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  #381  
Old 04-22-2009, 09:07 AM
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Very true but I think it has something to do with the fact that the British people are more affected by the behaviour of the royal princesses than people from another country who just think it is just young people letting off steam.
When they cost the British tax payer so much to keep them in the way they are accustomed (security etc) then it is only natural that these tax payers, who are feeling the pinch at the moment, feel the way they do, especially as the Royal Family up until now has always been so respected.
Sophie and Edward´s children? Not old enough yet to cavort about half naked and get alcoholised, and I hope they will be brought up in a very different way to these York girls.
The parents are at least making a very good start, no titles, no security, I just hope they keep it up.
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  #382  
Old 04-22-2009, 09:10 AM
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Okay..these half naked references are stretching it a bit IMO.

Are you referring to pictures of the York girls in bathing suits. Since when is wearing a two piece considered running around naked?

And yes, you are absolutely correct. The British taxpayer has every right to expect something from the York girls if they are going to subsidize their lifestyle and/or security. My point is when is it acceptable to write two young ladies off at the age at the ages of 21 and 19 as non contributing members of society? As if the actions of the last two years will be all that they will be remembered for? I definitely agree that they need to step up their game and be mindful that they are not regular British teenagers but come on?

And for those who don't consider this bashing...well then you are certainly entitled to your opinion but I guess I would ask you to go back a couple of pages in this thread, any current events thread of Beatrice and Eugenie and let me know if how many positive or neutral posts that you can find about these two young ladies? Its going to be quite the challenge. In fact, I am going to go out on a limb and say that all the negative posting has scared away the positive posters (or the gushers as some would say) away.

Is it too much too ask for a balanced discussion about Beatrice and Eugenie? Both the good and the bad?

And how do we know that James and Louise don't have any security? I am sure there is some type of security watching those kids. But because of their age we don't see them out as much.
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  #383  
Old 04-22-2009, 09:37 AM
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It is not the posters fault that the girls seem to do more negative acts than positive.
How do you know that positive (or gushers as you called them) are scared away, perhaps they are at a bit of a loss to find gushing things to say!
The half naked was referring to when Princess Eugenie took off the top half of her bikini and was photographed, perhaps you missed it and don´t ask me for the link as I have no idea where it was but it was referred to at the time.

When the girls show a bit of discretion and behave as the British public and tax payer expects then of course they will not be written off as no-hopers, until then I think that everyone has a right to an opinion. In fact it would be good to see some sign of the girls showing that they know how to behave in public and in turn show their respect for the British people who, because of their royal birth, have to show respect for them by curtseying and giviing precedence. Noblesse oblige.
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  #384  
Old 04-22-2009, 10:01 AM
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Okay..these half naked references are stretching it a bit IMO.
Are you referring to pictures of the York girls in bathing suits. Since when is wearing a two piece considered running around naked?
I was actually referring to the Marlborough College incident (thankfully there are no pictures) when Eugenie was found drunk and naked on campus grounds.

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And for those who don't consider this bashing...well then you are certainly entitled to your opinion but I guess I would ask you to go back a couple of pages in this thread, any current events thread of Beatrice and Eugenie and let me know if how many positive or neutral posts that you can find about these two young ladies? Its going to be quite the challenge. ... Is it too much too ask for a balanced discussion about Beatrice and Eugenie? Both the good and the bad?
Sadly it's quite a challenge to find something positive about the York girls these days because their recent actions caused a lot of negative coverage, and this simply reflects on posters / posts. It's not that other royals are being praised on this forum for similar actions because their last name is not York.
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  #385  
Old 04-22-2009, 05:33 PM
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I think that we should all take a breath and give the girls a break. Those of us who are older and haven't developed "old timers' disease" yet should remember the grand old days of Princess Anne cussing at reporters, Randy Andy and his soft core porn actress, Edward throwing hissy fits at the media, Princess Margaret and her men and drinking... none of this is anything new. The only thing that's new is the amount of reporters (?) and coverage that the girls (and Prince Harry) get.

And it seems that every generation of royal watchers needs one or more "bad" royals... and Harry and the York girls fit the bill. That's the pattern we've had since the days of Queen Victoria's grandchildren (and even longer if you delve into the Hanoverians, most of whom merited their bad reputations).

