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  #981  
Old 10-26-2011, 09:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Susanna Wynne View Post
Apparently, she does not, Mirabel! And she clearly lacks class, discretion, and wisdom, and doesn't hesitate to use those poor girls to her own ends whenever possible. From the pathetic appearance on Oprah with the girls, to carrying that ridiculous bag, she seeks to underscore her connection to the royal princesses that are her daughters, further eroding their perception by the public and, therefore, their value to the Royal Family.
That "ridiculous bag", as someone pointed out on another thread, was a PRESENT from Beatrice and Eugenie to their mother!
I can understand that people would criticise Sarah for certain mistakes she has made with money or with "scandals" that put her in a bad light in the press. But I honestly can't understand how she can be criticised as a mother! She adores the Princesses, and they love and respect her in return. She doesn't "underscore her connection" to them - she is their MOTHER and rightly takes great pride in being the mother of two beautiful, intelligent, compassionate young ladies.

Consider this: the Princesses over many years knew their Mum as "the legend" for her charity work and all that she did to help others. In an 18th birthday interview with the BBC, Beatrice talked of how she wanted to be a "Mini-Mummy" and carry on her mother's work. In the 2007 documentary "Duchess in Hull", Eugenie talked of how proud she was of her mum, and how "everything, all my values" came from her. In emails reprinted in the "Finding Sarah" book, the Princesses are so supportive of Sarah's project of self-discovery and clearly have great pride in her and enormous love for her.

OK, rant over - but I do honestly believe that whatever criticisms one can make of Sarah, she is an exceptional mother, and there is nothing fake or exploitative in their relationship - it is one of LOVE!
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  #982  
Old 10-26-2011, 03:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Tiberivs View Post
This was to be expected, I doubt that the Queen, Charles and their cohorts would want reality show celebs representing the royal family.
Which is odd considering The Royal Family pioneered reality television with that 1960s documentary about them which The Queen sealed from public access after its release on the BBC.
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  #983  
Old 10-26-2011, 03:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Lord_Royal View Post
Which is odd considering The Royal Family pioneered reality television with that 1960s documentary about them which The Queen sealed from public access after its release on the BBC.
Well, Lord Royal, it is probably a matter of live and learn. They made the show, realized it was a horrible idea, then pulled it from view.

Sometimes you have to actually make a mistake to learn. IMHO

They haven't made that mistake again, have they? (Not being snotty, I really don't know the answer!)
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  #984  
Old 10-26-2011, 03:49 PM
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Let's stay on topic....the duties and roles of Princesses Beatrice and Eugenie.
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  #985  
Old 10-26-2011, 05:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FergieFan View Post

I do honestly believe that whatever criticisms one can make of Sarah, she is an exceptional mother, and there is nothing fake or exploitative in their relationship - it is one of LOVE!

I believe you do see it that way, FergieFan.
But many people take a different view.

The reasoning is this: the BRF wants nothing to do with Fergie (at this point, this seems very obvious). Yet most members of the family seem fond of her daughters and would like to include them in family events.

Yet they hesitate, because Fergie keeps involving them in things the RF doesn't approve of.
I can't help feeling that if she didn't persistently do this in full public view, the girls would have a much easier time of it.

This may seem like devotion to you, but to me it is definitely exploitative. (Nor have I ever forgiven Fergie for allowing her daughters to subsidize her from their trust funds! I just don't believe an exceptional mother would do this).
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  #986  
Old 10-26-2011, 08:39 PM
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Just to answer your question RoyalNewbie, and not to go off-topic: Some think that the two documentaries and picture books done by the Prince and Princess of Wales in 1985 and 1986 were horrible mistakes. They were charming at the time, but both Charles and Diana answered a number of rumours about themselves in the first one (should the rumours have even been dignified by being discussed in an interview?), and the second one followed them around for a full year, on tour and at home. The documentaries and picture books served as great PR at the time; but when the Wales marriage fell apart, they were seen to have been misleading about what the Wales family life was really like.

