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  #701  
Old 05-06-2011, 10:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Duchess of Darwin View Post
I think it's partly because of who their parents are, and partly because of their gender, but I'm not certain. As for what I can see happening, I can see them picking up some duties as the older generation slows down. To anyone who wonders what they're going to do until then, their education will allow them to get some work. I really don't see how there can be no future for Beatrice and Eugenie, in The Royal Family. They got their Coats of Arms at the same age some people thought they were going to be demoted, and they can't pass on their HRHs, so it's not as if keeping them will make the Family too large. People were disgusted with William's and Harry's behaviour, but their futures weren't in doubt like this. It's not enough to say that they are further up The Line of Succession. William and Henry are second and third respectively, Beatrice and Eugenie are fifth and sixth respectively, and although William's positon is secure, Harry will get moved down in the same way The York Princesses will. Why the towards the idea of Beatrice and Eugenie being working Royals? Is there something I'm missing here?
William and Harry are in the first line and, more importatnly, are the sons of Diana Spencer. That's why so many people are suddenly so enthralled with Kate, imo, they want to see Diana's boy happy so all the unnecessary comparisons between Kate and Diana come up. And for all the talk about Kate being launched, she's already said it'll be two years.

Bea and Eugenie are the children of the second son, a man considered an embarrassment along with his ex-wife. It's less to do with them being female, consider Anne's reputation compared to her brothers, and more guilt by association. Unfortunate and unfair but it's how it works.
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  #702  
Old 05-06-2011, 10:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Duchess of Darwin View Post
I'm another person on here who thinks The York Princesses can't win.

If they take on a lot of Royal duties, they'll be acting more important than they really are, and stealing opportunities from Catherine.

If they they forge their own careers, they'll be depending on their titles, and accomplishing nothing based on their merits.

If they enlist in defence positions, they'll only be interested in how many honours they can boast.

If they focus on marraige and motherhood, they'll be lazy, and have no sense of Royal duty.

If they assist the Family in a more private way (such as archiving) they'll be reclusive.

I think it's partly because of who their parents are, and partly because of their gender, but I'm not certain. As for what I can see happening, I can see them picking up some duties as the older generation slows down. To anyone who wonders what they're going to do until then, their education will allow them to get some work. I really don't see how there can be no future for Beatrice and Eugenie, in The Royal Family. They got their Coats of Arms at the same age some people thought they were going to be demoted, and they can't pass on their HRHs, so it's not as if keeping them will make the Family too large. People were disgusted with William's and Harry's behaviour, but their futures weren't in doubt like this. It's not enough to say that they are further up The Line of Succession. William and Henry are second and third respectively, Beatrice and Eugenie are fifth and sixth respectively, and although William's positon is secure, Harry will get moved down in the same way The York Princesses will. Why the towards the idea of Beatrice and Eugenie being working Royals? Is there something I'm missing here?
It really depends on what "independent" careers the girls decide to pursue. If it is modelling, they could be open to criticism. Other careers, probably less so.
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  #703  
Old 05-06-2011, 01:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Duchess of Darwin View Post
I'm another person on here who thinks The York Princesses can't win.

If they take on a lot of Royal duties, they'll be acting more important than they really are, and stealing opportunities from Catherine.

If they they forge their own careers, they'll be depending on their titles, and accomplishing nothing based on their merits.

If they enlist in defence positions, they'll only be interested in how many honours they can boast.

If they focus on marraige and motherhood, they'll be lazy, and have no sense of Royal duty.

If they assist the Family in a more private way (such as archiving) they'll be reclusive.

I think it's partly because of who their parents are, and partly because of their gender, but I'm not certain. As for what I can see happening, I can see them picking up some duties as the older generation slows down. To anyone who wonders what they're going to do until then, their education will allow them to get some work. I really don't see how there can be no future for Beatrice and Eugenie, in The Royal Family. They got their Coats of Arms at the same age some people thought they were going to be demoted, and they can't pass on their HRHs, so it's not as if keeping them will make the Family too large. People were disgusted with William's and Harry's behaviour, but their futures weren't in doubt like this. It's not enough to say that they are further up The Line of Succession. William and Henry are second and third respectively, Beatrice and Eugenie are fifth and sixth respectively, and although William's positon is secure, Harry will get moved down in the same way The York Princesses will. Why the towards the idea of Beatrice and Eugenie being working Royals? Is there something I'm missing here?