Of course, it would help if the girls would also take a breath and think before they leap.
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  #386  
Old 04-22-2009, 06:20 PM
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It is not the posters fault that the girls seem to do more negative acts than positive.
How do you know that positive (or gushers as you called them) are scared away, perhaps they are at a bit of a loss to find gushing things to say!
We know because people PM the mod and admin teams to say so.
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  #387  
Old 04-23-2009, 01:00 AM
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Quite simply, respect has to be earned, or very few people will fund or attend events with PB and PE as the draw card.
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  #388  
Old 04-23-2009, 02:37 AM
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We know because people PM the mod and admin teams to say so.
I find it strange that someone would do this, especially if they have knowledge of something good to counterract the "silly girl" posts that appear about these two. It would be far more useful to a debate to present something positive rather than to run crying to a mod about the bad people saying negative things.
I, for one, would welcome some news about the princesses that puts them in a better light, it would show that they are finally seeing more to life than gadding about.
I hope these pm people read the comments from the British public that appear under the different articles in the tabloids, they are more than a little depressing for people who would like to see the BRF receive the respect they have always had (and earned) before the younger generation started appearing in public with their lifestyle.
I am not saying that this didn´t happen before in past generations, I am sure there were very wild carryings-on, but out of the public eye and the vigilant eyes of photographers. Discretion is what these girls should practise, they know full well that they are being followed and that anything they do that attracts attention will be photographed and appear in the next editions of the tabloids.
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  #389  
Old 04-23-2009, 03:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Menarue View Post
I find it strange that someone would do this, especially if they have knowledge of something good to counterract the "silly girl" posts that appear about these two. It would be far more useful to a debate to present something positive rather than to run crying to a mod about the bad people saying negative things.
I, for one, would welcome some news about the princesses that puts them in a better light, it would show that they are finally seeing more to life than gadding about.
I hope these pm people read the comments from the British public that appear under the different articles in the tabloids, they are more than a little depressing for people who would like to see the BRF receive the respect they have always had (and earned) before the younger generation started appearing in public with their lifestyle.
I am not saying that this didn´t happen before in past generations, I am sure there were very wild carryings-on, but out of the public eye and the vigilant eyes of photographers. Discretion is what these girls should practise, they know full well that they are being followed and that anything they do that attracts attention will be photographed and appear in the next editions of the tabloids.
As most of you may know, I am not a fan of the York girls per se. That said,I do think there does need to be a degree of objectivity in how these girls are viewed. A few points to note, IMO:

1) The girls are still very young, and so one does need to cut them some slack for that. Going out, getting drunk every now and then is all part of growing up, and most young people do that. I certainly did, and am not about to stand to judgement on that. IMO, the problem arises when Bea is seen coming out of Nobu and other top restaurants and clubs with alarming regularity, mid week. This helps foster the image of a spoilt child, and it is then that people start to ask why these girls are not doing more useful things with their lives.

2) I do think it was a missed opportunity for the girls to do something socially useful in their respective gap years. I accept that travel is an important part of ones broader education, but like Wills and Harry, they could have done something constructive as part of their travels. That said, it is still not too late for the girls to start workign with 1-2 charities each - and by that I mean doing some work as opposed to showingup at a charity fundraiser in their gladrags.

3) I think this whole debate about the girls ought to be careful of where they go and how often they go because fo the cost of security is a bit pointless. My view is that it is for the government of the day to decide who gets security cover and who does not, based on a risk assessment carried out by the government, the Police and the Home Office working in consultation with the Palace. If it has been decided that somebody ought to get cover, it is completely pointless for observers and the media to then whinge. You cannot restrict peoples movements just because they now security funded by the tax payers, IMO.

