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  #921  
Old 10-19-2011, 09:52 PM
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I really think it would help if Beatrice was seen helping a charity she left uni several months ago and has had plenty of time to go and do some charity work. Doing one London marathon and selling a silly hat doesn't show a dedication to charity work Harry started his own charily a couple of years ago and works really hard at it. William has worked for charities for awhile too all while both have fulltime jobs. Beatrice claims she has a passion for it but I'm sorry I don't see a passion for anything but going to parties and socializing like her mother. A passion would be her being involved for a long time in something and doing it whether she get's her picture taken or not. Having you mother make you an ambassader for her charity isn't the same thing. Plenty of people go to school and either work or do charity work Beatrice has shown she has plenty of time to party and have great holidays. Maybe that is why the RF aren't too keen on it she really hasn't shown any great commitment. Princess Anne has worked hard for many years and yes she is a hard act to follow but no one can say she is lazy and doesn't work hard. If BP do know what is going on I would think by now both the girls know what there choices are. Andrew really seems to be pushing for it so they can get the perks etc and I do think Sarah is behind the scenes pushing for it too. Sarah holds a lot of stock in being the mother of two Princess it would look good for her if they were members of the firm. Beatrice has said she wants to be a mini mummy that alone would send out warning bells to most people. I do agree I think people realise if the Monarchy is to be made smaller there will be less Royals to do the engagements so naturally not all patronages will have Royal support. And I agree these days there are celebrities who do the same sort's of things and whose names have as much if not more pulling power with out the downside.
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  #922  
Old 10-19-2011, 10:42 PM
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Right. I have no doubt at all that an organization gets a huge boost by having a royal patron. It's important to the volunteers who work with the charity that they get recognized by a royal visit now and then. Plus, even a visit by a "minor" royal gets some advance publicity and coverage in the local paper. It's good that the community knows that these organizations exist.

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Originally Posted by Zonk View Post
IMO there are plenty of organizations who definitely need and appreciate their royal patronage. I am sure if someone asked any of the number of organizations supported by the Duchess of Gloucester or Princess Alexandra (who also use security for their events) if they would rather have them or the flavor of the moment, they would not hesitate to keep the so called minor royals.
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  #923  
Old 10-19-2011, 11:02 PM
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There is a long way between a minor royal becoming a patron of a few charities here and there and being an active major royal being funded by the RF (The Queen now, Charles later) and also receiving taxpayer funded security, which seems to be what Andrew is angling for in the case of his daughters.

Once Charles is king, it would be surprising if there is much if any official role for the Yorks.
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  #924  
Old 10-19-2011, 11:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Susanna Wynne View Post
There is a long way between a minor royal becoming a patron of a few charities here and there and being an active major royal being funded by the RF (The Queen now, Charles later) and also receiving taxpayer funded security, which seems to be what Andrew is angling for in the case of his daughters.

Once Charles is king, it would be surprising if there is much if any official role for the Yorks.


The current minor royals - the Gloucesters and Kents are effectively supported by the Queen as they really don't have any other major means of support and have had to pay quite a bit in death duties over the years.

They do get full security when on these duties. They only jobs these royals have is to carry out royal duties.

The issue seems to be whether or not Beatrice and Eugenie will do the work currently carried out by the Gloucesters and Kents. The Duke of Gloucester for instance is associated with over 150 organisations and he is a minor royal. The Duke of Kent is somewhat similar as is Princess Alexandra. Between then about 500 organisations - these are the ones that will be missing out - not a few but quite a lot.

Then you have to ask who will pick up the other 1200 associated directly with Philip and the Queen?

We are now at about 1700 organisations who currently have a royal association that will either lose that association of will have to pass to William, Kate, Harry and Harry's wife if Beatrice and Eugenie aren't to also take over some of that number (which they can't be expected to do if they are working full time or totally retired from public life - as it seems that the British public and more senior royals would like).
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  #925  
Old 10-20-2011, 12:05 AM
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I didn't mean for my post to suggest that minor royals taking on patronages are not extremely helpful to the charities they are serving. And everyone's posts did help me rethink my position a bit, and learn more about the importance of the duties of the royals who are less well known.