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Originally Posted by Royal Newbie View Post
They haven't made that mistake again, have they? (Not being snotty, I really don't know the answer!)
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  #987  
Old 10-26-2011, 10:09 PM
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IMHO Princesses Beatrice and Eugenie will have to "put a foot down" with their mother in regards to royal duties. Yes they are her children, but they are no longer children. They have to accept that although their mother is still part of the York family, in a fashion, she is no longer a member of the royal family, whom they will represent when performing royal duties and that "organization" wants no public affiliation with their mother. If Princesses Beatrice and Eugenie request their mother to back off it is my opinion that Sarah will take her daughters' request to heart especially if they explain how important it is for them to perform royal duties for their grandmother. I believe that were this to occur it would gain both Princess Beatrice and Princess Eugenie a lot of confidence in their maturity, thus their abilities to perform royal duties. Once again encourage their mother that in private they'll continue to spend quality time with each other, but politely demand for her to try to not interfere with them performing royal duties. Just a thought...(well quite a few, actually)
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  #988  
Old 10-27-2011, 10:50 AM
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Yes, that would be the easiest way but, from what we've seen, it's highly unlikely.
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  #989  
Old 10-28-2011, 08:58 AM
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I think the girls will work full time as royals. I think the monarchy will need them once Charles becomes King and even more so when William is King. But I do believe that they should just start with it. Maybe start as Catherine is starting. Take some time to analize what kind of charities you want to support and in the meantime make a few appearances here and there. I think Beatrice is ready for that. Eugenie should wait until she finishes college. I'll be the first to admit that I'm a fan of the girls - well, the family, really - but I do believe that Beatrice can save the family - image wise. She seems balanced. She improved her image all by herself, by acting more responsable and plus she looks better than she ever had. If she steps up she could turn the public opinion about them.
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  #990  
Old 10-28-2011, 09:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rcra View Post
... I do believe that Beatrice can save the family - image wise. She seems balanced. She improved her image all by herself, by acting more responsable and plus she looks better than she ever had. If she steps up she could turn the public opinion about them.

I honestly believe the RF is wavering about this.
On one hand, they really could use someone to step in when the older royals reduce their workload.
But I suspect they don't trust Fergie to keep her distance (and they'd probably be glad if she removed to another country).

If Beatrice stops making public appearances with her mother, then perhaps Charles will have a change of heart (I do think he's behind the plan to have the girls take jobs in the private sector).
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  #991  
Old 10-28-2011, 09:19 AM
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Agree. I think that in a way, Sarah might be holding the girls back, without even realizing it. I thinks this is their biggest problem. The girls love their mother very much and they know she was insecurity issues. There is no way they say: "Look mum, I love you and all but you need to step back". This would crush Sarah.
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  #992  
Old 10-28-2011, 02:27 PM
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Originally Posted by rcra View Post
Agree. I think that in a way, Sarah might be holding the girls back, without even realizing it. I thinks this is their biggest problem. The girls love their mother very much and they know she was insecurity issues. There is no way they say: "Look mum, I love you and all but you need to step back". This would crush Sarah.
It would crush the Princesses even more were she to hold them back. That is not a parents job. A parents job is to teach their children well (sorry, Russo sounds like a Crosby, Stills and Nash song here!) and let them go on their own. By not letting them, Sarah is not doing her parental duty.
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  #993  
Old 10-28-2011, 03:03 PM
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I think that dismantling the Tripod would be difficult for everyone concerned and involve upset on all sides. I can see Sarah pulling out all the manipulative stops and the princesses feeling very guilty and responsible. Would Sarah go so far as to publicly complain about being "cast off" by her daughters? However, if she did that, I think that people would likely side with Beatrice and Eugenie on that one.