In summary, I have no doubt that the girls can certainly do more to earn the respect of the public, and perhaps exercise some more judgement at times. But in my book, it is still too early to just write them off. That is what the tabloids are doing becuase it helps sell papers, but I do wish we would stop the carte blanche York girls bashing on TRF!
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  #390  
Old 04-23-2009, 04:34 AM
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There we go again, it is not bashing writing about the need for the girls to get their act together - fast, it is constructive criticism and I am fairly certain that some people who will read this will carry the message back to the palace.
It was an ex security officer who said that it was unnecessary to have so much security for minor members of the royal family, but it is said it has been insisted on by their father... that said, if they do really need security then they could co-operate more and try and lead a more conservative and discreet lifestyle.
No one is writing them off, they need to learn, and quickly, that the picture they are showing the world in general is not a good one and they or their parents should have more sense.
Perhaps if their father had to foot the bill for security he would cut down on some of his daughters´ activities.
We can only hope that these girls will give a more favourable direction to their lives, and by this I don´t mean showing up at some charity do, I think they should carry on their studies and do something worthwhile with their lives not become figureheads, that is for more senior members of their family.
BTW someone could always start a Beatrice and Eugenie "gushers thread" if necessary, nothing wrong with that, sensible people with hopes for the BRF could keep away.
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  #391  
Old 04-23-2009, 05:03 AM
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There we go again, it is not bashing writing about the need for the girls to get their act together - fast, it is constructive criticism and I am fairly certain that some people who will read this will carry the message back to the palace.
It was an ex security officer who said that it was unnecessary to have so much security for minor members of the royal family, but it is said it has been insisted on by their father... that said, if they do really need security then they could co-operate more and try and lead a more conservative and discreet lifestyle.
No one is writing them off, they need to learn, and quickly, that the picture they are showing the world in general is not a good one and they or their parents should have more sense.
Perhaps if their father had to foot the bill for security he would cut down on some of his daughters´ activities.
We can only hope that these girls will give a more favourable direction to their lives, and by this I don´t mean showing up at some charity do, I think they should carry on their studies and do something worthwhile with their lives not become figureheads, that is for more senior members of their family.
BTW someone could always start a Beatrice and Eugenie "gushers thread" if necessary, nothing wrong with that, sensible people with hopes for the BRF could keep away.
I actually regard Councillors of State as senior members of the RF and, unless a very long lived Queen (like one who outlives her mother and has her eldest son also live that long) Beatrice will serve as a Councillor of State.

The Councillors of State are the first four in line to the throne who are over 18 so unless William or Harry have a child turn 18 during the present reign Beatrice will be a Councillor of State at some point and it isn't beyond the realms of possiblity that Eugenie will as well. For that not to happen then Charles will have to have 2 grandchildren over 18 during his reign. I hope that he does get to see that happen but remember that neither of his sons are married and it would be over a year from now before either of them could become fathers (and Harry is now not in a steady relationship).

If William married this year and had a child next year the Queen would have to live until 2028 to stop Beatrice becoming a Councillor of State. Yes I know her mother lived that long but how many people actually reach 102. At that point Charles would be 79 and still only have one grandchild aged 18.

It is another reason why Beatrice and Eugenie need to be involved in royal work at some level - they may simply have to carry out the duties of monarch if the monarch is out of the country. Less likely for Eugenie due to her being 5th but very likely for Beatrice.
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  #392  
Old 04-23-2009, 05:18 AM
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I agree, but before they become Councillors of State I think these two girls have quite a distance to go. My fear is that with all the carryings-on by the younger generations that there will be no need for Councillors of State or even the BRF.
I see today an article in one of the tabloids saying how the Queen has downgraded her birthday to a dinner at Prince Edward´s with 16 guests. The idea being to cut costs in these difficult times. Even so there were people in the comments that resented even a small birthday party, I take no notice of this except as a sign of "royal familily fatigue" and quite worrying for those of us that want the monarchy to stay.
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  #393  
Old 04-23-2009, 05:26 AM
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My view is that it is for the government of the day to decide who gets security cover and who does not, based on a risk assessment carried out by the government, the Police and the Home Office working in consultation with the Palace.
All sounds good but in reality it is the senior staff at BP, in consultation with HM and the DoY that make the decision. If Andrew wants security, mummy is not going to cause him distress by telling the PM or the police commissioner to drop the unneccessary protection for his daughters.
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Originally Posted by Menarue View Post
it is constructive criticism and I am fairly certain that some people who will read this will carry the message back to the palace.
I am sure they do on a regular basis but unless the parents are willing to take notice, there seems to be little they can do without causing the tantrum of the century!
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It was an ex security officer who said that it was unnecessary to have so much security for minor members of the royal family, but it is said it has been insisted on by their father...
Some of the royals have already dropped the security for overseas visits and don't have any in the UK.
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BTW someone could always start a Beatrice and Eugenie "gushers thread" if necessary, nothing wrong with that, sensible people with hopes for the BRF could keep away.
Agreed!
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  #394  
Old 04-23-2009, 06:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Menarue View Post


I agree, but before they become Councillors of State I think these two girls have quite a distance to go. My fear is that with all the carryings-on by the younger generations that there will be no need for Councillors of State or even the BRF.
I see today an article in one of the tabloids saying how the Queen has downgraded her birthday to a dinner at Prince Edward´s with 16 guests. The idea being to cut costs in these difficult times. Even so there were people in the comments that resented even a small birthday party, I take no notice of this except as a sign of "royal familily fatigue" and quite worrying for those of us that want the monarchy to stay.

