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  #41  
Old 07-20-2011, 08:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Charlotte1 View Post
Sarah was never given money to buy a house or land for HERSELF. The divorce settlement stipulated that the house that would be bought would be put in Beatrice's and Eugenie's names. One was selected by the royal advisors, it met all the security requirements. But Sarah didn't end up taking it on as she couldn't afford to run it. It needed a large staff, so she rented for a few years, then moved back to Sunninghill. Also part of her divorce settlement she signed over her share of Sunninghill (which was in both names) to Andrew. He sold it a few years ago for a huge profit which is the source of a great deal of his current wealth. Sarah got nothing from that sale.
She gave half her divorce settlement to her mother as the ranch in Argentina was heavily in debt after Hector Barrantes's death. Sarah owns a share of the ranch, it's lived in and farmed by the Barrantes sons.

Sarah's main problem is that she is generous and is not practical when it comes to money. When her daughters were young, Andrew paid the school fees, but Sarah paid everything else. She was earning large sums of money and was generous with it, to the extent that a couple of years she even paid for Andrew's staff Christmas parties. (Before Sunninghill was sold and Andrew had less money!) It's not surprising that now her daughters and Andrew are prepared to help her out. Whether or not she's going to acquire a more practical approach to money, we'll have to see.
Sarah was given 350,000 to spend as she saw fit, so the first of your bolded statements is not correct.

Source, please, for your second bolded statement. As an aside, at the time that she died, Sarah's mother was once again in such financial straits that even the electricity at that ranch was turned off. The ranch's operations were continued after an influx of cash from the sale of part of the ranch to Kerry Packer. I do wonder if Sarah ever really gave that money to her mother.

With regard to your third bolded statement, Sarah earned and spent a tremendous amount of money in the ten year period between her near-bankruptcies; it was estimated by the Times as 22 million. That is not merely an inability to be "practical." It's egregious overspending. That would be her problem. As to her generosity, we have only unsourced statements as to that. She was certainly generous with other people's money and resources, such as the Queen's mail (her privileges were finally revoked on free postage due to her abuse of them.)

Her divorce settlement - which is the topic of this thread - was thoroughly analyzed earlier and was found to be far more than ample for an upper-middle-class lifestyle, in London. For whatever reason, that's not what Sarah wanted. If she is unable to leave within the generous means provided to her to do so, then the endless excuses readily coughed up for her profligacy does no one any credit, or good.
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  #42  
Old 07-20-2011, 08:59 AM
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It actually makes things even worse. She was given money to buy a house for her girls who she is such a great mother of. There was one house suggested but she turned it down due to not being able to afford the upkeep. Yet she went on to rent a couple of houses where security wasn't an issue and she had a lot of help! Sarah could off found a house to buy that suited the security needs she seemed to have no trouble renting any and paying for help. Giving her mother the money that was supposed to provide for her own daughters future does not make her look like a good mother. The place in Argentina had a lot of money problems it seems because some of the money she made from the Hello photo spread when the girls were young was also used to help her mother pay debts for the Argentina property. I think Sarahs track record shows she only thinks of the moment and not of what she would need in the future. The sunninghill sale is probably why Andrew is able to help her with her debts etc it doesn't hurt him too at the moment. But his own lifestyle is pretty expensive and I doubt he will have much left if he continues to pay her bills and his own. Even when Sarah had a huge income she didn't invest in her own property she moved back in with Andrew so the whole she couldn't afford to buy a house and maintain it just doesn't add up.
Very interesting point - the bolded portion, which represents the contrast yet again between Sarah's words and her actions.