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Originally Posted by Russophile View Post
It would crush the Princesses even more were she to hold them back. That is not a parents job. A parents job is to teach their children well (sorry, Russo sounds like a Crosby, Stills and Nash song here!) and let them go on their own. By not letting them, Sarah is not doing her parental duty.
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  #994  
Old 10-28-2011, 03:29 PM
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Oh dear, this really is a messy situation, isn't it? I, too, believe that the real reason for the decision not to give royal roles to B and E is the actions of their mother - I have come to this view by 'looking at the situation from the other way round' : imagine if Sarah and Andrew had not divorced and that Sarah [and Andrew for that matter] had for the past 25 years carried out royal duties in the same manner that (say) Princess Anne has. If that had been the case, then I am sure that the Queen and Prince Charles would both see the virtue in letting the younger generation join in and help share the burden...

Dismantling the 'tripod' would appear to be hard - or at least difficult, but there again, in purely practical terms, Sarah has NOT been constantly at her daughters' sides for the last n years: she was not with them when they were at school and she certainly wasn't by their sides when they were at university [...imagine a professor about to begin his lecture, looking up and seeing Beatrice sitting there poised to take notes on the history of ideas, and then seeing that by her side was a grinning redhead!!]

If only Prince Andrew was more sensitive to situations, rather than being so boorish. The matter of the dismantling of the Tripod could be solved so much more easily if he were to say: Fergie, old thing, you've been gadding about for the last quarter of a century. The girls adore you and know that you always mean well, but now it is time for them to spread their wings....they will, likely as not, be married in a few years' time and now seems an ideal time for them to start to find their royal feet and do a few duties by themselves. They will need - and always be grateful for - your encouragement and advice, but rather in the same way that Catherine and William will in due course be taking on more duties, the two girls will need to do this on their own: Catherine and William mostly do not have Charles and Camilla there out with them when they carry out royal duties, but no doubt they are 'back home', watching carefully with help and advice being available should it be needed by William and Catherine, and I therefore think that our two beloved daughters need to be able to enjoy this type of freedom as well...............

Which would solve things nicely. Which is why it is unfortunate that Andrew does not have the nous to think of this himself... Perhaps the Queen could think of stepping in? Without having any evidence to prove it, I get the feeling that AFTER the diamond jubilee, although I am sure that the Queen WILL NEVER ABDICATE, she might well start to think of handing back a few more duties to the younger generation, and if so, then this would be an ideal opportunity to call on B and E and therefore an opportunty for the Tripod situation to be tackled in a sensitive manner BY THE QUEEN. After all, if it is acceptable for Catherine and William to 'fly solo', Sarah can't really object, can she?

Only my thoughts, and not meant to offend,

Alex
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  #995  
Old 10-28-2011, 05:54 PM
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Very insightful! Although I don't really follow the Yorks girls closely, I always had the vague impression that they have their own minds, and that they are aware of how folks view their parents. Whether they will step up and tell their parents to "shape" up or at least not drag them into their antics anymore, is up to them--they just need the courage to do that.

Of course I could be completely wrong with all this, but I do feel for them though and do hope that eventually they'll become productive members of the RF, especially when the Queen and DoE need to cut back even more and shift the work to the rest of the RF.

