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  #801  
Old 07-28-2011, 06:58 PM
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Or does working royal mean a charity patron? A rep of the RF?
If the Queen objected to that I'd be shocked.
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  #802  
Old 07-28-2011, 07:30 PM
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Originally Posted by nascarlucy View Post
I read where Prince Andrew had asked the Queen for a request to have Beatrice be a working royal and the Queen turned him down. Does that mean that she will not be able to have a job or a job that pays. I'm assuming the term working royal means the person has some type of job and would get paid like anyone else doing a similiar job.

I think the Queen will protect the interests of Prince Andrew's daughters. They will not be left out in the cold.

May I ask where you read that Andrew had asked this and been turned down?

I have read numerous times this year that both Beatrice and Eugenie have been told that they won't be working royals - partly because of Andrew's woes and partly because of the demand, as much by the public as anything else - but I haven't read anywhere that Andrew actually asked this of the Queen and she said 'no'. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...rade-role.html

Charles has been advocating for years a smaller royal family - really consisting of the monarch and the monarch's children and only the children of the future monarch - so no royal duties for Harry's kids either but William's kids will be called on to take up the task.

Working royals are those that do royal duties for a living e.g. Princess Anne.

Other members of the royal family e.g. Peter Philips have 'real' jobs in the sense that they go to somewhere and get paid by someone other than the Queen or the state to turn up and wave and open a building etc.

Usually the only real paid work royals have done has been in the military but the reports are that Princesses Beatrice and Eugenie are going to have to actually work for a living rather than rely on the monarch for support.
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  #803  
Old 07-28-2011, 07:37 PM
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Isn't Beatrice graduating this summer? Any word on what she is planning to do?
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  #804  
Old 07-28-2011, 07:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Dymphna View Post
Isn't Beatrice graduating this summer? Any word on what she is planning to do?

Yes - I believe she will have her graduation ceremony on the 11th September (or maybe the 9th).

The only thing I have read about her workwise is that she would like to get involved in fashion but given her taste she would be a disaster.
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  #805  
Old 07-28-2011, 07:42 PM
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Oh, that's right. I remember reading that. I know how tough it is, sometimes, to figure out what you want to do after college. I wish her well. She's got some challenges ahead of her.
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  #806  
Old 07-28-2011, 07:59 PM
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This was originally posted by PrincessKaimi.

It seems the Queen is set on the two legitimate princesses having jobs - and refused Andrew's request for Beatrice to be a working royal and follow in Andrew's footsteps - doubtful there's enough in that particular pie to be liberally distributed to other kids (as opposed to back in the days of the Plantagenets, Tudors or Stuarts).[/QUOTE]

To answer your question Iluvbertie This was posted by PrincessKaimi #77 on the Out of Wedlock Children of royals segiment. I've only quoted the part that made me think that the Queen refused Prince Andrew's request to have Beatrice a working royal.
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  #807  
Old 07-28-2011, 08:44 PM
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I can see why if they worked for the RF under the Queen it would be harder for Charles to do his own plans. Peter Phillips and Zara both got work so I can't see why if should be too hard for Beatrice and Eugenie. As long as it is something they can do and Beatrice and fashion are just not a good idea. Since school ended she has had some time to work out what she wants to do so we should hear something soon. In the end it has been the Queens decision and I think many factors were taken into consideration. I think it will be good for them to be out in the real world and not relying on the Queen for their lifestyle. Princess Margarets children also had to get jobs so it isn't anything new but they will need to be careful with what they choose to do.
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  #808  
Old 07-28-2011, 10:00 PM
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I don't think this will be an issue for the foreseeable future but isn't there going to come a time when a couple of pairs of extra hands would come in handy for the royal family? Right now there's no shortage of adult, working royals but what about, say, twenty years from now? The queen and DoE will be gone. Their children - Charles and his siblings - will be elderly and could potentially not be able to handle a significant workload. William and Catherine, and I guess Harry, will be working full out, but they won't have adult children yet and presumably the next generation of royals will follow in their parents' footsteps and be well into adulthood before taking on full time royal duties, (William's still not a full time royal and he's almost 30). Unless more people are brought into the firm there are going to be a huge number of charities, etc. that will lose their royal patronages and connections, which I think would be a shame.
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  #809  
Old 07-28-2011, 10:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Meadow View Post
I can see why if they worked for the RF under the Queen it would be harder for Charles to do his own plans. Peter Phillips and Zara both got work so I can't see why if should be too hard for Beatrice and Eugenie. As long as it is something they can do and Beatrice and fashion are just not a good idea. Since school ended she has had some time to work out what she wants to do so we should hear something soon. In the end it has been the Queens decision and I think many factors were taken into consideration. I think it will be good for them to be out in the real world and not relying on the Queen for their lifestyle. Princess Margarets children also had to get jobs so it isn't anything new but they will need to be careful with what they choose to do.