Had she moved into her home in Argentina after her mother's death, she certainly would have had security concerns covered (it's a very long drive from the nearest major airport - 7 hours, I believe) and her more than generous settlement (ample for a London life) would have been tremendous wealth there. In fact, that settlement would have enabled her to buy out her sister, if she chose. Plus, it would give her continued exposure to the fabulous weath of the polo set, with that area being the center of part of the season.
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  #43  
Old 07-20-2011, 11:09 AM
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While I agree with some of the opinions expressed by NaP and Meadow in previous posts, Sarah hasn't been a prefect mother and has made mistakes (namely causing embrassesment to her children) but to be fair I would also add that no one can doubt Sarah loves her children dearly, and they know that, and surely that's the most important thing. Her daughters think she is a good mother and Andrew thinks she is a good mother to his children (I remember him saying so in a statement a few year back). That is surely worth something. It's so interesting that some people think Sarah is a bad mother, while at the same time she is also accused of being too close to the girls.

Nap and Meadow, please don't take any offence. I don't in any way wish to disrespect your opinions. Seeing things from slightly different angles is what makes these types of forums interesting.
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  #44  
Old 07-20-2011, 12:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Irish Eyes View Post
While I agree with some of the opinions expressed by NaP and Meadow in previous posts, Sarah hasn't been a prefect mother and has made mistakes (namely causing embrassesment to her children) but to be fair I would also add that no one can doubt Sarah loves her children dearly, and they know that, and surely that's the most important thing. Her daughters think she is a good mother and Andrew thinks she is a good mother to his children (I remember him saying so in a statement a few year back). That is surely worth something. It's so interesting that some people think Sarah is a bad mother, while at the same time she is also accused of being too close to the girls.

Nap and Meadow, please don't take any offence. I don't in any way wish to disrespect your opinions. Seeing things from slightly different angles is what makes these types of forums interesting.
Not a bit, Irish! I love reading your posts, which are always well-thought-out. Please know that I feel the same,that I hope that anything that I write is not intended as a "strike" against you.

I like seeing you on the board!
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  #45  
Old 07-20-2011, 12:15 PM
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Although Sarah's divorce settlement seemed less than Diana's, the word in my circle at the time was that Diana's took account both (1) That Charles' means were greater than Andrew (2) That Diana was still to be counted as part of the Royal Family (i.e. would be receiving invitations to certain 'Royal' /'State' Occasions (3) That she was still going to be carrying out a reasonable amount of Charitable engagements and therefore still needed an office and a staff prescence which she would have to finance and (4) An instruction from the Queen that Diana should be well-provided for as much was emerging which implied that Charles had never really loved her from the start, preferring Mrs PB, and in effect had used Diana as an 'heir and a spare' factory before returning to his mistress. [I seem to remember that Sarah Bradford's authorised biography even quotes some of the affectionate correspondence from Prince Philip, from which you don't have to do much reading-between-the-lines to infer that he and HM were disappointed in the conduct of Charles]
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  #46  
Old 07-20-2011, 02:05 PM
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Originally Posted by NotAPretender View Post
Not a bit, Irish! I love reading your posts, which are always well-thought-out. Please know that I feel the same,that I hope that anything that I write is not intended as a "strike" against you.