I'm in total agreement with everything you have stated. It's unfortunate that the York Princesses are harshly criticised no mater what they do and no matter what they will decide to do with their futures. It's obvious that the York Princesses are never given a fair shake by the media and others because of the terrible mistakes that their parents have made over the years. I really hope that whatever lies ahead (future roles in the Royal Family or careers of their own, etc.) that the York Princesses will have true fulfillment, accomplishment, and more importantly happiness in their lives. I'm rooting for them!
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  #704  
Old 05-06-2011, 01:55 PM
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One of the issues with B and E is that they don't appear to do anything other than party and go to school. Even W and H do more charity work. I know some people think that it is enough but they are becoming irrelevant as a result. They are also far down the line. Granted 5th and 6th do not seem like much but in the age were the royal family is being asked to get smaller it seems a bit excessive. I also think that people don't know anything substantial about them. They don't really give serious interviews talking about the causes they care about.

The media is also obsessed with appearances and given their fashion missteps it makes it worse. It is the unfortunate double-standard of being a women. They also must understand it because why else would they spend a lot of money on designers like Valentino or Vivene Westwood only to have the outfit get panned.

They either try to hard or not enough.
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  #705  
Old 05-06-2011, 02:48 PM
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Originally Posted by jemagre View Post
One of the issues with B and E is that they don't appear to do anything other than party and go to school. Even W and H do more charity work.
And what did the Wales boys do during University?
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  #706  
Old 05-06-2011, 02:56 PM
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It will be interesting to see what Beatrice does with her degree in history - I agree she can't go straight to the Royal Archives, except in an entry level position. She should think about working abroad for awhile, since it doesn't seem she's about to becoming a working Royal.

I do wonder if she feels she has to work at all, given the extravagance of her overall lifestyle. But I wonder if Prince Andrew can actually maintain the support of these two girls at the level they seem to be accustomed to, until the end of his life - and what then?

I would think that perhaps finding a well-off husband would be on Beatrice's agenda, although at our house we think she comes off as very young for her stated age, and doesn't seem ready to enter an adult relationship yet.

I think I read it here on TRF that Prince Andrew had wanted to get her started in a bit of royal work, but that was before his most recent set of scandals/problems.
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  #707  
Old 05-06-2011, 06:04 PM
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We don't know what happened during William's time in university because there was an agreement with the press to leave him alone while he was at St. Andrews. Harry didn't go to university; he went to military school.


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Originally Posted by sliver_bic View Post
And what did the Wales boys do during University?
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  #708  
Old 05-06-2011, 11:30 PM
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Thanks for all the quotes

I remain convinced that bashing of Beatrice and Eugenie is partly due to gender, but I think that it's mostly because of who their Parents are Anne might have spent alot of her time at derbies, in her early twenties, and she might dress like an 80's party clown, but she was given a chance to carve herself a niche as a hard worker because she is The Queen's Daughter.

As for how the Sisters come across at the moment, I have to admit that they do give off an air of irrelevence, but its not that they are becoming irrelevent, but that they are yet to aquire any relevence. They are at a difficult age; too old to be approached neutrally as children, but too young to have their adult roles in full swing. Some may ask how long they need, but the fact is that they are so closely followed that a year feels like five. The York Princesses do party, but you're only young once, and it doesn't appear to be affecting their studies. Their charity work (not yet as much as the average Royal does) and their University courses, are enough, given their ages.

On the subject of the future, I know that Beatrice's role in The Royal Family hasn't been talked about much lately, but lets keep in mind the wedding that has just happened. If Beatrice's future were to be talked about at the moment there would be an explosion of chit-chat along the lines of "Does Bea have it in for Kate?" and "Palace cat fight - Bea's plans to overshadow Kate!" It would be a bad idea to launch Beatrice with a lot of fanfare, particularly given the messes her parents have found themsleves in recently, so we can't just say that the lack of news at the moment means a future as Lady Beatrice for her.
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  #709  
Old 05-06-2011, 11:38 PM
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Originally Posted by jemagre View Post
One of the issues with B and E is that they don't appear to do anything other than party and go to school. Even W and H do more charity work.
How much charity work did William do during his time at uni?

