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  #681  
Old 04-11-2011, 01:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Diarist View Post
Please could you direct me to where I could make a post explaining some background information to Prince and Princess Michael of Kent, which I hope members of TRF will find interesting and helpful? I want to deal with why they [generally] do not carry out OFFICIAL royal duties.

I don't want to hijack the thread here, but often seem references in threads about questions relating to Prince and Princess Michael; I cannot however find a dedicated thread for them, but would like to help with some input.

Thank you

Alex.
Here you go. Hope this helps. http://www.theroyalforums.com/forums...03-a-9756.html
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  #682  
Old 04-11-2011, 02:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Diarist View Post
Please could you direct me to where I could make a post explaining some background information to Prince and Princess Michael of Kent, which I hope members of TRF will find interesting and helpful? I want to deal with why they [generally] do not carry out OFFICIAL royal duties.

I don't want to hijack the thread here, but often seem references in threads about questions relating to Prince and Princess Michael; I cannot however find a dedicated thread for them, but would like to help with some input.

Thank you

Alex.
http://www.theroyalforums.com/forums...ml#post1230266
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  #683  
Old 04-11-2011, 02:23 PM
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Yipes! I posted the wrong link. Thanks much Muriel!
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  #684  
Old 04-11-2011, 07:00 PM
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So even if Eugenie or Beatrice decide only to do 10-20 events for charities, they are seen by the people and that's whats important for all of them of Clan Windsor. And the media understands that. Or why would Zara and Peter be referred to as "Royal" otherwise? Even though they have no titles they are family members and thus are important for the RF and their perception by the people.

Zara and Peter don't do royal duties but have private careers (although Zara's career is public because she is an international sports performer) but she doesn't do things for the royal family.

Beatrice and Eugenie hopefully will follow this path and have a life away from the public eye.
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  #685  
Old 04-12-2011, 12:50 AM
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Neither Anne's children nor Margaret's children are Royal Highnesses. If they have the titles and the prestige that they bring, they should do the work.


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Margaret's children have their own careers and Margaret was the second child. Anne's children have their own careers so why not Andrew's?
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  #686  
Old 04-12-2011, 03:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Mermaid1962 View Post
Neither Anne's children nor Margaret's children are Royal Highnesses. If they have the titles and the prestige that they bring, they should do the work.

Why?

They are all grandchildren of the monarch - no difference there.
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  #687  
Old 04-12-2011, 08:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
Why?

They are all grandchildren of the monarch - no difference there.
That lovely rule of male line grandchildren of a monarch.They're all in the line of succession which seems good enough for them.
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  #688  
Old 04-12-2011, 02:11 PM
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I agree the whole distinction between HM's grandchildren is confusing. I remember reading years ago Pss Anne saying something along the line that her children aren't royals. And I thought, their grandmother is Queen and their cousins (on mum's side) are all royal, it was odd. I guess the HRH really makes the difference.
And yes, whereas Pss B & E have that HRH, I don't think they'll be able to blend into the mainstream as easily as Peter and Zara. And I don't think they'll need to. I still say that there will be plenty for them to do representing the BRF over the next decades.
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  #689  
Old 04-12-2011, 08:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Bella View Post
I agree the whole distinction between HM's grandchildren is confusing. I remember reading years ago Pss Anne saying something along the line that her children aren't royals. And I thought, their grandmother is Queen and their cousins (on mum's side) are all royal, it was odd. I guess the HRH really makes the difference.
And yes, whereas Pss B & E have that HRH, I don't think they'll be able to blend into the mainstream as easily as Peter and Zara. And I don't think they'll need to. I still say that there will be plenty for them to do representing the BRF over the next decades.

Can you give examples of what they could do?

I can't think of anything that isn't already being done that could be picked up by these two - remembering that Kate will also have to pick up stuff herself over the next decade.
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  #690  
Old 04-12-2011, 09:43 PM
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Originally Posted by sliver_bic View Post
That lovely rule of male line grandchildren of a monarch.They're all in the line of succession which seems good enough for them.

it is not a "lovely rule" at all....Children (in ALL circles) take their rank from their father..Captain Philipps does NOT have a title of any kind and therefore his children do not either...Even though they are grandchildren of a reigning monacrh, they are still Mr. and Miss Philipps.... The York sisters are, for that reason, a different matter.
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  #691  
Old 04-12-2011, 10:07 PM
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This is what I think as well. I don't think that they could blend into the workforce in the UK very well, unless they earn qualifications that enable them to do some kind of professional work in the palaces; for example, archival work or work taking care of/restoring the art or other treasures. Or they could marry men with estates and do some kind of management or other work there. This would also include doing public duties at times. However, if they really don't want anything to do with public life, I think that they'll have to go and live in a country where they aren't known as royal princesses.