However celebrities doing charity work does not cost the taxpayer money, official royal duties do. This is why I am not opposed to the princesses working for a charity or performing charitable work if they so choose, but it should not be on the public dime.

The issue of celebrity vs. royal was not meant to be the main point of my post though.

I realize I probably sound like one of the people who constantly whines about how the royals are 'parasites' or 'leeches', and I want to stress that that is not how I feel at all. I do however think that this recession is going to be around longer than most people seem to realize, and is not something that can be waited out for a year or two before things go back to normal. The monarchy should reflect this. I have always felt the British monarchy has survived for so long because of its ability to adapt.

Not to mention that even if the economy does miraculously turn around, many people would prefer a more streamlined monarchy in the future anyways.
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  #926  
Old 10-20-2011, 12:18 AM
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I have no problem with a more streamlined monarchy so long as the public and the organisations that have had royal support realise that that will no longer be possible so the little school in the rural countryside who would have had their library opened by the Duchess of Gloucester now has to settle for the local mayor's junior assistant instead. It is these people who will be missing out on the magic of royalty in their presence.
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  #927  
Old 10-20-2011, 12:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
I have no problem with a more streamlined monarchy so long as the public and the organisations that have had royal support realise that that will no longer be possible so the little school in the rural countryside who would have had their library opened by the Duchess of Gloucester now has to settle for the local mayor's junior assistant instead. It is these people who will be missing out on the magic of royalty in their presence.
And if those organizations find they can survive just fine without royal patronage, and there is less royal presence throughout the country due to downsizing, how long until people feel there is no need for royals at all?
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  #928  
Old 10-20-2011, 01:04 AM
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If appearances by members of the Royal Family become less common, the value of them in the public mind could actually increase.
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  #929  
Old 10-20-2011, 01:06 AM
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Yes, and these are the organizations that I feel badly about--small organizations who don't have many wealthy benefactors and really need the publicity and pick-me-up of a royal visit.

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Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
I have no problem with a more streamlined monarchy so long as the public and the organisations that have had royal support realise that that will no longer be possible so the little school in the rural countryside who would have had their library opened by the Duchess of Gloucester now has to settle for the local mayor's junior assistant instead. It is these people who will be missing out on the magic of royalty in their presence.
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  #930  
Old 10-20-2011, 01:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
I have no problem with a more streamlined monarchy so long as the public and the organisations that have had royal support realise that that will no longer be possible so the little school in the rural countryside who would have had their library opened by the Duchess of Gloucester now has to settle for the local mayor's junior assistant instead. It is these people who will be missing out on the magic of royalty in their presence.
I see what your saying. It would be a shame to see all the magic of royalty lost in the name of finance and politics. However, if that library gets shut down due to cuts then nobody is going to care who opened it.

I don't think it would be right to immediately ditch all organizations that benifit from a royal connection with no notice or care. However, there are priorities that need to be taken into account.

I am starting to go off topic though, so I'll end my reply there
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  #931  
Old 10-20-2011, 07:50 AM
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Why should they bother? They are not particularly close to the throne, and if it has been decided that they will not be working members of the BRF, the PR is really not decided. They can either choose to build independent careers for themselves, or they can make the choice to be at fashion shows, parties and night clubs and then worry why they are not taken seriously; the choice in entirely for Beatrice & Eugenie.
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Originally Posted by Zonk View Post
Not particularly close to the throne? They are 5th and 6th.