How many times was he at nightclubs and/or pubs during that time? - We don't know because of the press agreement.

Quote:
I know some people think that it is enough but they are becoming irrelevant as a result. They are also far down the line. Granted 5th and 6th do not seem like much but in the age were the royal family is being asked to get smaller it seems a bit excessive.
Of course unless the present Queen lives at least another 22 years Beatrice will have to spend some time as a Counsellor of State - when Charles becomes King she will be the 4th adult over 21 in line to the throne and thus a CoS. If both Charles and William die in that time period then Eugenie will also have to serve. Down aways but still with a role to play.

Quote:
I also think that people don't know anything substantial about them. They don't really give serious interviews talking about the causes they care about.
Given the way the press have reported on them do you wonder why they don't give interviews. Even when Beatrice ran in the Marathon to raise money for charity the press were on about the cost of the security for her to run. When she does go to a charity function it is all about her clothes and again the cost of security and nothing about the cause that she is supporting.

Quote:
The media is also obsessed with appearances and given their fashion missteps it makes it worse. It is the unfortunate double-standard of being a women. They also must understand it because why else would they spend a lot of money on designers like Valentino or Vivene Westwood only to have the outfit get panned.

They either try to hard or not enough.
They are young and have been trying to grow up in the full glare of the public - a public that have already written them off as 'a waste of space' 'spoungers' 'bludgers' and of course being hated Andrew and despised Sarah's children gives them no chance of positive press - whereas sainted Diana's sons can do virtually no wrong.

I think the best things the girls can do is find themselves some sort of career overseas and let William and Harry do all the work - it will also suit William and Harry who I don't think are really that close to them.
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  #710  
Old 05-06-2011, 11:38 PM
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I just posted an article here about the Yorks - their security and future roles. It disappeared, but according to tomorrow's DM: "The Queen has made it clear that she expects the princesses to pursue their own careers after university, rather than go on the Civil List as working members of the Royal Family." One courtier said: "The princesses will pursue their own careers and have no formal role within the Royal Family."
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  #711  
Old 05-06-2011, 11:59 PM
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I'm suspicious of this article because it mentioned the Civil List. Even if the York princesses were to do royal duties, they likely wouldn't get civil list payments. Only the most "senior" royals get it now: The Queen and the Duke of Edinburgh.


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Originally Posted by jdcharlie View Post
It disappeared, but according to tomorrow's DM: "The Queen has made it clear that she expects the princesses to pursue their own careers after university, rather than go on the Civil List as working members of the Royal Family."
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  #712  
Old 05-07-2011, 12:02 AM
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Beatrice and Eugenie stripped of 24-hour protection after row over £50,000 cost | Mail Online

Here is the link

They are to lose their security and the Queen says they are to pursue their own careers and not be working royals.

Good luck girls.

This will also mean that as the older royals slow down William, Kate and Harry and Spouse will have to pick up the slack.

One thing I found interesting in the DM article was the following:

The cost of guarding Eugenie, 21, in her first year at Newcastle University has been estimated at £250,000 a year. It includes salaries, accommodation and living and travel expenses of two full-time bodyguards.

If you compare it with the following:


http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle7149076.ece

The cost of guarding Eugenie, 20, in her first year at Newcastle University has been conservatively estimated at £250,000 a year. That includes the salaries, accommodation, living and travel expenses of two full-time bodyguards.

The Telegraph article was written in June 2010 while the DM article was written on the 7th May - and is clearly plagiarising the original Telegraph article but it does raise the following question:

How accurate is the DM? If the Telegraph reported this story nearly a year ago and nothing happened then and the DM simply copied from the Telegraph article without actually updating all the information e.g. Eugenie is now in her 2nd year at uni (to be far the DM did update the next sentence about Beatrice from studying 'in London' to studying at the 'University of London' - which she is doing now - having moved from Goldsmiths and got Eugenie's age right) is the story to be believed?

