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  #301  
Old 02-04-2009, 05:17 PM
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Some excellent points have been brought up in this discussion.
I hate to see the Queen dragged into B and E s lives. The Queen should not be
be held responsible for seeing that B & E are raised correctly - UNLESS they embarass the Crown which they are close to doing.
Andrew needs to grow up. He is almost 50 now and still seems caught back in his wild days as a bachelor. Look at wonderfully Prince Charles stepped in when Diana died and raised William & Harry.
Fergie is just a mess - she hangs around her Eurotrash friends - she makes a stab at charity work and crows about taking "her girls" to orphanages and such but none of this work seems to stick with B & E. It seems to have stuck with William & Harry!
B & E have two parents who need to lay down the law and get these two young women to straighten out their lives.
Sure, they can have fun like their peers, but in a more subdued and not-so-public way.
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  #302  
Old 02-04-2009, 07:30 PM
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I've never found either girl to be "obnoxious". If anything, Princess Beatrice seems to be very sweet and girlish, although perhaps over-exposed in her evening wear at times.



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Seems like they somehow feel that their HRH status gives them license to be tacky, obnoxious and, how do you say, it - Common.
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  #303  
Old 02-04-2009, 10:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Mermaid1962 View Post
I've never found either girl to be "obnoxious". If anything, Princess Beatrice seems to be very sweet and girlish, although perhaps over-exposed in her evening wear at times.
I was refering to her obnoxious behavior rather than personality. As I don't know her I can not say whether she's obnoxious, sweet or something in between.
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  #304  
Old 02-05-2009, 02:44 AM
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When daughters run wild their parents usually step in but I am afraid it may be too late for that now. As far as their mother is concerned the person who always defended her behaviour was her father, we learn from our parents and he was not exactly a good role model.
The idea that is brought up so often is that they should be doing charity work. Why? If they are not so inclined that is hypocrisy, and I really dislike hypocrites. I think it would be perfectly reasonable to hear about the Princesses fewer times. Joining the family for Christmas, the Trooping of the Colour, the rest of their time they could spend however they pleased but not in the public eye. The ideal occupation for these two girls would be to diligently finish their education and to make the need for security officers unnecessary by keeping a much lower profile.
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  #305  
Old 02-05-2009, 05:06 AM
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We are certainly 99% in agreement, I still think Andrew is partially to blame!
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  #306  
Old 02-05-2009, 05:46 AM
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We are certainly 99% in agreement, I still think Andrew is partially to blame!
Make it 100% as I think that he is to blame too.
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  #307  
Old 02-05-2009, 08:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Jo of Palatine View Post
And then there are aunts Anne and Camilla....
I would love to see the reaction of all the Yorks if Camilla told say, Beatrice, that perhaps she might consider behaving in a certain manner or doing something!!!!!
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  #308  
Old 02-05-2009, 09:10 AM
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I think it's important for the York girls to do charity work - whether they like it or not - because what else are they going to really do in life? Unless the British public abolishes the monarchy and the girls can go out and get jobs (or if they end up just being wealthy celebs that do nothing but shop, go out to eat and party no one will care 'cuz the British taxpayer won't be footing the bill for things like security), there really aren't too many options for royal princesses in the 21st century. Also, while there is still a RF I think it's good PR for this younger generation to actually do something besides party. As I've said before, do something to give back. Otherwise, what's the point, really? But I'm not paying for a royal family; their palaces, planes, trains and Bentleys, security, etc. So in the end, what the York girls do has absolutely no relevence to me. Tho looking in on the whole thing, I think it's more than just a little disresepectful for them to carry on w/out seemingly giving a hoot about how it may look to those struggling British subjects whose ancestors have supported their family for centuries and who are still supporting it. Bad taste.
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  #309  
Old 02-05-2009, 09:21 AM
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Originally Posted by muriel View Post
I would love to see the reaction of all the Yorks if Camilla told say, Beatrice, that perhaps she might consider behaving in a certain manner or doing something!!!!!
Me too! But I think Camilla has all her life behaved very dignified and well-mannered in public - no matter what she did or how she felt in private. She was never caught on a pic with somebody other than her husband kissing her toes and I believe it would be difficult to find a pic showing her with her husband doing something inappropriate in public.