Charles is in his 60's and Andrew is his 50's and while the Queen Mother, the Queen and the Duke of Edinburgh have lived rather long and blessed lives....numbers 2 and 3 (that would be William and Harry) like to fly helicopters for a living. Not the safest job to do.....yes, you could get hit by a car or develop a terminal illness as well but really. How many freak accident have led to deaths of helicopter pilots. Its a massive machine that even the most skilled pilot in extenuating circumstances (winds, machine failure, etc.) have trouble controlling. And Harry is training to fly Apache helicopters? Do I think that if something tragic happens to one the other will be allowed to continue his chosen profession? No, I don't but that is another discussion for another thread.

Frankly, until William or Harry have a child....I don't think we should be so dismissive of how close they are to the throne. Its not like they are 11 and 12. I think there are a few examples of British history of people who were fairly close to the throne but because those in front of them didn't have children or died early, either they or their children (or their children's children) benefited from "not being that close." Queen Victoria, was the daughter of the 4th son! Electress Sophia and her link.

But back on topic.

I think BP does know what will be done with either Beatrice and/or Eugenie. We just don't know yet.
Once William & Harry have a few children each, B & E will be very easily down to about tenth in the succession line.

To me, it certainly seems clear that BP do not consider the York girls to play a central role in the BRF in the medium term. Two somewhat linked points to consider:
· Appreciate the fact that there once the current crop of Kents and Gloucesters retire and HM & DoE pass away or reduce their engagements materially, there will be causes that will need royal support. Some of those charities may lose full time royal patronage, but I suspect a lot of that will be taken up by the Wales boys and their wives, and to some extent by Andrew, Edward, Sophie & Anne. The bigger "capacity" issue will arise when Anne, Andrew, Edward & Sophie start to reduce their workloads. At that stage, there could be a role for the York girls. That said, I suspect that stage is probably at least a decade, if not more, away.
· To me there is also the issue of the York girls being "ready" for them to be acceptable to these charities, and to the British public at large in a public role. These girls are very, very young, and need time to develop themselves as individuals. There needs to be some clarity as to what they stand for, and what they believe in. Having an unproven 22 year old in a posh frock show up to open a school or an orphanage is really not going to curry favour with the public. IMO, it is a far better bet to allow the York girls to develop independent careers for themselves, mature as individuals, find “themselves”, and if required in 10-15 years, start to gradually support the firm in causes they believe in. In my humble opinion, that might be a much better way forward for the girls and for the BRF.
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  #932  
Old 10-20-2011, 08:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
I have no problem with a more streamlined monarchy so long as the public and the organisations that have had royal support realise that that will no longer be possible so the little school in the rural countryside who would have had their library opened by the Duchess of Gloucester now has to settle for the local mayor's junior assistant instead. It is these people who will be missing out on the magic of royalty in their presence.

They'll also be missing out on much publicity, and most likely will fail to draw a crowd.
That, in turn, will result in a lack of future support and volunteers.
(I have the feeling that, even with fewer active royals, these organizations will expect to see business as usual).

I just hope the BRF is aware of the repercussions in their rush to streamline.
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  #933  
Old 10-20-2011, 09:29 AM
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I wouldn't wonder if Eugenie will lead a very different life from that of her mother when she finished her studies.So far she is more involved with her father's charities, even though she is still at the university.

She in addition seem to have chosen a more serious topic to study and even gone off to very unfashionable Newcastle to study politics beyond other things. It might well happen that she continues to do charity work but embarks parallely on her own career. Maybe even using Eugenie Mountbatten for a name.

I doubt her uncle Charles would mind if she even goes into politics - apart from her place in the succession there is nothing to stop her from standing for parliament one day. If she so chooses.
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  #934  
Old 10-20-2011, 01:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Kataryn View Post
I wouldn't wonder if Eugenie will lead a very different life from that of her mother when she finished her studies.So far she is more involved with her father's charities, even though she is still at the university.

She in addition seem to have chosen a more serious topic to study and even gone off to very unfashionable Newcastle to study politics beyond other things. It might well happen that she continues to do charity work but embarks parallely on her own career. Maybe even using Eugenie Mountbatten for a name.
Somewhere, a Geordie is planning your beating. lol

Eugenie, does seem the more serious of the two. A rather funny observation since shes supposed to be the wild one. Maybe it's that she simply has more of a mind of her own.