I like seeing you on the board!
The you so very much NaP for your kind words, they are very much appreciated. Likewise I also really enjoy reading and look forward to your thoughts and opinions. Keep it up.
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  #47  
Old 07-20-2011, 02:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Diarist View Post
Although Sarah's divorce settlement seemed less than Diana's, the word in my circle at the time was that Diana's took account both (1) That Charles' means were greater than Andrew (2) That Diana was still to be counted as part of the Royal Family (i.e. would be receiving invitations to certain 'Royal' /'State' Occasions (3) That she was still going to be carrying out a reasonable amount of Charitable engagements and therefore still needed an office and a staff prescence which she would have to finance and (4) An instruction from the Queen that Diana should be well-provided for as much was emerging which implied that Charles had never really loved her from the start, preferring Mrs PB, and in effect had used Diana as an 'heir and a spare' factory before returning to his mistress.
That, plus Diana was banned from making a living. Diana was not allowed to engage in any commerical activity that resulted in personal profits. Fergie was able to make a living and end up making millions more than Diana was awarded at the time of her settlement.
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  #48  
Old 07-20-2011, 09:13 PM
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That's perfectly fine Irish. I think Sarah loves them dearly but you can love your children and not be a great example is what I was trying to say. Sarah doesn't seem to ever think ahead even sadly when the girls are involved. I think always having Andrew so close and knowing she and the girls always had a home with him she didn't feel she needed to supply them with a house herself. Sarah is like a kid in a candy store she eats all she can, gets ill then thinks of an excuse as too why she is sick. Not wanting to take responsibility for her own actions. I never relised how much money Sarah has gone through and she has so little to show for it. The clothes, jewelry, vacations are all great but you can't live in them. Diana's divorce was different because of Charles's wealth and I'm sure that irked Sarah. I remember reading about the Queen and Prince Phillip too in a way they were right. Sarah seems to believe she needs to live this very lavish lifestyle with no thought of the money needed. I don't see her getting any better and she needs to stop whining about her divorce settlement in fact someone should ask her why she didn't invest her money better when she was rolling in it! It's very hard to feel sorry for someone who has had so much and doesn't seem to appreciate it.
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  #49  
Old 07-20-2011, 10:56 PM
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The main thing with Sarah is there's no such beast as a "do over". Its getting to the point where she's going to cash in her reality check and finds out it bounces. I really doubt that she'll ever be a totally independent woman in her own right and in my book, that's the best example any mother could set for her daughters (and sons).

She had it, she blew it and nothing is ever going to change that. The sad thing is making all this public as a "victim" or "addict" or even just hoping by some miracle Oprah and Dr. Phil and whomever else can do a magic wand trick and make things right is just so far from reality its pathetic. She's portraying herself to the point now that she's unmarketable for anything now except for tabloid fodder.

The divorce settlement happened as it did and is now ancient history.
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  #50  
Old 07-21-2011, 01:32 AM
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Diana's divorce was different because of Charles's wealth and I'm sure that irked Sarah.
Someone should have told Sarah that life isn't fair and Sarah ahd more of a life of her own when she married Andrew. Diana was a kid basically and frankly she didn't have any real jobs to support herself and she also didn't have the same chacne at living her own life like Sarah did.
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  #51  
Old 07-21-2011, 01:49 AM
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I personally believ that it was not the spending on herself that brought Sarah down but the cost of supporting her "court" - just imagine how much in salary and social costs, travel costs one person costs when you take this person constantly with you. And Sarah had so many people as staff. If you are not superrich or owning a business where those people actually generate more than they cost you, then this works. But not for a paerson like Sarah who actually did not really need these people apart from wanting to be surrounded by them, feel loved, cherished and the boss.
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  #52  
Old 07-21-2011, 02:58 AM
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The people she paid to be with her were doing work for her so she was indeed spending it on herself in my view. A chef, gardner, maids, a couple of personal assistants etc were all there to do the things she felt were beneath her and to give her prestige. Sarah had 12 staff before the last fall and no house to call her own! They gave her self importance and an ego boost Sarah kept them on even when she couldn't pay them that isn't love! You are right it is what caused some of her problems but her spending on clothes, vacations and things for herself was right up there. I'm sure I read somewhere about her excess luggage being some huge amount of money and she always did it, it ran into thousands of pounds. I also read she allegedly spent hundreds of thousands of dollars on designer clothes because she didn't send them back if she didn't like them simply because she was too lazy too. No one needs that many clothes and her closets must be bursting. Maybe she should try donating some or selling ones she hasn't worn. Sadly her lack of dress sense precedes her although I don't think she dresses as badly as she once did. Mostly because she wears black a lot nowadays. Sarah just wastes money she seems to feel she should have the best of everything even when she is well aware she doesn't have the funds. It's funny I never see her around friends it is always the girls. I feel sorry for her if she has lost them all along the way but understand what it is like when you try to help someone and they continue down the same path. She does still go to some events but always with the girls it actually stopped looking sweet and more sad lately. I doubt she is getting the invitations but the girls are and take her along. I really hope we see a change soon because so far she has done nothing different. Sarah seems to be regretting the divorce but I don't see as there being any other option at the time. Sarah is the one who cheated, she was bored and didn't want to do any more engagements she loved the lifestyle but not the duty and there was the massive debt. Now she seems to think she could do it but I think if she started making her own money again and not needing help from Andrew that would change pretty fast. Right now she gets to live in a great house not pay rent and Andrew looks after her up to a point it seems. Some of the things that got her in trouble was for a chef and expenses she had run up at Royal Lodge. So Andrew must have some limits where Sarah and her spending is concerned. In the end Sarah is just bad with money and taking responsibility for her own mistakes. I think we will hear more about this in the future simply because I don't think she has learnt any real lessons!
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  #53  
Old 07-21-2011, 04:18 AM
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I couldn't help but contrast the 'seaside bucket-and-spade- beach holiday' in Portugal presently being undertaken by the Edward and Sophie [see their current affairs thread] with the jet set revels that Sarah seems to think she is entitled to.