Just my very humble opinion on something I have little idea about.
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  #996  
Old 10-28-2011, 07:39 PM
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I find the Duchess of York completely irritating for many reasons, but the way she latches onto her daughters -- the constant references, the hand-holding at events -- is bizarre. (I have a twenty year old daughter with whom I am very close; I am not her friend or her playmate and I don't feel I have to constantly emphasize how close we are -- of course, I did just write in this reply that we are close!) However, more importantly, we really don't know what Beatrice and Eugenie are capable of. True, they seem to party a lot (but don't a lot of young people their age?) but I have never read anything which indicates that they are not polite, likable girls. If they set their minds to it, I'm sure that they could do good service for the Royal Family. However, we will probably never know. It's unfortunate, because I think Beatrice and Eugenie are capable of a lot of things that they will never be able to even try out. If they pursue careers in the private sector, no matter how hard they try and how well they do, I think that they will just be continually criticized and that is a shame. In addition, their appearances will probably be constantly torn apart. I do not find either one particularly attractive, but so what? Isn't it more important that they have good hearts? I would much rather have a so-so looking person (looking presentable, naturally) who is compassionate and caring out doing charity work than a supermodel/celebrity who shows up for the cameras.
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  #997  
Old 10-28-2011, 08:17 PM
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I think the issue of whether or not the girls will be given any sort of "working royal" position is much related to the total amount of money involved. If the line is drawn at the children of the Future King, that makes some sense. If Prince Andrew's children are paid by anyone other than their father (e.g., the Queen, Prince Charles or the taxpayers), then surely Princess Anne's children should be paid as well, and Prince Edward's when they are old enough. That's a lot of money spent out on the Queen's various grandchildren - and surely Charles has a say in this, as he will have to administer the entire bunch one day.

Presumably, they have trust funds (all of the grandchildren) and need no further monies from the Queen. Everyone has likely known all along that it was unavoidable that Charles's children be treated differently - but, does Harry get money for royal appearances? I've never heard that he does. He has a job, and a great deal has been made of that fact while he's here visiting in the States.

I've said this before, but I really do believe that most people around the world do not recognize Beatrice and Eugenie very readily, whereas Fergie is still recognizable to many, hence she is dragging them into public recognition in the only way she (and her PR consultants) can figure out.

Both girls are plenty old enough to "fly on their own" if they wish, they do not have to hold hands with their mother in public if they do not wish to (or if, in fact, they are still that immature that they cannot figure out how to manage that situation, then they aren't ready to "fly on their own.") Most children indicate quite clearly to their parents how they wish to be treated, as adults, in public. Most families cooperate in setting up habits or customs with which everyone is comfortable. If the girls are uncomfortable with their mother's style but pretend in public not to be, then they've all chosen that path together (although that sounds rather sad to me - everyone colluding so that Sarah doesn't have to grow up and act like a mature adult).

But perhaps the girls like the handholding or whatever. Who's to say?
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  #998  
Old 10-28-2011, 11:14 PM
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The difference is that Edward's children don't use the titles prince and princess, and Princess Anne's children don't have any royal status whatsoever. Beatrice and Eugenie have been HRH Princess Beatrice of York and HRH Princess Eugenie of York since they were born and were very much in the public eye. If they aren't going to do royal engagements, the Cambridges better have a whole whack of kids grown up by the time Prince Charles passes on.

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I think the issue of whether or not the girls will be given any sort of "working royal" position is much related to the total amount of money involved. If the line is drawn at the children of the Future King, that makes some sense. If Prince Andrew's children are paid by anyone other than their father (e.g., the Queen, Prince Charles or the taxpayers), then surely Princess Anne's children should be paid as well, and Prince Edward's when they are old enough.
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Old 10-29-2011, 12:13 AM
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They don't need to have a whole 'whack of kids' at all.

What people have to realise is that in reducing the size of the working royal family they will also be reducing the number of engagements by a considerable number as well e.g. currently they carry out over 4000 engagements a year with 15 working royals but as that number will be reduced under Charles to about 6 - 8 then the number of engagements will also have to be reduced to about 2000 and the small hospitals and military units etc will simply not have any royal visits. Tours will also have to be shorter or many countries that get a visit now about once every 4 years like Australia will have to settle for once every 8 years (and Canade down to every 4 years instead of every 2 years as now)
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Old 10-29-2011, 12:37 AM
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Yes, I was being facetious with my "whole whack of kids" remark. I just want to scream "It's not fair!" All those organizations with royal ties won't be getting their Royal visits, and we in the Commonwealth who like to see the Royal Family from time to time won't see them as often.
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