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Originally Posted by Bella View Post
And yes, whereas Pss B & E have that HRH, I don't think they'll be able to blend into the mainstream as easily as Peter and Zara. And I don't think they'll need to. I still say that there will be plenty for them to do representing the BRF over the next decades.
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  #692  
Old 04-12-2011, 10:09 PM
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HRH Princess Beatrice of York and HRH Princess Eugenie of York vs. Zara Phillips and Peter Phillips. It has to do with the royal title. The same things aren't expected of Zara and Peter, because they aren't titled.


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Why?

They are all grandchildren of the monarch - no difference there.
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  #693  
Old 04-12-2011, 10:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
Can you give examples of what they could do?

I can't think of anything that isn't already being done that could be picked up by these two - remembering that Kate will also have to pick up stuff herself over the next decade.
As I've said before, currently the duties (attending awards banquets, charity events, visiting schools/hospitals/hospices/businesses) that are presently being performed by Pss Alexandra, the Duke of Kent, the Gloucesters, P/Pss Michael of Kent - not to mention the Pss Royal, P Andrew and the Wessexes - will all become available as these people age. They may not make front page news in their work for the BRF, but they do work. In 10 years the youngest of these, the Wessexes, will be close to 60. The others, I'm sure, will well be retired. Who does that leave to carry out the duties that 10 people do now? HM King Charles and his wife, Prince Wm/Kate, Prince Harry and his spouse? Not alot of people to fill the void, imo. Pss B & E could certainly take on some of these duties. It would make perfect sense. They will be royal cousins taking the reigns from the previous royal cousins.
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  #694  
Old 04-13-2011, 12:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Bella View Post
As I've said before, currently the duties (attending awards banquets, charity events, visiting schools/hospitals/hospices/businesses) that are presently being performed by Pss Alexandra, the Duke of Kent, the Gloucesters, P/Pss Michael of Kent - not to mention the Pss Royal, P Andrew and the Wessexes - will all become available as these people age. They may not make front page news in their work for the BRF, but they do work. In 10 years the youngest of these, the Wessexes, will be close to 60. The others, I'm sure, will well be retired. Who does that leave to carry out the duties that 10 people do now? HM King Charles and his wife, Prince Wm/Kate, Prince Harry and his spouse? Not alot of people to fill the void, imo. Pss B & E could certainly take on some of these duties. It would make perfect sense. They will be royal cousins taking the reigns from the previous royal cousins.

But these people aren't retiring from these duties so there is nothing for Beatrice or Eugenie to do now.

You can't expect these two girls to sit around doing nothing for the next 20 or so years until the older royals retire - remembering by then William's children will be approaching adulthood themselves.

If Beatrice or Eugenie don't want to do royal duties there really are sufficient people around now to cover everything.

I don't see any role for them. It isn't like the situation in 1952 when there simply weren't any older royals either so Alexandra was called up as a young princess but that isn't the case now with the Queen having 4 children and two grandkids to do the work with a new spouse on the blocks as well.

The other problem is also Beatrice finishes uni in June. If she is to be a full time royal then she will be starting out just as Kate is. Who would you want to represent you, or to open your hospital wing etc - the new girl on the block who will be the future Queen or the daughter of despised Andrew and hated Sarah?

What I find interesting is that this far out from ending uni we knew William's plans for the future but nothing has been said about Beatrice. I wonder if the family don't know what to do with her, particularly with Kate also coming on the scene now.

Beatrice will have a degree in History and History of Ideas so no hints there as to what her future might be. It would be great to know what areas of History she has been studying.


An intersting article from a week or so ago:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...rade-role.html

According to this article - they have no future role in the family.

"It has been made clear that the Princesses should pursue their own careers and have no formal roles," a courtier claims. "The Prince of Wales is keen that the Royal family should be seen to have 'slimmed-down'."
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  #695  
Old 04-13-2011, 01:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
But these people aren't retiring from these duties so there is nothing for Beatrice or Eugenie to do now.

You can't expect these two girls to sit around doing nothing for the next 20 or so years until the older royals retire - remembering by then William's children will be approaching adulthood themselves.

