prince Michael of Kent After Sandhurst he served in the Army [not in the Guards from memory] with several tours of duty abroad for the best part of 20 years. He was almost totally below the royal radar during that time, occasionally making the odd balcony appearance right at the end of the line, and although I presume he went to the wedding of Anne and Mark, I cannot even remember it. [In fact, he was so much in the background that reputedly Viscount Linley once had to ask 'who Michael was'!] Prince M. occasionally appeared in the tabloids when photographed with some 'eligible young gel', but this was almost always 'a photograph' rather than being accompanied by any juicy gossip - at most there would be a paragraph along the lines of 'eligble, dashing Prince Michael out on the town'. And then along came Marie-Christine von Reibnitz, rather full of herself [even though she was not entitled to call herself 'Baroness']. Prince Michael suddenly found himself dragged into the spotlight [and the centre of the BP balcony!!!] by his 'pushy' new wife, and he left the army around the time of Charles and Diana's wedding.......... Prince Michael does work hard for his charities etc, but a lot of the less than positive press comment that has been directed his way [mainly due to his 'pushy wife'] has really been due to his appearance on the Royal Scene as a perfomer of 'royal' duties.... ....[snipped]
It is always amusing to read sneering remarks aimed at Princess Michael as if she is the worst possible member of the British royal family. All was fine and well in the British royal family until her arrival. Princess Michael's transgressions are pale in comparison with dirt Prince Charles' and Prince Andrew's divorces dragged their family through.
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  #1045  
Old 11-09-2011, 12:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Al_bina View Post
It is always amusing to read sneering remarks aimed at Princess Michael as if she is the worst possible member of the British royal family. All was fine and well in the British royal family until her arrival. Princess Michael's transgressions are pale in comparison with dirt Prince Charles' and Prince Andrew's divorces dragged their family through.
I guess the difference is that most people in the UK appear to have moved on from the difficult times for the Wales' when their marriage broke down, and appear to be quite relaxed seeing Charles appear visibly happy in his marriage to Camilla. To me, they appear to be a lot less "relaxed" about Princess Michael and her possible transgressions.
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  #1046  
Old 11-09-2011, 01:11 PM
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British people and their a lot less "relaxed" attitude towards Princess Michael does not matter much nowadays. The bickering and parsimonious Windsor clan does enough to occupy their attention.
As for Prince Andrew's daughters, they should capitlise on their connections to find sinecures for themselves.
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  #1047  
Old 11-09-2011, 01:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Al_bina View Post

British people and their a lot less "relaxed" attitude towards Princess Michael does not matter much nowadays.
You are so right, Princess Michael is rather irrelevant in our lives.

However, the perception certainly is that she is exactly the type of minor royal that that brings negative attention to the royal family and strengthens the argument for a slimmed down monarchy.

I appreciate your views in relation to Prince & Princess Michael, I do hope you do not find mine offensive.
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  #1048  
Old 11-09-2011, 02:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Al_bina View Post

