The Royal Forums Coat of Arms


Join The Royal Forums Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
  #661  
Old 04-08-2011, 05:27 PM
Osipi's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: On the west side of North up from Back, United States
Posts: 6,643
Quote:
Originally Posted by sliver_bic View Post
See I don't understand this opinion. Why, exactly, does it not appear so? The argument of Williams kids is faaaaar off, as they have yet to be conceived and then would require more than two decades before they even began to do anything. Harry seems to not be heading down that road anytime soon and Edward's kids seem like they'll be steered away from such positions so why, especially as the workload on others is lessened, can't the two find some niche within the firm?
What seems to be a real possibility for me is that as Beatrice and Eugenie settle down and perhaps start a family, they will be able to maintain their CoS roles as well as perhaps take on royal duties as far as charities and such (they've certainly attended these with their mother and father countless times). Perhaps their spouses will continue in their own chosen professsions (I believe Dave Clarke works for Virgin and Richard Branson correct?). I'm sure they'll both find their own niche and balance in due time.

Now for an amusing thought. Beatrice and Dave could have several children and all of them be musically inclined. In the style of the Von Trapp family, they could perform for charities as none other than the Dave Clarke 5.
__________________

Reply With Quote
  #662  
Old 04-08-2011, 05:32 PM
Zonk's Avatar
Administrator
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere in, United States
Posts: 11,330
Quote:
Originally Posted by sliver_bic View Post
See I don't understand this opinion. Why, exactly, does it not appear so? The argument of Williams kids is faaaaar off, as they have yet to be conceived and then would require more than two decades before they even began to do anything. Harry seems to not be heading down that road anytime soon and Edward's kids seem like they'll be steered away from such positions so why, especially as the workload on others is lessened, can't the two find some niche within the firm?
Because people see what they want to see and aren't open to the possibility of Beatrice and Eugenie becoming full fledged members of The Firm.

They will spout the usual that Charles wishes to decrease the size of the BRF when he becomes King when in reality, life will do that with the deaths of several members of the BRF (the Queen, DoE, the Kents, and the Gloucesters). Even if those mentioned don't die in the next 5 to 10 years they are getting older, and I would expect them to reduce (not eliminate) their duties. People like to talk negatively about junior members of the BRF (mainly in the press) but the fact is that the junior royals do their fair share of work on behalf of the BRF.

Some will even say that a lot of the patronage that is done by the royals will and can be done by movie stars and/or celebrities. Not counting the fact that while most charities will welcome celebrity involvement...celebrity fame is fickle. Cheryl Cole or Kate Winslet (for example) might be hot now...but what about in a couple of years. Charities like presige and stability.....can anyone name the biggest British singer and actors from five years ago?

They also like to mention the life span of the Queen Mother...well that's all well and good...but not everyone is guaranteed such a long and fruitful life.
__________________

__________________
.

Reply With Quote
  #663  
Old 04-08-2011, 06:29 PM
Mermaid1962's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: NearTheCoast, Canada
Posts: 6,004
Yes, I think that there's an exception for unmarried royal women and older girls--i.e. young adult princesses.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Duchessmary View Post
Only married women? Princess Anne as a young woman wore tiaras.
Reply With Quote
  #664  
Old 04-08-2011, 06:30 PM
Mermaid1962's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: NearTheCoast, Canada
Posts: 6,004
Exactly. And even without disease, there's the possibility of accident or assassination. One doesn't like to dwell on such things, but there's also the possibility of suicide.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Zonk View Post
They also like to mention the life span of the Queen Mother...well that's all well and good...but not everyone is guaranteed such a long and fruitful life.
Reply With Quote
  #665  
Old 04-11-2011, 08:09 AM
muriel's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: London / Guildford, United Kingdom
Posts: 6,363
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zonk View Post
Because people see what they want to see and aren't open to the possibility of Beatrice and Eugenie becoming full fledged members of The Firm.
I do think that is quite a provocative statement to anybody who does not share a completely positive view of B&E, or feel they do not have a major role in the future BRF.
Reply With Quote
  #666  
Old 04-11-2011, 08:19 AM
Zonk's Avatar
Administrator
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere in, United States
Posts: 11,330
I do think that there are a lot of people (not here of course) who don't like B&E because of who their parents are and what they think that B&E represent. They think that they are spongers. Think some of the Daily Mail readers and the like.

I do think that some people think that when the lot of the current family dies and/or retires that Charles, Camilla, Edward, Sophie, Anne, Andrew, William, Harry, Kate and Harry's wife will be able to do the work that is currently done by the Queen, DoE, the kids and their spouses, the Kents and the Gloucesters. I don't think that is possible.