There is no question about them becoming Coucillors of State. If the Queen dies then Beatrice is eligible and it isn't a matter of whether she is good enough she is eligible and if the three ahead of her were all absent from the country at the same time then she would have to do the job.

The criteria is simply the next four in the order of succession over 18 and nothing more - nothing about their behaviour etc.
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  #395  
Old 04-23-2009, 06:16 AM
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There is no question about them becoming Coucillors of State. If the Queen dies then Beatrice is eligible and it isn't a matter of whether she is good enough she is eligible and if the three ahead of her were all absent from the country at the same time then she would have to do the job.

The criteria is simply the next four in the order of succession over 18 and nothing more - nothing about their behaviour etc.
It maybe that Queen Victoria´s genes will suddenly appear, she was said to have been a "genius of common sense". We can only hope.
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  #396  
Old 04-23-2009, 10:11 AM
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I was actually referring to the Marlborough College incident (thankfully there are no pictures) when Eugenie was found drunk and naked on campus grounds.
A bit of factual accuracy would be good here. Eugenie was not found drunk, as for naked the alleged incident was 'frollicking naked on the school playing fields with a group of students' There has never been any confirmation that this actually happened, it was supposed to be end of final year of high school high jinks. But the school made no comment and neither did any students as to whether it actually happened.
Beatrice and Eugenie are condemned far too quickly for preceived bad behaviour. For example, the first lot of photos taken of Beatrice coming out of a nightclub it was claimed that she was drunk. The photos certainly look as if she is, eyes going in different directions ( quite well-known photos) So lots of 'what a disgrace she is' indignant commentary from the condemners of these girls. Later in a very small article it came out that Beatrice was startled by the photographers, eyes going everywhere, but she then walked to her car accompanied by her protection officer and then drove home with the protection officer seated in the passenger seat. Had she been drinking there's no way that the protection officers would have let her drive, she certainly wasn't drunk but got condemned by the critical squad for being a disgrace. A static picture doesn't always tell what one assumes. Especially if one wants to assume the worst.
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but it is said it has been insisted on by their father...
Ah, there's the issue, 'it is said that Andrew insists on fulltime protection for his daughters' Assumptions but no definite proof. All HRHs receive protection from the Royal Protection Squad, including Prince Michael ( and princess) of Kent even though they carry out no official duties. So when P. Michael goes on a business trip to Russia ( to make money for himself) or Pness Michael goes to her Carribean Island to work on her books for a month each year, they do so with 24/7 Police protection. Peter. Zara, Lord Frederik, Lady Ella don't receive police protection as they aren't HRHs. I think that the Wessex children who technically as grandchildren of a monarch as HRHs but are being styled as children of an Earl probably don't receive 24/7 police protection. Andrew doesn't make the rules as to who gets protection, all royal protection was upgraded to 24/7 after the kidnap attempt on Anne in 1974. The minor royals the Kents, Gloucestors, even though they were HRHs received no police protection as late as the early 60's, the security on the royals has been upgraded over the years.
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Some of the royals have already dropped the security for overseas visits and don't have any in the UK.
The report that was in the paper was in relation to the Duke and Duchess of Gloucestor not receiving 24/7 security from the British police on a trip to the US. It said nothing about them not having protection in the UK, Diana chose not to have protection after she separated from Charles but it was against police advice. With the overseas trips of minor royals the host countries are being asked to provide the covering protection so the cost is less for the British police, they don't have to send the teams over to cover. The minor royals aren't left with no protection, it's just not the British who are supplying it.
Beatrice and Eugenie are being condemned for the sins of their parents.
So far both have finished high school with good grades, one is at university the other plans to attend later this year.Beatrice has a steady boyfriend who has a fulltime job, graduated from a good university and who's family is discrete and neither he nor any member of his family has sold any expose to the tabloids. Both support their grandmother at all formal events ( last one being the unveiling of the QM statue) Both are prepared to be involved in charity events, Beatrice recently attended a reception for the Teenage cancer trust ( Hellomagazine covered it) Eugenie on her Gap Year went to a project her mother's charity Children in Crisis in involved in in Poland, she also made a private visit to Auschwitz. ( this was in January and it was a tiny article in the media) Bikini pictures get soo much more coverage! Beatrice has taken on a role with Children in Crisis, no official patronages have been alloted to them but then they are still completing their education. William got his first ones after he graduated from university and Harry after he graduated from Sandhurst.
Both girls are polite to the media, no following in aunt Anne's footsteps here. Both have gone with their father on his business trips, and at the reception for the G20 participants that the Queen gave at Buckingham Palace Beatrice accompanied her father. Neither are rebelling against the royal fold ( as in the past Marina Ogilvy, daughter of Princess Alexandra, nasty story in the tabloids as well as pictures of her being voted 'rear of the year' and wearing pvc plastic pants.) Some of us have been following royals for a while! Beatrice and Eugenie are quiet compared to Princess Margaret in her hey day, even the Duke of Kent in the 1950s.
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  #397  
Old 04-23-2009, 10:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Menarue View Post
It was an ex security officer who said that it was unnecessary to have so much security for minor members of the royal family, but it is said it has been insisted on by their father... that said, if they do really need security then they could co-operate more and try and lead a more conservative and discreet lifestyle.
Am I correct in thinking that you seem to be willing to believe what an ex security officer may be saying to a tabloid versus the judgement of the government and the Royal Household (or Prince Andrew and HM as Sky has suggested) as to the need for security?