If Beatrice or Eugenie don't want to do royal duties there really are sufficient people around now to cover everything.

I don't see any role for them. It isn't like the situation in 1952 when there simply weren't any older royals either so Alexandra was called up as a young princess but that isn't the case now with the Queen having 4 children and two grandkids to do the work with a new spouse on the blocks as well.

The other problem is also Beatrice finishes uni in June. If she is to be a full time royal then she will be starting out just as Kate is. Who would you want to represent you, or to open your hospital wing etc - the new girl on the block who will be the future Queen or the daughter of despised Andrew and hated Sarah?

What I find interesting is that this far out from ending uni we knew William's plans for the future but nothing has been said about Beatrice. I wonder if the family don't know what to do with her, particularly with Kate also coming on the scene now.

Beatrice will have a degree in History and History of Ideas so no hints there as to what her future might be. It would be great to know what areas of History she has been studying.


An intersting article from a week or so ago:

Princess Beatrice and Princess Eugenie pay price for row over Duke of York's trade role - Telegraph

According to this article - they have no future role in the family.

"It has been made clear that the Princesses should pursue their own careers and have no formal roles," a courtier claims. "The Prince of Wales is keen that the Royal family should be seen to have 'slimmed-down'."
Sorry but I have to disasgree with you on some of these points. I think there will be vacancies alot sooner than 20 years. Already the elder members of the family are taking on less. I believe Pss. Alexandra and the cousins are in their 70s now or very close to it. I don't think they'll be representing the RF in 10 years, nevermind 20. And I think it would give the York girls an oppt. to start taking on some of these roles over the next several years.

As for Charles wanting to slim down the RF, that's been going around for decades. And perhaps he will, but then he'll have to scale down the number of events members of the RF can attend.

Whe girls will do between the time they finish school and the time they take on official royal duties, if they do, is a good question. But I don't think they'll be out working the 9-5 beat. Maybe they could get more involved with their parents' organizations (I know some people will turn their noses up at the mention of their parents, but it is a possibility).

Or, as someone else here mentioned, they might find a job within the royal household in terms of renovating or cataloguing different items. This is a good point and rather confusing. But I still say that in the end there will be a place for them within the royal fold.

Ultimately, I think they will marry well and spend more time with their families as womeno of society.
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  #696  
Old 04-13-2011, 02:36 AM
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Sorry but I have to disasgree with you on some of these points. I think there will be vacancies alot sooner than 20 years. Already the elder members of the family are taking on less. I believe Pss. Alexandra and the cousins are in their 70s now or very close to it. I don't think they'll be representing the RF in 10 years, nevermind 20. And I think it would give the York girls an oppt. to start taking on some of these roles over the next several years.
The question is though who would want them?

Quote:
As for Charles wanting to slim down the RF, that's been going around for decades. And perhaps he will, but then he'll have to scale down the number of events members of the RF can attend.
Or increase the workload of those who are working e.g. Camilla could double her workload and Kate and William could easily be doing 600 or so a year each within the next decade - if Philip could do o0ver 800 there is no reason why his grandson can't do the same (after he leaves the Air Force of course)

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Whe girls will do between the time they finish school and the time they take on official royal duties, if they do, is a good question. But I don't think they'll be out working the 9-5 beat. Maybe they could get more involved with their parents' organizations (I know some people will turn their noses up at the mention of their parents, but it is a possibility).
Beatrice finishes uni in about 10 weeks - not a long time to be deciding on a future and create a role. With Kate also being launched I think it is clear that there is no role for the York girls - yes I do believe that the timing of the engagement and wedding was designed with just that idea in mind.

Quote:
Or, as someone else here mentioned, they might find a job within the royal household in terms of renovating or cataloguing different items. This is a good point and rather confusing. But I still say that in the end there will be a place for them within the royal fold.
I think you might find that that was actually my suggestion. With degrees in history that is the sort of thing they could do but... unless they get the job on merits they will always face criticism and a basic degree with no experience won't qualify in the royal collection. They will need to get experience and that will mean working for years in a 9 - 5 job to get that experience - no other way.

Quote:
Ultimately, I think they will marry well and spend more time with their families as womeno of society.

I think they might but I hope that as modern women they have more drive than to be simply housewives and mothers - so 19th C rather than modern 21st C.