I don't see why they need to be 'careful' at all.

If they want to get a job as strippers then that is their choice and the family will have to live with that seeing as they don't appear to won't them working for the family.

It will mean fewer tours of course by minor royals and a lot more work for Kate in the future as the only working female in that generation, at least until Harry marries and that could easily be a decade or so away.
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  #810  
Old 07-28-2011, 10:16 PM
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Working royal means that she would be performing official royal duties.

By turning down Andrew's request, the Queen basically said Beatrice and Eugenie will have to earn their own living and will not be getting money from the British tax payer.
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  #811  
Old 07-28-2011, 10:17 PM
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Just because Beatrice has had a several fashion mishaps that doesn't mean she'd be terrible at working in the industry. There are fashion editors, celebrities and so called fashionistas out there that have worn worst outfits than Beatrice. She can work in the marketing/PR, finance or human resources departments for the fashion houses. She can work as an editorial assistant, photographers assistant, buyer at Jigsaw or work at a modeling agency. If she wanted, she can work as a party planner with Pippa.

It won't be hard for her for her to find a job as she is the Queen's granddaughter, the heir's niece and the heir's heir cousin.

Whatever career path she chooses, she will be fine.
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  #812  
Old 07-28-2011, 10:48 PM
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Originally Posted by cmkrcwi View Post
Working royal means that she would be performing official royal duties.

By turning down Andrew's request, the Queen basically said Beatrice and Eugenie will have to earn their own living and will not be getting money from the British tax payer.

As only two 'working royals' get money from the British taxpayer now that is a non-issue.

The taxpayers only give money to the Queen and Philip.

The rest get reimbursed for expenses incurred in the carrying our of official duties on behalf of the government e.g. Andrew when going abroad for his former job with International Trade then that expense would be paid by the government. If he goes abroad in support of a charity then either he or the charity pays the expenses.

The Queen also reimburses the government for monies paid to the members of the family from the former Civil List set up - up to 1992 most members of the family were paid from the government simply for being royal but after 1992 the Queen took to repaying the government these expenses - it was easier than passing new legislation for each member of the family.

In the future there will only be the monarch and spouse and surviving spouses of monarchs receiving monies and the rest will have to fend for themselves or the monarch will have to support them and Charles doesn't want to have to support the extras in the extended family - such as his mother's first cousins who are currently supported by the Queen and his siblings. I am sure that he will continue to do so but he is cutting the umbilical cord for future generations of his descendents and not loading them with that responsiblity so that for instance William's grandchild, when monarch won't have to support an aging Beatrice or Eugenie just because they have always been supported. By cutting it out now when they are early 20s they can make their own way in life.
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  #813  
Old 07-28-2011, 10:55 PM
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These are my thoughts as well. In 20 years, Prince Charles will be 83 and Camilla will be a bit older, I believe. The Princess Royal will be 81. Prince Andrew will be 71 and Prince Edward will be 67. William and Kate will be getting very close to 50 and their oldest children--assuming they start a family soon--will be in university. There's going to be a need for a couple of extra hands to help while William and Harry's children are growing up, at least during the period from 10 to 20 years from now. If the health of the Duke of Kent and Princess Alexandra are good, they'll be able to do things for awhile yet, as will the Gloucesters.


