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  #561  
Old 06-15-2010, 12:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Zonk View Post
Iluvebertie...you make very valid points. One has to wonder if the York girls are being discriminated against (and yes, I think that is the case here) because of who their mother is. Everyone acts if these girls have been on the government payroll for the last thirty years and are photographed EVERY NIGHT partying.
And I think we have a winner here as to why the York girls seem to be so vilified in certain places. Especially in regards of them being despised simply because "They are Fergie's Daughters, so you *know* what that means..." Which is beyond unfair, but sadly is what seems to be happening.

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While I can certainly understand that the Royal Security budget needed to be cut, I have to wonder why Scotland Yard or anyone else for that matter (if this information is in fact true) felt the need to share with the WORLD and every nutcase out there that these two young girls (who many might feel rightly or wrongly are wealthy) are baiscally unprotected and are open for potential harm? Who announces that?!
My Dad had the same reaction when I mentioned all of this happening last night. As he said, just who in their wrong mind thought that making this decision public was a good idea!?!

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Do we need something bad to happen before we realize that that they need SOME type of security? I mean if regular people (and that includes myself) are subject to crazies out there and I am by no means wealthy, what does this mean for Beatrice and Eugenie? It just amazes me.
Sadly, I have a bad feeling that's exactly what is going to happen now. I mean...Regardless of individual opinions, the United Kingdom *is* a country at War and now that the information Beatrice and Eugenie's protection has been w/drawn is out there for one and all to find out, are you seriously telling me that *some* part of Al Qaeda isn't right now rubbing their hands w/glee?

I mean...William and Harry are obviously beyond their reach, but now, there's two Princessess and Granddaughters of the Queen w/out Protection. I have a very real and sad hunch that as soon as that became public yesterday, several plots on how to kidnap one or both York girls went into the planning stages.

As I said last night...I have a bad, bad, bad feeling about this...
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  #562  
Old 06-15-2010, 01:01 AM
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I think Beatrice and Eugenie have been discriminated against for a long time because a) they are Andrew and Sarah's daughters and b) they are girls, and people hold them to a higher standard than William and Harry. I notice the press always refers to Beatrice and Eugenie as "minor royals". Well, really, they aren't--they're 5th and 6th in line to the throne. It's like wishful thinking--people want to see them as minor royals because Andrew and Sarah aren't well-liked, and because the media has portrayed the girls (rightly or wrongly) as spoiled party girls for so long. The tabloids have been going on and on about the cost of their police protection for so long and making it sound as though they do nothing but party, that the government has an easy justification for cutting back their security.

That being said, I think that with the global financial crisis, and a new government in Britain, it was inevitable that security cutbacks were going to be made. The public attitude towards Beatrice and Eugenie probably makes it easier, but I think it would have happened eventually anyway.

I don't think it's that likely that something will happen to Beatrice and Eugenie even in this day and age of terrorism, but if anything does, you can bet there will be a backlash and that the government will be re-thinking security for the royals once again.

I feel sorry for Beatrice and Eugenie in a way, because they are in an awkward position. It's clear (to me) that they have been brought up with the expectation that they will spend their lives representing the royal family and performing public duties in some way. Yet it seems that the public doesn't have much use for them and would rather they have no titles and earn their own living. I do understand people wanting a pared-back royal family, but I don't understand why it has to be suddenly cut down to the point where Beatrice and Eugenie are completely excluded. It seems that people expect the royal family to consist of just the Queen and Prince Philip, Charles, and William and Harry--and everyone else is "hangers-on." But there has been an extended royal family performing a significant number of duties for many decades...the Kents, the Gloucesters, Edward and Sophie. I can understand cutting the monarchy back gradually, but to cut out even the people 5th and 6th in line to the throne seems very extreme to me. I sometimes get the feeling that the people who don't want Beatrice and Eugenie as part of the royal family don't really want there to be a "royal family" at all--just a head of state and his/her children, something like what exists in the U.S.
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  #563  
Old 06-15-2010, 01:42 PM
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Well if you put it like that Beatrice and Eugenie are both doing more than William and Harry were at there ages. I realise that they are in full time education, and thats my point they are in university and yet they still manage to do certain royal duties.

After they loose their protection, something is going to happen to them. The shouldn't loose it this early on.