Being a member of a Royal family has a lot to do with representing this family in public, so what we should be talking about is mainly appearances, not character. There have been other princesses who loved to party etc. but at least they haven't done it in broad morning light in their family's capital but used more discreet places. If you want to be notorious, go abroard.
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  #310  
Old 02-05-2009, 09:22 AM
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I am in complete agreement that fault for these girls' behavior lies directly at the feet of their parents--and that would be both Andrew and Sarah. Parents are responsible for setting boundaries and rules that apply to privileges. For example, growing up having a car was a privilege that could be taken away at any moment for bad grades, rudeness to my parents, not helping at home and doing chores, or just being irresponsible in general. Had I parked illegally, left my keys in the car, and then the car was stolen I feel quite certain that my father would have revoked all driving rights! There appears to have been a lack of discipline for the girls, which as you grow up makes it difficult for you to have personal discipline. That is the problem--not discipline or responsibility for choices all around. That's where Diana's family went wrong, that's where Diana went wrong--but you have to hand it to her, even if her own personal life was full of irresponsible behavior, she and Charles taught those boys who they were and the responsibilities they had. Sarah and Andrew, obviously have not.
As for charity work--why not have them do a little? They don't need to become patrons of anything, but they should perhaps accompany Anne somewhere or do some youth or preschool charity work--perhaps volunteering at a local school reading the library to children, or doing some Hospital volunteering, etc..... it wouldn't hurt them--they obviously have time--what with pole dancing and clubbing being such priorities.
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  #311  
Old 02-05-2009, 11:25 AM
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I am in complete agreement that fault for these girls' behavior lies directly at the feet of their parents--and that would be both Andrew and Sarah. Parents are responsible for setting boundaries and rules that apply to privileges.
Could not agree more. The responsibility for bringing the girls up rests squarely on their parents, and nobody else. I don't think that either HM, Anne, Camilla or Sophie have any responsibility in this regard.

As regards their behaviour, I have often argued that it is key for the girls to find the right balance between being young students, and being responsible members of the BRF. Surely they are entitled to have the late nights out (as we all did, at their age) and parties etc, but they need to balance that with some charitable or "worthy" cause.
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  #312  
Old 02-05-2009, 12:58 PM
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Perhaps if they limited the late nights out to weekends they wouldn´t be noticed that much, it is that during the week when most people know they have to go to school or to work the next morning. Also they could drop the expensive security which seems to be the main issue.
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  #313  
Old 02-05-2009, 06:17 PM
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I also wonder if British people (I'm like Bella and have no taxpayer's interest in what these girls do) would be less critical of Beatrice and Eugenie if they didn't have costly security protection? That does seem to be the main issue. I don't think Prince Andrew would ever allow their bodyguards to be taken away, though--that's just my feeling.
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  #314  
Old 02-05-2009, 07:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Menarue View Post
The idea that is brought up so often is that they should be doing charity work. Why? If they are not so inclined that is hypocrisy, and I really dislike hypocrites. I think it would be perfectly reasonable to hear about the Princesses fewer times. Joining the family for Christmas, the Trooping of the Colour, the rest of their time they could spend however they pleased but not in the public eye. The ideal occupation for these two girls would be to diligently finish their education and to make the need for security officers unnecessary by keeping a much lower profile.
That's what I think too. I understand that the royal family, as a group, mainly exists for appearances. I tend to be more interested in a few of them as people and I forget that. As members of the royal family, Beatrice and Eugenie do seem to have an obligation to "appear" dutiful and useful as representatives of their country, but I personally like Menarue's argument that it rings faintly false, if not hypocritical, for the girls to do charity work only for the sake of their reputations and not out of any genuine interest.