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Originally Posted by camelot23ca View Post
Unless more people are brought into the firm there are going to be a huge number of charities, etc. that will lose their royal patronages and connections, which I think would be a shame.
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  #814  
Old 07-29-2011, 10:43 AM
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Aren't most European monarchies made up of the monarch and their immediate family? Charles knows that his mother's death will bring a lot to bear on the firm (including a commonwealth that will likely shrink). His first job is to make sure that it survives so, if all this is true, he's trying to cut it down to the bare basics and if some charities take a hit then so be it. It's rough but he's going to do what he needs to do. That and we know his favorite charities won't be the ones to suffer.
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  #815  
Old 07-29-2011, 11:11 AM
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If in 10 to 15 Years time, there is a need for "working" royals, B & E and the children of other Siblings could very well do jump in and get paid for that.

Now they are young, and can pick up a profession - which will do them good, and get a grip on live. Later on, maybe they are married, having kids, they can start some with some charities and do royal duties. And if they prefer privat live, they don't have to do anything royal at all.

The other way round is much harder: starting as working royal - and later having to fend for themselves.
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  #816  
Old 07-29-2011, 11:18 AM
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We go thru this discussion every couple of months.

It has been reported that Beatrice and Eugenie will not be working members of the Firm upon their graduation from college but really whose to say that will always be the case?

We hear that Charles wants to reduce the size of the royal family but he really doesn't have to do anything to do that as the size of the royal family because the natural order of life will decrease the size of the family. In the next five, ten, twenty years or so....the Queen, the DoE, the Duke of Kent, Princess Alexandra can all be gone. The Gloucesters, Anne, Edward, Sophie and Andrew will carry on. And William, Harry (and a future wife) and Kate will pick up more patronages. I don't include Charles because his work load will automatically increase and really Camilla will continue to support Charles.

Charles wont' do anything IMO with Beatrice and Eugenie's HRH because that calls into question the HRH status of Harry's future children. Plus the HRH title will not continue with their children so ends the HRH's for the current York line.

So with the natural order of life, the decrease in the working members of the royal family, and some good work experience....I see the possibility of Beatrice and Eugenie picking up some royal engagements in the future. Right now there is no need, but who knows what the next twenty years will bring.
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  #817  
Old 07-29-2011, 08:07 PM
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Originally Posted by sliver_bic View Post
Aren't most European monarchies made up of the monarch and their immediate family? Charles knows that his mother's death will bring a lot to bear on the firm (including a commonwealth that will likely shrink). His first job is to make sure that it survives so, if all this is true, he's trying to cut it down to the bare basics and if some charities take a hit then so be it. It's rough but he's going to do what he needs to do. That and we know his favorite charities won't be the ones to suffer.

Why do you think the Commonwealth will shrink?

It has actually increased membership over the last decade or so adding a couple of countries with no ties to Britain as a colonial master.

I do see more of the small number of countries of the Commonwealth who have the monarch of GB as their monarch becoming republics but that won't affect the Commonwealth at all, unless the existing members decide not to allow them to stay once they become republics. Countries with the Queen as Head of State are automatically members but if they vote to become a republic then they have to effectively apply for a continuation of membership and no country that has become a republic has been refused that application - it is more a formal acknowledgement that their automatic status has changed and that is all.

It seems to me that many people confuse the Commonwealth with the Queen's position as Queen of 16 countries of the Commonwealth. They are two separate situations. She is Queen of about 1/3 of the countries of the Commonwealth and that will change when she goes but the number of countries in the Commonwealth shouldn't see any change unless the other countries vote to suspend membership - e.g. Fiji and Pakistan have both had periods of time being suspended or a country decided to leave because it no longer sees any benefit in membership. Meanwhile some other countries could apply for membership and be accepted.

Most Australians I know only think of the Commonwealth Games and don't see any other role for Australia in that anyway.
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Old 07-29-2011, 08:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Nice Nofret View Post
If in 10 to 15 Years time, there is a need for "working" royals, B & E and the children of other Siblings could very well do jump in and get paid for that.