I remember reading the late Princess Alice, Duchess of Gloucester's biography and she is talking about how her son and daughter in law do SO MUCH more than they did with less. Less money and less support (in terms of assistants, etc.). On one hand I see why people think that celebs could do some of the patronages that royals do...but I don't see that being a good fit. Celebrity is fickle and really, having a royal as your patron is ideal in terms of prestige and stablity (unless its someone respected for doing charity work like Elizabeth Taylor, Angelina Jolie, Audrey Hepburn, etc.)

That's why I think that B&E will become working members of the BRF.
__________________
.

Reply With Quote
  #667  
Old 04-11-2011, 08:34 AM
Iluvbertie's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Bathurst, Australia
Posts: 10,194
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zonk View Post
I do think that there are a lot of people (not here of course) who don't like B&E because of who their parents are and what they think that B&E represent. They think that they are spongers. Think some of the Daily Mail readers and the like.

I do think that some people think that when the lot of the current family dies and/or retires that Charles, Camilla, Edward, Sophie, Anne, Andrew, William, Harry, Kate and Harry's wife will be able to do the work that is currently done by the Queen, DoE, the kids and their spouses, the Kents and the Gloucesters. I don't think that is possible.

I remember reading the late Princess Alice, Duchess of Gloucester's biography and she is talking about how her son and daughter in law do SO MUCH more than they did with less. Less money and less support (in terms of assistants, etc.). On one hand I see why people think that celebs could do some of the patronages that royals do...but I don't see that being a good fit. Celebrity is fickle and really, having a royal as your patron is ideal in terms of prestige and stablity (unless its someone respected for doing charity work like Elizabeth Taylor, Angelina Jolie, Audrey Hepburn, etc.)

That's why I think that B&E will become working members of the BRF.

So you are saying that William, Kate, Harry and his wife can't pick up the work currently being done by The Duke and Duchess of Gloucester and the Duke of Kent (the only three of them working) pluse start to pick up the Queen and DoE's engagments remembering that Camilla also needs to pick up her level of engagements.

Simply arithmetic would say that they could.

Gloucesters and Kents do about 300 between them a year (less than 1 per day between the three of them), the Queen about 400 and Philip about 500. That's 1200 to be divided between William, Kate, Harry and his wife, plus Camilla and even Charles to increase his workload from around 500 to the 700 or so his mother was doing in her 60s.

Remember that William and Harry are doing about 100 between them at the moment but that number will need to increase, particularly by William and Kate to at least 500 each per day.

There is no need for Beatrice and Eugenie.


If that is the lifestyle the girls want then fine - but really they can have a real life with a real career if they want one - like the Linleys and Chatto's (also the children of the second child of the monarch).
Reply With Quote
  #668  
Old 04-11-2011, 08:41 AM
muriel's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: London / Guildford, United Kingdom
Posts: 6,363
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
Let's see - the Gloucesters and Kents do about 300 engagements between them a year - less than one a day.
I do think that there is probably enough "capacity" with the existing royals (and the wives of William and Harry) for the medium term. If there were to be "shortages" in 10-15 years when Anne and Andrew may want to slow down, I am sure the York girls could be asked to step up to the plate, if really required. That will allow te girls the opportunity to establish themselves intheir independent careers, and possibly gain the credibility required.
Reply With Quote
  #669  
Old 04-11-2011, 08:47 AM
Zonk's Avatar
Administrator
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere in, United States
Posts: 11,330
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
Let's see - the Gloucesters and Kents do about 300 engagements between them a year - less than one a day.
Yes...300 engagements...not a lot..but than you consider than the Queen and DoE will eventually slow down....how many patronages from the late Queen Mother and Princess Margaret were picked up by existing members of the Firm? Charles, Andrew, Anne and Edward will not be able to maintain their existing schedules...unlike the Queen Mother....who says they are going to live to be 100?
__________________
.

Reply With Quote
  #670  
Old 04-11-2011, 09:16 AM
MRSJ's Avatar
Royal Highness
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: ******, United States
Posts: 1,863
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iluvbertie

Remember that William and Harry are doing about 100 between them at the moment but that number will need to increase, particularly by William and Kate to at least 500 each per day..
500 a day? Seems impossible to me-

I see no reason B& E can't be working royals (assuming they and the Monoarch wish for them to be) - I am sure there is plenty of charities, events and patronages to go around -
Reply With Quote
  #671  
Old 04-11-2011, 09:25 AM
Zonk's Avatar
Administrator
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere in, United States
Posts: 11,330
300 a year...I think thats a rather short estimate...

Three? Don't you mean 4....The Duke of Kent, Princess Alexandra of Kent and the Duke and Duchess of Gloucester.

Charles does a good amount of work...I can't imagine Camilla doubling her engagements...

I have to go to work...but I will check the work stats this afternoon.
__________________
.