But of course, anyone who does anything for the sake of appearances can be accused not only of hypocrisy, but uselessness. If the royal family only exists to make public appearances and do PR duties, at a huge cost to the taxpayer, should it exist?

I think I'll stop there because that kind of argument probably doesn't belong on a British royalty forum. I used to defend the monarchy because I was interested in the people in the British royal family, and finally I had to admit that I wasn't actually a monarchist. Which means I probably don't belong on a royalty forum at all...

Yet I'm interested in the people in the royal family. I feel sorry for Beatrice and Eugenie (and William and Harry) because I think they're pulled in two directions and as a result can't go far in either one. They are asked to be useful and told not to squander their money or appear entitled--and yet at the same time they're constantly reminded that they can't go out and get an ordinary job like most people who want to be "useful," and as much as they're forbidden from flaunting their royal status, they're also asked to remember their position, to behave better than their peers, to set a good example. I think it's kind of fascinating to watch because deep down, everyone knows that there is no essential difference between royals and commoners or the titled and untitled, but there seems to be such a strong human desire to believe otherwise. Americans seem to see every member of the Kennedy family as a cut above the common people, and I think even Canadians do the same with the Trudeaus. I think it's human nature to confer some kind of special status on a family or dynasty--but in some ways I always feel like it makes life twice as difficult for the younger royals, like Beatrice and Eugenie.

If Beatrice and Eugenie should act more like royals and their behaviour reflects badly on the royal family, then I think it is Prince Andrew and the Queen's responsibility to place some limits on their activities. I have no problem with most of their behaviour, but then I always forget that I'm supposed to be judging Beatrice and Eugenie as members of the royal family, not as ordinary eighteen and twenty year-old young women.
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  #315  
Old 02-05-2009, 08:09 PM
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As members of the royal family, Beatrice and Eugenie do seem to have an obligation to "appear" dutiful and useful as representatives of their country, but I personally like Menarue's argument that it rings faintly false, if not hypocritical, for the girls to do charity work only for the sake of their reputations and not out of any genuine interest.
I would agree if the charity work done by the royal family was only a way to keep up reputations and appearances, but I don't think that's the case at all. The royals need to be seen out at charity appearances because having them there gets the name and the cause of the charity out in the public. Newspapers will pick up a story about a princess going and visiting a charity when they might not otherwise, and the same goes for people paying attention to the story.

And since drawing attention to these charitable causes is, in effect, a way to benefit the British nation as a whole, it makes sense that the girls should be doing them. The taxpayers are funding their security, and as they are both adults now, I think that the argument that they should "pay back" Britons by doing charity work is a fair one.

All of this may be moot, though, as I believe I remember both girls expressing interest in working for charitable causes in past interviews, so they very well may have a personal interest in such work.
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  #316  
Old 02-05-2009, 08:11 PM
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This Canadian doesn't.

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Americans seem to see every member of the Kennedy family as a cut above the common people, and I think even Canadians do the same with the Trudeaus.
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  #317  
Old 02-05-2009, 11:09 PM
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Americans seem to see every member of the Kennedy family as a cut above the common people,
Are you kidding? Not this American.
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  #318  
Old 02-05-2009, 11:18 PM
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Yes, PB and PE should set an example, wouldn't it be lov-er-ly if they were just a little more lady-like.
After reading all those posts, and thank you all for your differing opinions, maybe its too late for the York princesses, oh well, 'you either have or you haven't got - class'
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  #319  
Old 02-05-2009, 11:37 PM
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After reading all those posts, and thank you all for your differing opinions, maybe its too late for the York princesses, oh well, 'you either have or you haven't got - class'
The girls do know how to behave at certain occassions...someone needs to warn these girls about how they are being portrayed in the press!I wonder what their grandmother,the Queen thinks...
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  #320  
Old 02-05-2009, 11:38 PM
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Very well said, ada. However you failed to include the York princesse's mother in your comment! It may be abit late for Sarah but one can always have hope for Beatrice and Eugenie.
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