I personally don't think they need security, but if it has been decided by people who are in charge, then so be it, is my view.


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Originally Posted by Menarue View Post
No one is writing them off, they need to learn, and quickly, that the picture they are showing the world in general is not a good one and they or their parents should have more sense.
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Originally Posted by Menarue View Post
We can only hope that these girls will give a more favourable direction to their lives, and by this I don´t mean showing up at some charity do, I think they should carry on their studies and do something worthwhile with their lives not become figureheads, that is for more senior members of their family.
Could not agree more!

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Originally Posted by Menarue View Post
BTW someone could always start a Beatrice and Eugenie "gushers thread" if necessary, nothing wrong with that, sensible people with hopes for the BRF could keep away.
If my suggestion of using a little objectivity in viewing facts relating to the York girls as opposed to the carte blanche bashing that seems de rigeur needs to be relegated to a "gushers thread" in your opinion, then we can at best agree to disagree on this point.
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Old 04-23-2009, 10:37 AM
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A bit of factual accuracy would be good here.
Accuracy is always good.
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Beatrice and Eugenie are condemned far too quickly for preceived bad behaviour.
Most people seem to work on the same facts as everyone else on here, not just preconceived ideas.
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For example, the first lot of photos taken of Beatrice coming out of a nightclub it was claimed that she was drunk. The photos certainly look as if she is, eyes going in different directions ( quite well-known photos)
And then we have the reported fact that Beatrice was so drunk she forgot she had a driver waiting and tried to wander off to summon a cab.
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Ah, there's the issue, 'it is said that Andrew insists on fulltime protection for his daughters' Assumptions but no definite proof.
Except for the police officer in charge telling the press!
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Andrew doesn't make the rules as to who gets protection,
According to the PPO involved, he does where his daughters are concerned.
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Beatrice and Eugenie are being condemned for the sins of their parents.
It seems to me, they are being condemned for their own actions, nothing to do with their parents sins, apart from the lack of parental advice they seem to receive or ignore.
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Both have gone with their father on his business trips
No they both got the chance of a tax paid holiday by pretending to be 'in training for royal duties', if either of them are appointed to the same job as Andrew, which is all he could be training them for, we had better invest more in golf clubs.
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Some of us have been following royals for a while!
Indeed, but you are not the only one and to imply that anyone who has a different view to your own must only be a recent watcher, becomes jaded after a while!
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Old 04-23-2009, 10:46 AM
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All sounds good but in reality it is the senior staff at BP, in consultation with HM and the DoY that make the decision. If Andrew wants security, mummy is not going to cause him distress by telling the PM or the police commissioner to drop the unneccessary protection for his daughters.
But "mummy" hardly seems the shrinking violet who can be bullied by her children into getting their selfish ways.
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Old 04-23-2009, 11:02 AM
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HM the Queen was said by her own husband to be an extremely tolerant woman and I don´t think she has been bullied by her children but I am sure as a fond mother she would not want to cause distress to her favourite son. Actually the Queen was bullied once that I can remember but it was by the hysterical public when her ex-daughter-in-law died.
Actually I wish she weren´t so tolerant where her granddaughters are concerned but that is just my opinion.
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