I think this time it might be right in parts. I do think that the Queen may very well have told the girls that they have to carve out their own careers - as has been reported over the last month or so in other publications - as a result of Andrew and the peadophile and with Charles' support.

Both headlines - June 2010 and May 2011 - say 'are stripped' of the security and yet after the report from June 2010 they still had security in May 2011.


And of course the DM has the major error of suggesting if they did royal duties they would be on the Civil List considering that only the Queen and DoE are on that List.
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  #713  
Old 05-07-2011, 12:49 AM
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The comment about the Civil List may have been made to ensure that the public knows that no "taxpayer support" is going to go to B and E. Up until a few years ago, the Civil List supported a number of royals and minor royals and many may not be aware of the subsequent changes.
I'm sure the Queen and Pr. Charles are anxious that public funding be kept to a minimum. Pr. Charles receives nothing from the Civil List and the staffing for all of his many, many initiatives are paid from the Duchy of Cornwall and (I think...) Lancaster funds. At least his initiatives are intended for the good of all the people (even if I don't agree with some of them, I give him credit for seeking to do good in large and important ways. And some, like the Duchy Originals, are self-supporting). The Queen subsidizes out of personal funds the activities of other royals and minor royals who make appearances on her behalf (e.g., Pr. Anne, Sophie and Edward, Alexander, the Ds of Gloucester and Kent, Pr. Michael, etc.). The question of money and public funding is complicated...

And poor B. and E. need some image consulting. They are doing themselves no favors, and apparently are not getting the kind of guidance they need. They are young women and as such are held to a higher standard of behavior than their male cousins Harry and Wm, and I think it has little to do with the fact that they are Diana's sons...

Fair or not, girls/women will always be judged more harshly for being photographed "falling out of Boujis drunk." I'll bet they are pretty sweet kids, which makes it doubly hard. But perception is everything in our TV/tabloid/paparazzi era, and they must learn to accept that.
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  #714  
Old 05-07-2011, 01:26 AM
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I have no problem with the concept of Beatrice & Eugenie forging their own carrers, but it would make my blood boil if it were to be forced on the account of Andrew's friendship with the sex offender. What did that have to do with B & E at all, apart from the fact that they are Andrew's Daughters? They are not Andrew, and they are not Sarah either. People need to see them as the Princesses Beatrice Elizabeth Mary and Eugenie Victoria Helena It's not their fault that their Parents are so lacking in common sense. They've never done anthing worse than look as if they've had one shot too many, dress how Lady Gaga would if she wanted to bring Dame Edna to mind, and wear unflattering bikinis This is exactly the sort of inherited hatred that so many users on here are talking about.

As for security, I don't believe for a second that Andrew or Sarah would want anything bad to happen to their Daughters, but they are at risk due to their poor images, and that's not even mentioning all the political Movements which pose a threat to them. If anything happens to either of these unestablished but decent young Women, it will be on the protesters' heads.

Sorry to but it's something I feel strongly about.
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  #715  
Old 05-07-2011, 02:53 AM
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I don't think it has much to do with the sex offender - it seems the Queen has been mulling over their role for some time. She might change her mind in the future.

But if the two princesses want to be seen as working royals (and get all the perogatives), they should probably just start doing some royal work - on their own. Give a few interviews, do some charity fashion show attendance (not runway walking please), things like that. Establish a royal image, get themselves situated to take on some of their father's work.

I do think their gender is against them when it comes to things like Andrew's request to have Beatrice start accompanying him on some of his North African trips (this was before the current trouble there, I believe - correct me if I'm wrong).

It would be hard to envision Princess Beatrice meeting with North African or Middle Eastern oil producing nation leaders.
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  #716  
Old 05-07-2011, 04:13 AM
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Why have their roles been mulled over? I know about the planned downsizing, but they are Princesses already. What lessened the possibility of them having formal roles in The Royal Family?
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  #717  
Old 05-07-2011, 06:19 AM
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It is unfortunate that they have such wrecks for parents, unfortunately these are the people who have raised them and are clearly not giving them any guidance currently as to how to appear/behave in public. No surprise, since neither Sarah or Andrew have managed their own public images very well, and they exhibit ongoing bad judgement at an age when they should long ago have wised up. As things are, the princesses are not an asset to the BRF, and no one is helping them learn how to be an asset.
Their father seems to think being born HRH should be enough, and their mother doesn't seem to think at all. It's amazing they've turned out as well as they have.
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  #718  
Old 05-07-2011, 07:20 AM
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Agreed. The poor girls are not assetts.