Now they are young, and can pick up a profession - which will do them good, and get a grip on live. Later on, maybe they are married, having kids, they can start some with some charities and do royal duties. And if they prefer privat live, they don't have to do anything royal at all.

The other way round is much harder: starting as working royal - and later having to fend for themselves.

I think this is wrong thinking. I think once they have a personal career it will be much harder to give up that for the royal circuit.

Whatever the long term intention is the family will have to live with the decisions made now - either the girls will work full-time from their early 20s for the Firm or not but Charles or William can't suddenly turn around in 20 years time and say - 'you have to give up your successful job and satisfying career to live your life doing the royal work we told you we didn't need you for years ago'.

Sorry - not fair to the girls to expect that to happen and it would be much harder I think to go from living a private life with a job and career and family set up for a quitem, private existence to then by put into the public life because the forward thinking decisions were wrong now.

I don't think they are wrong by the way.

Charles isn't stupid - he knows that the public don't really want the extras and the costs involved e.g. security when on public duties. He also knows that he would have to support them but also that he would be committing William to supporting them in an appropriate manner for the rest of their lives in the way that the Queen does now with her cousins.

Better to say - as the Gloucesters and Kents retire/die and as the present Queen's children also age and cut back that the public has to get used to not having a royal be the patrons and turn up to open every hospital wing etc.
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Old 07-29-2011, 08:21 PM
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Originally Posted by HRH Princess Sonya View Post
I really can't see how both girls won't be used for royal duties if they choose to do so. They are their own people despite who their mother is and it is not fair they they be punished for that. Not implying that Charles is heartless a smaller monarchy really doesn't matter to him as his kids future is already set so in a sense of saying that's no skin off his nose on that point. It's his brother's & sister's children who have to find a role in their future. However the truth of the matter is the current royal family is getting older and royal duties for older members of the BRF will decline more & more as time passes. I read somewhere since Will & Kate's wedding that interest in the BRF has increased so I would the royal duties from added interest will increase. Consider how old Charles could be by the time he becomes King. So I don't see how it would be wise two exclude two people who have the HRH already if they are willing to do the work......Just my thoughts.

Who is to pay them?

That is a crux of the issue. Currently the Queen repays to the government the moneys paid to the Gloucesters and Kents and Anne and Andrew but the situation changed financially for the family in 1992.

Until 1992 all HRHs effectively were paid by the government, through the Civil List for basically being royal but since then the Queen has had to support the extended family members as well as her own.

Charles and William would have to continue that into the future but...if Beatrice and Eugenie had their own careers then they would be able to support themselves, which is what the family now wants.

Bad luck for the charities that have come to expect a royal patron but so be it.

This is a consequence of the bad years of the early 90s when the concept of a 'royal family' was destroyed in many minds and the public became much more critical of the family and way more conscious of the costs of the royal family and actually question a need for anyone other than the monarch, heir and possibly the heir's heir and their respective spouses. When the 4th in line is described as minor royal you can see that the ideas have changed. Before the 1990s the cousins were the minor royals now it is the younger children of the monarch. In 15 or so years Harry will be relegated to minor royal status.
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Old 07-29-2011, 08:31 PM
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It does not mean that she can't have a job that pays (quite the opposite - although I can see how you would take it that way). A working royal is one that the Queen pays to do royal tasks. Instead, the Queen has requested that the two princesses get regular jobs and stay off her payroll. Someone else might put it differently, that's the succinct version.

The Queen has no intention of laying out more "protection" (money) in that direction - she helps out Andrew to quite a stiff tune, he needs to find a way to support his daughters (if they can't be indepdent). The Queen has no intention of supporting all her grandchildren - nor should see, for when she is gone, the new King will not have to support any of this batch at all, unless he wishes to (and he'll have his own children and grandchildren to think about).

If Andrew had invested wisely, he could do just fine on his own (supporting his kids included - but as to grandkids - I doubt he could maintain the current lifestyle Sarah and the girls have - no more posh summer vacations upon request, perhaps).
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