Reply With Quote
  #672  
Old 04-11-2011, 09:32 AM
Iluvbertie's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Bathurst, Australia
Posts: 10,194
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zonk View Post
300 a year...I think thats a rather short estimate...

Three? Don't you mean 4....The Duke of Kent, Princess Alexandra of Kent and the Duke and Duchess of Gloucester.

Charles does a good amount of work...I can't imagine Camilla doubling her engagements...

I have to go to work...but I will check the work stats this afternoon.

Princess Alexandra does do much any more having cut back heavily since her husband died.
Reply With Quote
  #673  
Old 04-11-2011, 09:39 AM
Iluvbertie's Avatar
Imperial Majesty
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Bathurst, Australia
Posts: 10,194
Quote:
Originally Posted by MRSJ View Post
500 a day? Seems impossible to me-
oops - I did mean per year of course

Quote:
I see no reason B& E can't be working royals (assuming they and the Monoarch wish for them to be) - I am sure there is plenty of charities, events and patronages to go around -

That is the issue though isn't it?

Do they want to or are they simply expected to?

Margaret's children have their own careers and Margaret was the second child. Anne's children have their own careers so why not Andrew's?

The public really don't want a lot of minor royals around the place.

The Gloucesters and Kents stepped up in a time when there weren't really any other options for royals but these days the situation is way different.

If they want to spend their lives opening hospitals and making small talk with people they meet for about 5 minutes at a time - fine but - if they were prefer a fulfilling life doing other things, like Peter and Zara, David and Sarah, then they should be able to do so.

I get the very distinct idea that Charles and William don't want them doing royal stuff. To me Charles sees his family as the 'royal' family and the others as more hangers on and in his reign he won't really want his neices around much. William, even more so - he wants to modernise the family (as Charles also did at his age) - and I can see him saying he doesn't want them around the royal round of things.

As for the public - I get the impression that they really don't care which celebrity turns up - one who has earned the status through their achievements or the one who is a celebrity due to being born.
Reply With Quote
  #674  
Old 04-11-2011, 09:43 AM
Zonk's Avatar
Administrator
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere in, United States
Posts: 11,330
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iluvbertie View Post
oops - I did mean per year of course




That is the issue though isn't it?

Do they want to or are they simply expected to?

Margaret's children have their own careers and Margaret was the second child. Anne's children have their own careers so why not Andrew's?

The public really don't want a lot of minor royals around the place.

The Gloucesters and Kents stepped up in a time when there weren't really any other options for royals but these days the situation is way different.

If they want to spend their lives opening hospitals and making small talk with people they meet for about 5 minutes at a time - fine but - if they were prefer a fulfilling life doing other things, like Peter and Zara, David and Sarah, then they should be able to do so.

I get the very distinct idea that Charles and William don't want them doing royal stuff. To me Charles sees his family as the 'royal' family and the others as more hangers on and in his reign he won't really want his neices around much. William, even more so - he wants to modernise the family (as Charles also did at his age) - and I can see him saying he doesn't want them around the royal round of things.

As for the public - I get the impression that they really don't care which celebrity turns up - one who has earned the status through their achievements or the one who is a celebrity due to being born.
That's a little strong isn't it?

Charles see his family as the "royal" family and the others as more hangers on? And you can see William saying he doesn't want them around the royal way? And you know this how?

I am pretty much done with this.
__________________
.

Reply With Quote
  #675  
Old 04-11-2011, 09:47 AM
MRSJ's Avatar
Royal Highness
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: ******, United States
Posts: 1,863
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zonk

Three? Don't you mean 4....The Duke of Kent, Princess Alexandra of Kent and the Duke and Duchess of Gloucester..
What about Prince and Princess Michael? Just today I aw pics of him at an event so they some (maybe not 300) right?
Reply With Quote
  #676  
Old 04-11-2011, 09:50 AM
Zonk's Avatar
Administrator
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere in, United States
Posts: 11,330
Quote:
Originally Posted by MRSJ View Post
What about Prince and Princess Michael? Just today I aw pics of him at an event so they some (maybe not 300) right?
Apparently they are not the real royal family despite their continued work (and that of his brother, sister (and their spouses) and cousins) on behalf of the Queen, are considered to be hangers on by the next King and don't count for much.

So Richard of Gloucester giving up his career as an architect, Eddie as a soldier and Alexandra doing anything else means nothing to Charles
__________________
.

Reply With Quote
  #677  
Old 04-11-2011, 10:20 AM
Royal Highness
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: alpine village, Germany
Posts: 1,868
It depends on what the girls really want: what kind of job they wish for (if at all), who they are going to marry.. so many things that are not known at the moment, not even to themselves, I guess.

I personally think Charles is too much a "pro" when it comes to all things Royal to not want as much members of his family to be present in a positive, "regal" way in public. Even thought the Royals need not win any elections, they're still dependant on public opinion, just like the elected parliamentarians. And there's a point any of them learns that it's not the most important things to have a lot of media attention, but to be important to the people of their constituency. These people need to see you there, they need to feel that they can approach you.