The bickering and parsimonious Windsor clan does enough to occupy their attention.
A parsimonious royal family is viewed quite positively these days. Rather be seen as tight than end up as their Russian cousins!
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  #1049  
Old 11-09-2011, 03:39 PM
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Originally Posted by sliver_bic View Post
The thing with Kate was that many questioned whether she was actually doing any work at all. What was she doing? Laying out catalogs? Taking pictures of the merchandise? Ultimately, isn't it far better to have a real job that's gained through connections than one where people don't believe you're doing anything but laying a smoke screen while waiting to get a ring?
I pointed it out before but I'll do it again: in my experience, children of self-made entrepreneurs are forced by their parent's expectation to work more than others who are employed by people who are not family. Why Catherine's work wasn't more obvious? Maybe the Middletons are intelligent people who realised that bringing their daughter up-front in their business would get them headlines of "cashing in on Royal connection" through the sheer fact that Catherine was known to be William's girlfriend. So what were they to do?
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  #1050  
Old 11-09-2011, 03:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Diarist View Post
I know this is terribly old-fashioned, but I do think that if she wants a career as a royal, her best option is to marry [so ending the 'need for her to seen to work', add some charity work to her role as a wife [many rich London wives sit on charity committtees and run charity balls and fairs etc] and then she would be better positioned to slide across into performing royal duties as and when the older generation start to hand over some of their roles........
In Germany, we have the "daughter"-term: the daughters of rich families of course pass their final exams but then decide to either stuy medicine or veterinair medicine (animal daoctor?) because they always had a horse and of course love cats and dogs. When they find out real work is involved (medicine can be quite bloody and as a vet you have to artifically inseminate cows by.... well, find out...) they search for a husband instead. There is a common saying: if you haven't found a future doctor in the third semester, you have to make it yourself... In Britain obviously you study somethin with "arts"...
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  #1051  
Old 11-09-2011, 05:50 PM
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Originally Posted by KittyAtlanta View Post
Both girls are between "a rock and a hard place" when it comes to living their lives. They can't hide who they are, which is going to be a monumental obstacle into having their own careers. IMO, neither of them chose substantial subjects to study while at university. Hopefully, after a bunch of "internships" they will both pursue higher degrees in a specific profession so they can both get meaningful work. Of course, I believe they will both marry well and if that's the case, the ability to work might not be important at all.

Thanks for the insult - I didn't realise that I hadn't studied a 'substantial' subject at uni - e.g. History. You may not have realised that what you said was insulting to a very large number of people - myself included, who have spent our lives in studying history and making careers in a range of areas based on those degrees.

I am sorry but anyone who doesn't think that 'history' is a 'substantial' subject simply doesn't know what it involves or the careers that it can lead to - we have a chart at my school with well over 100 career options for people with degrees in History.

Beatrice has a good degree in a field that she chose so presumably she has some idea of where she would like to go - unless the idea of that she and her sister aren't to be doing royal duties has only just been sprung on them this year (as she was about to finish her degree), which I suspect might be the case and hence she is looking around with internships to find a career that she will enjoy and one that will also use her skills - history is a subject that trains people to think, evaluate, research etc etc etc.

Last time I checked Eugenie was studying politics - another substantial subject, along with English and Art History - again a coures that involves the devopment of a lot of skills.

Both girls could develop wonderful careers within the royal fold based on those skills with the Royal Archives and the Royal Art Collections.
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  #1052  
Old 11-09-2011, 06:10 PM
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Originally Posted by KittyAtlanta View Post
IMO, neither of them chose substantial subjects to study while at university.
Since when is History, Art History, English Literature and Politics not substantial subjects?
History, English Lit and Politics, in this country anyway, are 3 of the most sought after degrees when employers look for workers. If you don't consider them "substantial" what do you consider as a good degree?
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  #1053  
Old 11-09-2011, 06:18 PM
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Originally Posted by KittyAtlanta View Post
If I'm honest, I don't find those subjects substantive because everyone I have known who ended up with a liberal arts degree had a difficult time finding a job that would support them.

I work with lots of people in a profession with 10000s of peole with liberal arts (as you call them degrees) and have made very good livings from them -politicians, teachers to name two.

I have supported myself all my life, have a good standard of living, never been unemployed in my life, own my own home (and about to build another one - with no mortgage) and all on a History degree - as are most of my friends and colleagues.

Many of the students I have taught who have gone on to study History at uni have found jobs quite easily in a range of fields, not just teaching.
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  #1054  
Old 11-09-2011, 07:00 PM
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Calm down, Bertie. Come join me in burning our degrees and cursing the heavens. Looks like all that Shakespeare I got jammed down my throat, and eventually grew to love, for my English degree was all for nothing. :)

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Originally Posted by Kataryn View Post
I pointed it out before but I'll do it again: in my experience, children of self-made entrepreneurs are forced by their parent's expectation to work more than others who are employed by people who are not family. Why Catherine's work wasn't more obvious? Maybe the Middletons are intelligent people who realised that bringing their daughter up-front in their business would get them headlines of "cashing in on Royal connection" through the sheer fact that Catherine was known to be William's girlfriend. So what were they to do?
Not to turn this into a Middleton thread but she had years where the pressure wasn't on. They were broken up for a while weren't they? She chose not to work and as such has to take the beating that comes with it.