What's everyone's opinion on the Dave Clarke factor? For all the good things said about him, he seems a major difference between the sisters. The fact that Beatrice ended up with a well off guy with serious social connections, is that the reason for her slow approach to something serious after school?. While the marathon and the weight loss were a boon they, currently seem to be leading nowhere but catwalks and outings, normally with Dave at her side. The whole mni-mum thing could be more true than anyone suspects, if we apply Sarah's penchant for the good life.
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  #935  
Old 10-20-2011, 01:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by muriel

Once William & Harry have a few children each, B & E will be very easily down to about tenth in the succession line.

.
They might be pushed down the succession, but those children if they appear, will not do engagements until they're 18+, so we've got a big job gap there.
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  #936  
Old 10-20-2011, 02:02 PM
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I know that princess Eugenie is in school and princess Beatrice recently graduated but besides being students what do the two of them do?they are members of the BRF
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  #937  
Old 10-20-2011, 04:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Grandduchess24 View Post
I know that princess Eugenie is in school and princess Beatrice recently graduated but besides being students what do the two of them do?they are members of the BRF


Like William before them being a full-time student was all that was expected.

William had a gap year, followed by 4 years at uni during which time he did very little else, and then 6 months of more of internships before joining the army.

Beatrice has followed the same pattern except for doing a 3 year degree. She is supposed to be doing some internships - but we have no information about when she is to start them.

Eugenie is a fulltime student and as such not expected to be doing anything else although she has done a few engagements - as did Beatrice while they were studying fulltime at university.
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  #938  
Old 10-20-2011, 04:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by muriel View Post
Once William & Harry have a few children each, B & E will be very easily down to about tenth in the succession line.


Those children won't be doing royal duties full time though for another 30 years based on William's examply

Quote:
To me, it certainly seems clear that BP do not consider the York girls to play a central role in the BRF in the medium term. Two somewhat linked points to consider:
Quote:
· Appreciate the fact that there once the current crop of Kents and Gloucesters retire and HM & DoE pass away or reduce their engagements materially, there will be causes that will need royal support. Some of those charities may lose full time royal patronage, but I suspect a lot of that will be taken up by the Wales boys and their wives, and to some extent by Andrew, Edward, Sophie & Anne. The bigger "capacity" issue will arise when Anne, Andrew, Edward & Sophie start to reduce their workloads. At that stage, there could be a role for the York girls. That said, I suspect that stage is probably at least a decade, if not more, away.


That isn't an option to me - they shouldn't be told - go and get a job and a career for yourselves and then maybe in 10 - 15 years time we will need you to pick up the slack royal work (by then they will be in their mid-late 30s). If they aren't doing royal duties by then they won't be doing them at all.

Quote:
To me there is also the issue of the York girls being "ready" for them to be acceptable to these charities, and to the British public at large in a public role. These girls are very, very young, and need time to develop themselves as individuals. There needs to be some clarity as to what they stand for, and what they believe in. Having an unproven 22 year old in a posh frock show up to open a school or an orphanage is really not going to curry favour with the public. IMO, it is a far better bet to allow the York girls to develop independent careers for themselves, mature as individuals, find “themselves”, and if required in 10-15 years, start to gradually support the firm in causes they believe in. In my humble opinion, that might be a much better way forward for the girls and for the BRF.
Being an 'unproven' girl in a posh frock is exactly what happens e.g. Kate is unproven - she will be doing things like this for the simple reason she got married - she has achieved nothing much in her nearly 30 years and actually done less than Beatrice or Eugenie who are years younger than her but she is acceptable because she got married while the York girls, who have been raised with the expectation of what being in The Firm means aren't acceptable.