They have a frivolous looking dress sense, thanks to Sarah, a complacence about public opinion thanks to Andrew, and an inability to properly address criticism thanks to both.

It's awful because they have the ability to be assetts They don't have muffins where their brains should be, like their Mother does, or a complete lack of presence, like their Father does. They both combine the positive traits. The problem is that the negative ones mentioned above get in the way.
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  #719  
Old 05-07-2011, 11:36 AM
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They have done some charity appearances e.g. fashion shows - one where they were asked to give up their seats to Kate Middleton (who was only the girlfriend at the time and Pippa who was attending with Kate).

Beatrice ran the London Marathon for charity - and still got criticised - due to cost of security etc.

It doesn't matter what they do they will be condemned.

They are only 21 and 22 and yet are already condemned to worthless status by the majority of the public and the press. The public can't even get it through their heads that these girls are full time university students, which is why they currently don't work.

The problems confronting them in the future though are what careers they can follow? No matter what they do they will be accused of getting their position because of their titles not their ability, of taking the job of someone more worthy and more in need etc.

They are in a no win situation.

Having security removed also should mean that the press will have less to complain about but that should also mean that the girls can have some comeback about press invasion into their private activities - if they aren't costing the taxpayers anything and are simply rich kids who also earn their own living then the press should be forced to leave them alone and only report their attendance at things like Trooping the Colour.
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  #720  
Old 05-07-2011, 03:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Duchess of Darwin View Post
Agreed. The poor girls are not assetts.

They have a frivolous looking dress sense, thanks to Sarah, a complacence about public opinion thanks to Andrew, and an inability to properly address criticism thanks to both.
Right - I think that makes sense. Sarah has no dress sense, Andrew believes in letting the criticism roll over him, and both parents probably dote on their daughters and tell them they're loved just the way they are (and I bet even their Granny does, to an extent), so they don't think they need to change.

I agree that they're in a no-win situation, but I really think it's best if Beatrice and Eugenie have careers instead of performing royal duties. If they work for the royal family, they will always be compared to Kate, and the comparisons will always be unfavourable. If they're not criticized for their dress sense, they'll be criticized because of their parents, and if it's not because of that, it will be for unfortunate aspects of their physical appearance - Beatrice can't keep her mouth shut, Eugenie has wide hips, etc.

And if it's not that, it will be "Kate is our future Queen, but these girls are useless hangers-on." People don't understand that Beatrice and Eugenie are fifth and sixth in line to the throne. Even if William and Kate have two children, Beatrice and Eugenie will still be seventh and eighth...maybe even go back up to sixth and seventh if the Queen dies before Harry has children. That is fairly high up, but people don't accept that.

People also don't bother reading in depth about the royals - they draw conclusions from pictures and captions. On the day of the royal wedding, when Beatrice and Eugenie showed up on TV, my Mom said, "I hear they're a handful." Me: "Why?" Mom: "Oh, I read it in a magazine at the hairdressers." What does it mean that Beatrice and Eugenie are "a handful"? That they have bad dress sense? That they sometimes exit night clubs looking the worse for wear? The thing is, even those occasions are sporadic. Eugenie may be a bit wilder than Beatrice, but in general, the girls haven't been in much real trouble. I can't remember too many occasions when Beatrice has come out of a nightclub looking drunk; sometimes she just looks tired. So her only crime is not to dress well, and to have goggly eyes and a big mouth - but crimes of physical appearance are the ones that matter most if you are in the public eye.

Which leads to my conclusion that they should get jobs for themselves and retreat from the public eye. They will never turn the tide of public opinion now that Kate is on the scene. I think Beatrice and Eugenie are probably sweet girls, do fairly well in school and are probably just as well-liked by their peers as Kate is by hers, but that doesn't matter - they will never photograph as well as she does, and I think it's hopeless for them to try to perform on the same stage.
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