Whatever they do we should start to get some idea within months as Beatrice leaves uni and some announcement of her future is made (I suspect another 'gap' year travelling the world before she decides to get married and spend her life doing not much at all, with occasional appearances at things like Trooping the Colour and as Daddy's escort on some overseas jaunts until Charles becomes King and then retired from public life completely.
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  #697  
Old 04-13-2011, 05:15 AM
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Sorry but I have to disasgree with you on some of these points. I think there will be vacancies alot sooner than 20 years. Already the elder members of the family are taking on less. I believe Pss. Alexandra and the cousins are in their 70s now or very close to it. I don't think they'll be representing the RF in 10 years, nevermind 20. And I think it would give the York girls an oppt. to start taking on some of these roles over the next several years.
It was mentioned in TRF recently that the Kents and Gloucesters together do about 300 engagements a year - its the sort of work load that the Wessex's, Catherine, William, and Harry's wife could easily take up by themselves. Anne (and Andrew) do not show any signs of slowing down in a hurry. Based on this, I really do not think that B&E would be required to carry out engagements for the BRF on grounds of "capacity"




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As for Charles wanting to slim down the RF, that's been going around for decades. And perhaps he will, but then he'll have to scale down the number of events members of the RF can attend.
Whilst the idea has beeen going around fir decades, Charles has not (and is not) in the driving seat, so he really cannot materially change things at the moment.

I have no doubt that under Charles as King, there may well be a change in the number and type of engagements that members of the royal family carry out, so it may well be possible that some of the currrent "usual crop" do not continue to get royal patronage.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bella View Post
Whe girls will do between the time they finish school and the time they take on official royal duties, if they do, is a good question. But I don't think they'll be out working the 9-5 beat. Maybe they could get more involved with their parents' organizations (I know some people will turn their noses up at the mention of their parents, but it is a possibility).

Or, as someone else here mentioned, they might find a job within the royal household in terms of renovating or cataloguing different items. This is a good point and rather confusing. But I still say that in the end there will be a place for them within the royal fold.
I really see no problem with the girls getting real, 9-5 jobs and developing careers of their own.
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  #698  
Old 04-13-2011, 05:41 AM
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Whilst the idea has beeen going around fir decades, Charles has not (and is not) in the driving seat, so he really cannot materially change things at the moment.

I really see no problem with the girls getting real, 9-5 jobs and developing careers of their own.
I think that although Charles isn't in the driving seat as such he would certainly be consulted about the future otherwise you could have two young ladies being told in 10 years time - you are no longer required.

I do think that this will have been discussed at length between the Queen, Charles, William and the girls so that they know what they will be expected to do in the future. The fact that we haven't been told doesn't mean that the girls don't know.
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  #699  
Old 04-13-2011, 05:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
I think that although Charles isn't in the driving seat as such he would certainly be consulted about the future otherwise you could have two young ladies being told in 10 years time - you are no longer required.
I do accept that he would have been consulted, and his opinions taken on board, but for now, I suspect his is unlikely to be the last word on the topic

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
I do think that this will have been discussed at length between the Queen, Charles, William and the girls so that they know what they will be expected to do in the future. The fact that we haven't been told doesn't mean that the girls don't know.
Fully agree
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  #700  
Old 05-06-2011, 08:37 AM
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I'm another person on here who thinks The York Princesses can't win.

If they take on a lot of Royal duties, they'll be acting more important than they really are, and stealing opportunities from Catherine.

If they they forge their own careers, they'll be depending on their titles, and accomplishing nothing based on their merits.

If they enlist in defence positions, they'll only be interested in how many honours they can boast.

If they focus on marraige and motherhood, they'll be lazy, and have no sense of Royal duty.

If they assist the Family in a more private way (such as archiving) they'll be reclusive.

I think it's partly because of who their parents are, and partly because of their gender, but I'm not certain. As for what I can see happening, I can see them picking up some duties as the older generation slows down. To anyone who wonders what they're going to do until then, their education will allow them to get some work. I really don't see how there can be no future for Beatrice and Eugenie, in The Royal Family. They got their Coats of Arms at the same age some people thought they were going to be demoted, and they can't pass on their HRHs, so it's not as if keeping them will make the Family too large. People were disgusted with William's and Harry's behaviour, but their futures weren't in doubt like this. It's not enough to say that they are further up The Line of Succession. William and Henry are second and third respectively, Beatrice and Eugenie are fifth and sixth respectively, and although William's positon is secure, Harry will get moved down in the same way The York Princesses will. Why the towards the idea of Beatrice and Eugenie being working Royals? Is there something I'm missing here?
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