And I believe Charles realises that his familiy's "constituency" includes the whole of Britain. So to be really present for the people, they Royals must be there. Not in London or in the paper, but on the streets, in the schools, in hospitals, on fairs...They need to go where the people are or go to.

So even if Eugenie or Beatrice decide only to do 10-20 events for charities, they are seen by the people and that's whats important for all of them of Clan Windsor. And the media understands that. Or why would Zara and Peter be referred to as "Royal" otherwise? Even though they have no titles they are family members and thus are important for the RF and their perception by the people.
Reply With Quote
  #678  
Old 04-11-2011, 10:54 AM
muriel's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: London / Guildford, United Kingdom
Posts: 6,363
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zonk View Post
Apparently they are not the real royal family despite their continued work (and that of his brother, sister (and their spouses) and cousins) on behalf of the Queen, are considered to be hangers on by the next King and don't count for much.

So Richard of Gloucester giving up his career as an architect, Eddie as a soldier and Alexandra doing anything else means nothing to Charles
Sure, there was a time the Gloucesters and Kents were required, and their service to the crown was no doubt appreciaed by the monarch of the day. That does not mean the next monarch needs to follow the very same policy as his mother did. Times have changed, and so must the royal family.
Reply With Quote
  #679  
Old 04-11-2011, 11:04 AM
Al_bina's Avatar
Majesty
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: City, Kazakhstan
Posts: 7,032
Well ... Prince Charles and his two sons with their spouses and future children can pick up all the engagements. That should streamline the operations within the Firm and somewhat please/placate taxpayers. The regal glamour will be gone though.
In light of the said, it would serve much better for both Princess Beatrice and Princess Eugine in the long run to become a private royal, make careers and undertake royal engagements rarely.
__________________
"I never did mind about the little things"
Amanda, "Point of No Return"
Reply With Quote
  #680  
Old 04-11-2011, 01:28 PM
Courtier
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Berkshire, United Kingdom
Posts: 650
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zonk View Post
Apparently they are not the real royal family despite their continued work ....
Please could you direct me to where I could make a post explaining some background information to Prince and Princess Michael of Kent, which I hope members of TRF will find interesting and helpful? I want to deal with why they [generally] do not carry out OFFICIAL royal duties.

I don't want to hijack the thread here, but often seem references in threads about questions relating to Prince and Princess Michael; I cannot however find a dedicated thread for them, but would like to help with some input.

Thank you

Alex.
__________________

Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
career, education, princess beatrice, princess eugenie, royal duties, social life, styles and titles


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Princesses Beatrice and Eugenie Picture Thread: All Years Warren The Duke of York, Sarah Duchess of York, and Family 97 09-27-2015 11:09 AM
Duties, Roles and Royal Training of the Princes JOY! Prince Harry and Prince William 214 02-20-2013 08:07 PM
Beatrice and Eugenie: Baby/Childhood Pictures Martine The Duke of York, Sarah Duchess of York, and Family 133 03-04-2006 12:25 AM




Popular Tags
ascot 2016 best gown best gown september 2016 best hat best outfit biography catherine middleton style coup d'etat crown prince haakon crown princess mary crown princess mary fashion crown princess mette-marit current events duchess of cambridge dutch state visit e-mail fashion poll grand duke jean greece haakon kate middleton king abdullah ii king abdullah in australia king felipe king felipe vi king willem-alexander madeleine member introduction monarchy new zealand nobel gala norway november 2016 october 2016 opening of parliament picture of the week prince bernhard prince charles princess madeleine princess marie princess marie fashion princess mary princess mary daytime fashion princess mary fashion princess mary hats queen letizia queen letizia casual outfits queen letizia daytime fashion queen letizia fashion queen letizia style queen mathilde queen mathildes outfits queen maxima queen maxima casual wear queen maxima daytime fashion queen maxima fashion queen maxima hats queen maxima style queen rania royal fashion september 2016 state visit state visit to denmark succession sweden the duchess of cambridge the duchess of cambridge casual wear the duchess of cambridge daytime fashion the duchess of cambridge fashion the duchess of cambridge hats


Our Communities

Our communities encompass many different hobbies and interests, but each one is built on friendly, intelligent membership.

» More about our Communities

Automotive Communities

Our Automotive communities encompass many different makes and models. From U.S. domestics to European Saloons.

» More about our Automotive Communities

Marine Communities

Our Marine websites focus on Cruising and Sailing Vessels, including forums and the largest cruising Wiki project on the web today.

» More about our Marine Communities


Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:00 AM.

Social Knowledge Networks

eXTReMe Tracker
Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2016
Jelsoft Enterprises