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Originally Posted by Al_bina View Post

As for Prince Andrew's daughters, they should capitlise on their connections to find sinecures for themselves.
That would be so ridiculously sad if they simply quit life like that. Unless, of course, it's who they actually are. They'd still be sad but it'd be pathetic instead of unfortunate.
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Old 11-09-2011, 07:33 PM
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To those holding liberal arts degrees that I may have offended, my apologies.

I'd like to further state that initiative also has a lot to do with the person's success with any kind of degree. Some people can't make it with a doctorate. I do not see the York girls as being go-getters when it comes to careers.
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  #1056  
Old 11-09-2011, 07:59 PM
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^^^^^
Since Beatrice only recently was awarded her degree and Eugenie is still working on hers its a bit too early to write them off. They are the first British princesses to even attempt a university degree. In the long run education is never a loss.
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  #1057  
Old 11-09-2011, 08:54 PM
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It's been nearly six months since Beatrice left college. In that time all she seems to have done is party and vacation. I have yet to hear off her doing any charity work off her own bat. She is supposed to have several internships lined up where most can barely get one. So far she hasn't even started one she must be relaxed enough by now. Most others graduated would have started their careers. Bea doesn't seem to be in any hurry to start work and this will cause comparisons with her mother. It's getting close to Christmas then there is the annual ski holiday so next year is looking more likely for her to start doing something. I think they knew long before this that they wouldn't be needed for a fulltime role but her father and mother clearly have other ideas and Andrew is pushing for them but it seems it is more for the benefits of being Royal then because they have any great passion for charities. There is no reason the girls can't have careers and if they work hard in time they will earn respect. No one get's respect first thing it needs to be earned. If they work hard and show they have dedication and talent then in time they will get more positive attention. But Bea has to start working first and not make going on holidays and being seen out at events a priority. If she follows her mothers footsteps and is seen on holidays every couple of months then she will get very negative feedback. I do think Kate should off done something more usefull she had years to do something so Beatrice should learn a lesson from her in that respect.
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Old 11-09-2011, 09:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Lumutqueen View Post
Actually those "serious image issues" belong to their parents and Beatrice and Eugenie haven't done anything the other royals haven't done.

SNIP It is the press and people who make out B&E to be bad people or have crappy images when there is nothing wrong with their image.

SNIP

The only thing that these two have done "wrong" is the occasionally fashion mistake in my eyes. I am all for wanting Beatrice to work for her family, to live up to her title, actually i'm all for her doing something with her life. But I think it is unfair to criticise these girls when they have done nothing wrong.
While I agree that in my own personal view, the girls have done nothing wrong, "the people and the press" are a large part of what constitutes public reality. If they want a public career (and royals have to join the public sphere, along with many doctors, teachers, lawyers, officials and anyone else who in any way works for the public) what the "press and the people" think of them will be eternally important.

And I am not referring to the public actually paying directly for them - I'm just talking about acceptance within the public. The public is what it is. It doesn't really matter how nice (or royal) one is if the public doesn't pay attention, what would be the point of making appearances?

On a slightly different note (and nothing to do with LumutQueen's post), charities often have to put themselves out there to have a particular celebrity be their PR entity. If the publicity doesn't "feel good," then the celebrity isn't a good fit for that charity.

In short, image is everything in the business they're in.
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Old 11-09-2011, 09:37 PM
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It could also be that Prince Andrew, who stresses that his daughters are royal and feels they should enjoy the perqs of being in that position, might also be a stumbling block in encouraging them to develop viable careers. Perhaps he's too busy arguing with Charles about their status and duties in the family rather than focusing his energies on advising the girls to develop their own careers.
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Old 11-09-2011, 10:28 PM
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The fact that the current unemployment rate in Britain for young people of Beatrice's age is running at over 20% could also have something to do with it. She might be being advised not to take a job from someone else similarly qualified who needs the job - just imagine the outcry.
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