10 - 15 years from now there will only be 4 working royals under 50 - William, Kate, Harry and Harry's wife and most of them will be over 60 - simply too bad for the British situation as they have already made it clear that the York girls aren't wanted or needed - and that is both the public and the family. They can't expect the girls to simply change tack in 10 - 15 years time after they have built their own lives and now have to change them again - with the disruption that will cause to their own children as well.

Sorry - once it is confirmed that they won't be doing the royal round of openings etc then they can't change their minds and William and Kate will actually have to work as part of The Firm.
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  #939  
Old 10-21-2011, 04:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
[/FONT][/COLOR]
That isn't an option to me - they shouldn't be told - go and get a job and a career for yourselves and then maybe in 10 - 15 years time we will need you to pick up the slack royal work (by then they will be in their mid-late 30s). If they aren't doing royal duties by then they won't be doing them at all.
Why?

It probably works well for the girls as well. It allows them to have relatively normal lives, meet future partners, hve children, build careers, and as and when your King and country need you, you chip in to help out.


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Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
[/FONT][/COLOR]
......and William and Kate will actually have to work as part of The Firm.
Its just a question of how much time they can have to themselves, but W&K will certainly devote their lives to working as part of The Firm, irrespective of where things end up for B&E.

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Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
[/FONT][/COLOR]

Being an 'unproven' girl in a posh frock is exactly what happens e.g. Kate is unproven - she will be doing things like this for the simple reason she got married - she has achieved nothing much in her nearly 30 years and actually done less than Beatrice or Eugenie who are years younger than her but she is acceptable because she got married while the York girls, who have been raised with the expectation of what being in The Firm means aren't acceptable.

10 - 15 years from now there will only be 4 working royals under 50 - William, Kate, Harry and Harry's wife and most of them will be over 60 - simply too bad for the British situation as they have already made it clear that the York girls aren't wanted or needed - and that is both the public and the family. They can't expect the girls to simply change tack in 10 - 15 years time after they have built their own lives and now have to change them again - with the disruption that will cause to their own children as well.
I accept that Kate in the unproven girl, but she is also the future Queen. The weight of the BRF and public opinion are behind her, and she certainly appears to be giving great thought to the causes she is going to support.

There really does not apppear to be public support at the moment in the UK for junior royals outside the "main" line to enter public life.

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Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
[/FONT][/COLOR]


10 - 15 years from now there will only be 4 working royals under 50 - William, Kate, Harry and Harry's wife and most of them will be over 60 - simply too bad for the British situation as they have already made it clear that the York girls aren't wanted or needed - and that is both the public and the family. They can't expect the girls to simply change tack in 10 - 15 years time after they have built their own lives and now have to change them again - with the disruption that will cause to their own children as well.
Please see my thoughts on "capacity" in post 931 reposted below.

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Appreciate the fact that there once the current crop of Kents and Gloucesters retire and HM & DoE pass away or reduce their engagements materially, there will be causes that will need royal support. Some of those charities may lose full time royal patronage, but I suspect a lot of that will be taken up by the Wales boys and their wives, and to some extent by Andrew, Edward, Sophie & Anne. The bigger "capacity" issue will arise when Anne, Andrew, Edward & Sophie start to reduce their workloads. At that stage, there could be a role for the York girls. That said, I suspect that stage is probably at least a decade, if not more, away.
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  #940  
Old 10-21-2011, 04:28 AM
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Why?

It probably works well for the girls as well. It allows them to have relatively normal lives, meet future partners, hve children, build careers, and as and when your King and country need you, you chip in to help out.
I know how I would feel having been told in my early 20s - you aren't wanted or needed as part of the family business so I build a life for myself, a career on my own merits and then I am told - give up what you have built for yourself because we now need you. I know what I would say - you handle the mess you created for yourselves when you rejected our offers to help 10 - 15 years ago as I/We have made our lives away from you and yours.

Sorry not fair on the girls.

If they aren't wanted now then they have to be fair to them and let them build their lives and not expect them to have to give up their lives at some future time because now they are suddenly wanted after have been rejected earlier.
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