I am afraid that a divorce settlement of whatever magnitude would never have been enough to satsify Sarah - she seems to spend and spend regardless of her means. I still think that when the 200,000 or perhaps only $200,000 from her latest Oprah venture is spent, Sarah will be in serious financial trouble again because I don't think that her present commercial ventures are going to produce sufficient return for her - the 'Sarah Brand' IMHO now appears to be tainted beyond recovery - it is not just the matter of her perceived faults - she is just now 'yesterday's news' apparently. Perhaps this is also something to do with the fact that the eyes of the world are now on 'Generation Kate'?
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  #54  
Old 07-21-2011, 04:36 AM
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I am afraid that a divorce settlement of whatever magnitude would never have been enough to satsify Sarah - she seems to spend and spend regardless of her means.
I think Sarah is on the verge of complete self destruction; there's soemthing taking her toward that route and frankly I think the money is the thing that has been keeping her from the final act. It's like she's on the verge of ending up dead. Like some sort of psychological bleeding and the money is flowing out instead of blood. I hope to God she gets help and gets something substantial.
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  #55  
Old 07-21-2011, 05:37 AM
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What you say makes good sense and is entirely logical..........Except that the usual practice of the Royal Household is to 'do nothing' and very often just let things coast. My personal opinion [and it is just that - it is based on nothing else] is that Sarah has such a strong sense of entitlement that she just cannot see that she has a problem. I have not watched Oprah but I get the impression from reading people's views here that Sarah was not really interesting in 'finding herself' per se but just needed the series to get some money. I may be wrong.

The only thing that I think might encourage the Royal Family to take control of the problem is the fact that it is Diamond Jubilee year next year, and I think that the Royal Household won't want to leave a potential loose cannon like Sarah still in the public eye. But what can they do to make her retain a low profile? We don't have people sent to the Tower any more!!
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Old 07-21-2011, 05:47 AM
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That's perfectly fine Irish. I think Sarah loves them dearly but you can love your children and not be a great example is what I was trying to say. Sarah doesn't seem to ever think ahead even sadly when the girls are involved. I think always having Andrew so close and knowing she and the girls always had a home with him she didn't feel she needed to supply them with a house herself. It's very hard to feel sorry for someone who has had so much and doesn't seem to appreciate it.
Oh I follow you now Meadow, sorry I misinterpreted you slightly earlier.
I sincerely hope that after all the support they have given her since last May that she repays them by changing some of her behaviour.
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Old 07-21-2011, 07:07 AM
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What you say makes good sense and is entirely logical..........Except that the usual practice of the Royal Household is to 'do nothing' and very often just let things coast. My personal opinion [and it is just that - it is based on nothing else] is that Sarah has such a strong sense of entitlement that she just cannot see that she has a problem. I have not watched Oprah but I get the impression from reading people's views here that Sarah was not really interesting in 'finding herself' per se but just needed the series to get some money. I may be wrong.