People say that the public attitude towards them is a factor, I don't know what attitude this is? I have never heard the public dislike the york girls for any reason other than Sarah.
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  #564  
Old 06-15-2010, 04:37 PM
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Regardless of why the girls are despised there is a clear body of the British public that do so and they are quite vocal with comments in the press etc.

From this side of the world it seems that Diana's sons can do no wrong but Sarah's girls can do no right, which is a pity as the boys have spent as much time partying etc as the girls but at this stage of their lives (comparing William and Harry at 21 to Beatrice at 21 and Eugenie at 19) the girls have done more with Beatrice charity marathon and other functions for charity - usually with their despised mother and Beatrice has also supported her father on some of his official work for the country.
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  #565  
Old 06-15-2010, 04:48 PM
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I've just never seen articles for instance, on why they are not liked etc.
I think all this has to do with, is who their mother is. Diana is loved by most around the world, Sarah is not. Unfortunately that has affected the children.
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  #566  
Old 06-15-2010, 04:50 PM
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The argument can certainly be made that Beatrice and Eugenie are more at risk than Lord Mountbatten. They are directly related to the Queen, whereas Mountbatten was her consort's uncle.

I think that part of the problem is that our world is meritocratic. Politician--even Presidents--are seen to "earn" their place in the world and somehow that makes them more deserving of protection--at least in some people's minds.
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I wonder if those people who commented in The Telegraph can recall what happened to the late Earl Mountbatten of Burma?
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  #567  
Old 06-15-2010, 04:58 PM
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Remember as well, that at the time the young princesses were born, their father was the second son of the Queen and would likely have acted as Regent for Willliam had his grandmother and father died before he reached the age of majority. When Lady Louise and Viscount Severn came along, the Wales princes were adults, and Prince Edward was seventh in line to the throne. The situation was quite different.


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Sophie and Edwards children are 2 and 6. And they have titles like Lady and Viscount, due to the title their father was given.
Princess Anne's children have no titles because that is what Anne requested from her mother.
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  #568  
Old 06-15-2010, 05:06 PM
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I'm confused.
Are you saying because of Andrew's position, as possible regent, that is why his children got titles and HRH's?
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  #569  
Old 06-15-2010, 05:08 PM
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I remember all the whining about Harry and William not doing enough for the country and falling out of nightclubs. Harry was in fact getting a reputation for being a bit of a thug and a womanizer(remember the attack on the photographer?). William was protected somewhat because of his situation, but it was open season on Harry. But now that they're working in the forces and doing public duties, that has changed. If Sarah retreats from the public view, and the York princesses are seen to be diligent students and do public duties to some degree, opinions might change.


QUOTE=Lumutqueen;1093992]I've just never seen articles for instance, on why they are not liked etc.
I think all this has to do with, is who their mother is. Diana is loved by most around the world, Sarah is not. Unfortunately that has affected the children.[/QUOTE]
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  #570  
Old 06-15-2010, 05:12 PM
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Oh yeah I certainly remember what the boys were like a few years ago, but when Harry had the drugs story, the nazi uniform, the attack on the photographer and falling out of clubs every night he was what 21, 22 maybe?
Beatrice and Eugenie are that age, and they haven't done anything like that. If you say Beatrice is the heir as in William and Eugenie is the spare as in Harry, comparing them at the same ages you see a massive difference.
They do royal duties, charity events, Beatrice has even ventured to the film industry, both are studying hard at Uni at the same time, I don't see what people have against them other than Sarah.
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  #571  
Old 06-15-2010, 05:23 PM
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Part of me even wonders if Beatrice and Eugenie would be more well thought of if they dressed in a more classic (though not boring) way. Sometimes the loud colors and the frilly frocks and the fascinators make them look frivolous--and I'm one who thinks well of Beatrice and Eugenie! In terms of evening wear, Beatrice is actually dressing more conservatively than she used to.
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  #572  
Old 06-15-2010, 05:27 PM
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I think they wear fascinators because they are afraid of wearing full blown hats, you don't see many royals there age wearing hats. I can understand about the way the dress, I loved there outfits at Ascot portraying the red, white and blue.
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  #573  
Old 06-15-2010, 09:52 PM
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They do royal duties, charity events, Beatrice has even ventured to the film industry, both are studying hard at Uni at the same time, I don't see what people have against them other than Sarah.
I think people have against them the perception that Beatrice and Eugenie are party girls who do nothing but go to nightclubs and take vacations at taxpayer expense. It's a problem more of perception than reality, IMO. haven't seen pictures of them coming out of nightclubs very often lately, and of course we don't see pictures of them studying at university.

I do agree that Beatrice and Eugenie would probably be perceived better if they dressed more conservatively. We live in an image-dominated society, and "a picture is worth a thousand words."
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  #574  
Old 06-15-2010, 10:15 PM
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Honestly I think its a bit of all of the above:

1) Beatrice and Eugenie are perceived as Sarah and Airlines Andy's children. Diana is perceived (rightly or wrongly) as a Saint (and a royal pariah to some) and Charles is the same. Many think he is a great PoW and others think he is worthless...but its almost evenly matched. You find very little people who think well of Sarah (particularly after this last fiasco) and the same with Andy. So is Beatrice and Eugenie had different parents it might be different;
2) As iluvbertie previously mentioned....Beatrice and Eugenie are no different than William and Harry. Unforunately for Bea and Eug, the passage of time has made people forget that Harry and William did the same thing. Its been what...three to five years since William and Harry became serious about their careers (army and royal).
3) Let's face it....controversy sells papers and its all about perception. Papers like the The Sun and the Daily Mail can say what they want (as long as it isn't libelous) because who is going to challenge them? Certainly not Buckingham Palace. BP will only step in when it gets ridiculous.


I could go on and on but I think you get the point.
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  #575  
Old 06-16-2010, 04:28 AM
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The taxpayers pay about 74p for the royal family, the entire royal family every year. Personally I don't have a problem with that.
The 74p does not include security costs.

I think comparing the Wales boys with the York girls, either now or when the boys were 21 is just not relevant.

In my mind, the bigger point is, irrespective of titles, do we see a major role in the BRF for the York girls. In my view, the answer to that question in an unequivocal no. Small parts, like those currently played by the Kents and Gloucesters, but little more than that on a day to day basis. I appreciate that they do some charity work and make appearances at other royal events. These girls really should plan careers for themselves independent of the family. I really do not think Charles will be offering them much more than that in a hurry.

I think the girls are young, and it is only fair they be allowed to party as often as they like (within reason!), as long as it does not compromise on their academics. I also think that the argument that their movements should be restricted because of security costs is spurious - they are either deemed to need security or not.
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  #576  
Old 06-16-2010, 10:24 AM
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I think that as soon as Beatrice and Eugenie start carrying out duties after their studies on behalf of the monarch they will have the appropriate security. They have done some charity work, but I'm not sure this has been on behalf of the Queen. They do attend some official duties such as Trooping the Coulour, where security is present anyway.
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  #577  
Old 07-16-2010, 12:43 AM
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Would they have more of a responsiblity because of their titles? More than Princess Ann's son and daughter? No titles, no duties? Charlotte Casiraghi does not have duties because she is not titled.
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  #578  
Old 07-16-2010, 02:47 AM
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I believe so, yes. Beatrice and Eugenie are currently fifth and sixth in line to the throne. Given their position, I think that they'll be expected to do at least some royal duties until William's children are of age.


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Would they have more of a responsiblity because of their titles? More than Princess Ann's son and daughter? No titles, no duties? Charlotte Casiraghi does not have duties because she is not titled.
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  #579  
Old 07-16-2010, 04:54 AM
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Would they have more of a responsiblity because of their titles? More than Princess Ann's son and daughter? No titles, no duties? Charlotte Casiraghi does not have duties because she is not titled.
Yes they do have a certain amount of "responsibility" to their titles.
And when they have finished uni, they will have to start royal duties. But as they get older, their roles in the royal family will decrease.
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  #580  
Old 07-16-2010, 05:07 AM
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Yes they do have a certain amount of "responsibility" to their titles.
And when they have finished uni, they will have to start royal duties. But as they get older, their roles in the royal family will decrease.
I do expect that they will start royal duties when leaving uni but I wonder why we expect that of them but not of William (Harry of course didn't go to uni so it is unfair to compare them with him on this issue).

Maybe one or both of the girls would like to do something else with their lives first - like the boys get the chance to join the military. I wonder if either of them might considering joining the navy for instance.
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