The only thing that I think might encourage the Royal Family to take control of the problem is the fact that it is Diamond Jubilee year next year, and I think that the Royal Household won't want to leave a potential loose cannon like Sarah still in the public eye. But what can they do to make her retain a low profile? We don't have people sent to the Tower any more!!

Diarist, at the risk of opening a can of worms I just wonder if the Royal household would ever consider reaching out in some way to Sarah?
Now I'm not suggesting Andrew remarry her, have her back in the heart of the family and make sure she doesn't go to the ladies without someones permission (as if, and anyway I don't think Andrew is even attracted to YES ladies). I just think at times if Sarah didn't feel like such an outcast and leper she might behave a bit differently. The fact that she probably feels she could act like Mother Teresa, but it still wouldn't make any difference I think brings out the rebellious side in her. William and Catherine's wedding was one thing, but next year I assume there are going to be lots of events marking and celebrating the Queen Jubilee and for example if Sarah knew at the start of the year that she would get to be involved by being included on some guest list, somewhere, sometime would she mind her P's and Q's a bit better. I know that is like rewarding good behaviour but if she behaves like a child they might get a result by treating her like one? It's just they have tried acting as if she doesn't exist and it hasn't worked so is it time for a Plan B?

Please everybody we all know Sarah's past, mistakes and scandals and why things are the way they are so lets not rehash all that.
It's about the Queen's Jubliee year and avoiding further scandal.
These are only by own musings, some of which I don't even know if I agree with myself.
Sorry I know I've gone off topic.
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Old 07-21-2011, 08:18 AM
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What happened with Sarah when the last big celebration with the Queen happened? Or was it when things were really good and she was in the States mostly then? I think you have a good idea, invite her to a couple of things but she can't talk about them. Not sure how that would work though. Part of the reason she has become a bit of a has been is because now we have Kate and Sarah has admitted she has never met her which tends to end any conversation really fast. If she was involved she would need to be kept away from the family and I'm not so sure Sarah would go for that. Maybe she could go off to the States again or they will continue ignoring her and giving her enough rope to hang herself? It's a good question....I will ponder some more.
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Old 07-21-2011, 01:10 PM
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What happened with Sarah when the last big celebration with the Queen happened? Or was it when things were really good and she was in the States mostly then? I think you have a good idea, invite her to a couple of things but she can't talk about them. Not sure how that would work though. Part of the reason she has become a bit of a has been is because now we have Kate and Sarah has admitted she has never met her which tends to end any conversation really fast. If she was involved she would need to be kept away from the family and I'm not so sure Sarah would go for that. Maybe she could go off to the States again or they will continue ignoring her and giving her enough rope to hang herself? It's a good question....I will ponder some more.
It's an interesting question. I think the way the royal family sees it, if they invite Sarah to royal events, then Sarah will promptly go to the media and talk about them, and the public-at-large will see Sarah as a quasi-royal again because she gets invited to royal events...thereby furthering Sarah's career living off her royal connections. On the other hand, if the royal family ignores Sarah, she just goes to every media outlet crying that she feels left out. The royal family can't win, because Sarah wants to have her cake and eat it.

You make an interesting point, Irish Eyes - that Sarah feels she has nothing to lose anyway, so she acts "rebelliously." I think it might be true, and that her self-worth really is very low. She thinks "I'm not a good person anyway, so why bother putting on an act?"

I think that it's best if the royal family continues to ignore Sarah, though - or else gives her a very clear choice: in, or out. If she's "in" the royal family, no more interviews, no more media appearances, no books, no publicity. If she's "out", then no invites to royal events. Otherwise Sarah will continue to try to have the best of both worlds, and damage the royal family in the process.
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Old 07-21-2011, 03:20 PM
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When was Sarah's last event where the BRF were in attendance? When Andrew became a Knight of the Garter? Other than that, and Diana's funeral, I can't think of another occasion since the divorce.
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